Guild Wars 2

Zetsumei.4975:

Jski.6180:

I did not realize this but persisting ground aoe stab effects maybe the strongest version of stab for wvw so necro well of power may become very good soon. Image one of the worst stab classes will be getting a lot better at self stab and stab support.

Well of power only gives the user stability and it doesn’t pulse stability it gives you in once and it’s only 1 second long

Awww well i guess its still good for the necro.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Yup but when the change goes through and ranged combat becomes the new meta everyone can stack on the ground target pulsing skills and pew pew each other without moving. As long as you have the bigger group you will win!

Until the thfs dive on the back line we can get some real gank or when the full hammer tran appears from being mass stealth from vail or even portal bomb 2 prong attk. Remember the meta is having mass number of guardians because stab is so op and unstoppable.

Jski.6180:

Zetsumei.4975:

Jski.6180:

I did not realize this but persisting ground aoe stab effects maybe the strongest version of stab for wvw so necro well of power may become very good soon. Image one of the worst stab classes will be getting a lot better at self stab and stab support.

Well of power only gives the user stability and it doesn’t pulse stability it gives you in once and it’s only 1 second long

Awww well i guess its still good for the necro.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Yup but when the change goes through and ranged combat becomes the new meta everyone can stack on the ground target pulsing skills and pew pew each other without moving. As long as you have the bigger group you will win!

Until the thfs dive on the back line we can get some real gank or when the full hammer tran appears from being mass stealth from vail or even portal bomb 2 prong attk. Remember the meta is having mass number of guardians because stab is so op and unstoppable.

nope that’s the old meta, we are moving on to the ranged meta. Now bow before your ranger overlords!

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jski.6180:

Zetsumei.4975:

Jski.6180:

I did not realize this but persisting ground aoe stab effects maybe the strongest version of stab for wvw so necro well of power may become very good soon. Image one of the worst stab classes will be getting a lot better at self stab and stab support.

Well of power only gives the user stability and it doesn’t pulse stability it gives you in once and it’s only 1 second long

Awww well i guess its still good for the necro.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Yup but when the change goes through and ranged combat becomes the new meta everyone can stack on the ground target pulsing skills and pew pew each other without moving. As long as you have the bigger group you will win!

Until the thfs dive on the back line we can get some real gank or when the full hammer tran appears from being mass stealth from vail or even portal bomb 2 prong attk. Remember the meta is having mass number of guardians because stab is so op and unstoppable.

nope that’s the old meta, we are moving on to the ranged meta. Now bow before your ranger overlords!

Ya if your going to single target and kill a zerg one at a time….. Your never going to even full down ppl. But even if its the way you say the hard counter to rang meta is gank meta.

Jski.6180:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jski.6180:

Zetsumei.4975:

Jski.6180:

I did not realize this but persisting ground aoe stab effects maybe the strongest version of stab for wvw so necro well of power may become very good soon. Image one of the worst stab classes will be getting a lot better at self stab and stab support.

Well of power only gives the user stability and it doesn’t pulse stability it gives you in once and it’s only 1 second long

Awww well i guess its still good for the necro.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Yup but when the change goes through and ranged combat becomes the new meta everyone can stack on the ground target pulsing skills and pew pew each other without moving. As long as you have the bigger group you will win!

Until the thfs dive on the back line we can get some real gank or when the full hammer tran appears from being mass stealth from vail or even portal bomb 2 prong attk. Remember the meta is having mass number of guardians because stab is so op and unstoppable.

nope that’s the old meta, we are moving on to the ranged meta. Now bow before your ranger overlords!

Ya if your going to single target and kill a zerg one at a time….. Your never going to even full down ppl. But even if its the way you say the hard counter to rang meta is gank meta.

You doubt the power of the bow!? You are lucky we are merciful overlords, your death will be a swift one.

xDudisx.5914:

Coyote.7031:

xDudisx.5914:

Actually you are wrong, every profession has at least 1 source of stability. If it is used or not is another discussion.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

Thief only has dagger storm though. And that’s an elite and a situational one at that, I don’t think most builds use it. And mesmers have a mantra, but I don’t think many mesmers run mantras except for maybe the condition removal one. Some professions have way better access to stability.

My necro for example has her elite, her well, and when in WvW she’s traited for stability in death shroud. So much stability from just one profession.

Like I said I was not discussing if it used or not. Just saying that all classes have 1 or more sources of stab.

What is used and unused may change after the patch that adjust stability, and what ever else changes go in that patch that have not been mentioned.

To clarify, I wasn’t speaking to access to stability in general. I was referring to stability in comparison to that of the warrior or the guardian. The link provided has skills on that wiki page that literally give 1s of stability on a 50s cool down in some cases. If I had to guess, it was more of comment based on my wording, rather then to be helpful to the discussion, I am unclear how that declaration was intended to help the discussion.

I strongly applaud the change. Anything that hurts blobs is good for the game.

Maybe folks will strive to be more than casuals and fully learn their professions…nah, better to get red in the face complaining than adapt.

coglin.1867:

xDudisx.5914:

Coyote.7031:

xDudisx.5914:

Actually you are wrong, every profession has at least 1 source of stability. If it is used or not is another discussion.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

Thief only has dagger storm though. And that’s an elite and a situational one at that, I don’t think most builds use it. And mesmers have a mantra, but I don’t think many mesmers run mantras except for maybe the condition removal one. Some professions have way better access to stability.

My necro for example has her elite, her well, and when in WvW she’s traited for stability in death shroud. So much stability from just one profession.

Like I said I was not discussing if it used or not. Just saying that all classes have 1 or more sources of stab.

What is used and unused may change after the patch that adjust stability, and what ever else changes go in that patch that have not been mentioned.

To clarify, I wasn’t speaking to access to stability in general. I was referring to stability in comparison to that of the warrior or the guardian. The link provided has skills on that wiki page that literally give 1s of stability on a 50s cool down in some cases. If I had to guess, it was more of comment based on my wording, rather then to be helpful to the discussion, I am unclear how that declaration was intended to help the discussion.

The point is to prevent people to believe that not all classes can have stability. Not only guard and warrior are affected by stab changes.

Engi for example can trait elixir B to have almost same stab uptime as stand your ground.

Traited necro can have nearly perma stab if build for it. Plage and lich also give stab.

Ranger traited signet of hunt is almost a balance stance. They also can use the trait enlargmente. Rampage as one gives stab too.

Ele traited armor of earth is almost 10s stab on 60s cd + passive armor of earth when hp drops 50%. Tornado also gives stab.

Like you said what is used and unused may change. So I don’t think is a good idea to ignore stab from classes other than guard and war and say that they don’t exist.

Flyphish.6398:

I strongly applaud the change. Anything that hurts blobs is good for the game.

Maybe folks will strive to be more than casuals and fully learn their professions…nah, better to get red in the face complaining than adapt.

Are you serious? The blob is going to be the one who stunlocks their smaller opponents.

xDudisx.5914:

coglin.1867:

xDudisx.5914:

Coyote.7031:

xDudisx.5914:

Actually you are wrong, every profession has at least 1 source of stability. If it is used or not is another discussion.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

Thief only has dagger storm though. And that’s an elite and a situational one at that, I don’t think most builds use it. And mesmers have a mantra, but I don’t think many mesmers run mantras except for maybe the condition removal one. Some professions have way better access to stability.

My necro for example has her elite, her well, and when in WvW she’s traited for stability in death shroud. So much stability from just one profession.

Like I said I was not discussing if it used or not. Just saying that all classes have 1 or more sources of stab.

What is used and unused may change after the patch that adjust stability, and what ever else changes go in that patch that have not been mentioned.

To clarify, I wasn’t speaking to access to stability in general. I was referring to stability in comparison to that of the warrior or the guardian. The link provided has skills on that wiki page that literally give 1s of stability on a 50s cool down in some cases. If I had to guess, it was more of comment based on my wording, rather then to be helpful to the discussion, I am unclear how that declaration was intended to help the discussion.

The point is to prevent people to believe that not all classes can have stability. Not only guard and warrior are affected by stab changes.

Engi for example can trait elixir B to have almost same stab uptime as stand your ground.

Traited necro can have nearly perma stab if build for it. Plage and lich also give stab.

Ranger traited signet of hunt is almost a balance stance. They also can use the trait enlargmente. Rampage as one gives stab too.

Ele traited armor of earth is almost 10s stab on 60s cd + passive armor of earth when hp drops 50%. Tornado also gives stab.

Like you said what is used and unused may change. So I don’t think is a good idea to ignore stab from classes other than guard and war and say that they don’t exist.

Lol giving necros foot in the grave and reduced shroud cool down takes away the entire reason he’s on the raid for zergbusting. If you take foot in the grave you lose death perception which is too insane of a trait not to take. Secondly in order to make use of those two traits you need to do what is called shroud flashing, meaning you and enter and immediately exit shroud to get the 50% stability uptime meaning you completely lock the necros out of lifeblast. Putting those two together you’ve left your necros with no dps. Not to mention they are playing a dangerous game with consistently locking themselves out of their emergency damage mitigation. Lastly with the stability stacking intensity change, foot in the grave will most likely only give one stack.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Flyphish.6398:

I strongly applaud the change. Anything that hurts blobs is good for the game.

Maybe folks will strive to be more than casuals and fully learn their professions…nah, better to get red in the face complaining than adapt.

Are you serious? The blob is going to be the one who stunlocks their smaller opponents.

If you call a group within your group a “hammer train” or “front line”, then I call you a blob. Maybe my definition is too strict…

Blobber arguing about how their slightly smaller blob defeated the larger blob using pro stability rotations is a pot meet kettle situation.

It’s a good change.

FINALLY

maybe, just maybe, it will end the “melee train bullkitten”

does the present meta needs skill? well yes it does to certain amount but to me it was always so kittening boring – bait enemy spike, pop boons, go in and spike, get out for regroup when your stab is not up, rins and repeat … yes there is a lot of small play for every class but the main strategy is so dull … hopefully we will see a change

Jim Hunter.6821:

Yup but when the change goes through and ranged combat becomes the new meta everyone can stack on the ground target pulsing skills and pew pew each other without moving. As long as you have the bigger group you will win!

NO!!!!!! I remember before there were target limits on aoe and boons in WvW… They fixed that for a reason…

If WvW combat reverts back to this I am done.

Zetsumei.4975:

Lol giving necros foot in the grave and reduced shroud cool down takes away the entire reason he’s on the raid for zergbusting. If you take foot in the grave you lose death perception which is too insane of a trait not to take. Secondly in order to make use of those two traits you need to do what is called shroud flashing, meaning you and enter and immediately exit shroud to get the 50% stability uptime meaning you completely lock the necros out of lifeblast. Putting those two together you’ve left your necros with no dps. Not to mention they are playing a dangerous game with consistently locking themselves out of their emergency damage mitigation. Lastly with the stability stacking intensity change, foot in the grave will most likely only give one stack.

Not if you spec for fury (win some in regular form, loose some in ds).

But anyway, I wouldnt worry about that. Since Anet will no doubt mess up the stack balance, boon removal classes (like the necro) will probably be replaced by better stun cc classes to simply burn through stability stacks in one push

All melee train hammer warriors, gogogo lol.

This change is a recipe for disaster. Instead of nice melee fights we will see necro spamming their aoes from max range now. So much skill and fun.

I enjoy front line play and larger group play as a whole, Sorel, and I am absolutely for the changes.

Right now it is easy to put 2 guards per party and just rotate stab. Most boon removal skills are single target. The ones that are not are obvious pulsing aoe that in most cases won’t even remove stab because rng and people just steping outside ot the circle.

This makes the hammer trait basically imune to cc. People are already immune to condis due to -40% food + hoelbrak + purging flames + shouts+ warhorn converting. This makes the entire zerg fight about spike direct dmg and just walk away of the spike dmg.

Stability change will at least remove the immune to cc status that the blob has right now. Creating more place for use of strategy.

I don’t know how these changes will effect WvW or Roaming or PVP. Will it make it worse or better for skilled Guilds who use Team Speak and build teams to try take out higher numbers? No idea.

What I do know is this games called Guild Wars 2. Not Zerg Wars or Whoever has greatest numbers lolwins.

Guild VS Guild battles should be encouraged. Skilled Guild play should be encouraged. Skilled hard working Guilds who work together knowing how to build classes specifically for their WvW group while using Teamspeak and timing their abilities perfectly should beat a disorganised larger group of players even at a 2 to 1 ratio. It’s that kind of gameplay that helps keep GW2 fun and reduce the boredom that comes with other repetitive end game content.

If people want skill, team work, organisation and guilds to lose in WvW or be discouraged your asking for GW2 to die. Player retention will drop as Zerg play is repetitive, dull and burns people out.

It’s like doing them daily world boss events where we are all sat there spamming skills like a bunch of zombies for our daily loot injection. It’s stupid, dull and redundant. They may as well leave chests in them locations for players to loot every 24 hours as there no risk or gameplay. The same will apply to WvW if a Skilled Guild can’t beat a disorganised zerg. It will dumb down the game to show up and win. Who really wants WvW to be LOLzerg wins every time. Where exactly is the fun in that?

Remember this game is called Guild Wars. I hope whatever changes they make the devs remember that.

Edit: One thing I will say though is skilled Guild Vs Guild gameplay should not rely on any one class or skill or ability. If there is a massive reliance on Stab or Guards or whatever that needs to change so that any Guild of skilled professions can beat a disorganised larger group. There should not be “We need X profession for skilled Guild play” There needs to be more options there.

@ Victuswolf.5286
There a lot to go over with what you said.

A GvG is any time when a guild of one team fight another guild of another team in any pvp format so even zerg vs zerg is a type or at least can be a type of GvG.

Wvw IS about larges scale battles and you could say its made for zerg vs zerg (in a lot of ppl eyes any thing over 5 vs 5 is a zerg vs zerg).

Size dose not changes if there is team work or not its harder to have “good” team work the bigger the group but that dose not mean there is non going on.

GW is named for the guild war that happened before GW1 where the human groups fought agents other humans groups. The ideal of GvG in GW1 was on the lines of 8 vs 8 a lot like our spvp. WvW can never have a true GvG formant becuse WvW is made to be an open pvp zone.

Any way over all stab changes will make it over all harder for big groups to keep 100% stab up time its going to add a lot more skill play for the groups who need to rotate stab changes. At the same time it will reward groups who can faint out bombs or who can not get tricked by such faints and concentrates there cc on to a group. Yes one line will remove 1 stack of stab from every one who goes though it but if its just one line with no other cc right on it such as having 3-5 lines in the same places ppl will simply walk over it and restab as needed with out missing a beat.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jski.6180:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jski.6180:

Zetsumei.4975:

Jski.6180:

I did not realize this but persisting ground aoe stab effects maybe the strongest version of stab for wvw so necro well of power may become very good soon. Image one of the worst stab classes will be getting a lot better at self stab and stab support.

Well of power only gives the user stability and it doesn’t pulse stability it gives you in once and it’s only 1 second long

Awww well i guess its still good for the necro.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Yup but when the change goes through and ranged combat becomes the new meta everyone can stack on the ground target pulsing skills and pew pew each other without moving. As long as you have the bigger group you will win!

Until the thfs dive on the back line we can get some real gank or when the full hammer tran appears from being mass stealth from vail or even portal bomb 2 prong attk. Remember the meta is having mass number of guardians because stab is so op and unstoppable.

nope that’s the old meta, we are moving on to the ranged meta. Now bow before your ranger overlords!

Ya if your going to single target and kill a zerg one at a time….. Your never going to even full down ppl. But even if its the way you say the hard counter to rang meta is gank meta.

You doubt the power of the bow!? You are lucky we are merciful overlords, your death will be a swift one.

Assuming you’ve traited for Read the Wind. Otherwise the death is more meandering.

I think people are underestimating blobs. The aoe limit is FIVE people afterall. The backline will just get larger and consist of more eles all dropping static and unsteady ground. With one ele you remove at least 2 with static and at least one with UG. Get at least 5 eles in your zerg and thats 15 stacks of stab gone, just like that. Realistically, there will be way more eles than that so GG. Oh kitten! I forgot necros! If you aren’t stacking boons your stab will get ripped and even fear you!

Hey I bet ya’ll remember what wvw was like before stability right? I do.

EDIT:
Here’s a devy post clarifying the upcoming change if you missed it:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stability-Change-Clarification

blakdoxa.7520:

I think people are underestimating blobs. The aoe limit is FIVE people afterall. The backline will just get larger and consist of more eles all dropping static and unsteady ground. With one ele you remove at least 2 with static and at least one with UG. Get at least 5 eles in your zerg and thats 15 stacks of stab gone, just like that. Realistically, there will be way more eles than that so GG. Oh kitten! I forgot necros! If you aren’t stacking boons your stab will get ripped and even fear you!

You are making some solidly blind speculation here, well everyone is really. Everything else may change completely once we have professional specializations, and the changes they bring.

coglin.1867:

blakdoxa.7520:

I think people are underestimating blobs. The aoe limit is FIVE people afterall. The backline will just get larger and consist of more eles all dropping static and unsteady ground. With one ele you remove at least 2 with static and at least one with UG. Get at least 5 eles in your zerg and thats 15 stacks of stab gone, just like that. Realistically, there will be way more eles than that so GG. Oh kitten! I forgot necros! If you aren’t stacking boons your stab will get ripped and even fear you!

You are making some solidly blind speculation here, well everyone is really. Everything else may change completely once we have professional specializations, and the changes they bring.

Most people are looking to the precedents anet has set when it comes to balancing… The concerns are very real. I’m playing a guard and I definitely don’t want to camp hammer/staff for the next 6 months once the change occurs. I do understand your point though. With the new specializations maybe guardian can get a bow! I mean… I don’t want wvw to turn into a completely ranged fight…

Anywho, this circus will keep rollin’ till anet unseals their gums for Pete’s sake…

Jski.6180:

@ Victuswolf.5286
There a lot to go over with what you said.

A GvG is any time when a guild of one team fight another guild of another team in any pvp format so even zerg vs zerg is a type or at least can be a type of GvG.

Wvw IS about larges scale battles and you could say its made for zerg vs zerg (in a lot of ppl eyes any thing over 5 vs 5 is a zerg vs zerg).

Size dose not changes if there is team work or not its harder to have “good” team work the bigger the group but that dose not mean there is non going on.

GW is named for the guild war that happened before GW1 where the human groups fought agents other humans groups. The ideal of GvG in GW1 was on the lines of 8 vs 8 a lot like our spvp. WvW can never have a true GvG formant becuse WvW is made to be an open pvp zone.

Any way over all stab changes will make it over all harder for big groups to keep 100% stab up time its going to add a lot more skill play for the groups who need to rotate stab changes. At the same time it will reward groups who can faint out bombs or who can not get tricked by such faints and concentrates there cc on to a group. Yes one line will remove 1 stack of stab from every one who goes though it but if its just one line with no other cc right on it such as having 3-5 lines in the same places ppl will simply walk over it and restab as needed with out missing a beat.

Lol it wont hurt big groups anymore than being in a big, unorganized blob does now… They are not able to coordinate stability anyway. It will hurt lone individual players that is being focused by the enemy.

Maybe remove stability. It’s kind of useless boon anyways if you know how to play.

Junkpile.7439:

Maybe remove stability. It’s kind of useless boon anyways if you know how to play.

Nice thing to say if you play the backline, otherwise carrying trip-stunbreakers won’t save your hide.

Seriously, there should be more discussion about the potential repercussions of this change… Get ready for the new CC/Immob meta.

zinkz.7045:

Good, stability is OP in zergs, having perma stability (or near to it) is a joke, it negates what should be one of the most powerful things in a PvP format – hard CC.

As for boon stripping, yeah right, the only boon stripping that works against competent groups (and when I say competent I mean rolling your face across the keyboard rotating stability/boons and not standing in wells you know too long – cos that is leet skillz), is focusing individuals like the ‘driver’ with corrupt boon.

Stripping boons in the group context is a joke, stability is last in the order for well of corruption if I remember correctly, most of the time there are 4+ boons over that stability, most of the boon stripping skills in this game are not even used in zergs because they are not suitable or on classes that don’t exist in large groups (thief sword 3, engy mines, etc), meanwhile the amount of boon generation in a melee ball scales to silly levels with guards everywhere.

As for the crying of guards, really? Go look at the class balance of WvW/GvG over the last 2 years, 4 classes have made up the vast majority of zergs/guilds, with 2 classes barely existing and two more not existing at all, where were your posts complaining about the plight of ranger or engy, and now you want sympathy, because the class that has been the most common in WvW for 2 years is getting a well deserved hit, lol.

I agree, guards crying is a joke. Time to let classes with CC abilities shine.

Dawdler.8521:

Lol it wont hurt big groups anymore than being in a big, unorganized blob does now… They are not able to coordinate stability anyway. It will hurt lone individual players that is being focused by the enemy.

So wait is the unorganized blob coordinated or not? Because your saying its unorganized but they are able to focused down ppl you cant say that and still hold to an ideal of logic.

Rome.7124:

I agree, guards crying is a joke. Time to let classes with CC abilities shine.

That and guards have the best hard cc in the game for this update Staff/hammer guards are going to be able to lock ppl up with there lines. I think JI into ring of warding is going to be a powerful starting bomb vs back line (most caster run long cd stab and will need to pop a full stab just to deal with one line.)