Guild Wars 2

Killing an NPC grants 1 stack of bloodlust sigil, killing a player grants 5.
Why not also grant 5 stacks for each successfully ressed player? Would maybe make ressing for few people more attractive than just letting teammates die. (Talking about a pugblob now).

Couldn’t this be a thing?

Can be exploited using neutral monsters/guards/fall damage to stack stats – basically creating a sigil that permanently increases your chosen stat with no actual game-mode effort.

These sigils can be exploited either way. That won’t change if the stacks per ress are increased to 5 and you know it.

Turk.5460:

Can be exploited using neutral monsters/guards/fall damage to stack stats – basically creating a sigil that permanently increases your chosen stat with no actual game-mode effort.

You can also farm NPCs in WvW to get bloodlust stacks. If you would be able to read my text again, I mentioned it should be the same like kills: 1 for NPC, 5 for players.

Aury.1367:

You can also farm NPCs in WvW to get bloodlust stacks. If you would be able to read my text again, I mentioned it should be the same like kills: 1 for NPC, 5 for players.

If you would be able to read your own text again, it in fact, does not mention that.

Aury.1367:

Killing an NPC grants 1 stack of bloodlust sigil, killing a player grants 5.
Why not also grant 5 stacks for each successfully ressed player? Would maybe make ressing for few people more attractive than just letting teammates die. (Talking about a pugblob now).

Couldn’t this be a thing?

I can think of no better way to feed my Bloodlust than to save a life… oh wait.

Aury.1367:

Killing an NPC grants 1 stack of bloodlust sigil, killing a player grants 5.
Why not also grant 5 stacks for each successfully ressed player? Would maybe make ressing for few people more attractive than just letting teammates die. (Talking about a pugblob now).

Couldn’t this be a thing?

Why should ressing people give that? People would get downed on purpose, like setting your house on fire for insurance, just cause it’s profitable. Having downed allies should never be something you can profit on. That’s bad gamedesign.

What do you mean? There are no ressing sigils. Only on kill sigils. You want a sigil designed for badies essentially. It’s like the downed state traits that only badies use. A good guild wouldn’t have much profit of it unless they get downed on purpose. Which is rly stupid design in my opinion.

Timelord.8190:

Aury.1367:

Killing an NPC grants 1 stack of bloodlust sigil, killing a player grants 5.
Why not also grant 5 stacks for each successfully ressed player? Would maybe make ressing for few people more attractive than just letting teammates die. (Talking about a pugblob now).

Couldn’t this be a thing?

Why should ressing people give that? People would get downed on purpose, like setting your house on fire for insurance, just cause it’s profitable. Having downed allies should never be something you can profit on. That’s bad gamedesign.

You get stomped way too fast or damaged down in blobfights or when roaming. Theres no /down command, so most of the situations you go downed, you actually want to stay alive and not grant your friends a stack. Getting 25 stacks by kills are done in like 5 seconds of blobfight.

Timelord.8190:

Aury.1367:

Killing an NPC grants 1 stack of bloodlust sigil, killing a player grants 5.
Why not also grant 5 stacks for each successfully ressed player? Would maybe make ressing for few people more attractive than just letting teammates die. (Talking about a pugblob now).

Couldn’t this be a thing?

Why should ressing people give that? People would get downed on purpose, like setting your house on fire for insurance, just cause it’s profitable. Having downed allies should never be something you can profit on. That’s bad gamedesign.

the people who would go and do that are the ones that also go and kill the neutral mobs outside of every spawn and durning acutall fights they wouldn’t because that would remove any blood lust stacks they would have on them

redwing.9580:

Timelord.8190:

Aury.1367:

Killing an NPC grants 1 stack of bloodlust sigil, killing a player grants 5.
Why not also grant 5 stacks for each successfully ressed player? Would maybe make ressing for few people more attractive than just letting teammates die. (Talking about a pugblob now).

Couldn’t this be a thing?

Why should ressing people give that? People would get downed on purpose, like setting your house on fire for insurance, just cause it’s profitable. Having downed allies should never be something you can profit on. That’s bad gamedesign.

the people who would go and do that are the ones that also go and kill the neutral mobs outside of every spawn and durning acutall fights they wouldn’t because that would remove any blood lust stacks they would have on them

Exactly, plus: Ressing someone in a blobfight for example is way harder than killing one. You drop a AOE inside the other blob and 5 of them will die prolly, viola: 25 stacks. So with ressing it takes much longer. Take minstrel ventari rev for example.

Not if you run banner ress warrior. Ressing sigil is just to stupid. You have to rely on others to be bad in order to stack it, it’s is just silly.

Timelord.8190:

Not if you run banner ress warrior. Ressing sigil is just to stupid. You have to rely on others to be bad in order to stack it, it’s is just silly.

Then let only manual resses count! Its not silly, if people want stacks without killing a player, there are plenty of NPCs around. But people cry when you get stacks through ressing? Ressing doesnt reward you in ANY way.

Given that on-kill stacks are trivial to get on NPCs and mobs, I’m not worried about res stacks being abused. Any abuse case would still be more difficult and take longer than the baseline for on-kill stacks.

Want to find thread that nerfs downed state…..

We were defending veloka last night on CD/Ehrmy/IOJ against an sbi horde. I get a guard kill and almost immediately there’s 1 guy who jumps on him to rez the dead body. Within 2-4 seconds the body is already 45% rez’d, at which point I fire on him and have to KEEEP firing to get the charrr Off the rezing….he finally gets off. Then a ranger jumps in to rez…and i thankfully mange to knock a hit on him and get him in combat (I’m firing from the wall for all of this into the corner area that he died in). The first guy, the charr, is back however, havin had gotten ooc at that point and jumped back on…. I had to man the AC and fire it JUST on a dead body to keep 2-3 guys from rezing him. And then I had to spam the dead body with ac fire to make sure they got incombat before getting close enough to start rezing. Keep in mind theres a large group and ALOt of alive targets to aim the ac at….yet here I am aiming a 50 supply 10silver ac on a dead body I killed, just to keep it dead.

Then in that same siege I kill a thief in the middle of a bunch of em…..WE have aoe and siege fire on the dead body and they just rushed in and bunch on him and instant rezed him in the course of 2-4 seconds. I had to wonder what was even the point in attacking them at all……if we played from JUST a siege perspective they still win due to larger numbers and supply and resources. We lost all our towers and that was that.

Primary problem is OOC abuse. Secondary problem is the healing of dead bodies.
The idea that those 5-15 players who rezed that thief I killed….the idea they all got 5 stacks from such a thing….that just adds insult to injury. I would literally be buffing their entire horde by landing a kill……does that sound right to you? It sounds right based on how this game plays tho……so your idea is gold. Lets do it!

Cerby.1069:

Want to find thread that nerfs downed state…..

We were defending veloka last night on CD/Ehrmy/IOJ against an sbi horde. I get a guard kill and almost immediately there’s 1 guy who jumps on him to rez the dead body. Within 2-4 seconds the body is already 45% rez’d, at which point I fire on him and have to KEEEP firing to get the charrr Off the rezing….he finally gets off. Then a ranger jumps in to rez…and i thankfully mange to knock a hit on him and get him in combat (I’m firing from the wall for all of this into the corner area that he died in). The first guy, the charr, is back however, havin had gotten ooc at that point and jumped back on…. I had to man the AC and fire it JUST on a dead body to keep 2-3 guys from rezing him. And then I had to spam the dead body with ac fire to make sure they got incombat before getting close enough to start rezing. Keep in mind theres a large group and ALOt of alive targets to aim the ac at….yet here I am aiming a 50 supply 10silver ac on a dead body I killed, just to keep it dead.

Then in that same siege I kill a thief in the middle of a bunch of em…..WE have aoe and siege fire on the dead body and they just rushed in and bunch on him and instant rezed him in the course of 2-4 seconds. I had to wonder what was even the point in attacking them at all……if we played from JUST a siege perspective they still win due to larger numbers and supply and resources. We lost all our towers and that was that.

Primary problem is OOC abuse. Secondary problem is the healing of dead bodies.
The idea that those 5-15 players who rezed that thief I killed….the idea they all got 5 stacks from such a thing….that just adds insult to injury. I would literally be buffing their entire horde by landing a kill……does that sound right to you? It sounds right based on how this game plays tho……so your idea is gold. Lets do it!

Hows that any different to 10 people ganking a single player and all getting each 5 stacks? In the kill-case its MUCH faster and easier, and you kinda explained my point yourself: people had to come and go each time to get ONE up. So which one is easier to achieve you think? Pulling out an AoE, regardless of OOC or not, or going OOC each time to get a corpse by 20% HP up? C’mon.

the thing you are failing to realize is the reduction in time needed to get the stacks is the point why there are other non stacking sigils that many choose over stacks. The sigil is meant to have the drawback of losing stats if you go down, its part of its balance.

Don’t like it, then pick a raw stat increase sigil. Its been pointed out that it will be abused and they are 100% correct. It is vastly different having your guys jump off a cliff to give others stacks than it is actually getting the stacks engaging something. To me this just seems like you prefer to run in an oversized group against inferior numbers and cant get your stacks because you don’t know how to tag things.

At the moment, in a pug blob, if you are downed, you are what will kill your teammates if they try to rez you. you are the prime target for epidemics, as you have no resistance buff, so what you are asking for is not to benefit your teammates, but to kill more of them by them being greedy for stacks. Generally in an organized raid, people will help rez you if you aren’t full downed, but its a huge risk if more than one does it. If you want more stacks, bulk up a bit, and dont die. SUPRISE your stacks will build up.

imo the problem with rezzing full downs that was mentioned is a real issue indeed, its multitudes better now that you need to be out of combat to rez, but so many classes can do that at ease in a large fight. Arenanet needs to take it a step further and add a cooldown debuff, that prevents players from rezzing allies for a full minute after being in combat. I’d prefer full down back to spawn guaranteed but its a bit harsh for drivers who were sniped at the beginning of a fight.

Aury.1367:

Hows that any different to 10 people ganking a single player and all getting each 5 stacks? In the kill-case its MUCH faster and easier, and you kinda explained my point yourself: people had to come and go each time to get ONE up. So which one is easier to achieve you think? Pulling out an AoE, regardless of OOC or not, or going OOC each time to get a corpse by 20% HP up? C’mon.

I can appreciate you turning the chessboard around on me, but this is flawed logic based on the fact that winning a game is supposed to reward winners and punish losers. Its not supposed to punish winners and reward losers.

Lets look at this:
First, lets counter ur argument with the loopholes we see in it alrdy:
- 10 players ganking a single player for 5 stacks each. What is the problem with this statement? Assuming reasonably balanced matchups: You do not WIN by fighting everyone with a 10:1 ratio. Infact you are losing if you commit 10 persons to gank a single player. That is a waste of resources and it reflects very poorly on your ppt (you get a single ppk entry for that kill, rather than 10x). So in reality we are giving a consolation prize to the losers by giving 5 stacks to each of them (assuming they r spec’d that way)
-" In the kill-case its MUCH faster and easier, and you kinda explained my point yourself:" agreed, its faster for 10 to kill 1 than 1 to kill 10. But why then are you arguing that both cases should give similar outcomes? That doesn’t seem right.

-"people had to come and go each time to get ONE up. "
Let’s look at that thief I described: People had to come and go to rez the single dead thief I described? They literally spent 6 seconds total (and that’s not an understatement) to walk to the body, rez it, and then be back where they were before he died. So I wasted 6×10 = 60 seconds of the enemy’s time assuming there were 10 of them. Is 60 seconds equal to the time it takes for the enemy to port and walk back from their keep to veloka? Seems a fair assumption as long as they aren’t using 100% movespeed. So I’ll give you a win on that one. HOWEVER, his combat ability is provided to the group immediately after 6 seconds rather than 60 seconds. THAT is the start of a brilliant counter point should anyone ‘need’ to provide one….

-“Pulling out an AoE, regardless of OOC or not, or going OOC each time to get a corpse by 20% HP up? C’mon.”
I don’t fully understand what components you are referencing specifically when you say this, thus there are many ways to interpret this. Are you saying that putting an aoe would prevent rezzing? I don’t have any that can be placed at that range in that situation….and they can be dodge countered, infact I didn’t have any at all that can be placed trap based since its class specific; and I think that is unfair to assume everyone has aoe they can place at range like that from a wall to secure a kill they made.
Next, Going ooc to get a corpse to 20% is a large investement of the enemy’s time, and therefore justifies the present situation? I don’t think that is apt either. Like I said the charr woulda had him up in under 10 seconds total if I didn’t damage and threaten to damage him to the point where he got off. This isn’t like downed state…..you can’t damage a partially revived dead body.

I mean…you “cmon”…you are being very 1-sided in your analysis. You get maybe 1 hit in with that argument, whereas I get in at least 3 if not more. My argument wins unfortunately.

I kill a TON more than I die, and I do it mostly solo. So I am biased in wanting the “killing” part to be more substantial in its impact, and/or possibly easier to perform. Perhaps you are from the opposite camp? Regardless, I admit to being a biased source, but my logic remains stronger than yours….but that’s only because there are meant to be winners/losers in this game based on correct/incorrect action, so its really the game’s fault our arguments aren’t equal (if that makes you feel better).

Cerby.1069:

Aury.1367:

Hows that any different to 10 people ganking a single player and all getting each 5 stacks? In the kill-case its MUCH faster and easier, and you kinda explained my point yourself: people had to come and go each time to get ONE up. So which one is easier to achieve you think? Pulling out an AoE, regardless of OOC or not, or going OOC each time to get a corpse by 20% HP up? C’mon.

I can appreciate you turning the chessboard around on me, but this is flawed logic based on the fact that winning a game is supposed to reward winners and punish losers. Its not supposed to punish winners and reward losers.

Lets look at this:
First, lets counter ur argument with the loopholes we see in it alrdy:
- 10 players ganking a single player for 5 stacks each. What is the problem with this statement? Assuming reasonably balanced matchups: You do not WIN by fighting everyone with a 10:1 ratio. Infact you are losing if you commit 10 persons to gank a single player. That is a waste of resources and it reflects very poorly on your ppt (you get a single ppk entry for that kill, rather than 10x). So in reality we are giving a consolation prize to the losers by giving 5 stacks to each of them (assuming they r spec’d that way)
-" In the kill-case its MUCH faster and easier, and you kinda explained my point yourself:" agreed, its faster for 10 to kill 1 than 1 to kill 10. But why then are you arguing that both cases should give similar outcomes? That doesn’t seem right.

-"people had to come and go each time to get ONE up. "
Let’s look at that thief I described: People had to come and go to rez the single dead thief I described? They literally spent 6 seconds total (and that’s not an understatement) to walk to the body, rez it, and then be back where they were before he died. So I wasted 6×10 = 60 seconds of the enemy’s time assuming there were 10 of them. Is 60 seconds equal to the time it takes for the enemy to port and walk back from their keep to veloka? Seems a fair assumption as long as they aren’t using 100% movespeed. So I’ll give you a win on that one. HOWEVER, his combat ability is provided to the group immediately after 6 seconds rather than 60 seconds. THAT is the start of a brilliant counter point should anyone ‘need’ to provide one….

-“Pulling out an AoE, regardless of OOC or not, or going OOC each time to get a corpse by 20% HP up? C’mon.”
I don’t fully understand what components you are referencing specifically when you say this, thus there are many ways to interpret this. Are you saying that putting an aoe would prevent rezzing? I don’t have any that can be placed at that range in that situation….and they can be dodge countered, infact I didn’t have any at all that can be placed trap based since its class specific; and I think that is unfair to assume everyone has aoe they can place at range like that from a wall to secure a kill they made.
Next, Going ooc to get a corpse to 20% is a large investement of the enemy’s time, and therefore justifies the present situation? I don’t think that is apt either. Like I said the charr woulda had him up in under 10 seconds total if I didn’t damage and threaten to damage him to the point where he got off. This isn’t like downed state…..you can’t damage a partially revived dead body.

I mean…you “cmon”…you are being very 1-sided in your analysis. You get maybe 1 hit in with that argument, whereas I get in at least 3 if not more. My argument wins unfortunately.

I kill a TON more than I die, and I do it mostly solo. So I am biased in wanting the “killing” part to be more substantial in its impact, and/or possibly easier to perform. Perhaps you are from the opposite camp? Regardless, I admit to being a biased source, but my logic remains stronger than yours….but that’s only because there are meant to be winners/losers in this game based on correct/incorrect action, so its really the game’s fault our arguments aren’t equal (if that makes you feel better).

I think you confused it as Reward by being a rallybot, i mean, the person WHO IS RESSING the downed ally should get the 5stacks, Not the rallybot. There could be a restriction to 5 stacks only if you ressed a downed ally NOT DEAD one* otherwise a whole blob gets 5 stacks after a fight if they clean up the ground.

Not everyone is a lonely roamer. Some actually prefer the blob fights. And being a support build doesnt really pay off.

So you were referring to rezing downed players rather than dead players the entire time?

Wouldn’t that be even one sided then? You have to get some1 into downed state….AND finish them to get to get 5 stacks currently.

IF all I have to do is rez them…that is subject to some very insane abuse imo, much more than the kill one is privy to atm. HOt has already introduced tons of things that make the guy who gets revived MORE powerful once he gets up. Its kinda like giving all players the “infuriated” buff we find in many pve bosses when you make progress on them. Infact most zergs use downed state to their advantage already, since it eats up alot of focus fire/bursts/traps that could otherwise be dangerous. They build in such a way where getting downed is a way to buff the entire zerg! That’s just insane imo, and its already been a reality for many many months since hot came. I don’t want to see it encouraged even more.

You can strip your armour and trip on some pve and let it down you, and get the max number of resurrecters to get you up…and they all get 5 stacks…..and u can keep doing this till the whole group is full stacks. Although thats definitely the weaker point of the bunch.

Plus it would be even more punishing when fighting larger groups. Cause all you have to do to empower them is down 1 of them….heck I can see groups letting some of themselves walk into the edges of a/c fire just to buff themselves with such tactics. And it would make ele even more ridiculous with their wind thingy. When defending an objective against a larger force or attacking a zerg with a smaller force you target the weaker members first….generally getting downs is a simply task, securing the kill is the hard part. Although some games would find excessive counterplay and flipping advantages to be “strategic”, I think they should be limited in a gametype ruled by unfair number spam.

Even if we only allow stacks for when they physically get close and PRESS F to heal rather than abilities or kill-rally, my arguments above still don’t change at all.

Being a support build makes your success or failure dependent on others. I’m gonna take a shot in the dark here and say that your opinions on downed state are heavily skewed towards accommodating the failures of the ones you support. The solution then could be found on your own end, by running with better players that can utilize you effectively, or by changing your role from support to something else.

From my point of view supports are OP, mainly due to the mechanics of downed state and how much more powerful 2 people are compared to 1 because of it. Definitely bias on my own end in my argument, but I think your ability to find happiness doesn’t require patches whereas mine does.

Cerby.1069:

So you were referring to rezing downed players rather than dead players the entire time?

Wouldn’t that be even one sided then? You have to get some1 into downed state….AND finish them to get to get 5 stacks currently.

IF all I have to do is rez them…

wtf, thats the same amount of time? Both, the ress and the stomp can get interrupted. So wheres the problem? Just add in a cooldown for ressing the same player in 5min and youre fine.

Stop making this a state affair. I just wanted a way for pure support builds to get stacks. Yes stacks, nothing else. No legendaries, no precursors. Stacks. Gosh.