Guild Wars 2

Daecollo.9578:

Stability Stomping…

Is it fair?

A thief teleport against stomping person, then invis to again prevent stomping.

Is it fair?

Stealth stomping isnt particularly better than all the other stomp methods, but stealth in general is still dumb in this game. Stealth should end when you use a weapon skill / stomp.

on my ranger, I always liked casting QZ pre-nerf then stomping people. happened so quick they didn’t have time to respond.

pricer.5091:

The real question is why is there a downed mechanic at all? I killed you, you’re dead. Go respawn already and stop hiding behind your friends.

I agree with this, I think it should belong in PVE only. Having to kill the same person twice is annoying and near impossible if they have a friend with them (unless they REALLY suck). Also makes zergs near invincible.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Daecollo.9578:

Stability Stomping…

Is it fair?

A thief teleport against stomping person, then invis to again prevent stomping.

Is it fair?

Thief teleport can easily be countered with another teleport, I do it on my Mes, Thief and Guardian ALL the time. If that doesn’t work, just hit them, since thieves are squishy you can kill them in no time.

Kaizer.7135:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Daecollo.9578:

Stability Stomping…

Is it fair?

A thief teleport against stomping person, then invis to again prevent stomping.

Is it fair?

Thief teleport can easily be countered with another teleport, I do it on my Mes, Thief and Guardian ALL the time. If that doesn’t work, just hit them, since thieves are squishy you can kill them in no time.

In tPvP it’s generally faster to just DPS them to death rather than attempt 3 stomps, and it’s funny when they rage and tell you that you’re supposed to stomp them and that you don’t know how to PvP. x3

it’s annoying when you’re down and trying to heal but random hits will interrupt you. you should be able to interrupt a stomp by hitting them.

You shouldn’t be able to stomp while stealthed IMO. There is no real way of countering it, especially if you used the one skill that might stop you from being stomped by a non stealthed.
Most classes take too long to get the one skill out of the downed that will usually stop the stomping to become available. And I think Guard/Engi are the only ones that have a knockback that would stop a stealthed.

it’s annoying when you’re down and trying to heal but random hits will interrupt you. you should be able to interrupt a stomp by hitting them.

I kinda agree with this, though that would kinda make stomping useless since the downed player could stop the stomper all the time.

I sort of don’t think that requiring a stomp at all is fair. It rewards zerging over small group play.

The stealth stomp, mist stomp, portal stomp, stability stomp, etc… are the only ways to get a successful stomp off in a zerg.

I’d be fine with the removal of the dowend state. Takes too long to get my bags from downed players.

If it is here to stay, stealth stomp is fine, just like all the other stomps that cannot be stopped.

Yes, it’s fair.

Stealth stomp is very fair, yes. It’s just as fair as stability stomping, mist form stomping, elixir-s stomping, shroud stomping, blind stomping, distortion stomping, and any other kind of stomping. Every class has some trick they can employ to help facilitate a stomp, and it makes the combat more interesting to keep those tricks in.

LoL @ paying repair costs b/c of stealth stomp. You didn’t get downed b/c of stealth stomp, just finished off.

Talmor.9048:

Wolfield.9812:

Thief – Stealth Stomp, blind stomp (can make a blind field) and teleport stomp
Mesmer – Invulability Stomp, stealth stomp, teleport stomp
Engineer – Mini Stomp and Stealth Stomp
Guardian – Bubble stomp, stability stomp
Warrior – Stability Stomp
Necro – Death shroud stomp (not really amazing)
Elementalist – Mist form stomp

Thief has the most stomping options and also is able to go into stealth very easily and not use up a utility slot.

You forgot Ranger. We are in the same boat as Warriors. Although we can only use one of our two stabilities since the signet of the wild is a transformation so no stompy stompy for us with that ability. We have to burn an elite (Rampage as One). To get it.

Weapon swap for quickness stomp.

Wolfield.9812:

Thief – Stealth Stomp, blind stomp (can make a blind field) and teleport stomp
Mesmer – Invulability Stomp, stealth stomp, teleport stomp
Engineer – Mini Stomp and Stealth Stomp
Guardian – Bubble stomp, stability stomp
Warrior – Stability Stomp
Necro – Death shroud stomp (not really amazing)
Elementalist – Mist form stomp

Thief has the most stomping options and also is able to go into stealth very easily and not use up a utility slot.

Teleport stomp? Really? I’m not wasting shadowstep on a stomp, or do you mean steal to stealth (which requires a trait) stomp?

I used to think stealth stomp was OP, but then I played a thief. If a thief didn’t have stealth stomp they would be killed VERY quickly exposed.

Every class has an OP stomp.

Why are you complaining about a Stomp than can be interrupted compared to Mist Form and Distortion stomps? Doesn’t matter what you do, you’re not gonna stop of Mist Form or Distortion Stomp. I am not certain, but Stability Stomps can be stopped with Blind.

Stealth Stomps seem more unfair to the downed player b/c you can’t trigger your interrupt on something you can’t see, but you can see Eles and Mesmers. So unless you have a teleport ‘interrupt’ it won’t matter.

If your teammates see a thief stealth near a downed player, chances are they are stomping and you should use an interrupt. Mesmers with GS#5, Focus#4, possibly Staff#5 if you are lucky, Necro’s Staff#5, Elementalist Staff #3, etc… Thieves could argue that they don’t their ‘invinci-stomps’ are weak because the lack of easy stability or invulnerable skills.

Nothing will stop Mist Form and Distortion stomps if timed properly. Stealth stomps on the other hand are easily interrupted if your teammates are paying attention.

Couldn’t be more fair. Every class has goodies/badies on your downed state, one covering the other to compensate. Well balanced.

I honestly feel the downed state should be pve only.

why on earth was this moved to wvw discussion?

It’s pretty balanced in team fights. You need people dying quick and dont want them to rally. Also when a stomp happens in a team fight your friends rally.

Now in a 1v1 if you’re downed you lost the fight.

Mindtrick.5190:

Now in a 1v1 if you’re downed you lost the fight.

I can’t agree with you. In a lot of tied 1v1’s the downed state is very important, with fast reaction and being smart you can win even if you got down first, as it’s a tied fight is very likely you get to down your opponent right after you did.

quick question here.. so i play a Guard, and have had my fair share of being stealth stomped whether it be WvW or PvP. i guess i don’t understand the stealth mechanics that well yet. so when a thief throws down shadow refuge, i can knock him out of it. is it because they haven’t reached the full duration yet so they are just pseudo-stealthed? then i am assuming that even if stealth, you can hit them, so they wouldn’t be immune to CC or knockbacks. but when i am downed, they run up, stealth, my downed skill #2 bubble knockback rarely affects them.

am i missing something? they didn’t have stability on. some cases, i was blinded as well so there’s one explanation. though other times, i don’t think i was blinded.

akamon – yes you got that right – thieves need to stay for the whole duration in the area of the Shadow Refuge. If they get pushed/knocked/feared/etc out of it before the full duration is over (4s for 10s stealth) they instantly get the revealed debuff. Also, the run up to you and stealth part, it’s probably they run up to you, hit you with cloak and dagger and if they have the “blind nearby enemies when you stealth” trait, your 2 downed skill will miss(kinda illogical, but oh well). Same if they use utility blinding powder.

Esprit Dumort.3109:

Why are you complaining about a Stomp than can be interrupted compared to Mist Form and Distortion stomps? Doesn’t matter what you do, you’re not gonna stop of Mist Form or Distortion Stomp. I am not certain, but Stability Stomps can be stopped with Blind.

Stealth Stomps seem more unfair to the downed player b/c you can’t trigger your interrupt on something you can’t see, but you can see Eles and Mesmers. So unless you have a teleport ‘interrupt’ it won’t matter.

If your teammates see a thief stealth near a downed player, chances are they are stomping and you should use an interrupt. Mesmers with GS#5, Focus#4, possibly Staff#5 if you are lucky, Necro’s Staff#5, Elementalist Staff #3, etc… Thieves could argue that they don’t their ‘invinci-stomps’ are weak because the lack of easy stability or invulnerable skills.

Nothing will stop Mist Form and Distortion stomps if timed properly. Stealth stomps on the other hand are easily interrupted if your teammates are paying attention.

Small problem there mist form and distortion stomps have a long cooldown and most likely they will be used once in a fight.
Stability can be stripped or turned into fear.
A thief on the other hand will go around trololololstealthstomping,giving an unfair advantage to his side out of the ammount of rallies .
I fought a thief on equal footing and i saw how stealth really works,its flipping the odds too much on the thieves favor.
This multiplies tenfold when you hit the ground and you have only a targeted fear,and a long recharge aoe that is also targetted.
And to add insult to injury,when you cant do anything while the thief is stealthed you get quickstomped.
Explain to me now in extreme detail so i can understand your thought pattern,how does this looks fair and fun to you.
And while you are at it also explain to me why they removed Deathshroud stomping and left thieves rampant to abuse theyr class mechanic to stomp others while all the other classes cant combo theyr mechanic with stomping.
Because for me this looks like class favoritism.

Shadowstep stomping, stealth stomping, teleport stomping, mist form stomping, elixir S stomping, Distortion stomping, Aegis/blind stomping.

The downed state is terrible..it should be removed. It only further imbalances classes.

Have you ever seen a thief throwing a group stelath before he goes down? Most broken thing in the game..

Dude..why haven’t you rolled a thief in wvw yet?

As engineer I place a Big ol’ Bomb(aoe launch) before trying to rez a downed guy. This often works(or mine). This often works against single stealtht guys or a few moving there without stealth to stomp… of course if there is an enemy zerg aoeing that location or focusing single damage on him it won’t help that much.

Stability is more of a problem… but this is limited(and can also be used to rez – I myself then use a lot of knockback/launch stuff with my engineer to stop enemies doing this… much more fan than standing at 1500 range and throwing grenades in the zerg).

When you’re doing that 1v1 and you’re downed, it’s basically over. Why cry about it? IF the duel was that close and the thief is about to die, wouldn’t it makes sense for him to kite your skills a few seconds or get out of ur range to heal and come back to stomp you? So that defeats the argument of 1v1 thief stomping.

So lets talk about thief vs 2-3+
First of all, The reality is that most thieves don’t use all three skills to stomp. (Blinding powder, stealth, teleport) Most of them have only 2 out of the 3.

You know what, scratch that. I can’t be arsed to teach other players how to play their professions.

Understand the thief, and ur own skills. Understand how your skills works. Know how and when to use a CC skill on a class that doesn’t have stability and invulnerbility.

Any forms of stomping is fair play. Because at the end of the day, everyone gets to taste their own medicine. You don’t like stomping? Take out downed system. It’s as easy as that.

TLDR: stop crying at a specific class because you’re too narrow minded to know how to use ur own profession.

And yeah, I am a thief. And yeah, I don’t stealth. I’m being completely serious.

I do not find stealth stomp unfair. They can be interuppted by an allie.

I do find Mistform stomps to be OP as they cannot be stopped by anything. “Why is that OP the skill is working as planned?” Well that may be the case but why can’t a necro stomp in Death Shroud? I honestly didn’t like when they made it impossible to use other skills while in MistForm but stomping while in it is OP in my eyes.

Better question. Is it fair that your stomp fails because a downed player turns invisible despite remaining in the exact same spot? It didn’t stop the Witch King when Frodo put on the ring of power.

To be really honest though…
Is it fair to die and then come back and kick the guy’s kitten ?
Not really. I mean, rangers for instance can get back up so quick when they have their #3 skill up (=> pet reviving them).

Stealth != invulnerability. If you’re alone, it’s only fair you die, the guy beat you anyway, you’re on the ground…he could just bs you to death too.
If you’re not alone…your allies suck. Just have them use stuns/aoes/whatever near you and you won’t be stomped.

akamon.2769:

quick question here.. so i play a Guard, and have had my fair share of being stealth stomped whether it be WvW or PvP. i guess i don’t understand the stealth mechanics that well yet. so when a thief throws down shadow refuge, i can knock him out of it. is it because they haven’t reached the full duration yet so they are just pseudo-stealthed? then i am assuming that even if stealth, you can hit them, so they wouldn’t be immune to CC or knockbacks. but when i am downed, they run up, stealth, my downed skill #2 bubble knockback rarely affects them.

am i missing something? they didn’t have stability on. some cases, i was blinded as well so there’s one explanation. though other times, i don’t think i was blinded.

Could be the trait Cloaked in Shadow. It makes it so thieves proc an aoe blind when stealthing. Blind’s the only thing in the Thief’s arsenal that saves them the Guardian’s bubble. Makes stealth stomping stronger though it’s still interruptable by friendlies though.
Personally I find Dpsing downed opponents more effective than stomping. (Especially on my Pistol Engie)

Stealth Stomping is fair game. Almost every class has a atleast one way of stomping that renders them either not moveable in some sort of way or not easily interrupted. Deal with it, its the state of the game and be glad that there is atleast balance in that fact.

The only problem you could argue there is with Stealth-finishing, is how abundant it is, and cheap.
A thief has so many Stealth abilities, even readily available without cooldown, that Stealthstomping is practically always an option with virtually no cost or drawback.

If an Ele for example uses Mistform stomp, this means he has to blow a lengthy cooldown which wont be available for some time. The same deal with Stability.

However, i’d have to point out how utterly unbalanced downed states are. Most professions can be finished with a simple Blind, because their interupt will then Miss. While some other professions (thief/ele/mesmer) dont care about anything and have a pretty much guarenteed “get out of jail free”-card.

Wow… I did not even know blind affects these AoE skills… never paid that much attention to it buw not what I remember sometimes the failed this might have been blind.

This really makes no sense… should only affect skills where you need to target – directly aimed skills. Not ground targeted AoE(maybe if blind move the AoE location so he hits somewhere else but still hits chars standing there at that other location)… and that AoE around your char(like with that guardian downed skill or engineer downed 3 – I think it is called Point Blank AoE) should always hit… cause there is just no targeting and he is hitting everything around him. Makes no sense for it to be affected by blindness.

Every single day. More threads that basically say, “THIS CONCEPT OF STEALTH CONFUSES AND ANGERS ME, ANET MUST DESTROY IT”

You guys never fail to disappoint.

While some other professions (thief/ele/mesmer) dont care about anything and have a pretty much guarenteed “get out of jail free”-card.

Guaranteed get out of jail free card…do tell how that works, exactly? This isn’t beta weekend 1 anymore, where people went, “oops, the mesmer teleported 5 feet away, we’d better just call it quits.”

No, it’s not fair. But who ever said the game has to be fair? If fairness ever becomes a design priority, they’re gonna have to go back and redo a lot more than stealth stomps.

Bovinity.8610:

Guaranteed get out of jail free card…do tell how that works, exactly?

Gladly.

Lets take a Warrior first.

His interupt consists of throwing a Hammer against one target. As a result, he can only interupt one person. But, his hammer will miss if he gets blinded. Also, it wont knockdown the target if the target has Stability. Also, forget about hitting someone who is in stealth.
And since its a projectile, it can be bodyblocked, by another player or a pet. Meaning the Warrior hits someone/something other then the person doing the stomp.

Then, lets take the Elementalist.

His interupt makes him go into Mistform. He is now immune to stomps. Thats it. He can interupt an infinite number of people stomping. Even if all these people had Stability, Stealth, a pet to bodyblock and the Elementalist was Blinded.
Not even going into how moving can take you away from the heat of the battle where its easier to get rezzed by allies, or atleast not take so much cleave damage.

Warrior and Elementalist are just two example professions. Here is a full list.

-Thief.
Moves. Unaffected by number of enemies, blind, stability, stealth, los. It is possible a stomper teleports after the Thief, but then the Thief shouldnt hit his Shadow Escape to early against certain professions.
Thief then also has a Stealth, which makes him immune to Stomps. Meaning, also a perfect interupt. Nr2.

-Mesmer.
Blinks away in a random direction and gains stealth. Unaffected by numbers, stability, blind los.
Stealth only if there are NO targets at all left nearby, since the blink needs to be used on a target. Rarely happens that you get Stealth-finished without being able to use the Blink on anything.

-Elementalist
Mistform. Immune to stomps, period. Already mentioned.

-Guardian.
AoE interupt upto 5 targets (AoE cap). Is not affacted by stealth since it doesnt require a target. But is affected by Blind and Stability. Not affected by LoS

-Ranger
AoE interupt upto 5 targets (AoE cap). Is affected by Stealth if all enemy targets are in Stealth, it needs a target. If there is someone target, the splash can still interupt the Stealther. Is also affected by Stability and Blind. Not affacted by LoS

-Necro
Fear, a single target interupt. Is affected by Stealth, Stability and Blind. Not affacted by LoS

-Warrior
Projectile, a single target interupt. Is affected by Blind, Stealth, Stability and LoS.

-Engineer
Projectile, a single target interupt. Is affected by Blind, Stealth, Stability and LoS. Engineer has a 2nd interupt, practically the cooldown is so long before its available thakittens rarely ever used in any gamemode.

All you did is demonstrate why some of the downed skills are arguably more effective. It still doesn’t mean they’re “guaranteed get out of jail free cards” by any means. (Mistform can be if you’re near some sort of escape like a keep door, granted.)

If it’s 1 vs. 1 only then the downed person always is dead… unless the other one still up is not low at health and stupid enough to also get downed(which can mean a disadvantage against certain classes… like Guardian that can heal a bit with 3 in downed vs downed fight which means even if he was downed ealier he still might win).

So if I’m low health I try to move somewhere where I can’t be hit and heal… then stomp or just attack him dead with normal attacks(by the time I healed he will have 2 and 3 ready so normal attacks might be better).

Only problem is if there are more people… but then it does not need to be balanced – cause it is more people… and every team can have one of each class nearby that their own strenght and weaknesses. Downed is totally fine. The only crappy thing is the unlimited rallying.

Stealth stomping,is it fair?

NO.

Next, I like the easy questions…

I have a thief but I play engineer in TPVP where stomping is an art. Stealth stomping is no different from using the Elixir S (invulnerability) or mist form (invulnerability too). If stealth stomping is not fair than stability isn’t too. While I’m on my engi, for example, I hate warriors who stomp me with stability since I can’t do nothing (just like if a thief stealthed himself). Every class has its own stomping mechanic (mesmer invulnerability, guardian stability, thief stealth or blindness, engi invulnerability, etc etc) just deal with it.

If you want to remove stealth stomp and/or other stomping mechanics than just remove downed state since it will be completely impossible to stomp someone before he gets ressed.

Seriously guys…. How many times is stealth going to be brought up and whined about? If a thief is stealth stomping you and it upsets you it is because you want your buddies to come in and kill him first. Simple solution: when you go down have your friends aoe the kitten out of your downed body and BAM thief is done for! The problem here is not nor has it ever been the thief’s ability to stealth, but rather an extremely large deficit in player skill when they can’t see the thief. If you think about it, you probably know he is there due to already being backstabbed so your first instinct should be to protect your immediate surroundings (<200range). Do this by dropping aoe or or autoattacking while spinning around. You WILL cause him damage and he may land that next stab(if this takes you down then you are too glassy and it is your own fault) or he may rethink himself and change strategy. This whole time you should be trying to appply protection/heals/regen. Also, if u have no way of putting these boons on yourself or aoeing the area around you, you may want to rethink your build. How each class handles a thief is different based on their skill sets, but it is possible on all classes. I personally play a guardian and have had a theif pop me for 8.5k of my14k health and I have 3.1k armor! Did I freak out and QQ on the forums? No, I understood that thiefs have a different mechanic than me and I slapped on boons, dropped aoe and crushed him in seconds because he was glass as hell with 2.1k armor.

Just stop complaining about it and actually practice fighting them if you don’t want to die to them. Personally, P/d condi thiefs out there have had 10+ stacks of bleeding on me ticking for 136 each and that is incredibly more difficult to deal with that some guy attacking me from behind and HAS TO KEEP ATTACKING me there. You always know where he will be!

Kinda went off course there, but if they don’t down you then they can’t stealth stomp you. And honestly…how many fights have you won from downed state just because you could see the person attacking you? Yea….

It’s fair. Who cares really. You get stomped when you are down. It’s to be expected. Very rare in my experience to get up from that, though I mostly roam alone. When it happens and I am alone or in groups, especially if I am in a zerg, I just clone and port away. Anything that wastes a little bit of time is good imo. But ya, I am down, I most likely will get stomped so if they are stealthed or not makes very little difference.

IMO you should not be able to stomp while in Mistform or while you’re tiny via Elixir S. Stealth…well, that and Stability can actually be countered while an ally is down, so…

Meglobob.8620:

Stealth stomping,is it fair?

NO.

Next, I like the easy questions…

The silly thing about it is that attacking someone while stealthed gives you the revealed debuff. Unless, yaknow, if you’re spiking them.

It would make sense that spiking would give you the revealed debuff….

Whether ANet sees that sense or not is another story.

Thief’s perspective here:
IMO it’s justified to stealth stomp in this meta game, and for one good reason. I suggest everyone tries to make a thief and finish off a player without stealth. You will realize half the time a player can actually down you if you have +-5k hp left after a fight, not to forget if he has a friend and you DON’T stealthstomp him, you are dead, simple as that.

Take this any way you like, whether stealth is OP or not, without it thieves would be like a turtle without a shell. There would need to be a complete class haul over for it to even work, peace

Yocairo.4257:

Thief’s perspective here:
IMO it’s justified to stealth stomp in this meta game, and for one good reason. I suggest everyone tries to make a thief and finish off a player without stealth. You will realize half the time a player can actually down you if you have +-5k hp left after a fight, not to forget if he has a friend and you DON’T stealthstomp him, you are dead, simple as that.

Take this any way you like, whether stealth is OP or not, without it thieves would be like a turtle without a shell. There would need to be a complete class haul over for it to even work, peace

Thieves are a medium armor class sharing the same health pool as eles and guardians.

Eles, in light armor, are forced to spike people without the aid of stealth. Why do thieves get a break when their armor value is better?

Don’t run glass, and you have nothing to worry about.

Hickeroar.9734:

Yocairo.4257:

Thief’s perspective here:
IMO it’s justified to stealth stomp in this meta game, and for one good reason. I suggest everyone tries to make a thief and finish off a player without stealth. You will realize half the time a player can actually down you if you have +-5k hp left after a fight, not to forget if he has a friend and you DON’T stealthstomp him, you are dead, simple as that.

Take this any way you like, whether stealth is OP or not, without it thieves would be like a turtle without a shell. There would need to be a complete class haul over for it to even work, peace

Thieves are a medium armor class sharing the same health pool as eles and guardians.

Eles, in light armor, are forced to spike people without the aid of stealth. Why do thieves get a break when their armor value is better?

Don’t run glass, and you have nothing to worry about.

Because Ele’s can bunker, have all the heals, access to aoe burning and bleeds, ect. Why even stomp when you can dps the opponent down just as fast while keeping your guard up? Also, even in Knight’s Armour Thieves are still squishy, and Soldier’s Thieves have trouble just plain killing.

FYI I don’t run zerker at all, and ele are the tankiest class in this game..

Edit: meant zerker, not bunker:P