Guild Wars 2

Players who are on siege during offenses are being severely penalized now.

It started with the addition of chests to keep/tower lords, and it has now gotten worse with ascended materials being added to those chests.

Scenarios that have played out within one evening’s game play:

In Overlook in EB, catapulting Ogre Watch from the Overlook wall. I get the wall down (solo) and before I can jump down and rush in, the keep lord is dead. NO LOOT FOR YOU.

Attacking Hills, both outer and inner gates are down, we’re about to rush into the Lord’s room, but some of us have to stay on the bridge and hold off the defenders that are returning. NO LOOT FOR YOU.

Attacking a supply camp with defenders, and (as a smart player would), some of us attack the players instead of the NPCs, but about half of us don’t, and the Supervisor dies to them while we’re killing the players. NO LOOT FOR YOU.

Is there a reason to tie the act of tagging the boss here that makes sense? There are already events tied to the taking of a keep / tower / supply camp – why not have a chest reward attached to the event that everyone there helped, not just the people who were in a position to tag the boss.

Heck, I think it makes MORE sense – we had an attempt to take a tower that failed, but we got the Lord down before we got swamped. doesn’t matter got loot

Now I’m a big boy. I guess I can make decisions about whether or not failing an event is worth the chest, but I know many people will gladly sacrifice victory for phat loot. And I don’t why there has to be the choice.

I thought PPT was all that mattered?

Perhaps this will encourage fewer siege monkeys?

Niim.9260:

I thought PPT was all that mattered?

Perhaps this will encourage fewer siege monkeys?

The meta should not discourage against Playing to Win. That is a crime against all games and gamers everywhere, for all time.

Niim, “siege monkey”?!? I take actual offense at that. You think it’s fun taking down SMC walls with a treb? No, but I’m sure you enjoy waltzing in after someone does the work.

Godkitten selfish kittens.

Wvw has never rewarded people who play to win.

Stop penalizing players not on siege! lol. They should have just called this game Fantasy Battlefield 3

I was a bit surprised when the chests popped up after killing the supervisor instead of a loot box (like the rank up chests) when the keep or tower is actually captured. With this current system you could also get the reward and fail to capture the objective because reinforcements arrive before you finish capping the circle. Its not only on siege but people who are killing actual players instead of hitting the npc that get screwed over. They need to change the rewards from a drop to a chest when the objective has been completed this way everyone gets their piece of the pie.

For all I care they could remove all structures and make WvW one large open field battleground for all of our group-fighting desires.

But they did not. The game seems to be intended to revolve largely around PPT, well placed siege and the tedious task of manning that siege. It’s not the most exciting or challenging experience but people who dedicate time to it should get more than just the satisfaction of knowing they played a part. Otherwise those people will slowly but surely just migrate into the mindless zerg, crippling a core mechanic of WvW.

Until they make defending offer the same rewards as taking a keep the name of the game is flip wars 2. Using siege to take down walls etc. should offer the same reward as someone that gets a shot in of the lord IMO so as to promote more team play (teamwork). PPT means nothing to the average player that only cares for shinies and WxP.

If for instance every time you defend a tower/keep the timer offered some reward other than just the silver/karma that it does now you would see many more being interested in keeping their property. Same goes for camps, If you are in the ring when the camp is taken/defended you should get rewarded for taking/defending the supervisor.

Edit: clarity

I just trebbed a tower for 15 minutes and took down 90% of the walls health. Because I couldn’t get there in time I got absolutely no reward. That’s ridiculous and needs to change. Helping my team shouldn’t be a waste of my time…

yeah I have to agree having to tag the keep/tower lords to get your loot is silly. Would have been better imo to put the new mats in the rank chests or better yet to succeeded defense events. They keep giving us less incentive to actually hold what we capture. You want WXP or the new crafting mats find yourself a train…

At least I’m not the only one who feels this way.

Defending definitely needs a reward more than a trickle of karma/wxp

First problem. Spending 15 RL minutes on a treb pressing one button. I’d rather be homeless in the winter time than do something that mind numbing. At least being homeless you could feel something, like being cold. Pressing one button for 15 minutes gives one finger feeling and the rest of your body jack kitten. Lol god this game is just a haven for people who don’t like to think.

Jscull.2514:

First problem. Spending 15 RL minutes on a treb pressing one button. I’d rather be homeless in the winter time than do something that mind numbing. At least being homeless you could feel something, like being cold. Pressing one button for 15 minutes gives one finger feeling and the rest of your body jack kitten. Lol god this game is just a haven for people who don’t like to think.

I agree with you to a certain extent; but this game was not designed for geniuses. From the other angle it has never taken any brain power to press 1 (once if auto attack is on) to “help” take down a gate and get the reward once at the lord in the zerg either. At least the guy on the treb has to aim it in the right direction, and this can be harder to do at long distances without a spotter.

Just saying why reward the smuck following mindlessly in a zerg, hitting the gate and taking the lord when you don’t reward the guy on the treb that saved the zerg a few minutes?

Why make the game reward anyone doing mindless activity? That’s why there is a mass exodus, why the competitive guilds we knew left, it’s why we left. Just geared for 8 year olds to win.

Rewarding players for pressing 2-3 buttons to achieve “victory” has conditioned the mmo population to think cookie cutter games like gw2 are challenging and even worse, “worth spending money” on.

Yeh, I don’t even get on siege anymore unless im running with my guild it is absolutely needed and no one else wants to do it.

Kincaidia.3192:

Niim, “siege monkey”?!? I take actual offense at that. You think it’s fun taking down SMC walls with a treb? No, but I’m sure you enjoy waltzing in after someone does the work.

Godkitten selfish kittens.

Thank you, you definitely used lots of skill and hard work to press 1 button over and over again for a hafl an hour. Niim should be punished for not building a treb next to yours and also press 1 button for a really long time, thus displaying his own depth of knowledge and prowess.

Jscull.2514:

It’s why we left.

You’re still here.

In fact you post more than people who actively play (and enjoy) the game, which I find to be a bit of a sad joke really.

Let the kitten continue anyway.

Kincaidia.3192:

At least I’m not the only one who feels this way.

Defending definitely needs a reward more than a trickle of karma/wxp

Defense procs will need to be rewarded in different ways, if you want meaningful rewards, because:

• Defending procs can occur many times during a single attack (a few succesful defenses, during a long keep siege, quickly out-strips WXP gain of actually taking the structure, for example).
• Defending requires nothing more than dumping 4 supply into a wall or gate.
• A single thief tapping the gate can start a defense proc.
• Bots/Griefers can get defense procs by just wasting keep supply.

Also, defending does reward more than trickle of karma -> player bags…. if you win, of course.

This is why the current meta is becoming “don’t defend anything, just run around ramming or goleming things and leaving when enemies come.” Nobody wants to sit and press a button for 20 minutes, so if everyone just kind of has a gentleman’s agreement to not defend, everyone gets more rewards.

Vena, were playin another game and I come here to bash Anet and the carebears for what a “just like the past 5-6 games” catastrophe this has been.

It’s funny it’s always the same 5-6 guys who are “appalled” at what I write because I shed light to the table of what a sad reality the “wvw competitive” platform is. It’s just a sad excuse to be the “only mmo worth playing” lol. Every single REAL competitive guild we knew has left except SPCA. (and I’ll clarify competitive, people that only log on to kill players and run under 8 players everyday).

Every single guild has left. Most left before we did. And now it’s just a combination of zergers who have never experienced anything else, and guys like you who are so bought into Anets “meta” you fear loss of breath if it ever ceased from your computer screen. Lol news flash pal, that meta is for extreme rookies.

Enjoy playing against guys who admit they sit on seige for chunks of RL time to play the “meta”……pressing 1-2 keys. EXCUSE ME, clicking 1-2 buttons.

Kincaidia.3192:

Niim, “siege monkey”?!? I take actual offense at that. You think it’s fun taking down SMC walls with a treb? No, but I’m sure you enjoy waltzing in after someone does the work.

Godkitten selfish kittens.

No on says you have to set up a treb in an untouchable location and spam #1 until something is destroyed. You could, crazy as this is, set up catapults near the wall and get fights and fun while using the catapults, or maybe even ram the door. In these cases it is 1) not boring 2) close to the fight and thus you will not lose out on credit.

Yes sometimes a treb in these locations makes the most sense given the defense or map strategy, but I fail to see why someone on a treb so far away they cannot get credit, should be rewarded for watching TV while a macro fires a treb for him.

The game needs way less siege monkeys and more fighting, imo.

We’d have a a solid army of siege monkeys ready, me included, if there was ANY type of incentive.

Like, I don’t know, XP and some loot, since the best place for a level 2 newly created character is in a treb somewhere far away from fights.

But no, why would you, can’t get XP that way so kitten it.

@Niim – my wvw trait points are a) AC mastery, all but last, and Cata mastery, all but last.

I’m trying to be a well rounded player, spending time running supply + upgrading, defending, attacking, roaming, yak sniping, etc.

It’s just hard to be well rounded when certain aspects go almost completely unrewarded and actually cost me money – speaking of dropping siege, running supply for said siege, and purchasing tower/supply upgrades.

Kincaidia.3192:

It’s just hard to be well rounded when certain aspects go almost completely unrewarded

Those certain aspects being ones that are without risk, that you can macro while watching TV?

I don’t macro period, and if I’m sitting on a treb, I’m listening in teamspeak and calling out swords on the map.

Just because you assume someone going to take the lazy route because you would doesn’t mean that they do.

Niim.9260:

I thought PPT was all that mattered?

Perhaps this will encourage fewer siege monkeys?

As he stated, the people on cata/treb and whatsoever doing the most job taking down a wall/gate while the non “siege monkeys”waiting to rush in to nuke lord and grab the loot, so i do agree with OP on this one.

Jscull.2514:

First problem. Spending 15 RL minutes on a treb pressing one button. I’d rather be homeless in the winter time than do something that mind numbing. At least being homeless you could feel something, like being cold. Pressing one button for 15 minutes gives one finger feeling and the rest of your body jack kitten. Lol god this game is just a haven for people who don’t like to think.

Yep, the only people who can think and also like siege are map commanders and siege leaders. These people are fully engaged at the overall strategic level (like Napoleon or something).

For those who just want to fight other people, they’re just an impediment.

Things that need to be done for the upcoming season (before).

Step 1: Tie the Tower/Keep/Supply LORD chest to the Event completion reward and not to the lord itself. Therefore those that help in obtaining the objective receive the reward, not just those that hit the one mob.

Step 2: Incorporate those rewards to whomever does damage during the attack, so if someone is trebbing a wall, they should get at least silver level + chest. It’s one of the most tedious jobs in WvW and should be rewarded.

Step 3: Instead of a chest with t7 mats (which will be now given upon event completion), the lord drops regular loot bags with chances of rare slightly increased due to the higher level of the mob.

Step 4: Add the chest reward to successfully defending a keep/tower. The chest will only be given if you have a silver or higher event completion (to avoid those that are just akitten a tower/keep receiving rewards).

Finally generally increase defensive WxP and monetary rewards for defending by 10-20% accross the board. To entice people to defend. On this new server I am on people simply don’t even care to defend anymore. It’s “easier to attack and you get more rewards” is something that we should not hear as avid WvW fans.

These in my opinion would help bring back the siege/counter siege fights in WvW and also make it less about the race to ‘tag a mob’ so you can get a reward than to participate and help your server progress.

Thanks for the feedback. Now if it could just get noticed….

Or just hire NPCs at gold-per-15-minutes rate that will charge a treb up as required.

As someone in the US, I like being able to throw money at things I don’t like to sort things out.

Just hire NPC, set what it should be charged to and angle and pay for X time and he’ll get going. Firing about half the rate of a human and if he dies, your money is lost.

Just shoot you catapult into the lord room, after you got the wall down.

Wanze.8410:

Just shoot you catapult into the lord room, after you got the wall down.

Sometimes it is possible, but with trebs it usually isn’t. With some zergs you’re lucky if you can turn and get the shot to land before it is too late, and that’s assuming you hit with your first shot.

They can’t just reward full rewards for trebbing a bit, because then you’d get 10 people lined up to “take turns trebbing” for full rewards.

I manage to get chests from towers and camps all the time… I chose an unpopular mastery.

lol, that’s hilarious misterdevious. Your username is very appropriate.

Kincaidia.3192:

I don’t macro period, and if I’m sitting on a treb, I’m listening in teamspeak and calling out swords on the map.

Just because you assume someone going to take the lazy route because you would doesn’t mean that they do.

Wow, calling out swords and listening, that’s some epic level of effort.

I wouldnt be on the treb to start with, but my assumption is based on the number of times I watch people, clearly afk, trebbing friendly targets long after it was captured.

The entire karma/wxp train exists because it is easy and lazy way to earn lots of points, it is not a stretch to assume that if you get points and fragments for trebbing a tower all day, folks will do it.

Niim.9260:

Kincaidia.3192:

Niim, “siege monkey”?!? I take actual offense at that. You think it’s fun taking down SMC walls with a treb? No, but I’m sure you enjoy waltzing in after someone does the work.

Godkitten selfish kittens.

No on says you have to set up a treb in an untouchable location and spam #1 until something is destroyed. You could, crazy as this is, set up catapults near the wall and get fights and fun while using the catapults, or maybe even ram the door. In these cases it is 1) not boring 2) close to the fight and thus you will not lose out on credit.

Yes sometimes a treb in these locations makes the most sense given the defense or map strategy, but I fail to see why someone on a treb so far away they cannot get credit, should be rewarded for watching TV while a macro fires a treb for him.

The game needs way less siege monkeys and more fighting, imo.

Ahh so crunching 1111211111121111 at a door…….. whilst in the relative comfort of being hidden amongst the rest of your zerg (who funnily enough are all crunching the same numbers as you cos ya rams, cats etc keep getting spanked by all the oppositions siege weapons) – that’s where the real skill and reward must be aimed…. gotcha.

The players didn’t design WvW they just choose to use the tools that were placed in front of them by ANET.. just out of interest, why did ANET decide to implement treb mastery or trebs /towers &keeps themselves for that matter…
Both PvD and Treb v wall/door are viable tactics in WvW but in some cases one doesn’t get the credit and normally gets a ton of grief from commanders and other zerg members when the treb either aims poor or isn’t being used at all….

Though I prefer to be the one in the Lords room doing the pew pew I can at least see the Op’s point of view.. try it maybe, it can be refreshing.

It should be a system as simple as how much you contribute to the overall assault of the objective. If you are in the event then the time you are in it, how much damage you do and how many players you help defeat and siege/walls/gates/guards you help kill should all be calculated and just have the rewards mailed to you. Honestly, I wish all loot in WvW was just mailed to us because half the time we don’t seem to even get the chance to get it.

now here is what i did. we are facing 2 t1 servers atm and they had a thing that everytime i took down the wall 1 of their zergs ran in and took the tower instead of us.. so ogre wall is down and bg storms in. i ran to the mortar, shot a few fire mortar shells into the lordsroom and boom got a chest. then i continue on the cata to take down the wall again, then jq zerg runs in. so i run back to the mortar and shoot into the lordsroom, boom second chest….i ended up getting 5 chests from that whole thing XD