Guild Wars 2

Seeing a lot of comments here on the forums about how WvW is unplayable and the stability ruined everything. The only bad side ive seen about stability stacks so far is that it makes everything laggier because its extra numbers the server has to keep track of.

So far ive only seen that changes affect big pug blob fights. They are complete pirate ships now for the most part. I haven’t seen organized groups have much to any trouble with this at all actually. It requires more attentiveness for the melee on their stacks and their surrounding cc’s but thats about it.

This is probably one of the biggest changes that can really shake up the meta for WvW and people are already qqing about really silly things after 2 days. Give it time, watch the meta evolve, oh, and L2P.

I agree. If folks are as skilled as they previously claimed, or their guild groups were as well, then they should have no problem. In my opinion, those who are complaining, used stability as a crutch and stacked it. When you cannot do anything with out the old stability, then you were not skilled, you simply stacked an over powered boon.

Not stability is overpowered, but CC is. Nothing is more infuriating than loosing control over your character. I know at least one MMO game which removed some of the more annoying CCs like fear from their game because its so annoying.
And I would argue CC in this game is even more annoying because you die faster and there are more ways to CC people in this game.

Malediktus.3740:

Not stability is overpowered, but CC is. Nothing is more infuriating than loosing control over your character. I know at least one MMO game which removed CC like fear from the game because its so annoying.

Actually there are several things more infuriating. Investing several or all your utility skills and elite skill, as well as traits, with CC skills, only to have them neutered and useless to one boon.

Every profession has access to multiple stun breakers and the professions that previously has stability still do, and have full immunity to often multiple uses of those elites, traits, and limited utility slots that said CC skills were invested in.

Malediktus.3740:

Not stability is overpowered, but CC is. Nothing is more infuriating than loosing control over your character. I know at least one MMO game which removed CC like fear from the game because its so annoying.

Well, Stability isn’t overpowered anymore, definitely. And CC is supposed to be infuriating and annoying, that’s it’s whole purpose[AKA you should not be having a blast when you get CC’ed], to make sure DPS doesn’t go running amok and unchecked. It’s also one of the core principles ANet promised the game’s balance would revolve around[DPS, CC, and Support]. The fact that CC is now actually controlling crowds means it’s doing its job. Maybe support, however, isn’t doing enough. Number tweaking can be done, but first we need to wait and see whether the meta can figure things out on its own before jumping on this.

Taking damage from a player, who can entirely ignore some, many, or all, of my utility skills and trait investments, yet have access to CC of their own, is ten fold, more infuriating then being able to ignore 5 CCs before it starts to matter.

I feel like cc should have a place in wvw and that an all out get out of jail free as some would claim it was was a bit too overpowered. However, I feel like in its current state, it needs some tweaking; some adjusting if you will. I envision some extreme cc spam that, if that is the case could end up turning the tables the other way. Now I usually raid with a guild group and last night we wrecked both frontline and the back line of blobs. Be weary…..this affects casters too. With that being said stab feels a bit lack luster but perhaps that could be my jaded experience that I knew as stab once was. Hopefully some adjustments overall will come that might balance everyone’s experience but I like the changes thus far. Dem poor pug blobs lol…..

So we are going to to trade one thing for another. Traded out stab supposed superiority for CC superiority. Basically back to the times where we had no stability boon.
Oh? We have two types of CC? Hard and soft? What soft CC still affected those with stab?
Huh?

I don’t get even attempting to defend this unless your server obviously has the numbers to push another server kitten in.

I tend to agree with the OP. Fighting outnumbered ZvZ, is just MORE about timing now.

with ZvZ, you just need to be much more careful about when, and where you commit to an engage.

I havent tried being outnumbered any more than 1:2, im sure i’d feel the stab change alot more with a 1:3 ratio. Then again, when you’re outnumbered 3 to 1, you dont have stab for very long anyway…

Old stab rewarded only coordination and not numbers. New stab only rewards numbers. CC was never useless, the only people that complained that it was were just asleep at the wheel.

Dondagora.9645:

Well, Stability isn’t overpowered anymore, definitely. And CC is supposed to be infuriating and annoying, that’s it’s whole purpose[AKA you should not be having a blast when you get CC’ed], to make sure DPS doesn’t go running amok and unchecked. It’s also one of the core principles ANet promised the game’s balance would revolve around[DPS, CC, and Support].

How could have been stability overpowered in the past? As long as I can say most of the kills in raid guilds were provided by the “focus parties”, which are mostly composed by necros.

If all, ranged AoE damage is the broke part of the game: provides more dps than melee with less risk, and spamming circles, fragging and using arrow charts require low to no skill.

Also, I’m not sure of how much the new system (based in stacks instead of seconds) is behind the abhorrend lag I’ve experienced the last two days in wvw (which reminded me a lot the early days of culling and massive rubber banding).

lmao at this whole thread, wonder if ppl even bin in WvW past 2,5y…? this is the biggest change to WvW since release and its NOT a good one. L2p issue ? lol oooh my

Don’t agree stability was overpowered, there were means to strip/counter it. Anyhow, with these changes some CC parameters should change, like adjusting max targets of some CC skills to 5, to balance things out again.

Anyway, saying L2P is I think the lazy way for saying “I don’t care about what you think/feel”. Of course, any changes can be accomodated, and they surely will be, but I think as of now, it changed the way how fights are being done, and not necessarily to better direction. At least I prefer the dynamic close combat rather than the pirate meta, circling around each other until someone gets bored, pushes and die on the CC sea.

People will adapt to this meta, unfortunately it will make for boring gameplay. to take away the one thing that made melee possible is to downgrade your gameplay. L2P ya, L2P boring meta. getting knocked to the ground every time you stand is awesome gameplay. its not like the cd isn’t 5x as long as the actual stability you get, and it’s not like you’re actually going to have stab for the 5 seconds advertised. Gotta love unstable stability. change the name if its not stable.

It is for sure an L2P and an adaptation process. I addition we can’t see the whole picture at the moment. We are not able to judge the influence of the new boon resistance, the shield generator or the new specialisations/class. In a few weeks we can play the beta and we will see the whole picture. A new round of L2P and adaptations will rule the beta regarding WvW.

So you’re saying it’s not a problem to have an “incomplete” (as no specializatino/new siege/revenant/resistance) until HoT comes out? Which will prolly be around 25th August? It’s completely fine to have an incomplete meta for months?

Also I don’t necessarily agree ruining gameplay just to introduce a new profession x months later.

Bubi.5237:

So you’re saying it’s not a problem to have an “incomplete” (as no specializatino/new siege/revenant/resistance) until HoT comes out? Which will prolly be around 25th August? It’s completely fine to have an incomplete meta for months?

Arenanet thinks it is acceptable to do it like this. We can use the beta phase to initiate changes for HoT.

eugenstash.8610:

I feel like cc should have a place in wvw and that an all out get out of jail free as some would claim it was was a bit too overpowered. However, I feel like in its current state, it needs some tweaking; some adjusting if you will. I envision some extreme cc spam that, if that is the case could end up turning the tables the other way. Now I usually raid with a guild group and last night we wrecked both frontline and the back line of blobs. Be weary…..this affects casters too. With that being said stab feels a bit lack luster but perhaps that could be my jaded experience that I knew as stab once was. Hopefully some adjustments overall will come that might balance everyone’s experience but I like the changes thus far. Dem poor pug blobs lol…..

I feel this post sums it up fairly aaccurately. I agree some adjustments are needed.

Incomplete meta, what kind of nonsense is that?

There is a complete meta it simply changed or better yet, it’s in the process of changing . After two years it’s no longer melee blob, haleluja we’re actually seeing something else for a change.

These hostile responses surprise me very little. Most players were Guardian and Warrior because they were the meta in the melee blob AKA hammer train. Of course they are none to pleased they have to change up their playstyle.

Can’t mix up a meta without kittening off the people who are on top of it.

coglin.1867:

eugenstash.8610:

I feel like cc should have a place in wvw and that an all out get out of jail free as some would claim it was was a bit too overpowered. However, I feel like in its current state, it needs some tweaking; some adjusting if you will. I envision some extreme cc spam that, if that is the case could end up turning the tables the other way. Now I usually raid with a guild group and last night we wrecked both frontline and the back line of blobs. Be weary…..this affects casters too. With that being said stab feels a bit lack luster but perhaps that could be my jaded experience that I knew as stab once was. Hopefully some adjustments overall will come that might balance everyone’s experience but I like the changes thus far. Dem poor pug blobs lol…..

I feel this post sums it up fairly aaccurately. I agree some adjustments are needed.

Agreed. I’m happy to see the Wheel of Fortunes turn, but there are some problematic CC skills that need the same eye given to them as was applied to Stability.

We pretty much traded “boring” stability melee trains for boring CC ranged blobs.

You don’t have to wait to see a new meta develop, it’s already developing and it’s far more boring than the last one. Got ranged? Got CC? Spam CC on people’s heads if they’re stupid enough to rush into you and stay ranged. Losing numbers? Drop back and spam enough CC stability can’t keep up with it. The only place it has to go from here is when two ranged blobs run into each other they drop siege in the middle of the field where they fight.

The main people championing this new meta are the ones who had no place in the previous GWEN meta because their CC’s and ranged damage is suddenly relevant.

When HOT comes along and all the maps are choke points you can’t push through cause you don’t have stability to get through CC and everything becomes a defensive quagmire I think you’re going to see a lot of these tunes change. Some people just gotta cut their noses off to spite their face.

So it’s your opinion against other people’s opinion then?

Because zerg tactics have never really been the apex of ingenuity. The GWEN meta was just press Stability, Press W in the direction of enemy blob, press 1 a lot.
And before that we had the whole stand densely packed on one spot, and press 1 a lot.

At least, after two years of the same meta, we’re seeing something change. And “quagmire’s” of defense sounds better than what meleetrain turned WvW into. A fight that doesn’t get decided within 20seconds might sound inconceivable to some.

I think CC’s, boons, condi removals, and boon stripping skills are pretty balanced. It’s a “L2P” instance with each of them. Pay attention to your bar and know how to time your skills to be able to keep your boons up, or some at least, if they are getting stripped in a wvw battle. On the flip side, every class has a self condi removal. Utilize that and do not use it prematurely.
In a group setting, your group should be helping with boon adding and condi removing. That’s why builds and support are in play. It’s not just a “my skills are for me only” game especially in WvW.

I like to play mesmer and ele. Mesmers, I’m null fielding my team and the enemy every chance I get. If my team is getting heavy with condis, it goes on us. If we’re fine (and first push), it goes on the enemies or where they’re moving to for boon removal. Do I give boons? Some, yes.
Elementalist. Give and take away condis, Give boons.
Necro, give condis, boon removal, give boons, and remove condis from everyone.
Warrior, give condi, gives boons, remove condis
Thief, Guardian, Engi…you get the picture if you know anything about those classes as well.
It’s a pretty balanced system. A player just needs to know what their class does.
Stability changed just changed how long stability lasts and how it stacks instead of duration. It’s not a game changing “oh no we’re going to die!” situation, but a player just needs to change (just a little) how they think of stability.

Terrahero.9358:

Because zerg tactics have never really been the apex of ingenuity. The GWEN meta was just press Stability, Press W in the direction of enemy blob, press 1 a lot.
And before that we had the whole stand densely packed on one spot, and press 1 a lot.

At least, after two years of the same meta, we’re seeing something change. And “quagmire’s” of defense sounds better than what meleetrain turned WvW into. A fight that doesn’t get decided within 20seconds might sound inconceivable to some.

If you really think that’s all there was to the GWEN meta you’re either over simplifying to the point of being hyperbolic or you really have no idea what you’re talking about. In either case you’re wrong. Half you people think it’s a good change to end blobbing when all its’ done is encourage blobbing even more so the latter of the two wouldn’t surprise me.

Change for the sake of change is never good. When you change things, you hope to aim for improvement not “whatever” simply because it’s different. Did stability need to be changed? Sure. However they also need to be responsible and also look at the other side of the equation and realize there’s far more CC’s than the scant amount of stability stacks give and that needs to be reconciled.

Kodiak.3281:

Change for the sake of change is never good.

probably shouldn’t throw words like “never” around in the same post your throwing the word “hyperbole” at other posters. It is a bit contradictory.

Often, change for the sake of change is in fact good. I for one appreciate a break in the monotony of the meta if nothing else.

Terrahero.9358:

Incomplete meta, what kind of nonsense is that?

There is a complete meta it simply changed or better yet, it’s in the process of changing . After two years it’s no longer melee blob, haleluja we’re actually seeing something else for a change.

These hostile responses surprise me very little. Most players were Guardian and Warrior because they were the meta in the melee blob AKA hammer train. Of course they are none to pleased they have to change up their playstyle.

Can’t mix up a meta without kittening off the people who are on top of it.

Yes it is a incomplete meta since we’re having to wait for the Resistance buff to attempt to upset the difference with having non-sustainable melee. And of course we don’t have a melee blob anymore, it’s a Range Blob now!

Terrahero.9358:

So it’s your opinion against other people’s opinion then?

Because zerg tactics have never really been the apex of ingenuity. The GWEN meta was just press Stability, Press W in the direction of enemy blob, press 1 a lot.
And before that we had the whole stand densely packed on one spot, and press 1 a lot.

At least, after two years of the same meta, we’re seeing something change. And “quagmire’s” of defense sounds better than what meleetrain turned WvW into. A fight that doesn’t get decided within 20seconds might sound inconceivable to some.

So switching to a meta where people aren’t punished for dumping all their cc, rather than actually paying attention to a enemy’s boons and tactically using cc, is better? And you’d rather have this meta where melee is almost completely invalidated and groups spend the fight mostly playing pew-pew-pew, as opposed to one where both melee and range have warrant and fights were engaging and direct?

I feel like everyone saying that allowing cc spam to counter stability is a good thing just aren’t that good at the game. ‘I feel like cc should have a place’? Did all the times I gave my team a near insurmountable advantage through expert use of statics just not happen? Have warriors not been using a weapon that’s main focus is on stuns since launch?

CC has always had a place in wvw for people good enough to use it. Now you don’t have to be good to use it, because if your team has more lines than the number of stability stacks a single member of the enemy team can access they can’t do anything about it.

‘what melee trains turned wvw into’? It’s a bad thing that both melee and ranged builds are viable? It’s a bad thing that a chokepoint doesn’t just hand a free win to the defenders? It’s a good thing that several classes that were viable will now struggle for viability while no new classes have gained viability?

If you want me to believe that this change is good, you have to establish firstly that stability was overpowered, that melee was overpowered and that stuns now aren’t overpowered.

I feel like they went from too far to one side, over the line to a point too far on the other.

They should probably add a few stacks to some of the stability skills, and limit things such as static field to 5, and limit AoE CCs in a similar way they did with damage skills.

Coldtart.4785:

It’s a bad thing that both melee and ranged builds are viable?

No. And it will still be the case. The new meta melee builds have not been found yet, that’s all.

It’s a bad thing that a chokepoint doesn’t just hand a free win to the defenders?

Well, yes, at least in the extreme situation we had before the patch. Defending in a chokepoint, while it is supposed to give a tactical advantage, had zero impact on the fight, since just on SYG on ONE guardian per party was enough to get you through most of the CC. Add the AoE cap while running into the chokepoint, and gg.

VR holding a tower against a much larger zerg back when stability not only blocked all cc but could be boosted to a longer duration than it currently can. Defending a chokepoint always gave a tactical advantage, but only to people skilled enough to play tactically.

Coldtart.4785:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L91Sq1zzAQ

VR holding a tower against a much larger zerg back when stability not only blocked all cc but could be boosted to a longer duration than it currently can. Defending a chokepoint always gave a tactical advantage, but only to people skilled enough to play tactically.

Cool vid, thanks! However, while VR makes some very sweet bursts and moves, you can see for example at 4:00, when they are defending behind h bridge, that they drop a lot of CC fields when they see the zerg running through the Veil, with absolutely no effect whatsoever: no one gets caught in it.

The purpose of early statics whenever I used them was always to force stability earlier than the enemy would otherwise need it, which would set up for later when we would land our stuns and down large numbers of enemies. I’ve also nearly single handedly caused my team to win fights with well placed statics in the past.

You should also note that their range heavy comp was already extremely effective against the enemy melee comps back when melee was at its strongest. Melee now is much weaker than it was when that video was made.

If cc before the patch was that bad and was everytime countered by stability. Why on earth was everbody using cc?
Wouldn’t it better to take different skills then?
Or is the truth that cc was always good but you have to use it at the right momentan and couldn’t spam it like today?

Well if you are noob enough lose stability you shouldn’t get it back. I don’t remember any situation when well of corruption would affect enemy zerg. Why even have these skills when they don’t do kitten? 40 man blob coming and i throw well of corruption they just run through it and zerg me down. What kind of game you don’t even need to avoid enemy utility skills?

Murksler.5261:

If cc before the patch was that bad and was everytime countered by stability. Why on earth was everbody using cc?
Wouldn’t it better to take different skills then?
Or is the truth that cc was always good but you have to use it at the right momentan and couldn’t spam it like today?

Hard CC was useless, for example take two blobs at inner hills, say the attacking blob was a heavy melee train and the defending blob was more ranged, the heavy melee train has to go through the chokes on the bridge / lords room entrance.

In theory the heavy melee train should be at a big disadvantage from having to push two chokes where the ranged heavy blob can lay down all that damage, in reality it was the opposite, because of a combination of the 5 man AOE cap, that stability was very unlikely to get stripped (in AOE terms), that even if by some miracle the stab was stripped on the odd melee, it could be instantly reapplied by a group rotating stability (or warriors switching out a shout for an extra stability skill) and of course that the stability rendered hard CC as useless.

The result of which is the melee train was basically unstoppable (and before you say but the damage – AOE 5 man cap, dodge rolls, invurn skills), and obviously once the melee train gets in to the lords room it is all over.

Now this change to stability might have gone a bit too much the other way, but that doesn’t change stability was way overpowered and often there was no “right time” to use hard CC, because to take my earlier example the time when you actually needed to CC when a huge melee train is pushing, for those seconds they have perma-stability, it is no good using it when they have pushed to outside the Lord room, are without stab and are simply waiting for their SYG / virtue to come off cooldown for the push into the lord’s room.

Honestly the change to stab is a combination of things. L2P, learn to adapt and possibly anet look to balance CCs. Currently when it’s an equal numbers fight it’s adapt and L2P, but when the numbers are horribly in the enemies favor the CC balance might need to be looked at. Of course if Anet doesn’t want the 20 man groups to be able to beat the 60 man blob then GGWP.

I didn’t really decide yet if I like the nerf or not. My guardian surely got a decent hit but my ele was pretty much buffed.

The things I feel too OP are the circular stun fields namely Static. The different lines or walls are easy to avoid while they still fulfil their role. You can walk along them and even if you got AoE spike you can dodge-leap back to safety. They are mostly single purpose depending on the situation. Offence or defence. Linear ward skills can determine the enemies movement or strip a stability stack with no target limit. Fine for me.
The circular wards prevent the enemy’s any movement. They cannot fall back or attack, they cannot really dodge. Ring of Warding is melee range so I can understand why the no target limit. However the StaticField should not have unlimited “charges”. It forces you to use your stability stack or die. The counterplay is very limited. This is my only concern about the Stability change.

EDIT:

Oh, I don’t really call for nerf for eles. I’m absolutely aware that the static is one of their important “zerg” skill. But now they can safely hide in the main blob without risking to get hammered to death. Sniping them is very-very difficult nowadays. You cannot just send two rangers and a thief to hunt down those pesky eles because they are protected by a whole hammertrain. Attacking them with melee forces are countered by themselves. Catch 22.

Yeah, stab only wrecks the gameplay of melee builds, so you are right, it is not really a big deal.

Ranged are inconvenienced by the stab changes; melee are neutered by the stab changes. Welcome to Range Wars 2. People who main melee are infuriated, and justifiably so.

Pirate Ship meta is boring, and rewards those who can stack the most CC, hence blobbing is even more rewarded. Hammer Train meta could easily be avoided by double dodging and some hard CC. That’s not a L2P issue that’s fact.

Anything that rewards blobs and punishes skill groups is a bad thing for WvW overall imo. Sure 20v20 will be even, but make that a zergbusting guild going against a blob, and the playing field has been EVEN MORE stacked against the smaller group. Therefore why run skill groups anymore? GvG guilds generally got their start from open field zergbusting guilds. If open field zergbusting has been crippled(it has) then there will be fewer and fewer GvG guilds starting. Maybe this was ANets plan all along who knows, but it’s a bad plan.

Everything just seems to take more time now in engagements. I ran melee last night and still had my stabo for one pushes but having to retreat out of range until the cd’s up once stripped (as expected and it should be). With so many CC’s though it is more wait then battle. Still wiped pug blobs but overall play just felt slower and boring. Everything is too careful and cautious. It’s like one push to drop a few players… range…. one push to drop a few more … range. Am I the only one who feels engagements are much slower paced with this change?

They could just make it so you can dodge over walls and statics etc…

defrule.7236:

They could just make it so you can dodge over walls and statics etc…

cough revenant :P

Hexin.5603:

Everything just seems to take more time now in engagements. I ran melee last night and still had my stabo for one pushes but having to retreat out of range until the cd’s up once stripped (as expected and it should be). With so many CC’s though it is more wait then battle. Still wiped pug blobs but overall play just felt slower and boring. Everything is too careful and cautious. It’s like one push to drop a few players… range…. one push to drop a few more … range. Am I the only one who feels engagements are much slower paced with this change?

No you aren’t and it’s the primary reason why I, an Elementalist who benefits from these changes arguably the most, dislike them. It slows WvW engagements way down because you either have enough people to just run over them or you spend way too long fighting. There’s basically no way to quickly end an engagement now because CC’s are far too prevalent and prevent quick pushes. This always gives the enemy side a chance to fall back a bit, recover, and go back to using range on each other.

The other night in Borderlands we had our group vs enemy group out in the open and it was a 30 minute fight over nothing for nothing with no resolution. Other side eventually just left to go defend another objective with nothing resolved but a huge chunk of time wasted.

The problem is there’s too many people who simply have no idea what they are talking about or are in lower tiers were their opinions on how WvW goes are diluted by their experiences in lower tiers. I mean Hammer Trains haven’t been a thing for a long time but you still see posts here about them. People say “well just avoid that ground CC!” as if they’re accustomed to uncoordinated fights where commanders don’t have you drop CC right on the enemy’s heads so they can’t avoid it. Hell, half the people posting here in favor of it claim it reduces blobbing when all it’s done is increase blobbing.

Other people see those few initial CC’s and go, “See this is exactly what I am talking about! They completely ignored those CCs!” except what they are completely ignorant about was those CC’s were dropped to bait the enemy into Stability timers so they could follow up with a Soft CC (Chill Fields) and Spike damage (Necro Wells) followed up by actual CC drops (now that stability is gone) to mop up the pack so it can’t recover. They just have no idea that’s how it works and they’re working off the limited knowledge they have on the matter.

Hence we get all this noise which I’m sure the devs roll their eyes at and go, “Oh look…another topic for people to argue over.”

The stab change was necessary on so many levels. Previously, it was just wrong that a group could just pop stab and run completely immune to CC the entire battle when rotated (which isn’t difficult). It required no skill what so ever. Now dropping CC on a group means something, where you manage to CC the group or not.

This makes battles more interesting now is it’s literally like a game of chess waiting for your opponents to make the wrong move.

DeadlySynz.3471:

The stab change was necessary on so many levels. Previously, it was just wrong that a group could just pop stab and run completely immune to CC the entire battle when rotated (which isn’t difficult). It required no skill what so ever. Now dropping CC on a group means something, where you manage to CC the group or not.

This makes battles more interesting now is it’s literally like a game of chess waiting for your opponents to make the wrong move.

The stab change without CC changes was terrible on so many levels. Currently, it’s just wrong that a group can just pop CC and completely stop any other group in it’s tracks. It requires no skill what so ever. Now stability means absolutely nothing because you can just CC every other group.

This makes battles boring as hell because it’s literally a game of tic-tac-toe where soon as you go for the win you immediately get blocked with Ckittenil both sides get frustrated that no one can win and leave because the only way to win is to not fight.

Kodiak.3281:

DeadlySynz.3471:

The stab change was necessary on so many levels. Previously, it was just wrong that a group could just pop stab and run completely immune to CC the entire battle when rotated (which isn’t difficult). It required no skill what so ever. Now dropping CC on a group means something, where you manage to CC the group or not.

This makes battles more interesting now is it’s literally like a game of chess waiting for your opponents to make the wrong move.

The stab change without CC changes was terrible on so many levels. Currently, it’s just wrong that a group can just pop CC and completely stop any other group in it’s tracks. It requires no skill what so ever. Now stability means absolutely nothing because you can just CC every other group.

This makes battles boring as hell because it’s literally a game of tic-tac-toe where soon as you go for the win you immediately get blocked with Ckittenil both sides get frustrated that no one can win and leave because the only way to win is to not fight.

Get some PvE players in your guild. Dungeons teach players some basic skills like red circle = bad.

Junkpile.7439:

Get some PvE players in your guild. Dungeons teach players some basic skills like red circle = bad.

PvE is entirely different than any kind of PvP (including WvW).

First, PvE is made up of designed encounters. That means that there is a way through every encounter, even if your not stacking and exploiting broken mechanics. There are places to stand where there are no red circles, attacks that come at regular intervals so you can recharge your endurance, etc… In a PvP environment, on the other hand, combat is dynamic. It may not be possible to avoid the red circles.

Second, PvE players don’t avoid the red circles. They stack in a corner and beat the boss senseless before a red circle can appear. Their tactics won’t work.

Junkpile.7439:

Get some PvE players in your guild. Dungeons teach players some basic skills like red circle = bad.

Get some WvW players in your guild. WvW teaches you that it’s very easy to drop an instantaneous AOE CC effect right on top of your head with no 3s warning because PvE is slowed down to -92 difficulty

Sorry to look a little rude but be aware that pve skill reqirement is the level 0 on the skill meter in gw2.

Everybody talking about presenting by any way pve skill level as a reference has no idea on what skill is.

There iw nothing more brain dead than pve today in gw2.
Thanks about the advice of red circles…but I think it will bring more added value i pve section.