Guild Wars 2

I would really like Anet to address/change a problem in wvw which is growing worse and is used solely to hurt players.

Squads/cmdrs continue to use closed/no invite feature to exclude players from non-full squads for no reason.

I want to be clear about my complaint.

1. I love GW/wvw and am vet wvwer/gwer.

2. Im experienced good player; when motivated, can be exceptionally good player.

3. Don’t want cmdr tag, don’t want to lead, don’t have money for it.

4. Squads I am complaining about are:
A) partially full, usually 20-40;
B) not on guild runs or “training runs” (w/e that is) or “dual guild” runs (disingenuously explained as 2 guilds on training run, lol);
C) 1 squad/cmdr on a map;
D) Usually prime time, monopolizing map for >1 hr.; sometimes 4-5 hrs / nite multi days;
E) Squads w/ same players w/ control

5. I am not disputing a cmdr’s right to exclude people – they have that right. Whether they should exercise that right to exclude people for no good reason is the issue and whether people should support these types of cmdrs/squads and whether anet should do something about abuses is the issue.

6. Don’t want to roam/havoc/solo – have zerg armor/boosters/food/weapons.

7. I mean this (believe it or not I don’t care) – I dont care a fig about bags.

8. Every single reason ever given to justify squad exclusion as above are illogical and do not hold up. If its just that I am hated, that’s bullying, and u will hate me whether I’m in squad or not – and it hurts squad & players when players r excluded from squad who want to join.

9. TS should not be an exclusionary tool/excuse to ban people from squad for hours – especially if people can’t join TS for w/e reason (I’m deaf).

10. It hurts squad/server/players when ppl r forced to run alongside squad – they r not as effective and neither is squad – heals indiscriminate/untimely, buffs/rezes erratic, etc. Squad does better when I’m in it rather than forced to run beside it.

11. I paid the same as everyone else.

Pls Anet monitor this situation and consider a fix. I have seen/heard (via typing) so many sickening stories of abuse of players re: entry deny/kick in partially full squads for purely abusive/bullying reasons.

You can consider changing servers then.

I mean this is a community problem as you have identified. Opening a dialogue and including the developers isn’t an unfair request. But you have to realize the cause and solution has to come from the community. I will never advocate for the devs to get involved in anything other than extreme cases where people are attacked outside of the game.

If you play oceanic time, or wakeup early, you can play with us on Ebay for example on the NA servers. I textmand alot, and whether I’m in ts or not I always outline my plan via the symbols/markers +text if needed, while providing answers to any questions/whatever via /p or /squad….anyone not IN /p or /squad is not entitled to an answer though, so they may or may not get one. I don’t kick people from squad unless they are offline, and even then I would ideally move them to a separate subgroup and only kick them when we are on break. It is rather nerve wracking when people on the map start getting kicked from squad for whatever reason, regardless of how useful u are being.

Priorities and flexibility differs between tiers though, I would assume you are currently playing on a busier/higher tiered server. So your issues will be much more common than in the lower tiers. More people = more chaos, larger organized groups = more discrimination. Just how it is.

That’s all I can offer, gl. Hopefully some1 else can offer something.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

9. TS should not be an exclusionary tool/excuse to ban people from squad for hours – especially if people can’t join TS for w/e reason (I’m deaf).

Wait is that what it all comes down to?

Just say ok in chat and join TS anyway.

It’s not like the commander will notice any difference.

I am not disputing a cmdr’s right to exclude people – they have that right. Whether they should exercise that right to bully people is the issue and whether people should support these types of cmdrs/squads and whether anet should do something about abuses is the issue.

if you think you can do a better job or someone else can do a better job, tag up and people will follow. no one follow a weak commander, that is just the fact. you are not forced to join a tag nor do u need to, no one forced the other player to join any tag, nothing prevent there for being tagging competition to see which tag can attract people to them.

and since you do not dispute the commander right, then if he demand TS, then you should obey. even if you can’t hear, there is nothing stopping you from login. it is pointless I know, but the point is you made an afford or you can choose not to. what you describe is simply not abuse, it is manners.

think about it yourself, why is there only 1 tag? why doesn’t people want to tag up if they agree with you that the tag is abusive and bad to follow. what is really sad is so many commander try so hard to carry the server yet they are insulted, disrespected, and implied to be abusive. they didn’t order you to follow them, they are doing a service and it isn’t cheap being a tag. you should know this, afterall you express how u refuse to get one, what make you assume other like to spend that money just so u can complain about them.

pls reflect.

Sometimes people won’t want to play with you. You’ll either have to adapt or find a friendlier bunch of people to play with.

It’s really not an Anet problem.

We have never required anyone to be in TS. And in your case it won’t help. The only reasons my Guild would not let you in would be the following: 1. We are full. 2. You have been part of our squad before and all you ever do is squirrel and not follow the tag. 3. You contradict the commander. Those are the only reasons I can think of off the top of my head.

We have maybe 2-3 people in our guild that never use coms for w/e reason and they do just fine for the most part. I think maybe you are trying to follow guilds that require coms and such. You may just be trying to follow the wrong people is all.

I’m on TC and we see some groups that refuse you if you can’t join voice. I understand the reasons, and when the commander has that requirement I just do something else.
I’m usually scouting/refreshing siege/responding to callouts/trebbing even if in raid, so no big deal.

Voice is fast and efficient and allows combat while talking.

This is not an option for everyone. Personally, I have a toddler and due to said toddler do not have a headset anymore (and can’t afford a new one). So, any voice chat for me has to be speakers with no mic. Most voice chats are not toddler friendly (they are sponges and will repeat everything they hear) and at night, since she is a light sleeper, it still doesn’t work. The chair making a creaking sound wakes her, and then she is less than pleasant.

You can always just follow the tag without being in raid. Just be aware of your surroundings.

Pls see Nos. 3 & 5.

Cant afford to switch servers – don’t think this is an effective answer to the problem.

I think Anet should get involved cuz its not just bad manners, its abusive and exclusionary and actually making it so players cant play in wvw squads for hours/days on end.

I have many reasons for not being able to join TS (not just that I am deaf.) as do many others.

TS is not noted as a requirement to play in squad in wvw, and playing in squad is advertised content for which I paid.

I am not just talking about TS requirement either.

I have heard from players of players in TS abusing people and ganging up on them. I have heard people in TS making fun of players and excluding them just because they don’t like them.

I don’t care if people don’t like me. They won’t like me whether I am in squad or out. Its whether exclusionary practices are being used to bully players and ruin their game experience and more importantly, preclude them from content. This is something Anet needs to look into.

I have seen people in squad type to exclude people from squad. They do this because the people who wish to join are already in TS, so they type it instead. And the people cant get in, and they are excluded because people in squad simply don’t like them. That makes no sense and its bullying. You don’t have to like the people in squad. It hurts the squad/server/players/all when people are booted/not invited for no legitimate reason except to be mean.

I have seen people say and lol about this: Give me gold and we will let u in squad. This behavior should not be tolerated.

I have heard from many people who left squads or TS because of abuse of players.

I’m sorry, but I think bullying behavior should not be condoned by anyone, and it is within Anet’s ability and arguably their duty to prevent player abuse when the community can no longer police itself.

Good manners indeed.

This is a narrow issue/situation that should be curbed by everyone, not defended.

Would be nice if you could setup your own Squad Tag to only show to Guild Members.

And yet what you said in the OP was “I am not disputing a cmdr’s right to exclude people”.

You seem to be disputing that. You are pretty much correct in everything but it’s not Anets job to enforce player interactions and make them behave by some higher moral standard and kindness, unless it’s against the terms of service. Kicking someone out of their squad is not. Saying nope when people want to join isnt either. It doesnt matter if its because they dont like you, your class or that you’re not TS. Unless they are abusive in chat (which you can easily report using the ingame tool), there is nothing for Anet do here. Players are people, and people are generally kitten. That’s just life.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

3. Don’t want cmdr tag, don’t want to lead, don’t have money for it.

11. I paid the same as everyone else.

I would just like to point out that these two points are contradictory.

It is a difficult scenario. As time goes on, inner circles get formed and exclusion become natural. And unfortunately, given the the power creep of hot highlighting build wars, it has proven more efficient to be exclusive . And even between players that are superior individually are at a disadvantage when not in comms.

I also do feel that guilds run in their own because…. It is a guild run.

But, thete is also much that is lost, when groups get too insular. Especially when this game has been out for so long and vets grow tired of repeating the same kitten that they get a bit neophobic. It also results in stagnation as methods bwcome more ingrained

And certainly on my end, while I do make concessions for the greater good (i don’t run off meta in guild runs) I defintely have some strong opinions on what works and thise disagreements have caused quite a problem so I do have quite an appreciation for people willing to resolve diffrences.

Oh, btw it is quite easy to note the quality if someone’s zerg ability as zerging is fairly straightforward. In general if you don’t suck and you don’t have a terrible personality you will stand out and as a result I am usually very skeptical of the “vet player being oppressed” . Also, vet doesn’t mean you are any good either… I juat think it won’t be hard to get a group if you are indispensable in some from or manner. Unless every griup is really that blind.

In the end this is a player issue and from 5 years of reading these forums, it is something they can’t fix, nor would you want them to.

If guilds/groups want to run closed squads so that their drivers and coordinate parties and rotations verbally, more the power to them. Its unfortunate that you’re deaf and if you explain your situation in game they may make an exception. That said they’re not forced to. If they don’t either run along side or do something else. Roam. Find another tag. Something.

~ Kovu

edit- I do agree with many of your other points.

I don’t think they should allow private “invite only” squads in wvw. Granted that does penalize guilds who want to do GvG activities, but I think they should already have their own game mode at this point since its called “Guild Wars.” Either way, I don’t think wvw should allow private tags, or the ability to kick people who want to join it.

I say the commander has the absolute right to run his/her squad the way they see fit. If you do not like it then just move on. I get your argument but Anet will not get involved in this. That is just the way it is, and will most likely never change. Anet will not tell people how they have to play the game as long as their rules are not being broken.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Cant afford to switch servers – don’t think this is an effective answer to the problem.

Switching servers absolutely is an effective answer to this problem. As others have said, this sounds like a social issue rather than a technology issue for devs to solve and I suspect that you have acquired a certain kind of reputation on your current server that can only be gotten rid of by a fresh start somewhere else.

Find a deaf-friendly WvW guild on another server that doesn’t require you to be on TS. You can always find players and guilds willing to help with transfer costs and I bet we could even start up a collection as a WvW community to help you with that cost, assuming you are able to find a server/guild willing to take you in.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I don’t think they should allow private “invite only” squads in wvw. Granted that does penalize guilds who want to do GvG activities, but I think they should already have their own game mode at this point since its called “Guild Wars.” Either way, I don’t think wvw should allow private tags, or the ability to kick people who want to join it.

Then guilds will run without a squad, like we did before we even had squads. Your argument is pointless as you cant stop this. Anet have themselves drawn the line at hiding the tag when using the squad function, but they wont dictate how people play.

ArchonWing.9480:

It is a difficult scenario. As time goes on, inner circles get formed and exclusion become natural. And unfortunately, given the the power creep of hot highlighting build wars, it has proven more efficient to be exclusive . And even between players that are superior individually are at a disadvantage when not in comms.

I also do feel that guilds run in their own because…. It is a guild run.

But, thete is also much that is lost, when groups get too insular. Especially when this game has been out for so long and vets grow tired of repeating the same kitten that they get a bit neophobic. It also results in stagnation as methods bwcome more ingrained

And certainly on my end, while I do make concessions for the greater good (i don’t run off meta in guild runs) I defintely have some strong opinions on what works and thise disagreements have caused quite a problem so I do have quite an appreciation for people willing to resolve diffrences.

Oh, btw it is quite easy to note the quality if someone’s zerg ability as zerging is fairly straightforward. In general if you don’t suck and you don’t have a terrible personality you will stand out and as a result I am usually very skeptical of the “vet player being oppressed” . Also, vet doesn’t mean you are any good either… I juat think it won’t be hard to get a group if you are indispensable in some from or manner. Unless every griup is really that blind.

In the end this is a player issue and from 5 years of reading these forums, it is something they can’t fix, nor would you want them to.

See 4b. Not talking about guild runs. Talking about partial full squads for hours on end filled with all guilds that exclude for no good reason or abusive reason.

Didn’t say being a vet made me a good player. I am a good player, sometimes really good. Just is. Also happen to be a vet.

Not talking about TS, tho mandatory TS is part of the problem.

I do want anet to fix it, especially if the community cant bring themselves to stop bullying in this limited circumstance, and in fact, over time, are abusing it to the point where I could get players banned – but then we have even less player base, especially when some of these players are good for the server/game play.

Dawdler.8521:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I don’t think they should allow private “invite only” squads in wvw. Granted that does penalize guilds who want to do GvG activities, but I think they should already have their own game mode at this point since its called “Guild Wars.” Either way, I don’t think wvw should allow private tags, or the ability to kick people who want to join it.

Then guilds will run without a squad, like we did before we even had squads. Your argument is pointless as you cant stop this. Anet have themselves drawn the line at hiding the tag when using the squad function, but they wont dictate how people play.

True you cant stop a group of people from grouping together and following one another in private parties, but at least this change to squads, would show that anet is taking a stance on it.

Currently it’s ridiculous when you get a squad that is 32/50 “TS” only and you have a ton of people not in squad or balanced parties following along, that aren’t allowed in. They become easy targets and help to rez enemy downed players because they have no party support.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

ArchonWing.9480:

It is a difficult scenario. As time goes on, inner circles get formed and exclusion become natural. And unfortunately, given the the power creep of hot highlighting build wars, it has proven more efficient to be exclusive . And even between players that are superior individually are at a disadvantage when not in comms.

I also do feel that guilds run in their own because…. It is a guild run.

But, thete is also much that is lost, when groups get too insular. Especially when this game has been out for so long and vets grow tired of repeating the same kitten that they get a bit neophobic. It also results in stagnation as methods bwcome more ingrained

And certainly on my end, while I do make concessions for the greater good (i don’t run off meta in guild runs) I defintely have some strong opinions on what works and thise disagreements have caused quite a problem so I do have quite an appreciation for people willing to resolve diffrences.

Oh, btw it is quite easy to note the quality if someone’s zerg ability as zerging is fairly straightforward. In general if you don’t suck and you don’t have a terrible personality you will stand out and as a result I am usually very skeptical of the “vet player being oppressed” . Also, vet doesn’t mean you are any good either… I juat think it won’t be hard to get a group if you are indispensable in some from or manner. Unless every griup is really that blind.

In the end this is a player issue and from 5 years of reading these forums, it is something they can’t fix, nor would you want them to.

See 4b. Not talking about guild runs. Talking about partial full squads for hours on end filled with all guilds that exclude for no good reason or abusive reason.

Didn’t say being a vet made me a good player. I am a good player, sometimes really good. Just is. Also happen to be a vet.

Not talking about TS, tho mandatory TS is part of the problem.

I do want anet to fix it, especially if the community cant bring themselves to stop bullying in this limited circumstance, and in fact, over time, are abusing it to the point where I could get players banned – but then we have even less player base, especially when some of these players are good for the server/game play.

Well, guild runs are certainly a tangent, howver giving the number of pug blobs led by a guild run it is more or less leading to a similar mentality though admittingly in my locality they have become one and the same. My point of the game becoming less friendly to newcomers would help support your point, if only a little.

My other point is simply that if you are a valuable asset then it would be foolish for groups to not make concessions, though this goes both ways.

I don’t see any advantage in letting anyone join a squad. If you get placed in squad 8 with 3 base rangers, what has changed? And then the ugly part when someone in ts has no space to get in— who gets the axe?

And of course, I don’t think a squad works if not everyone is on the same page.

Malerian.8435:

I say the commander has the absolute right to run his/her squad the way they see fit. If you do not like it then just move on. I get your argument but Anet will not get involved in this. That is just the way it is, and will most likely never change. Anet will not tell people how they have to play the game as long as their rules are not being broken.

Their rules are being broken. Its also misleading advertising since many people simply cannot join squads with commanders (an advertised feature of the game) for no reason cept bullying. Everyone paid the same to play the game and some get to play featured/advertised content and others don’t (i.e – running with a commander in squad – not just entering wvw and doing some thing).

Anet can tell people how to play game and they do it all the time.

Remember, closed squad w/ kick function is relatively new feature in WvW and should not be condoned when only 1 squad is available and partially full and the reason for the kick/not invite has only to do with "we don’t like you " – especially since the person is on the map anyway and u won’t like them whether they are in squad or not, and everyone benefits when they join the squad and if they are not on TS (or are) or being abusive themselves then what is the difference? Chat is the same, play is the same, likes/dislikes are the same – the only difference is the squad/players/game mode/game is hurt when they are excluded – especially if they get hurt feelings and decide to sabotage zerg.

It should not be defended.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people defend this gross conduct by discriminatory cmdrs and lord of the flies squad allies. No one is disputing the cmrdr right to do this under present rules. What I am objecting to is this is abusive behavior and should not be tolerated by anet or anyone.

I am not asking nor forcing anyone to play my way. I am asking to be allowed to play, same as you. I am not a “lesser” person just cuz u don’t like me. You don’t get to have an exclusionary “Club” which excludes disabled people or people you don’t like for some reason [which, in my case, I have never been offered a reason, and its clear, someone or some many simply don’t like me, so that is the reason I am being booted – and why? cuz I complained about their egregious behavior? cuz I play aggressive and die? (which btw I do in or out of squad so no net effect/gain/loss to squad/server)- gimme a break] .

And btw u can force others to act as you would like – its called change, rules, laws, manners, etc.

If you were as good as you say you are and a vet and whatnot, people would already know you on your server. I can play anything i want on my mesmer and be on ts or not and most commanders won’t bat an eye. If anyone asks, why i run something, i bring out whole theory behind it and than they are like, oh this makes sense.

Why? Becouse they know me. Oh he’s a member of that guilds he knows kitten and stuff like that. Some of best portal boombs on server were done by me and my guildie. Before boonshare became popular and mesmer was still considered focus party material, commanders started putting me in their parties becouse of how much sustain i brought.

Like realy, put some work into it, get a name on your server and stop whining, yea you are deaf, a lot of people are and they have to work extra hard to achive something. People have all kinds of problems and they don’t whine here and demand punishment of commanders that are doing community a service.

We exclude people because we have that right. You have no inherent rights to join my group if we don’t want you in, but we can’t also force you not to follow the zerg. No TS or Discord? No problem. You can still play WvW.

We may have reasons to kick people out of groups. If you keep dying, or have a really poor build, you become a rallybot for the enemy. That affects KDR. If someone is really bad, not in the group, and follows the zerg, I would ping a WP in /squad and tell everyone to swap maps. But that’s never happened yet.

what come down to at end of the day is people want to win an the fact are most people suck at WvW an if they do not want to listen a commander should not have to deal with them.

Chaba.5410:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Cant afford to switch servers – don’t think this is an effective answer to the problem.

Switching servers absolutely is an effective answer to this problem. As others have said, this sounds like a social issue rather than a technology issue for devs to solve and I suspect that you have acquired a certain kind of reputation on your current server that can only be gotten rid of by a fresh start somewhere else.

Find a deaf-friendly WvW guild on another server that doesn’t require you to be on TS. You can always find players and guilds willing to help with transfer costs and I bet we could even start up a collection as a WvW community to help you with that cost, assuming you are able to find a server/guild willing to take you in.

A deaf-friendly wvw guild? This game is supposed to be handy cap accessible. Pretty sure excluding others for this could be considered harassment. Instead of suggesting that she goes to another server, why not suggest that fellow wvwers be more empathetic and understanding? Or consider having anet make some change to the mechanics which doesn’t allow others to exclude in this manner?

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

A deaf-friendly wvw guild? This game is supposed to be handy cap accessible. Pretty sure excluding others for this could be considered harassment. Instead of suggesting that she goes to another server, why not suggest that fellow wvwers be more empathetic and understanding? Or consider having anet make some change to the mechanics which doesn’t allow others to exclude in this manner?

How is it harassment for a Commander to leave out people he doesn’t want in the squad?

I hate the use of this word. It implies the person has no options but be subjected to anyone’s arbitrary rules.

Here’s a truism that applies to all aspects of life: you can’t force others to behave as you want.

You either accept their conditions or you create your own rules.

Get a commander tag. Be inclusive. Instantly become more popular because you’re more inclusive. Start getting players joining you from the other blob. Exclusive commander loses power, realizes why, becomes more inclusive.

Stop being a victim.

Be the change you want to see.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Instead of suggesting that she goes to another server, why not suggest that fellow wvwers be more empathetic and understanding? Or consider having anet make some change to the mechanics which doesn’t allow others to exclude in this manner?

I already said why. Because this is so clearly a social issue, not a technological one. Empathy and understanding do not arise from forcing others to open their squads who don’t want to for whatever reason. My offer to help the OP raise funds for a server transfer arises from empathy and understanding. Sorry you are unable to comprehend what you are trying to preach.

Honestly, you’re just going to have to suck it up, buttercup. They’re apparently not harassing you, they just don’t want to play with you for one or more reasons (you’ve named a few).

You have the power to solve your own problem here, you’re just choosing not to and demanding Anet do it for you. They aren’t going to, so you may as well.

So… maybe this should go under the PvE section. WvW falls under that for most fixes.

And then it would also include Raids, which by nature are exclusionary. In fact, more so.

If there is evidence of bullying, is chat etc, then yes, that is against the TOS.

There is nothing in the TOS that entitle you to a spot in squads, nor should there be.

You HAVENT spent as much as the commander who purchased the tag.

You have chosen, and yes, because of your inability to hear, to not join TS.

As for the rest, again, if you have screenshots of bullying, submit them. I don’t want people like that playing either.

But just because they don’t want you in their group, that doesn’t make them bullies.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Pretty sure excluding others for this could be considered harassment.

Wut.
You can’t force others to play with you. They can’t force you to play with them.

~ Kovu

If no one is verbally abusing you, you’re not being bullied, and you’re not being discriminated against.

People aren’t bullying you because you can’t join comms. They are denying you. Learn the difference.

Do you cry to daddy when you don’t get the job you want?

How much money would people have to shell out to have tags for “Guild only members”. Cuz I know a ton of people that would participate in that….

There would be a lot less frustrated people out there like said OP when they see a tag and can’t join…

Strider Pj.2193:

You have chosen, and yes, because of your inability to hear, to not join TS.

Yeah that’s nonsense, too.

A good commander will work with players that contribute, regardless if they’re in TS or not.

I can’t use TS, it hasn’t hindered my gameplay at all.

For those who are deaf and can’t use TS, you know the good commanders who still respond to your whispers. Support them.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I would really like Anet to address/change a problem in wvw which is growing worse and is used solely to hurt players.

Squads/cmdrs continue to use closed/no invite feature to exclude players from non-full squads for no reason.

I want to be clear about my complaint.

1. I love GW/wvw and am vet wvwer/gwer.

2. Im experienced good player; when motivated, can be exceptionally good player.

3. Don’t want cmdr tag, don’t want to lead, don’t have money for it.

4. Squads I am complaining about are:
A) partially full, usually 20-40;
B) not on guild runs or “training runs” (w/e that is) or “dual guild” runs (disingenuously explained as 2 guilds on training run, lol);
C) 1 squad/cmdr on a map;
D) Usually prime time, monopolizing map for >1 hr.; sometimes 4-5 hrs / nite multi days;
E) Squads w/ same players w/ control

5. I am not disputing a cmdr’s right to exclude people – they have that right. Whether they should exercise that right to exclude people for no good reason is the issue and whether people should support these types of cmdrs/squads and whether anet should do something about abuses is the issue.

6. Don’t want to roam/havoc/solo – have zerg armor/boosters/food/weapons.

7. I mean this (believe it or not I don’t care) – I dont care a fig about bags.

8. Every single reason ever given to justify squad exclusion as above are illogical and do not hold up. If its just that I am hated, that’s bullying, and u will hate me whether I’m in squad or not – and it hurts squad & players when players r excluded from squad who want to join.

9. TS should not be an exclusionary tool/excuse to ban people from squad for hours – especially if people can’t join TS for w/e reason (I’m deaf).

10. It hurts squad/server/players when ppl r forced to run alongside squad – they r not as effective and neither is squad – heals indiscriminate/untimely, buffs/rezes erratic, etc. Squad does better when I’m in it rather than forced to run beside it.

11. I paid the same as everyone else.

Pls Anet monitor this situation and consider a fix. I have seen/heard (via typing) so many sickening stories of abuse of players re: entry deny/kick in partially full squads for purely abusive/bullying reasons.

This isn’t bullying or abuse at all. Commanders have options to restrict who joins their squads and are well within their rights to use these systems. Just because they’re tagged doesn’t mean it should be a free for all and anyone should be able to join the squad just because its not full. At the end of the day regardless of if its a guild run or not its THEIR squad and they can do what they want with it so you’re just going to have to suck it up or explain to the commander that you are deaf and being on comms for you doesn’t matter one way or the other and hope they care enough to read your whispers. If the commander were to say you can’t join BECAUSE you are deaf, well that’s a different story altogether.

Let me save some argument time for this topic, as it’s been discussed over and over again.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Class-discrimination-game-modes/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/If-you-are-not-inTS-you-don-t-matter/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/commanders-kicking-Rangers-and-Thief/first

As mentioned in this thread, this is a social issue for players, not a technical one for Anet to solve for players. You pay for access to the game, you don’t pay for access and have the game force 20 players to play with you. Players have the right to play alone or with others, that’s why you don’t automatically join groups or guilds or squads when you log in.

It’s up to the player to find the right social situation for themselves.

Sounds like a social/community issue.

Judging by OP’s immense timeline of dissatisfaction regarding this topic at hand – details posted by Xenesisll above me, I can only suggest to you, OP, that you save some cold hard real cash and transfer servers.

There are many different communities. It looks like the server you are currently on has not been treating you very respectfully.

Chaba.5410:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Instead of suggesting that she goes to another server, why not suggest that fellow wvwers be more empathetic and understanding? Or consider having anet make some change to the mechanics which doesn’t allow others to exclude in this manner?

I already said why. Because this is so clearly a social issue, not a technological one. Empathy and understanding do not arise from forcing others to open their squads who don’t want to for whatever reason. My offer to help the OP raise funds for a server transfer arises from empathy and understanding. Sorry you are unable to comprehend what you are trying to preach.

I’m sorry, but you seem to be addressing this response to OP not the poster, so I will respond.

This practice is prevalent on all servers/maps. Its continuing and actually getting worse (like squad people saying “pay me x gold and u can join … lol”).

This is both a social issue and a technological issue. Anet has the ability to cure this practice quite easily technologically if people cannot find the understanding/empathy/logic to see that this exclusionary behavior only hurts players/game/game mode/servers, etc. and has no net effect to substantiate or justify the prejudicial behavior.

People do not get to engage in bullying behaviors on the game. Anet has rules against this. I have chosen to not report these people as the population is low and the players dedicated/good. But that does not make them any less discriminatory. To exclude disabled people is a direct violation of many rules. To exclude people because you don’t like them is bullying, plain and simple and to no net effect – you wont like them whether they are in squad or not, and they are on the map playing whether you like it or not. To exclude them from the benefits of the squad and hurt the squad and server and players (including players who object to this behavior who drop out of squad voluntarily) is hurting the game.

Why do people support this behavior? No one is asking you to play a certain way. You can play however you like. You can run a full or closed guild squad if you like and you can make exclusionary actions then. But this is not that scenario.

Pretty sure the poster understands the intent and scope of your understanding/empathy – I know I certainly do.

first half of your point 5 says it all.
there is no discussion to be had here.
People are free to include / exclude whoever they want in their parties / squads, and if you don’t like it, you are free to create your own. Play the game in the way you like, and grant others the same courtesy. And if there really is just one commander, he still not owes you to include you in his squad, regardless if it’s 6 people only or almost full. Executing this right certainly is no “abuse” since no existing restrictions were crossed, nor were existing game mechanics exploited in a unintentioned way, and it’s disingenuous on your behalf to refer to practices you personally don’t like as “abuse”.

if you don’t like it, transfer to another place that fits your expectations more. If no such place can be found, alt+f4 and uninstall.

Also,
>If its just that I am hated, that’s bullying,
It isn’t. Bullying would be to attack you. What you describe is the stellar opposite: they avoid you. No one can force them to play together with you. And it’s hard to believe that you want to play together with a group that YOU perceive as bullying you. So IF the reason actually is that you are hated by them, this should be an incentive for you to ask YOURSELF “why”, and change according to the answer.
And no, I don’t know you.
I don’t know if you are hated, and if yes, nor do I know why.
And frankly, I don’t care.
All I know is that your issue with this situation will not be resolved by a change in game design.
What is needed is a change on your own behalf.
Whether that is a change of character or a change of locality is up to you.
Good luck either way.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

This is both a social issue and a technological issue. Anet has the ability to cure this practice quite easily technologically if people cannot find the understanding/empathy/logic to see that this exclusionary behavior only hurts players/game/game mode/servers, etc. and has no net effect to substantiate or justify the prejudicial behavior.

First, and again I can’t state this enough. Post proof of people ACTUALLY bullying you.

Exclusion is not bullying, stop saying it is. Get over yourself, you’re not a special snowflake like mommy and daddy told you, welcome to the real world.

Second, I can post video proof that requiring TS in a squad has DRAMATICALLY increased the effectiveness of a squad in fights, and claiming otherwise is asinine if you don’t have proof to back up your claims.

You think the military would stop using communications because a few soldiers have hearing disabilities?

We get it, you’re feeling left out. Join another tag.

Don’t come whining on here that you’re being bullied and harrased when you’re not, and have posted ZERO evidence of having been.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

To exclude disabled people is a direct violation of many rules. To exclude people because you don’t like them is bullying, plain and simple and to no net effect – you wont like them whether they are in squad or not, and they are on the map playing whether you like it or not. To exclude them from the benefits of the squad and hurt the squad and server and players (including players who object to this behavior who drop out of squad voluntarily) is hurting the game.

Why do people support this behavior? No one is asking you to play a certain way. You can play however you like. You can run a full or closed guild squad if you like and you can make exclusionary actions then. But this is not that scenario.

Look. There is no rule that says we can’t kick you out of squad because of a disability. We can exclude anyone we want, for any reason. As long as we don’t tease you in game for whatever ailment you have, I don’t see any problems.

We don’t support bullying people, but we support the right to add and remove people as we see fit. Commanders who lead WvW know what’s best for their groups, so excluding someone can be beneficial to the server.

Strider Pj.2193:

So… maybe this should go under the PvE section. WvW falls under that for most fixes.

And then it would also include Raids, which by nature are exclusionary. In fact, more so.

If there is evidence of bullying, is chat etc, then yes, that is against the TOS.

There is nothing in the TOS that entitle you to a spot in squads, nor should there be.

You HAVENT spent as much as the commander who purchased the tag.

You have chosen, and yes, because of your inability to hear, to not join TS.

As for the rest, again, if you have screenshots of bullying, submit them. I don’t want people like that playing either.

But just because they don’t want you in their group, that doesn’t make them bullies.

Wvw is not the same as raids – raids are open ended – wvw is closed system w/ limited maps/servers/squads so not analogous. Sorry.

I don’t care where this post goes – if it bothers everyone in wvw, don’t read it or post it in pve if it is apt there too.

I have not disputed a cmdrs right to exclude.

I only asked Anet review their policies and consider this behavior as behavior which should not to be encouraged/allowed, and perhaps fixed out of existence like so many other exclusionary behaviors on this game that have met oblivion because they were harmful to players and the game.

I don’t want to be a cmdr or purchase a tag as stated above.

Purchasing a tag does not mean you should engage in exclusionary behavior and does not mean others should support you when you do engage in prejudicial/discriminatory/mean behavior.

This isn’t about being deaf or TS. I have several reasons for being unable to join via TS; however, this behavior has cropped up in other situations where TS was not mandatory but exclusionary practices were still engaged in by cmdrs w/ the power/money/power to exclude or boot people for no reason except they were being mean/bullying players for any number of egregious reasons, all of which I could have reported but chose not to – I chose instead to voice my concerns via TC and here as I find that more effective for people to self-police if they have it in their power to be nice. (And yes, I do have screenshots and audio records, but so what?).

This is not about TS. This is about partial squads (1 squad per map) excluding people for no or what amounts to arbitrary, prejudicial, mean reasons only.

And sorry to say, I disagree. When a commander boots u/does not invite u because they don’t like u, and then cmdr or allies go on to type or say in TS things that r abusive, mean or bullying, that is the very definition of bullying. Stop deluding and obfuscating.

There is no reason for the exclusion in these circumstances except bullying – and that does make them bullies. People who do it and those who support it need to own it and recognize how mean it is.

I’m a commander. Sometimes we run guild only. Sometimes we let people willing to hop on TS into the squad. I will rarely let people not in TS into the squad because my days as a pugmanding/textmander were over years ago.

Commanders should and do have the right to run their squads any way they like, and if you want to run with a given commander it is on you to meet their criteria for entry.

You are not self-entitled to a spot in a squad just because you bought the game. Or are on the same map as a commander with a half full squad.

But here is some good news for you, with rare exception, every WvW guild left in the game is recruiting players. You want a spot in a squad? Join one or more guilds and earn that spot.

Has to be a troll thread. Has to be….

>I have not disputed a cmdrs right to exclude.
You did.
In the very next paragraph you ask for this very right to be limited in a way to fit your very own preferences. Whether you like it or not, you did.

>Purchasing a tag does not mean you should engage in exclusionary behavior
It means nothing but that you want to lead a group.
how you design that group is up to you.
Who you invite is up to you.
Who you don’t invite is up to you, too.
On which standards you invide / exclude people is also up to you.

Like in pve raids, certain requirements increase the chance of success.
Excluding people because they decrease this chance is absolutely valid in-game behavior. This is not reality. This is nothing but leisure time. Exclusion in-game does not impact your livelihood, so excluding people with disabilities in general does not actually harm them on any other level as an emotional one. And to that I only can say “Offense is taken, not given”. If these people want to stay competitive by excluding people who are not fit for this competitive environment, they are free to do so in-game. And if you’d respect their right to play the game how they want – like you would ask for yourself, you have to admit that there is nothing to be complained about here.

A raid is not a real company. Deciding to exclude you from it does not put you into any disadvantage in your life. Therefore real-life industry-standards for the inclusion of disabled people do not apply in this scenario.
Deal with it.

Natto.5819:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

To exclude disabled people is a direct violation of many rules. To exclude people because you don’t like them is bullying, plain and simple and to no net effect – you wont like them whether they are in squad or not, and they are on the map playing whether you like it or not. To exclude them from the benefits of the squad and hurt the squad and server and players (including players who object to this behavior who drop out of squad voluntarily) is hurting the game.

Why do people support this behavior? No one is asking you to play a certain way. You can play however you like. You can run a full or closed guild squad if you like and you can make exclusionary actions then. But this is not that scenario.

Look. There is no rule that says we can’t kick you out of squad because of a disability. We can exclude anyone we want, for any reason. As long as we don’t tease you in game for whatever ailment you have, I don’t see any problems.

We don’t support bullying people, but we support the right to add and remove people as we see fit. Commanders who lead WvW know what’s best for their groups, so excluding someone can be beneficial to the server.

TOS:

“While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.”

“You may not violate any local, state, national, or international laws or regulations.”

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

“You may not violate any local, state, national, or international laws or regulations.”

Its Federal Law in the US that you can’t discriminate against handicapped persons. Its on par with hate speech.

I knew this was inbound…
Read my post above. The anti-discrimination act only refers to job-applications / promotions and other job-opportunities.
No actual judge would sentence a private person for excluding a blind person for their planned trip into a cinema, on the behalf that their spot in the car was given to someone else.
This discussion is beyond ridiculous already, without someone jumping in and reinterpreting laws out of context. And no, this is CERTAINLY NOT hatespeech.
kittening buzzword-culture…

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

“You may not violate any local, state, national, or international laws or regulations.”

Its Federal Law in the US that you can’t discriminate against handicapped persons.

Federal and State laws have no power over a private individual’s actions inside of a video game. If Anet were to exclude disabled people from playing this game based solely on the fact that the persons have a disability, then they could get in trouble. Good luck proving it, since Anet has complete and final say as to who gets to have an account. We all agree to this when we click on the TOS.

So to get back to this topic, a Commander can exclude a player from their squad for being disabled if they want. Doesn’t mean it’s morally right, and I don’t personally support it as well. But it’s their squad.

I’m glad I sobered up so I could participate in debates like this.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

This practice is prevalent on all servers/maps.

No it isn’t. You can’t possibly know without having an account on all servers.

Sacrifice to the forum bug gods.