Guild Wars 2

Kasteros.9847:

Sixes.5824:

Sorel.4870:

Kasteros.9847:

3. This need skill – some players are too dull to play him

There you go. That could also explain why these same dull players can’t find a way to play around a needed change in balance instead of crying on the forums.

Yep, that’s what I was driving at.

There are solutions, they don’t involve charging headfirst into the zerg.

To be fair though, this meta will be short lived regardless given HoT is going to change a whole lot.

Man but the point is that player know how to play and they don’t rush headfirst but when u kite u die against blob cos of range cc spam form guardian, eles. Everyone know how to play new meta with this new stabil, but this don’t work against blob, actually nothing work against blobs – only other lbob can do something

So you are facing large blobs that know how to play.

Well, to be fair if you are 20v60 and they are as good as you are, you are going to lose in any game. If you want to win while outnumbered, you have to play better. If you can’t, that leaves two options:
1 – You can adapt and outplay them if the game allows for it.
2 – There is no way to outplay them because of a low skill cap, in which case you need to play a game with a higher skill cap and outplay the randoms there.

Seeing as this is a game with a somewhat competitive pvp scene, I have trouble believing there is no room to outplay 60 man blobs. There is no way the randoms following a leader in chat, with maybe half of them on TS, are anywhere near as coordinated as a respectable guild.

To be honest if the 3-5 decent guards/elementalists in that blob are out-ccing you at max range, your own long ranged players need to L2P, as per the title of this thread. Blobs are not 100% guards and elementalists, most of the characters in them are fluffy kittens (note, I mean real kittens, nothing censored) following a leader because it seems heroic and they can’t land a darn thing.

Not only that, but if you are going to play at long range, as indicated in previous posts by myself and others, you do need to rethink comps and setups a little, if your 20 man squad has 8 wars, then it’s a 12 man squad for kiting. If some guilds can do it and you haven’t figured it out yet, ask them, maybe they’ll be nice and teach you.

Pre-stab changes, the melee train was the focal point, ranged simply assisted & supported the melee train. Where melees went, ranged bombed. Melee train had time to flip stab on, go kittens deep, and had just enough to draw back out.

Post-stab changes, the melee train isn’t the focal point, ranged sometimes have to bomb outside the melee train because the melee train can’t just stand there forever while you bombed anymore. Because stability is more precious, the commander has to make the call whether to go kittens deep, or to draw. You can’t have both. You have enough stability to go all the way in still, but you won’t have stab to go all the way out. So when you commit, you commit.

In my opinion, the current meta makes melees & especially Commanders think more. You no longer flip a switch and roll in deep, break some faces, then roll out. You have to decide whether you want to draw early, or you go all the way in deep. It’s a big decision because the wrong decision often means a wipe.

Also the melee train actually has more responsibility to protect ranged now. Since without your ranged, you’re as good as dead in this meta. So melee train has a bigger role, and the commanders actually have to call shots by watching enemy movements in relations to his/her ranged positions. Melees in a way support the ranged more now to allow the ranged to bomb properly.

When you watch 2 zergs go at it together, the zerg that’s going to win is the one where melees have done their roles, and that their ranged are free casting, playing an aggressive game. The side that loses are where their melee train can’t hold the lines, and their ranged are broken up, busy running and repositioning.

Honestly I don’t think the stab changes are all that bad. Many commanders in T1 have already adjusted and are running their raids differently. I see more multi-groups now than before. Where as before you could roll 1 blob and win GW2. Now I see 2-3 smaller groups capable of countering blobs. I can understand why many melees don’t like the new stab changes. But if you just think a bit differently, and change the way you view the a battlefield, you’ll find that you are even more precious and have even more responsibilities than before. Stability is now more precious than ever, you have to really know when to use it.

Coldtart.4785:

Stability can now be countered by the one mechanic it was made to counter. Explain how that is even remotely good.

Because prior to that it had the potential to be a permanent counter. It got to the point where it was completely useless to drop any type of CC on a melee train. Even with boon stripping, it was still useless to drop any CC. It’s terrible design to completely negate all CC for the duration of a battle.

I’ve said this for quite sometime, and I’m glad they finally delivered; the simplest and biggest change they could make to WvW was to change how stability worked. They did it, and kudos to them. WvW just got infinitely better and the fights far more interesting.

If your group is having problems dealing with the CC, get more Rangers in your zerg to pick off culprits. They tear both ele’s and necros apart rather easily when they aren’t ready which is almost always the case. They do serve a purpose, just not one that everyone would like them to be.

No good guild ran permanent stability. The meta warrior used hammer. I cc’d everything from trash t1 blobs to the best guilds in the game. You can keep saying it wasn’t possible all you want if you really enjoy being wrong but the truth is melee was never overpowered and nerfing its stability was unnecessary.

Btw rangers still suck at everything but 1v1. Reflects, yo.

Coldtart.4785:

No good guild ran permanent stability. The meta warrior used hammer. I cc’d everything from trash t1 blobs to the best guilds in the game. You can keep saying it wasn’t possible all you want if you really enjoy being wrong but the truth is melee was never overpowered and nerfing its stability was unnecessary.

Btw rangers still suck at everything but 1v1. Reflects, yo.

Your confusing subjective opinion with objective fact if you are going g to so declaritively, that it wasn’t over powered. The duration that you could negate entire utility skill like especially was OP in my opinion. I do feel it swung a little too far the other way, based on how much stability some CC skills can strip. I feel with slight changes, a happy medium can be found.

coglin.1867:

Your confusing subjective opinion with objective fact if you are going g to so declaritively, that it wasn’t over powered. The duration that you could negate entire utility skill like especially was OP in my opinion. I do feel it swung a little too far the other way, based on how much stability some CC skills can strip. I feel with slight changes, a happy medium can be found.

The meta was already moving towards this current pirate ship meta. There is no possible way you can spin it that melee was more powerful than ranged.

Sixes.5824:

Kasteros.9847:

Sixes.5824:

Sorel.4870:

Kasteros.9847:

3. This need skill – some players are too dull to play him

There you go. That could also explain why these same dull players can’t find a way to play around a needed change in balance instead of crying on the forums.

Yep, that’s what I was driving at.

There are solutions, they don’t involve charging headfirst into the zerg.

To be fair though, this meta will be short lived regardless given HoT is going to change a whole lot.

Man but the point is that player know how to play and they don’t rush headfirst but when u kite u die against blob cos of range cc spam form guardian, eles. Everyone know how to play new meta with this new stabil, but this don’t work against blob, actually nothing work against blobs – only other lbob can do something

So you are facing large blobs that know how to play.

Well, to be fair if you are 20v60 and they are as good as you are, you are going to lose in any game. If you want to win while outnumbered, you have to play better. If you can’t, that leaves two options:
1 – You can adapt and outplay them if the game allows for it.
2 – There is no way to outplay them because of a low skill cap, in which case you need to play a game with a higher skill cap and outplay the randoms there.

Seeing as this is a game with a somewhat competitive pvp scene, I have trouble believing there is no room to outplay 60 man blobs. There is no way the randoms following a leader in chat, with maybe half of them on TS, are anywhere near as coordinated as a respectable guild.

To be honest if the 3-5 decent guards/elementalists in that blob are out-ccing you at max range, your own long ranged players need to L2P, as per the title of this thread. Blobs are not 100% guards and elementalists, most of the characters in them are fluffy kittens (note, I mean real kittens, nothing censored) following a leader because it seems heroic and they can’t land a darn thing.

Not only that, but if you are going to play at long range, as indicated in previous posts by myself and others, you do need to rethink comps and setups a little, if your 20 man squad has 8 wars, then it’s a 12 man squad for kiting. If some guilds can do it and you haven’t figured it out yet, ask them, maybe they’ll be nice and teach you.

Skilled? Blobs of 60 skilled? Man they can just spam 1 and put up 60k dmg on 1 target, spam ccs and spam aoe. It isn’t about skill, it is about numbers Also since when blobs are skilled? Always same bunch of 1. skill and aoe spammers but now they spam ccs too

Dunno how at ur server but at my(deso) randoms join ts very often( last time we had 109 at 1 channel with 100 ppl map cap) and it is not hard to watch tag and follow it. Really, if u knwo the way to outplay blob with current meta please share it with me cos looks like I’m not enough skilled to do so.

Blob now run players that know a bit how to play( at last they can land aoes and put ccs) and typical blbo run around 30 papers( eles and necros) so it isn’t about our papers to leran how to play cos they do their job as we saw at povs, but enemy have too much stabil in compare to our stacks of it and our number of ccs – it isn’t like 2 years ago when blobs were 90% arrows without ts etc.

We had 3 warriors since they are useless with new meta and used for banner only – they go in meele they insta die. So it isn;t baout set-up, and here u went 12 papers against 30 who win by simple outnumbering enemy with ccs?

gavyne.6847:

You have enough stability to go all the way in still, but you won’t have stab to go all the way out. So when you commit, you commit.

You don’t, try to play meele in blob and go into enemy with 5 stacks of stabil, u will lose them after less than 1 sec in static / lines spam.

Kasteros.9847:

Skilled? Blobs of 60 skilled? Man they can just spam 1 and put up 60k dmg on 1 target, spam ccs and spam aoe. It isn’t about skill, it is about numbers Also since when blobs are skilled? Always same bunch of 1. skill and aoe spammers but now they spam ccs too

Dunno how at ur server but at my(deso) randoms join ts very often( last time we had 109 at 1 channel with 100 ppl map cap) and it is not hard to watch tag and follow it. Really, if u knwo the way to outplay blob with current meta please share it with me cos looks like I’m not enough skilled to do so.

Blob now run players that know a bit how to play( at last they can land aoes and put ccs) and typical blbo run around 30 papers( eles and necros) so it isn’t about our papers to leran how to play cos they do their job as we saw at povs, but enemy have too much stabil in compare to our stacks of it and our number of ccs – it isn’t like 2 years ago when blobs were 90% arrows without ts etc.

We had 3 warriors since they are useless with new meta and used for banner only – they go in meele they insta die. So it isn;t baout set-up, and here u went 12 papers against 30 who win by simple outnumbering enemy with ccs?

If you do not know how it is on other servers, then why are you telling everyone what large forced do on other servers?

coglin.1867:

Kasteros.9847:

Skilled? Blobs of 60 skilled? Man they can just spam 1 and put up 60k dmg on 1 target, spam ccs and spam aoe. It isn’t about skill, it is about numbers Also since when blobs are skilled? Always same bunch of 1. skill and aoe spammers but now they spam ccs too

Dunno how at ur server but at my(deso) randoms join ts very often( last time we had 109 at 1 channel with 100 ppl map cap) and it is not hard to watch tag and follow it. Really, if u knwo the way to outplay blob with current meta please share it with me cos looks like I’m not enough skilled to do so.

Blob now run players that know a bit how to play( at last they can land aoes and put ccs) and typical blbo run around 30 papers( eles and necros) so it isn’t about our papers to leran how to play cos they do their job as we saw at povs, but enemy have too much stabil in compare to our stacks of it and our number of ccs – it isn’t like 2 years ago when blobs were 90% arrows without ts etc.

We had 3 warriors since they are useless with new meta and used for banner only – they go in meele they insta die. So it isn;t baout set-up, and here u went 12 papers against 30 who win by simple outnumbering enemy with ccs?

If you do not know how it is on other servers, then why are you telling everyone what large forced do on other servers?

“Dunno how at ur server” cos i don’t know what is his current server? And i know how blobs move at other servers – I’ve spend some time at 1/2 of server in this game and know a lot of ppl that give me info. I also see with my own eyes how lbobs move, what numbers run etc., u know, after almost 3 years of wvw fighting i know a bit and can say things like this.

It doesn’t matter who you “claim” gave you info. The forums are to discuss your opinion and perspective with others discussing their opinions and perspectives. Not to claim to represent others opinions or perspectives. I doubt you know any more or less players then I. by the way, the game hasn’t been released for 3 years.

Kasteros.9847:

rainisword.7860:

Seeing a lot of comments here on the forums about how WvW is unplayable and the stability ruined everything. The only bad side ive seen about stability stacks so far is that it makes everything laggier because its extra numbers the server has to keep track of.

So far ive only seen that changes affect big pug blob fights. They are complete pirate ships now for the most part. I haven’t seen organized groups have much to any trouble with this at all actually. It requires more attentiveness for the melee on their stacks and their surrounding cc’s but thats about it.

This is probably one of the biggest changes that can really shake up the meta for WvW and people are already qqing about really silly things after 2 days. Give it time, watch the meta evolve, oh, and L2P.

So…now can u wipe out whole blob(60) with zerg(20)? U CAN’T. Why? Cos of massive cc and stabil spam – zergs and guilds can’t do a kitten to avoid it, and then they get flooded by 30 mt when they have 20 ppl( including mt and papers). And that is the point of ppl. I don’t give a kitten about zerg vs zegr cos u can have lot of strategies, but against blob…nothing work even stacking 25 stacks of stabil for leader. Also before patch u could wipe blob with zerg. So it isn;t about L2P like all u ppters say. It is about numbers, that is all.

Ive been amongst the top gvg guilds in this game, and I can tell you that wiping an actual 60 with 20 has been impossible since the few months after launch when wvw was full of uplevels and people who didnt know what the hell they were doing with no commander tag. A lot of guilds, top guilds, severely exaggerate the number they fight. A realistic 60 looks like 80 or a full map queue.

You couldn’t kill 60 semi-coordinated people before who know how to press skills because damage was nerfed so many times in this game. The blob youd fight would have to be really really stupid to die to a 1/3rd their number.

I still raid every night with my guild and were able to go against +30 somtimes 40 with 18.

If you think about it, the list of complaints people make are really bad actually. It all comes down to “they have more cc’s so they are empowered cuz their larger numbers.” That same fact has ALWAYS been true when fighting larger numbers. Larger numbers have more potential damage, cc, and sustain than you, yet thats never stopped zergbusting because it comes down to whose more coordinated.

Sure, a 60 man group may have 80 plus targetless cc’s, but that doesnt’ mean they are coordinated enough to slam them all down at once.