Guild Wars 2

Just a quick question for everyone. Let’s say that ANet changed outmanned and bloodlust so that outmanned provided stat bonuses and bloodlust provided something else. Let’s also say that the outmanned bonus was 50 points in all stats.

If this were the case, how many additional players would you need to make up for the loss of outmanned.

When answering, this is not just a simple math question based on stat numbers. Take into account that it is another body on the field with skills that can benefit everyone.

My cursory thought is that I would always want to have more players over a stat bonus.

How dare you sir come in this forum suggesting things to ANET that make sense in both theory and application?!

(Their stance would likely be that people would grief other players that they deemed guilty of adding to the group and removing the outmanned buff)

But like you said, the majority would rather have more players than a buff anyway, but the fact remains that the lords in charge do not agree.

How many players do you think you would need to make up for that loss of stat boost?

Well.. Base stats at lvl 80 are 916 for all major stats. A buff of 50 stats to all players will result in 18 players needed to create the effect of a 19th player.
50 * 18

As we know most players do not run with base stats as that would mean running naked. and not every class has the same base stat.
A player in full celestial has 1300 stats. This means you need 25 players to make 26th player.

Losing the bloodlust is equivalent to losing 1/25th of a player. It’s like your one friend with his ranger in your 26 man zerg doesn’t exist.

A stat boost of 150 is different. For that one it takes 8 players to make a 9th player worth of stats. Losing that is like loosing 1/8th of your zerg.

lioka qiao.8734:

Well.. Base stats at lvl 80 are 916 for all major stats. A buff of 50 stats to all players will result in 18 players needed to create the effect of a 19th player.
50 * 18

As we know most players do not run with base stats as that would mean running naked. and not every class has the same base stat.
A player in full celestial has 1300 stats. This means you need 25 players to make 26th player.

Losing the bloodlust is equivalent to losing 1/25th of a player. It’s like your one friend with his ranger in your 26 man zerg doesn’t exist.

A stat boost of 150 is different. For that one it takes 8 players to make a 9th player worth of stats. Losing that is like loosing 1/8th of your zerg.

Definitely get that, but what about the benefit of having a player on your side other than just stats. The extra body, the extra skill,etc. Taking that into account, does it change the answer?

Sepreh.5924:

lioka qiao.8734:

Well.. Base stats at lvl 80 are 916 for all major stats. A buff of 50 stats to all players will result in 18 players needed to create the effect of a 19th player.
50 * 18

As we know most players do not run with base stats as that would mean running naked. and not every class has the same base stat.
A player in full celestial has 1300 stats. This means you need 25 players to make 26th player.

Losing the bloodlust is equivalent to losing 1/25th of a player. It’s like your one friend with his ranger in your 26 man zerg doesn’t exist.

A stat boost of 150 is different. For that one it takes 8 players to make a 9th player worth of stats. Losing that is like loosing 1/8th of your zerg.

Definitely get that, but what about the benefit of having a player on your side other than just stats. The extra body, the extra skill,etc. Taking that into account, does it change the answer?

no, because that extra body could just be a rally bot.

I don’t think it’s going to work,

What happens in a 30vs50 ? will the buff be helpfull to the 30 ppl ?
And what if the other zerg just split up in 2 smaller zergs (50/50, even ) ? let’s say that now you have 5 more ppl than the other zergs, the problem is that you still have the buff.

Imho this will just push ppl to follow only 1 commander at any time.

Sepreh.5924:

lioka qiao.8734:

Well.. Base stats at lvl 80 are 916 for all major stats. A buff of 50 stats to all players will result in 18 players needed to create the effect of a 19th player.
50 * 18

As we know most players do not run with base stats as that would mean running naked. and not every class has the same base stat.
A player in full celestial has 1300 stats. This means you need 25 players to make 26th player.

Losing the bloodlust is equivalent to losing 1/25th of a player. It’s like your one friend with his ranger in your 26 man zerg doesn’t exist.

A stat boost of 150 is different. For that one it takes 8 players to make a 9th player worth of stats. Losing that is like loosing 1/8th of your zerg.

Definitely get that, but what about the benefit of having a player on your side other than just stats. The extra body, the extra skill,etc. Taking that into account, does it change the answer?

Same number of stats distributed on less players is categorically better.

Because
a. Rally mechanic (if you’re down and finished, it’s a negative value)
b. Coordination (always less with more players)
c. Scaling: Skills scale with stats so “extra skills” isn’t valid.
AND stats scale with each other. e.g. high vit + high toughness essentially makes the high vit 200% more effective. High power with high precision/crit makes the high power far more effective.

So the same number of stats distributed on less players is categorically better.

The 50 stat boost is like giving everyone an extra exo celestial trinket. The extra numbers don’t account for extra skill the extra player could have brought. They’re actually quite far from it. A zerg is 13% stronger with the full bloodlust . Their positioning is not 13% better. Their ability to dodge necro wells is not 13% better. Their ability to flash build siege is not 13% better and their ability to move fast is not 13% better.

In my opinion bloodlust is a scape goat for poor tactics and build quality. It’s easy to blame the bloodlust. The Stomp part that awards points is more valuable but does not affect your fight. A server must use better tactics and strategy to win in WvW. Bloodlust is another objective to have but not crucial if you can’t afford it.