Guild Wars 2

Didn’t see anything on the front page about this, but has anyone else noticed that zergs are running around with 1+ minute of every boon on them thanks to the latest patch with mezmers?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3nz798/resistance_and_quickness_stacking_in_gw2/

Not cool. Not fun. Hopefully Anet does something about this soon.

maybe they’ll give it the ranger treatment and cap boons at 2 seconds and might at 3 stacks.

It doesn’t matter how long the duration is stacked, because you can counter it with boon striping and worse for them that you can and will use skills that convert them to conditions. It is a non issue in my experience and my opinion.

coglin.1867:

It doesn’t matter how long the duration is stacked, because you can counter it with boon striping and worse for them that you can and will use skills that convert them to conditions. It is a non issue in my experience and my opinion.

It was a big enough issue that they nerfed rangers in less than 24 hours….

Puck.9612:

coglin.1867:

It doesn’t matter how long the duration is stacked, because you can counter it with boon striping and worse for them that you can and will use skills that convert them to conditions. It is a non issue in my experience and my opinion.

It was a big enough issue that they nerfed rangers in less than 24 hours….

That’s nice. it has absolutely nothing to do with this topic though, so I am not entirely sure where your going with that. One skill stacking an multiple buffs for an unreasonable duration has absolutely nothing to do with a group stacking buffs from stack blasting skills and stacking utility skill buffs.

Welcome to HoT balance. Just wait two weeks and run a Druid with that zerg…sure way to get dev attention / nerf you seek.

Just wait until we get herald revenants passively granting people around them buffs all day

Tempest will also be able to boon share in HoT.

Exciton.8942:

Tempest will also be able to boon share in HoT.

Wasn’t that changed to only might?

ANet should use a non-linear function to calculate stacks. Having diminishing return will solve a lot of balance issues.

apharma.3741:

Exciton.8942:

Tempest will also be able to boon share in HoT.

Wasn’t that changed to only might?

Really? Didn’t know. I only played the aura d/f tempest build duration beta. Didn’t even try warhorn.

Just checked wiki. It is still showing as ‘spread boons to allies’ not ‘spread might to allies’.

Exciton.8942:

apharma.3741:

Exciton.8942:

Tempest will also be able to boon share in HoT.

Wasn’t that changed to only might?

Really? Didn’t know. I only played the aura d/f tempest build duration beta. Didn’t even try warhorn.

Just checked wiki. It is still showing as ‘spread boons to allies’ not ‘spread might to allies’.

Yeah Karl I think it was said that he was changing it to only might for BWE3 but I have no compelling reason to bother with tempest while the dev team misses the ball that badly on it. So I didn’t check, I think most of the threads were removed so you can’t even check it sadly. We’ll see in 2 weeks.

Put a stack limit on buffs, not a difficult or unheard of solution, hell even swiftness is capped. If they cant understand why perma quickness is a problem they need to be thrown out of the balancing dept.

there is a already a stack limit on buffs

I meant rework them quickness should never be allowed to be maintained permanently, when you can get over a minute of it, its obvious the stack limit needs to be lowered

or just wen converting boons to conditions keep em stacks: 1 min quickness to 1 min slow – have fun

Using the just convert/remove the boons argument is irrelevant, not every profession has this kind of skill access. Allowing the stacking of boons that are to powerful to a permanent extent pose an essential and potentially game breaking problem. And could potentially undermine all the hard work they are putting into all the new content.

X T D.6458:

Using the just convert/remove the boons argument is irrelevant, not every profession has this kind of skill access.

so ur talking about 1vs1 (this game is and will never be balanced 1 vs 1) ? coz else its a setup problem i cant for example demand a group of 30 thieves to kill every 30 man group in wvw or even have a decent chance.
also stability was too strong before they changed it – now ppl in wvw stand a long time of the fight on max range and spamm the space in between em coz there r too many CC’s (VERY dynamic fight) I actually dont see a problem in a warrior with perma quickness siting 2k units away in the grass staring at me and dying once he tries to get close. IMO current state of Stability Vs. CC is a larger problem then Quickness when it comes to team fights.

MUDse.7623:

so ur talking about 1vs1 (this game is and will never be balanced 1 vs 1)

It has been pretty balanced 1 vs 1 and I have yet to see a red post or anything in which anet says that they will never balance based on 1 vs 1 s.
Even if they balance around 5 vs 5 they indirectly balance 1 vs 1 as people are fighting on points and the classes in the groups change.

Edit: I think the only thing that really is hard to balance is zergs – and I probablyy wouldn’t bother with that anyway as the players will figure that out themselves. What you can do as a developer though is to reduce the max of buffs, like the OP suggested.

for a true 1 vs 1 balance everyone would have same traits and same weapons. take a ghost thief vs power shatter mesmer. a 1 vs 1 balance IMO is when every build has a fair chance vs every other. or i want a button for build + equip change at least while out of combat so when i see an enemy aproaching i can flip my build according to his class/weapons/buffood/ previous fights ( n still this would just end up in mindgaming and not 1 vs 1 balance )

i also dont get why ur fighting ‘on points’ in wvw ..ofc in them circles of lordrooms u might do so but thats mostly after the real fights when then attacking team won or previous to fights when the defending once come late.

MUDse.7623:

for a true 1 vs 1 balance everyone would have same traits and same weapons.

No. That would just be for lazy people, developers and players.

take a ghost thief vs power shatter mesmer. a 1 vs 1 balance IMO is when every build has a fair chance vs every other.

Yes, that would be balance. Doesn’t mean there isn’t extremes and both of what you’ve mentioned currently are since there is no real balance since June. And the Ghost thief is an extreme anyway but the reason why that works is the rune not the thief traits.

MUDse.7623:

or i want a button for build + equip change at least while out of combat so when i see an enemy aproaching i can flip my build according to his class/weapons/buffood/ previous fights ( n still this would just end up in mindgaming and not 1 vs 1 balance )

I don’t get your point to be honest; if this game were balanced you wouldn’t have to change your build before entering combat. With the 14 point system there were “useless” builds which didn’t stand a chance against others but that should’ve been evened out by the 3 traitlines system – just that it isn’t balanced yet.

MUDse.7623:

i also dont get why ur fighting ‘on points’ in wvw ..ofc in them circles of lordrooms u might do so but thats mostly after the real fights when then attacking team won or previous to fights when the defending once come late.

Never took a camp?
I spoke of pvp though (5 vs 5 and “anet balances around pvp”).

Btw: My point was that I’d like to see some proof for the claim that anet doesn’t intend to balance around 1 vs 1.

Edit: spelling

i dont need to proof u what anet minds , there is just no real 1 vs 1 content that is created by anet so a balance around 1 vs 1 would be stupid as it would also have an effect on other situations like pve oder conquest pvp. they can make a 1 vs 1 balance if they add a duel content but only if the changes for that only affect that content. gimme a reason why anet should be putting 1vs1 balance above group balance ?

IMO balance is not the theoretical possibility to kill any other build but to have a fair chance with ur build vs most other builds if they r played by a decent player. maybe i got to add that build is for me not just trait but also equip,utility,runes,sigils in wvw also food so there is still room for useless builds.

and yes ur right i dont need a button to switch my build if i had a chance with my build vs all other builds. but as u have admitted urself there is no current balance so i want a button to seitch my build or maybe even class pre fight.

oh and for the camps i took over 9k camps alot with ppl inside but compare a camp circle size to a pvp circle size ( not just the middle one in foefire ) that circle size has a huge effect on how u can play there. in pvp u can cover the small circles very easy with some aoe – not in a camp also the npcs in a camp have a huge impact on the outcome of the fight.

Jana I think you’re missing the point about ghost thief. Nerf thief pls.

Ok joking aside, ANet were very quick to fix the self buff stacking of rangers as it was overpowered in a single person scenario. It seems ANet do and don’t balance around 1v1 in that they try to discourage that kind of scenario which could certainly be very powerful in 1v1. It seems they want that kind of power to be from team scenarios where multiple people work together to get that situation.

P.S. How’re you finding the matchup as a solo DD roamer?

But but guis, this is needed for the new map !

#Newmapnewexcuseforeverything

Soon these perma boon groups will also be invisible.

It’s gonna be FUN guys!

apharma.3741:

Jana I think you’re missing the point about ghost thief. Nerf thief pls.

Ok joking aside, ANet were very quick to fix the self buff stacking of rangers as it was overpowered in a single person scenario. It seems ANet do and don’t balance around 1v1 in that they try to discourage that kind of scenario which could certainly be very powerful in 1v1. It seems they want that kind of power to be from team scenarios where multiple people work together to get that situation.

P.S. How’re you finding the matchup as a solo DD roamer?

Trapper thief is no real build but it depends on a rune. It is possible because of thief traits, yes, but if you balance thief around the rune then every thief who doesn’t take that rune is at a disadvantage.

What does the ever “they nerfed rangers within 24 hours cry!!” argument has to do with anything?
You think that anet doesn’t balance around 1 vs 1 and maybe they’re not exactly balancing around 1 vs 1 but: even if you take pvp so a group of 5 vs a group of 5. You have ever changing classes in these groups. And most of them fight 1 vs 1 at some point. So that is 1 vs 1 balance. If even indirectly. But I have no idea how anet balances everything that’s why I asked where you guys read how they are balancing.

I’m solo roaming since 1,5 years now and before June I had good chances to defeat every class and every build. The toughest were medi guard and no matter what engi. So for me there already was balance (once.. upon a time). I never agreed with how condis were buffed with the introduction of ferocity though.

Ty, I’m doing fine.

Jana.6831:

apharma.3741:

Jana I think you’re missing the point about ghost thief. Nerf thief pls.

Ok joking aside, ANet were very quick to fix the self buff stacking of rangers as it was overpowered in a single person scenario. It seems ANet do and don’t balance around 1v1 in that they try to discourage that kind of scenario which could certainly be very powerful in 1v1. It seems they want that kind of power to be from team scenarios where multiple people work together to get that situation.

P.S. How’re you finding the matchup as a solo DD roamer?

Trapper thief is no real build but it depends on a rune. It is possible because of thief traits, yes, but if you balance thief around the rune then every thief who doesn’t take that rune is at a disadvantage.

What does the ever “they nerfed rangers within 24 hours cry!!” argument has to do with anything?
You think that anet doesn’t balance around 1 vs 1 and maybe they’re not exactly balancing around 1 vs 1 but: even if you take pvp so a group of 5 vs a group of 5. You have ever changing classes in these groups. And most of them fight 1 vs 1 at some point. So that is 1 vs 1 balance. If even indirectly. But I have no idea how anet balances everything that’s why I asked where you guys read how they are balancing.

I’m solo roaming since 1,5 years now and before June I had good chances to defeat every class and every build. The toughest were medi guard and no matter what engi. So for me there already was balance (once.. upon a time). I never agreed with how condis were buffed with the introduction of ferocity though.

Ty, I’m doing fine.

I was joking about thief btw.

As for the ranger, I was getting at the combination of extending and generating some of the most powerful in combat boons is something they don’t want classes to do solo without a high investment (leaving them largely harmless) for the most part. In that regard I feel they softly balance 1v1 as they try to make sure you don’t get obscenely powerful combinations in PvP. The wrench appears when you remove the point cap mechanics and there becomes no penalty to stealthing/obscene running away.

Nice to know the roaming fun hasn’t been completely blobbed/ktrained out of you and no-one likes medi guards, hate em on thief, mesmer and pretty much any burst power spec.

Boon sharing is very powerful and rev’s passive +50% to out going boons is going to comply flip balancing on its head once HoT comes out.

Might help if they removed the 5 target limit for AoE skills, disencourage stacking…didn’t they do that once by accident?

Just curious,but how on earth u can balance game based on 5v5?And what if ppl dont really pvp?Which classes and what builds “gear/weps/traits” should they have.I dont understand this balance is not about 1v1.Where from you peeps got this?So many questions…

coglin.1867:

Puck.9612:

coglin.1867:

It doesn’t matter how long the duration is stacked, because you can counter it with boon striping and worse for them that you can and will use skills that convert them to conditions. It is a non issue in my experience and my opinion.

It was a big enough issue that they nerfed rangers in less than 24 hours….

That’s nice. it has absolutely nothing to do with this topic though, so I am not entirely sure where your going with that. One skill stacking an multiple buffs for an unreasonable duration has absolutely nothing to do with a group stacking buffs from stack blasting skills and stacking utility skill buffs.

Are you sure you understand the comparison?

Ranger: HaO mirrors buffs on the ranger to the pet and vise-versa. This allowed some buffs to double in duration if they applied to both the ranger and the pet (like quickness from QZ, or buffs resulting from warhorn). If the duration of the boon was longer than the cooldown of HaO, the ranger could have a perma boon. This was really only practical for swiftness and regen which we could do even before the HaO buff. Fury and 3-might could be added with warhorn, but the weapon wasn’t viable enough even for perma fury. With a bunch of outside help, perma of any boon was possible. When solo, it was not really a problem. When grouped, it was huge problem because the ranger could have perma all buffs.

Mesmer: Signet of Inspiration mirrors buffs on the mesmer to everyone else. With Illusionary Inspiration, this can be done an extra time. When alone, this makes it possible for the mesmer to get some weaker perma buffs or extend the duration of powerful buffs like quickness, just like the ranger. With a bunch of outside help, it becomes possible to permanently buff the whole raid with buffs that are not normally stackable to that level.

They are the same thing, except the mesmers can perma-buff the entire zerg with quickness with some outside help, while the rangers could only perma buff themselves with quickness in the same scenario…

rangers got nerfed in 24hrs or less. and not a “hey lets make this useful but balanced”, but rather “you can now only copy stuff for a duration so small you can’t even notice”.

Raven.9603:

They are the same thing, except the mesmers can perma-buff the entire zerg with quickness with some outside help, while the rangers could only perma buff themselves with quickness in the same scenario…

You answered your own “question”, I hope you noticed that.

X T D.6458:

Using the just convert/remove the boons argument is irrelevant, not every profession has this kind of skill access. Allowing the stacking of boons that are to powerful to a permanent extent pose an essential and potentially game breaking problem. And could potentially undermine all the hard work they are putting into all the new content.

Meh, it’s just like guard stacks, stacking weapons, and steroids in baseball. As long as everyone has access to it, it’s not a big deal.

Also not every profession has stealth, water fields, or decent blast finishers, that doesn’t mean the tactic is not valid. Rely on a teammate to convert or strip their boons, and you’re all set.

Jana.6831:

Raven.9603:

They are the same thing, except the mesmers can perma-buff the entire zerg with quickness with some outside help, while the rangers could only perma buff themselves with quickness in the same scenario…

You answered your own “question”, I hope you noticed that.

I wasn’t answering my own question, I asked if he really understood the comparison, then laid out what he seems to be overlooking. Just because the skills are slightly different doesnt make the comparison irrelevant.

Hopefully you’re reading what you quoted as:
’ Rangers could only perma buff themselves with quickness with outside help (the “same scenario” in which mesmers would also be able to do so). ’ Both were pretty okay by themselves. Both were OP grouped. One is gamebreakingly OP because it effects an entire group, but thats not the one that gets slapped with the hotfix in less than 24 hours.

Raven.9603:

Both were OP grouped. One is gamebreakingly OP because it effects an entire group, but thats not the one that gets slapped with the hotfix in less than 24 hours.

This is the main reason Rangers were upset with the change, they new a nerf was coming but so soon when any other class get’s it till the next update (normally 2 weeks) was just kinda rude.

RE:Ranger comparisons

It is not a single mesmer doing the buffs the thread is talking about. If it is a single mesmer, it’s basic crap boons that zergs get permanently anyway. any juicey boons duration is pretty paltry with iffy uptime.

If you want the JUICE that is being complained about, aka perma quickness/resistance to a large portion of your zerg, there’s 2 or more mesmers. This is what is being complained about because 7 eles with perma quickness is what’s going to kitten your world up, not a bunch of regen/prot/swiftness