Guild Wars 2

I know you needed to fix the “stealth off of walls” thing, but right before matching us against a server that blobs us to death? Really? Just let me sneak into hills and not be found. Gimme a break on that front..

Also, why the heck can engies and rangers just spam reveal if there are multiple of them?! Place a cooldown, kitten – stealth was broken, but don’t kill it entirely.

(No ranger hate, I main a ranger [no bearbow] )

The reveal abilites do have a cooldown…

psizone.8437:

stealth was broken

Top !

Made my day, no, my week!

IMHO Anet’s stand is perma stealth is here and its here to stay so i’d suggest a large increase in the duration of the reveal debuff. If the thief is really good he can overcome anything to make his stealth build work but by increasing the duration you raise the risks if or when the thief makes mistakes.

Not as things are, revealed does not need an increase in it’s duration. At the moment it and stealth are not functioning properly (random revealed/loss of stealth sometimes while even showing still in stealth and causing you to get zerged and other odd things, and a rare bug with stealth/reveal both on you but this has only happened to me once and to an enemy player once). After these bugs are fixed perhaps a bit longer revealed might be ok, but it’s rather fine as is. They already lengthened Sic’ Em and I can definitely notice the effects of it, it is a painful few seconds. I agree with the complaint that if you run into a group that has all ranger/engi, and they each take turns using their skills that apply reveal, you are dead unless you either: run which with rangers that is still risky, or play an evasion/non stealth build.

edit: To be honest, though, I’d be more worried about 5 rangers doing rapid fire than about Sic’ Em… I’m worried about 1 since shortbow 3 and dodges do not properly evade it from 1 ranger.

Jeknar.6184:

The reveal abilites do have a cooldown…

If you have multiple engineers and rangers hitting a thief with goggles and sic em, they can keep him revealed for a prolonged period of time. (I meant a cooldown on the debuff, as in “cannot be revealed by enemies for 20 seconds” not a cooldown on the individual abilities)

Jeff.5139:

IMHO Anet’s stand is perma stealth is here and its here to stay so i’d suggest a large increase in the duration of the reveal debuff. If the thief is really good he can overcome anything to make his stealth build work but by increasing the duration you raise the risks if or when the thief makes mistakes.

Not so, they just removed one of the more common ways a thief gains stealth. You can no longer use dagger 5 to gain stealth off of walls and gates. It’s taken a while, but they did finally remove one instance of permastealth.

Well the smart thief would avoid a high concentration of Rangers or Engies. You want to be able to sneak in an enemy keep and stay there indefinitely without being discovered like you “used to be able to do”? As well if Rangers and Engies cannot spam reveal if there are more then one as is your wish then should the same be done for thieves, when there is more then one, so they cannot spam stealth?

Theftwind.8976:

Well the smart thief would avoid a high concentration of Rangers or Engies. You want to be able to sneak in an enemy keep and stay there indefinitely without being discovered like you “used to be able to do”? As well if Rangers and Engies cannot spam reveal if there are more then one as is your wish then should the same be done for thieves, when there is more then one, so they cannot spam stealth?

Even smart thieves can’t evade a 40 man search party forever – the reveal spam just makes it harder to do so.

And yes, I also think thieves shouldn’t be able to spam ‘shadows refuge’ or any other stealth spam if there are multiple thieves, placing a cap on that would be smart, also.

Thieves whining about their nerfs when they’re still out there en masse in WvW trolling as bad as ever.

Also, why the heck can engies and rangers just spam reveal if there are multiple of them?! Place a cooldown, kitten – stealth was broken, but don’t kill it entirely.

(No ranger hate, I main a ranger [no bearbow] )[/quote]

Also why can thieves stealth eachother when there are multiple of them. Put a cooldown on that as well if you want to have a cooldown on reveal like Sic Em.

Offair.2563:

Also why can thieves stealth eachother when there are multiple of them. Put a cooldown on that as well if you want to have a cooldown on reveal like Sic Em.

See:

psizone.8437:

And yes, I also think thieves shouldn’t be able to spam ‘shadows refuge’ or any other stealth spam if there are multiple thieves, placing a cap on that would be smart, also.

Johje Holan.4607:

Thieves whining about their nerfs when they’re still out there en masse in WvW trolling as bad as ever.

The past few days in my matchup I’ve seen many more bearbows and stunwarriors with the bugged golem than thieves. Not that I don’t agree that thieves will always be there trolling en masse, just that they’re not as common whilst other classes have a one hit kill button.

Thieves can still stealth off anything they can damage which includes gates and siege. Only walls were removed and it is VERY justified. They should go back to the original fix where non-creatures could not be used to stealth.

To take this a bit further, stealth should put a player at half speed (mesmers as well). The fact that a thief with a single trait can move faster cloaked than not is stupid. Only game I have EVER played where stealth was an improvement in moving speed.

Straegen.2938:

Thieves can still stealth off anything they can damage which includes gates and siege. Only walls were removed and it is VERY justified. They should go back to the original fix where non-creatures could not be used to stealth.

To take this a bit further, stealth should put a player at half speed (mesmers as well). The fact that a thief with a single trait can move faster cloaked than not is stupid. Only game I have EVER played where stealth was an improvement in moving speed.

Have you heard of a spec called d/d burst? That why there is a trait to increase normal movement speed in stealth.

Stealthing off walls was a bug that was fixed previously and broken multiple times over the last two years. Give it another patch or two and you will probably be able to do it again.

Jeff.5139:

IMHO Anet’s stand is perma stealth is here and its here to stay so i’d suggest a large increase in the duration of the reveal debuff. If the thief is really good he can overcome anything to make his stealth build work but by increasing the duration you raise the risks if or when the thief makes mistakes.

Sounds good to me. A larger uptime on +200 power when revealed.

Sagat.3285:

Straegen.2938:

Thieves can still stealth off anything they can damage which includes gates and siege. Only walls were removed and it is VERY justified. They should go back to the original fix where non-creatures could not be used to stealth.

To take this a bit further, stealth should put a player at half speed (mesmers as well). The fact that a thief with a single trait can move faster cloaked than not is stupid. Only game I have EVER played where stealth was an improvement in moving speed.

Have you heard of a spec called d/d burst? That why there is a trait to increase normal movement speed in stealth.

I don’t use the 50% movement trait on my d/d thief, because I would have to give up far too much to do so. I see it as more useful for the actual trolly ones, or better used by those acting as scouts. I’m not sure how many thieves use it, though, but yeah a good number do seem to with how fast some move. I do advise people that think thieves are just ‘trolls’ or completely ‘op’ to actually play the class and try the different builds (which most refuse to do because it’s ‘cheese’… if they did, they could fight thieves better, and would learn thieves are generally very squishy if they want to do any real damage).

Even having acquired a lot of wxp on thief in wvw, I was among those saying how much the stealth on walls needed fixed, and I was very happy to find out you couldn’t cloak off walls anymore. I don’t think you should really be able to cloak on gates or supply depots either, but that isn’t really as serious. If a thief does so, it narrows the areas they can remain in making it easier to aoe them, and trick them into a stealth trap when they try to avoid being hit. Siege/turrets you really should be able to cloak on, though, since they are able to attack you (although siege has to actually be controlled to hit you but you have to draw the line for simplicity’s sake and the servers load somewhere). Unfortunately engi turrets are treated like structures from what I’ve seen and understand so that may be a compromise on things at this time.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

I don’t use the 50% movement trait on my d/d thief, because I would have to give up far too much to do so. I see it as more useful for the actual trolly ones, or better used by those acting as scouts. I’m not sure how many thieves use it, though, but yeah a good number do seem to with how fast some move. I do advise people that think thieves are just ‘trolls’ or completely ‘op’ to actually play the class and try the different builds (which most refuse to do because it’s ‘cheese’… if they did, they could fight thieves better, and would learn thieves are generally very squishy if they want to do any real damage).

Even having acquired a lot of wxp on thief in wvw, I was among those saying how much the stealth on walls needed fixed, and I was very happy to find out you couldn’t cloak off walls anymore.

I’m not against the removal of stealth from walls, I just wish they didn’t remove it without telling us just before a matchup where the only way to guarantee capping a keep is to stay inside after the enemy caps. I was a bit bitter when I posted this thread as capping some things in our own borderland is almost impossible right now.

Agreed on the point with thieves being squishy, I made 2 to learn how to counter them in combat and once you learn how they play, they’re the easiest class to kill (if they stay to fight) but they are also one of the strongest classes to play with little risk if you use the right builds. 50% movement speed trait is amazing for a condi-stealth thief hiding inside keeps.

If by “nerf” you mean “fix” then yes.

Nokaru.7831:

If by “nerf” you mean “fix” then yes.

A fix can be a nerf if it was a widely used “bug”.

psizone.8437:

Nokaru.7831:

If by “nerf” you mean “fix” then yes.

A fix can be a nerf if it was a widely used “bug”.

Name one thing that is immune to your damage from Cloak and Dagger but still grants you Stealth.

Nokaru.7831:

psizone.8437:

Nokaru.7831:

If by “nerf” you mean “fix” then yes.

A fix can be a nerf if it was a widely used “bug”.

Name one thing that is immune to your damage from Cloak and Dagger but still grants you Stealth.

You don’t read well do you? I have stated above many times that I agree that it shouldn’t have granted stealth in the first place, I’m annoyed that they changed it without warning when I personally needed it to help me recap keeps in an unfair matchup where capping normally is extremely difficult.

But since you asked, I believe supply depot still grants stealth if you cnd off of it. (haven’t confirmed since last patch)

stealth shoud have some minimal visible effect like this

http://allthisrunningaround.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/predator_camouflage.jpg

and remove revail from game

McWolfy.5924:

stealth shoud have some minimal visible effect like this

http://allthisrunningaround.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/predator_camouflage.jpg

and remove revail from game

That’d be interesting, kind of like how it looks like if you look at a stealthed party member? (you should try fighting an enemy thief whilst they’re in your party, it’s exactly like what you’re suggesting)

That would probably be alright, no red name and still “cloaked” enough to remain hidden if you wanted to yet still allow eagle eyed opponents to track you.

psizone.8437:

McWolfy.5924:

stealth shoud have some minimal visible effect like this

http://allthisrunningaround.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/predator_camouflage.jpg

and remove revail from game

That’d be interesting, kind of like how it looks like if you look at a stealthed party member? (you should try fighting an enemy thief whilst they’re in your party, it’s exactly like what you’re suggesting)

That would probably be alright, no red name and still “cloaked” enough to remain hidden if you wanted to yet still allow eagle eyed opponents to track you.

What? No, that’s a terrible idea. Then they could still target you, attack you, and see exactly when you’re behind them. Might as well not stealth if that were the case.

mango.9267:

What? No, that’s a terrible idea. Then they could still target you, attack you, and see exactly when you’re behind them. Might as well not stealth if that were the case.

They’d have to make stealthed thieves untargetable, of course. Besides, you can attack stealthed thieves already. I was just saying it was an interesting idea, not that it’d definitely work.

psizone.8437:

But since you asked, I believe supply depot still grants stealth if you cnd off of it. (haven’t confirmed since last patch)

Yes it does. After I was told you couldn’t cloak off walls, this was the first thing I checked while taking a camp. Well.. siege I already knew because I used cloak/backstab on siege.