Just watched a perma-stealth thief keep 20 people form taking a camp for about a half hour. It appears the trick is to stealth, run in, wait for NPC’s to respawn, run away. And then repeat. This is utterly game-breaking. Stealth needs to prevent a person from counting against capture.
You should look at the forums a bit before posting something, this has been covered. and it isn’t like the thread was buried, its still active.
That being said. it is NOT game breaking. They are just using their class skill of stealth… you can still hurt them when they are in stealth they are not invulnerable… and it isnt like the capture circles are that big.
Arcadius I am going to assume you ethier play a Thief or your main is one and you are defending them here and in my post about this same topic. I was with you greyblue at that point, total bs.
Secondly, Anet needs to respond on the current way Thiefs are, because if they even remotely hint that they are balanced, I am rerolling one.
Also there is a major difference between tactics and indeffiently holding a point with no way of gaining it.
The problem isn’t with the Thief or stealth, the problem is with the rendering.
The thief is supposed to be revealed for a half second in between restealthing, however, the game in its current state does not ’render’ or have the thief appear to the enemy and thus the thief effectively has permanent stealth.
Arcadius I am going to assume you ethier play a Thief or your main is one and you are defending them here and in my post about this same topic. I was with you greyblue at that point, total bs.
Secondly, Anet needs to respond on the current way Thiefs are, because if they even remotely hint that they are balanced, I am rerolling one.
I’m a thief. I’m one of those who is still enjoying the gimmicky pistol whip haste spam (got tired of killing so slowly as pistol/dagger). Thus you’ll hardly see me in stealth abusing the render bug.
How ever. I smile every time I see a thief doing the cloak and dagger trick. I whip out my shortbow. Start spamming clusters which really hurt with my class cannon built. 5 seconds later I see a thief with a downed icon on them. End of thief.
What scares me lately are the glass cannon instant steal+backstab combo thieves and warriors with kill shot. Thankfully they nerfed assassin’s signet, but still easy to be instagibbed by thieves using that combo. The warrior’s 18k kill shot is a pain if they are where you can’t see them and they can see you. Especially with player culling.
A thief who is toying with you with the cloak and dagger hopping should be the least of your worries.
Arcadius I am going to assume you ethier play a Thief or your main is one and you are defending them here and in my post about this same topic. I was with you greyblue at that point, total bs.
Secondly, Anet needs to respond on the current way Thiefs are, because if they even remotely hint that they are balanced, I am rerolling one.
I’m a thief. I’m one of those who is still enjoying the gimmicky pistol whip haste spam (got tired of killing so slowly as pistol/dagger). Thus you’ll hardly see me in stealth abusing the render bug.
How ever. I smile every time I see a thief doing the cloak and dagger trick. I whip out my shortbow. Start spamming clusters which really hurt with my class cannon built. 5 seconds later I see a thief with a downed icon on them. End of thief.
What scares me lately are the glass cannon instant steal+backstab combo thieves and warriors with kill shot. Thankfully they nerfed assassin’s signet, but still easy to be instagibbed by thieves using that combo. The warrior’s 18k kill shot is a pain if they are where you can’t see them and they can see you. Especially with player culling.
A thief who is toying with you with the cloak and dagger hopping should be the least of your worries.
I disagree. Yes I lose quite a bit of damage going CnD stealth but I still put out quite a bit of damage. How? There is a small window at the end of stealth that allows you to backstab and not have the “revealed” debuff. This allows you to backstab and CnD right after~
Peetee, yeah thats what I am saying, they keep saying they have fixed it, but is it? I suggested in the suggestion forums that they just make stealth permanent and give crafters the ability to craft see invisibility potions/food to counter it, because if they can’t obviously fix such a trivial core part of a class, then it is broken.
Azure Power, no one cares about Pistol Whip anymore, that was 3 weeks ago.
Arcadius I am going to assume you ethier play a Thief or your main is one and you are defending them here and in my post about this same topic. I was with you greyblue at that point, total bs.
Secondly, Anet needs to respond on the current way Thiefs are, because if they even remotely hint that they are balanced, I am rerolling one.
I’m a thief. I’m one of those who is still enjoying the gimmicky pistol whip haste spam (got tired of killing so slowly as pistol/dagger). Thus you’ll hardly see me in stealth abusing the render bug.
How ever. I smile every time I see a thief doing the cloak and dagger trick. I whip out my shortbow. Start spamming clusters which really hurt with my class cannon built. 5 seconds later I see a thief with a downed icon on them. End of thief.
What scares me lately are the glass cannon instant steal+backstab combo thieves and warriors with kill shot. Thankfully they nerfed assassin’s signet, but still easy to be instagibbed by thieves using that combo. The warrior’s 18k kill shot is a pain if they are where you can’t see them and they can see you. Especially with player culling.
A thief who is toying with you with the cloak and dagger hopping should be the least of your worries.
I disagree. Yes I lose quite a bit of damage going CnD stealth but I still put out quite a bit of damage. How? There is a small window at the end of stealth that allows you to backstab and not have the “revealed” debuff. This allows you to backstab and CnD right after~
Thieves are pretty OP, there’s no denying this
If the backstab part is true. Then that needs a fix.
Peetee, yeah thats what I am saying, they keep saying they have fixed it, but is it? I suggested in the suggestion forums that they just make stealth permanent and give crafters the ability to craft see invisibility potions/food to counter it, because if they can’t obviously fix such a trivial core part of a class, then it is broken.
Azure Power, no one cares about Pistol Whip anymore, that was 3 weeks ago.
Something we can agree on Tae. make stealth more permanent for a thief but counter with food/pots or a a way to detect a stealthed thief nearby
should we nerf warrior too ?? Kill shot 2 is so OP!!!
we can kill in seconds and we get kill in 2shots too.. we give defence for offence.. u can do it too.. a warrior can do it too but the warrior will still have better defence than a thief.. so shall we nerf all classes so they dont spec glass cannon ? and make sure everyone use a fair spec so no 1 get 2 – 3 shotted to death.
Mjdeathless – Necromancer
Kopiousiudai – Thief
Canadian Pizza – Warrior
No, you can still prevent caps in stealth. Test it again
Well I got different results at the capping supply point north of RED map. Was standing there stealthed, in the middle of the 8 guys there, chaining cloak and dagger for stealth, while hidding near the Water Well which is clearly inside the circle and the guild claim guy spawned on the enemy team.
Guess some points work and others dont?
Will test again with Vid
Maybe I had to leave the circle and re-enter? Not that I am wanting to abuse this, I just want to test. I get killed trying anyway as people know whats up when it happens now and counter accordingly. To test it is a pain
People defending overpowered classes will always claim it’s not overpowered and that others just need to ‘learn to play’.
It’s just the nature of the game.
@waeren, you normally can’t aoe the entire cap circle unless you have a large zerg.
@thieves ITT, I don’t think most people want to nerf your damage, and I certainly don’t. What we want to nerf is the amount of stealth you have. The rendering issues account for 1 or maybe 2 seconds after you break stealth, but the real issue is that you can keep using stealth abilities before I can put enough damage on to down you. I play ranger, and if I ever get into a 1v1 with a thief its usually an automatic gg unless the thief is underleveled.
Take away the Thief stealth and Shadowing ability, and you’ll have free badges. I’m not giving you a free badge.
That’s fine. Leave stealth the way it is. Just modify the flag capture algorithm so that players “under stealth” does not prevent flag capture. That’s how it works in WoW.
{Sanctum of Rall} Since Day -3
Weekend Guardian/Elementalist
No Guild Affiliation
Take away the Thief stealth and Shadowing ability, and you’ll have free badges. I’m not giving you a free badge.
That’s fine. Leave stealth the way it is. Just modify the flag capture algorithm so that players “under stealth” does not prevent flag capture. That’s how it works in WoW.
This isn’t WoW. The only reason Thieves can perma stealth is because of the rendering issue.
@waeren, you normally can’t aoe the entire cap circle unless you have a large zerg.
@thieves ITT, I don’t think most people want to nerf your damage, and I certainly don’t. What we want to nerf is the amount of stealth you have. The rendering issues account for 1 or maybe 2 seconds after you break stealth, but the real issue is that you can keep using stealth abilities before I can put enough damage on to down you. I play ranger, and if I ever get into a 1v1 with a thief its usually an automatic gg unless the thief is underleveled.
The thief gets in stealth by using c&d for which he will have to hit someone. So you don’t need to aoe the circle just need to aoe around the players and you will hit us.
@Crawford
The way it is now, I am the one giving YOU free badges.
If I do manage to survive your initial onslaught, and If I do manage enough damage to get you off of me, all you do is stealth and come right back at me. I don’t know how it could be considered remotely fair if I manage to do these things 4 times in a row and yet still can not down you.
And I never said I wanted Anet to take away stealth abilities. Just make them available less frequently. That’s all.
Stop w/ the thief witch hunt b/c you fellas are getting out played. There are other classes that put thieves to shame….they just don’t have the word “thief”, “assassin”, or “stealth” in their names/descriptions.
the real issue is that you can keep using stealth abilities before I can put enough damage on to down you.
So keep smacking them after they stealth?
The majority of thief kills I get are thieves in stealth. Barring highly defensive stealth-heavy thief builds (not very common), most thieves will die pretty quickly in stealth, especially if you cripple them and let the innate stealth movement speed reduction bring them to a standstill.
As a thief, I’m always confused why people shrug and give up when I stealth at low HP and limp away crippled. Stealth is far from invulnerability, it just means you can’t tab target.
Stop w/ the thief witch hunt b/c you fellas are getting out played. There are other classes that put thieves to shame….they just don’t have the word “thief”, “assassin”, or “stealth” in their names/descriptions.
There are Mesmers and Thieves. Then there is daylight. Then more daylight. Yet more daylight. Then everyone else.
Stack all your people on one spot, aoe, say bye to the thief. Not sure what the big deal is here.
so in order to stop ONE thief we need to bring large numbers of people to cover the capture circles with enough AoE spam to drive them away because they’re invis and are able to prevent the cap?
seems legit.
Serious note, they have it so you cant cap in PvP while stealth. Dont know why that wasnt put into WvW. Bad move Anet.
Mesmer’s and Thiefs are best at Trolling when this happens. Took us 20 mins to Cap it.
Also some one else said that they are cheating here, but i have no idea.
I think you have an issue with the 20 people unable to aoe down an invisible thief.. we had this yesterday it took us about 40 seconds to find and eliminate him with about 20 people.
Kyús – 80 – Guardian// All Classes Level 80
Hand of Blood [HoB]
EU – Aurora Glade
@Tulisin
I know that stealth does not make them invulnerable, but with weapons that have no or limited aoe ability, like the shortbow, its near impossible to hit what you can’t see. The only option I have which I have been using, is when I see a thief getting towards low health, I swap to my warhorn and put the birds on them.
Again, this is just my opinion, but the point of the thief is high burst damage, right? So if I am able to survive a couple assaults from stealth where they take a ton of my health, I should be able to kill them. It should be a high-risk, high-reward class. Right now, it has possibly the lowest risk in the game, at least in WvW.
@Tulisin
I know that stealth does not make them invulnerable, but with weapons that have no or limited aoe ability, like the shortbow, its near impossible to hit what you can’t see. The only option I have which I have been using, is when I see a thief getting towards low health, I swap to my warhorn and put the birds on them.
Again, this is just my opinion, but the point of the thief is high burst damage, right? So if I am able to survive a couple assaults from stealth where they take a ton of my health, I should be able to kill them. It should be a high-risk, high-reward class. Right now, it has possibly the lowest risk in the game, at least in WvW.
I play a thief and I would agree with that we are pretty over powered certainly above the intended curve right now. The thieves that defend this go pure glass and don’t put up with the negative side to their burst potential.
One thing that isn’t true though is the ability to hit us in stealth. The difference between good and bad players for me is their ability to accurately hit me when I stealthed. the bad players just stop when I stealth the good ones get up in my face where i was swinging around shooting single target using any aoe’s they have like poison volley on your shortbow.
saying that I would agree we shouldn’t stop capture in stealth.
Kyús – 80 – Guardian// All Classes Level 80
Hand of Blood [HoB]
EU – Aurora Glade
IM not the one who needs to learn how to play. I tested it. have you? reporting your angry little whine posts
If people posting on forums about concerns/queries they have about a certain class makes you mad the only thing you can do is click report? If you don’t agree with their opinion how about just posting a constructed argument and moving on, no need to cry.
The game needs stealth counters and the game needs graphics issues fixed and the game needs to be changed that when stealthed does not count for/against capping.
Once this is done – it’s possible to look at the high damage and ease of stealthing and see whether there’s still problems.
But those graphics problems are really bringing down WvW fast it seems.
The game needs stealth counters and the game needs graphics issues fixed and the game needs to be changed that when stealthed does not count for/against capping.
Once this is done – it’s possible to look at the high damage and ease of stealthing and see whether there’s still problems.
But those graphics problems are really bringing down WvW fast it seems.
A stealth counter would be nice but it got to be “close to person” type counter. Such as say fire will make a thf visible in stealth if they are with in say 100 yards or what ever the unite is to see them. Idea well if they are on fire they should give off some light but not a full brake or a full every one can see you because that would comply destroy the class and other stealth classes.
Another idea could be having an add effect for some ability to remove stealth like a boon removal but aoe and you got to put points into it.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Actually I’m a stealth Thief too and I get killed a lot when the enemy team figures out what I’m doing. You get blasts of AoE or Warriors swinging their GS in the general vicinity and you die if you don’t move. That’s how it goes. You don’t need to be tagged or rendered to be killed. I like it that way. Makes life more exciting as a stealth build.
I don’t think the stealth build needs to be fixed at all, and the rendering issue isn’t really a problem unless you really haven’t figured out that tagging is unnecessary to kill. Just swing in the direction you think he might be if you’re a melee class, or bunch up and spam AoEs around you if you’re a magic/support class and it’ll keep the thief away from you. If you still stubbornly want to fight us one-on-one and tag us, that’s not our fault.
If 20 people can’t stop one thief, it sounds like a teamwork/communication issue. At least one of you should have figured it out. If even one of them is an experienced WvW/PvPer they’ll know how to stop a stealth thief.
And before you say I don’t know what I’m talking about, yes I have alts and yes I have fought stealth builds in WvW and sPvP. That’s how I learned how to counter my own build in fact. Even stealthy PvE monsters are stopped the same way.
play a thf for 10mins in spvp and u will own them, all you have to do is learn the effects of each ability to know what one they have used and how long. thfs stealth don’t last long few seconds.. all you have to do is when they pop dont stand still but run other way easy way to let them waste stealth. my main is a thf and im good at it, i kill allot in wvw and roam solo.. but then i meet people who know my class and they kill me before i can even bring that red bar down.. its very annoying!! but when i play a alt i can kill any thf on any class i will bet anything on that. the people who are moaning are just pony players who do not even bother to learn a class they can not beat on there main. on thew first few weeks on this game comeing out i spend much time in spvp learning each class and there abiltys. oh and btw a war will own a thf in a duel if the war knows how to play there class that is, does that mean they more op and need a nerf?
Again, this is just my opinion, but the point of the thief is high burst damage, right? So if I am able to survive a couple assaults from stealth where they take a ton of my health, I should be able to kill them. It should be a high-risk, high-reward class. Right now, it has possibly the lowest risk in the game, at least in WvW.
You’re talking about a playstyle here, not a profession. You can play any profession high-risk high-reward by going glass cannon. Thieves can be played any way you want to play them.
The thieves that many people in this thread are having a problem with are actually the exact opposite. Full-defensive/stealth builds that are extremely survivable but unable to do significant damage while maintaining that survivability.
