Guild Wars 2

Perma stealth, high condi damage with trailblazer/dire build and yet it even gets its traps boosted in latest balance patch. People now get hunted all over WvW by 2-3 condi trappers roaming together, you dont see them. You just see 15 confusion and 25 poison which is instantly up even if you cleanse all.
Completly ruining roaming. Best thing is, they even hide in keeps after they tried to cap it. Perma stealth -> place some traps at a portal entrance and viola you can farm people. what the heck is this?

What is this? Its Anet not caring about what their ‘balance’ does to WvW.

If you can, just learn to live with WvW being treated as the unwanted step-child or you’ll forever be upset about what is happening with the game mode.

Better get used to this build. If they keep treating WvW balance like this, we will see a lot more of these.

ANet can’t see a problem with this build.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

What is this? Its Anet not caring about what their ‘balance’ does to WvW.

If you can, just learn to live with WvW being treated as the unwanted step-child or you’ll forever be upset about what is happening with the game mode.

Ye well people are arguing “this game is dead anyway, anet shouldnt give us dire and trapper stuff, they ruined everything”. No, those people USING it ruin everything. If the game is dead for those people, couldnt they just … you know, leave? I still enjoy this game but those depressive emo-condi abusers are annoying as hell.

I’m told to blast the light field or something.

2-3 power builds roaming can jump on you before you know it and gank you. I just point this out to people who think anet should balance the game so they don’t die to 3v1 situations. Like, I understand the frustration as a person who has fought numerous ghost thieves.

What I don’t understand is why you were standing still long enough for their group to set up a takedown. OP claims cleanse didn’t work. That seems unlikely. Even if you only cleansed some of the condi it cuts the dps significantly. That gives you time to heal and cleanse again.

Some tips. There are puffs of smoke where they place traps. Dodge through and trigger them and they have zero effect. They spend 80-90% of their time stacking stealth. Try to move away during this period and they will have even less condi application per second as they have to chase you and stack stealth again. Stay mobile in general and try to disrupt their stealth stacking with AoE stun or knockdown on the black powder fields. Try to anticipate when their burst is on refresh and block just as they start their first condi application (multiple abilities in these builds are blockable).

saerni.2584:

What I don’t understand is why you were standing still long enough for their group to set up a takedown. OP claims cleanse didn’t work. That seems unlikely. Even if you only cleansed some of the condi it cuts the dps significantly. That gives you time to heal and cleanse again.

As explained, you cleanse all, you get all those condis up again. I tried condi thief for 2 hours in guild arena vs 2 friends and both had cleanse. Its extremly easy to keep those condis up all time even if all get cleansed. The CD on traps is super low + all other traits/skills that grant condi. Condi on CD? stealth around and wait.

Aside from how effective it may or may not be, it shouldn’t exist in the first place. How people don’t see this is what’s really amazing, here.

Keeping up some condi sure, but not ALL of the condi burst which is what kills people.

Perma stealth cannot maintain lethal levels of condi damage. That’s why all the stronger condi builds for thief involve being visable and using weapon skills to apply most of their damage.

Anet saw our complain topics about this and thought “well lets kitten the community off by doing the opposite of what they would like to see, LETS BUFF IT!”

Anet logic never gets boring, although save your sanity and do NOT try to understand.

RodOfDeath.5247:

I’m told to blast the light field or something.

Yes, blasting light fields is what to do.

didnt have much issue runing dire chrono with inspiration but best way to beat one of those is trap/druid with Empathic Bond Shared Anguish and Healing Spring and burn DH with meditation and traps

Offair.2563:

Anet saw our complain topics about this and thought “well lets kitten the community off by doing the opposite of what they would like to see, LETS BUFF IT!”

Anet logic never gets boring, although save your sanity and do NOT try to understand.

In all fairness had they buffed the traps and added token damage then it would have been seen as the opposite, a great change to the build…they just forgot the token damage.

If there one thief in the group your condition cleanses can keep up. If you are talking more then one focusing you then they can not but as stated by others the same thing happens when power builds focus you.

The CD on needle trap is 24 seconds if traited . Only one trap applies damaging conditions. The CD of most condition cleanses is lower than that. Compare the traps of a thief to the Ranger traps and the DH traps and the cooldowns are similar.

Ranger drops apply as many if not more conditions then do thief traps. DHS or rangers dropping traps at a portal can drop people just as quickly.

There nothing untoward about the damage output of the Thief traps. There nothing untoward about being focused by multiple enemies that use traps and being killed.

The only real issue is stealth stacking wherein stealth maintained permanently something which can be done without using a single trap.

3 thieves working in unison and not using a single trap can load 33 stacks of confusion on a target along with 6 poisons just on their steal with heal and Pain inverter proc and maintain stealth. Other iterations can load a wider variety of conditions while not using a trap. (ie wear krait and proc the elite, wear balthazar proc the heal and so on)

With caltrops in the build and traited for panic strike and improv these three thieves can drop people quickly just as a version using traps while never leaving stealth.

In summation the issue is NOT traps (although on can make the case that stacking multiple traps same spot might be an issue) and one can not base an argument on there being multiple enemies targetting one as the same results happen across the board with any profession. The issue is the stealth stacking which traps in fact have little to do with.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZQQJAoalsMhS3Ylbw5Jw/EHwEl+PDgdz/FL6Iy7hYYHA-T1RAQBA4EAUt9Heo6PfU5n0eAAyUJ4/0DQKgFVWB-w

This a link to what possible with a Ghost thief build. This one does not use any trap except the one dropped via the heal via respite. That trap itself is NOT required when one wants to talk about a “trolling” build or one where 2 or three thieves maintaining stealth can drop enemies.

No trappers runes used. No traps on the utility bar.

Remember that as far as INI goes a couple of thieves working in unison can keep higher stealth uptime as only one needs to set the smoke field. Said thieves can “mix” their builds (Ie one uses Krait one uses perplexity) for added impact and avoid using traps entirely.

I feel it important to point this out because people will focus on the wrong things (traps or trapper runes) which will lead to “fixes” that ruin legitmate builds and do not address the real issue.

It inaccurate to state that adding 2 more poison to needle trap “made ghost thieif stronger”. It made trap builds stronger and in particular those focused on conditions. There nothing wrong with that goal. The Ghost thief benefited indirectly from this very much like adding BA as a GM or extending the bleed time of caltrops did.

Adding the extra speed to Hidden thief also made the Ghost Thief stronger but this hardly means that change was unwarranted. Any number of changes to the various traits in game can indirectly benefit a Ghost thief build. The existence of Ghost thief should not be used as a rationale to prevent that.

KEEP BLASTING THAT LIGHT FIELD YO BRO!

But seriously what the kitten, Anet?!

Anet is testing if making a situation so absurd the players will shift to the winning build or stay with their own.

I don’t think social experiments are a good idea in this game at this state of loosing revenue and players but well, it is not my company.

On another point the solution is pretty simple: Stealth must not stack anymore.

anduriell.6280:

Anet is testing if making a situation so absurd the players will shift to the winning build or stay with their own.

I don’t think social experiments are a good idea in this game at this state of loosing revenue and players but well, it is not my company.

On another point the solution is pretty simple: Stealth must not stack anymore.

That’s not the solution, because it breaks thief.

Doing damage while staying stealthed is the problem.

Blast ya light field boizzzz.

Cygnus.6903:

anduriell.6280:

Anet is testing if making a situation so absurd the players will shift to the winning build or stay with their own.

I don’t think social experiments are a good idea in this game at this state of loosing revenue and players but well, it is not my company.

On another point the solution is pretty simple: Stealth must not stack anymore.

That’s not the solution, because it breaks thief.

Doing damage while staying stealthed is the problem.

Thief has many defensive tools, learn to use them.

Stealth should be used only as short duration efect to close gap or escape, no as means to fight or reset the fight.
No stacking stealth means no more trolling thieves, Mesmers or druids which is fantastic for the health of this game.

anduriell.6280:

Cygnus.6903:

anduriell.6280:

Anet is testing if making a situation so absurd the players will shift to the winning build or stay with their own.

I don’t think social experiments are a good idea in this game at this state of loosing revenue and players but well, it is not my company.

On another point the solution is pretty simple: Stealth must not stack anymore.

That’s not the solution, because it breaks thief.

Doing damage while staying stealthed is the problem.

Thief has many defensive tools, learn to use them.

Stealth should be used only as short duration efect to close gap or escape, no as means to fight or reset the fight.
No stacking stealth means no more trolling thieves, Mesmers or druids which is fantastic for the health of this game.

You understate the the benefits of stealth to the thief under current game conditions.

For those traited SA stealth adds speed to the thief allowing faster map movement for better pursuit and escape potential. Stealth gives added defenses which are sorely lacking in the way of Resilience . They do not have the armor or health or protection and regen access of other classes. Stealth cleanses conditions based on how long one is in stealth. Without longer stealth only two conditions can be cleansed per stealth meaning you pop out at lower durations and very often still have the same ticking on you.

Stealth provides INI regen which is precious to any thief. It in essence s substitute for weapon swaps or lower weapon cooldowns other classes get. Stealth provides health regen vua rejuv. Other professions have multiple sources of the same (see shouts on warriors, rousing resilience and the like)

You can NOT equate stealth on Thief with stealth on other classes as no other classes need stealth to do these things nor do they have a traitline focused on it . (or for that matter specail attacks that require the same)

Were the stacking on stealth to be removed , all of these things would have to be looked at so that those lower stealth durations could provide the same amount of cleanses/ini and healing as the thief currently gets.

If stealth stacking removed and the thief could no longer benefit as they do by traiting the SA line , then that line would be abandoned in favor of the dodge thief and the same people complaining about perma stealth would be complaining about dodges.

I find it a double standard that you have issues with a thief “resetting a fight” when through abilities given other classes , many of those classes can do it as a matter of course . The thief by design is made to hit, hit hard and pull out of combat. They HAVE to reset or they die.

anduriell.6280:

Cygnus.6903:

anduriell.6280:

Anet is testing if making a situation so absurd the players will shift to the winning build or stay with their own.

I don’t think social experiments are a good idea in this game at this state of loosing revenue and players but well, it is not my company.

On another point the solution is pretty simple: Stealth must not stack anymore.

That’s not the solution, because it breaks thief.

Doing damage while staying stealthed is the problem.

Thief has many defensive tools, learn to use them.

Stealth should be used only as short duration efect to close gap or escape, no as means to fight or reset the fight.
No stacking stealth means no more trolling thieves, Mesmers or druids which is fantastic for the health of this game.

If a thief has to reset, he has lost the engagement as he’s also resetting the opponent. If anything, the next time the Thief engages it’ll be at a disadvantage because the opponent will be ready.

Nobody on Blackgate was attacked by a Ghost Trapper therefore they don’t exist.

-Thread Closed-

TwiceDead.1963:

If a thief has to reset, he has lost the engagement as he’s also resetting the opponent. If anything, the next time the Thief engages it’ll be at a disadvantage because the opponent will be ready.

The opponent’s kitten will be on cooldown, that’s the whole point of the resetting.

msalakka.4653:

TwiceDead.1963:

If a thief has to reset, he has lost the engagement as he’s also resetting the opponent. If anything, the next time the Thief engages it’ll be at a disadvantage because the opponent will be ready.

The opponent’s kitten will be on cooldown, that’s the whole point of the resetting.

Depends on the opponent. If you burn all your strongest skills with the longest cooldowns in a panic which gives the thief an easy read of your kitten nal, that’s on you.

anduriell.6280:

Cygnus.6903:

anduriell.6280:

Anet is testing if making a situation so absurd the players will shift to the winning build or stay with their own.

I don’t think social experiments are a good idea in this game at this state of loosing revenue and players but well, it is not my company.

On another point the solution is pretty simple: Stealth must not stack anymore.

That’s not the solution, because it breaks thief.

Doing damage while staying stealthed is the problem.

Thief has many defensive tools, learn to use them.

Stealth should be used only as short duration efect to close gap or escape, no as means to fight or reset the fight.
No stacking stealth means no more trolling thieves, Mesmers or druids which is fantastic for the health of this game.

Why make this personal?

You got shrekt by a power thief one too many times, didn’t you.

This build objectively hurts the quality of this game and it would be an exponentially better game without it.

Cygnus.6903:

That’s not the solution, because (Stealth Stacking) breaks thief.

Power D/P builds have been a problem since launch. They attack from stealth and a player has 3s to respond against a class that has numerous evades and high mobility.

Stealth should have to be chained not stacked. Stealthers will generally get the same stealth duration but they won’t be able to get it in easy mode. In that system Black Powder will take a hit and it might need to be adjusted but BP/HS combo has been busted since jump…. and I main a thief… as in thousands of hours on one.

I can’t stand this anymore, currently up against jade sea and deso who have groups of condi thieves roaming around…
I can’t do a single thing, cleanse the first, send the second back loaded up again. At least I can see what’kitten
ting me when it’s a d/p this is just hide in stealth……profit.
I don’t usually bad mouth ANET but do you guys even log into your own game?

It used to be the odd thief, I can deal with that I’m happy to just move on but teams of invisible enemy’s are crapping on the small scale stuff.

Bunch of crybabies acting as if there is no way to counter trapper thief…