Guild Wars 2

To stop those accusations before they start, no, my world’s actually winning in WvW this week by a large margin, so it’s not a ‘loser griping’ thing. Also, I didn’t actually lose the second fight.

I’d want to ask experienced WvWers here if any of the three things I noticed today are explainable using normal means. I submitted ingame bug reports already, but I’m not entirely sure if it’s a bug, or players finding some way to hack the client, or some way of playing with existing game mechanics that I’m not aware of.

Here goes:

1. We had 3 players hitting a thief simultaneously. Of course, getting hit for 10,000 by non-backstab autoattacks seemed a bit odd and how the Evaded status comes up for 80% of my attacks also strange, and how someone with such high damage potential can take so much damage from 3 different sources even stranger. However, we managed to reduce him to 10% HP, to which he stealthed – but not before I charged Kill Shot on my rifle. The shot fired into blank air (most users will know it tracks the target even after stealth), and REFLECTED BACK INTO MY FACE causing an instant down and stomp-from-stealth. The strange damage, tanking or evade capabilities are one thing, but what I really want to know is how a thief can reflect projectiles without exiting stealth. As far as I know only Dagger Storm has the ability to do that – except it not only should destealth the player the moment a dagger hits anything as it counts as an attack, and AFAIK is also uncancellable by the user once it’s activated. He clearly wasn’t destealthed, and there weren’t daggers hitting anyone else either.

2. A player attacked a sentry. I killed him. This wouldn’t be very remarkable, except he had a pet named ‘Juvenile Carrion Devourer’. But he was a necromancer from the icon next to his name, not a ranger. The moment my downskill hit the ground, the Juvenile Carrion Devourer also disappeared indicating it was tied to the player. There was no other opposing player in the vicinity for the 15 seconds ish that I approached him, and the Devourer had the same guild tag as the player.

3. When at 20% hp while running away from a zerg through the Hylek region I came across another player, a Warrior, if it matters. He tried to attack, so I fought back, reducing him to 10% hp, before he downed me. One hit would probably down him as well – was intending to use Vengeance to eliminate him and (hopefully) save my own life in the process of the kill, but he jumped into the air when I was downed… and hit the ground with a banner on me before my down skills were available.

That is, he executed the kill finisher in 1 second – using only the final leap-banner down animation phase, without any ‘raise shining hand into the air’ animation phase.

Are any of these three instances explainable under normal circumstances? Any buff, sigil/rune that can make any of these possible?

Just throwing out a few ideas

For #1: It could be that there was more than one person you were fighting. Could have been a Mesmer with the Thief. Otherwise, I guess it’s possible that the thief could have shadow stepped behind you right after the shot fired which tracked him and it ran into you. Just a possibility, I don’t know if that would actually work.

For #3: quickness (frenzy/trait/rune/sigil)

I’m pretty sure I had that number 3 happen to me the other day in PvP in tournament. Sounds to me these are bugs that people are exploiting and not reporting if anything.

Erus Keb.8379:

Just throwing out a few ideas

For #1: It could be that there was more than one person you were fighting. Could have been a Mesmer with the Thief. Otherwise, I guess it’s possible that the thief could have shadow stepped behind you right after the shot fired which tracked him and it ran into you. Just a possibility, I don’t know if that would actually work.

For #3: quickness (frenzy/trait/rune/sigil)

Quickness does double your speed (correct me if I am wrong) yes but it does not make charges skills instant and certainly should not make stomping instant.

As a veteran wvwer, I can come up with some explanations.

1- I’m a nearly unkillable guardian. My build is designed for that. 1v1 I will either win or tie; unless it’s some very rare engineer condi build which will eventually wear me down after several minutes of chase.
I’ve once met a thief which could kill me; so because of my surprise I checked his attacks to see what his build was about.
Unknown hits you for crapload using Cloak and Dagger.
Player hits you for 2k using whatever attack.
Unknown hits you for another kittenton using Cloak and Dagger.
I still believe he wasn’t playing legit. It could be he teamed up with other thieves which were permanently under stealth due to great build and extreme coordination; but I doubt that.
I’ve also met 1 thief which would warp around when moving normally and have his attack speed be much faster without using quickness.
So my 2 cents go to he was cheating as I believe due to thief combat mechanics, it is possible to bypass certain restrictions by hacking which isn’t possible with other classes.

2- Some runes spawn friendlies. It could be that. Or there could be a ranger nearby which you didn’t see.

3- You can boost stomping speed by using quickness. Warriors have an utility for that; right?

Quickness is practically an instant stomp. The difference is very noticeable if you use it.

1- I don’t play my thief much, but I do know Dagger Storm is in fact the only reflect skill the profession has. I don’t know if you would see the daggers while he was stealthed as I’ve never tried, but I do know you can cancel the attack by dodging. Maybe he timed it perfectly to reflect then dodge before throwing a single dagger? It’s the only legitimate explanation I can think of.

2- Nearby ranger hiding around a corner perhaps? If they were in the same guild, and swapped pets as you killed the necro, it would appear as you stated. (pet swap puts it at your side)

3- As others have stated, quickness is the answer. I have tested this thoroughly and can confirm a quickened finish is indeed about a second long.

WvW is already so extreme infested by tons of cheap hackers, it becomes day per day harder to realize, what is still “normal” there, and what not …

Today I found also again some hackers for sure, playing Eles using some kind of Speed Hack as when I fought agaisnt them, they had no Quickness, but where somehow able to spam like half a dozen skills of different elements within like 1 seconds… among them that real long lasting earth skill, that takes some seconds to charge, before the big burst damage comes that hits with a heavy 8 stacks of bleedign also too

and hhose else i fought today agaisnt manage to perform that skill in 1 second, instant burst basically while performign at the same time that fire rush skillwhich got buffed the last tiem and works now for them also like an evade PLUS naturally performing at the same tiem before of that a RTL and that other air skill that launches

When I see these kind of massive overpowered skill spams, agaisnt that is the thief laughable, cause we have a LIMITED ressource… but these ttoal op eles can rince and repeat cycle through their elements and keep on spamming their skills like crazy while having at all times super high damage, self regen and if well played at nearly no damage, beforeyou lie already dead on the ground full with bleedings, burning, chill, blinds, cripples and what not all…

god hate these fricking op bunkers like nothing else xD

Orpheal.8263:

among them that real long lasting earth skill, that takes some seconds to charge

That skill is very fast when it is the one that comes from dodge while using the evasive arcana trait.

Just a few days ago I came across an Ele that had a “beast”, capping a supply camp. I know they can summon elementals, but this one was simply named “beast” and looked like a Necro minion. I was surprised by it but I don’t really know much about Ele so I thought maybe they have some new abilities that make this possible. It’s also interesting to learn about pet swap. So maybe it was legitimate.

Most i find are classes that can make all skills several times in 2 seconds chain, most die to rataliation, but that deppends on class and build also.

1. Perhaps he used stolen whirling axe, if he was far away from you (otherwise the skill would hit you and reveal him). DPS – If this happened pre-patch and you were light class, that dps would be possible even on non backstab attacks. Post-patch, I haven’t seen a single backstab over 10k, the highest so far was 9.5k, most backstabs now hit me (full zerk, medium class) for 4-7k.That coupled with the high evade frames, I’d say he was hacking.

2. I have no idea, guildie runs with pirate runes for the parrot but I don’t know any that give devourer.

3. Quickness

Erus Keb.8379:

Orpheal.8263:

among them that real long lasting earth skill, that takes some seconds to charge

That skill is very fast when it is the one that comes from dodge while using the evasive arcana trait.

It don’t give you 8 stack of bleed( only 1 stack). The dmg is also much lower.

Well anything that is done on client side can be HACKED, so I am not surprise at seeing player perform all type of strange skill . At least those trying to act legal(limited hacking) can be killed or driven off when you outnumbered him 4 to 1 .

That why people avoid PvP Arena.

1. It is theoretically possible for the thief to pop DS while stealthed and remain stealthed so long as their attack doesn’t hit anything. As soon as your tracked kill shot hit the thief, they immediately broke stealth and they could have quickly stopped DS. Pretty remarkable but possible especially if the thief was watching you charge that shot.

2. I would assume you saw a Bone Fiend minion that looks very similar to a carrion devourer.

3. My guess is it was lag. You lagged behind the damage and they started the spike before your system received notice you were downed.

1. Whirling axe. This is the steal ability that thieves get from warriors. It is a melee range AoE that reflects projectiles. If no one was in their melee range he could easily use it to reflect your kill shot while in stealth.

2. Possibly the bone minion? It looks very similar to the ranger devourer pet.

3. As others have said, quickness makes stomps lightning fast. Warriors have access to on demand quickness.

It’s certainly possible people were hacking in your examples, but each one has a legitimate explanation.

#2
You guys don’t know anyone can summon a pet.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ogre_Pet_Whistle

Kill Momma.6127:

#2
You guys don’t know anyone can summon a pet.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ogre_Pet_Whistle

" It cannot be used in WvW"

randomly.6395:

1. Whirling axe. This is the steal ability that thieves get from warriors. It is a melee range AoE that reflects projectiles. If no one was in their melee range he could easily use it to reflect your kill shot while in stealth.

This ability does not reflect projectiles. It is more likely a fluke Dagger Storm that thief used when he saw the warrior charging his rifle shot.

Straegen.2938:

randomly.6395:

1. Whirling axe. This is the steal ability that thieves get from warriors. It is a melee range AoE that reflects projectiles. If no one was in their melee range he could easily use it to reflect your kill shot while in stealth.

This ability does not reflect projectiles. It is more likely a fluke Dagger Storm that thief used when he saw the warrior charging his rifle shot.

The stolen version of Whirling Axe does reflect projectiles. I’ve reflected with it many times, and as a condition thief, it’s the only real use I get out of it.

I don’t play a warrior, but you may be getting confused with the warrior version which does not reflect projectiles, as far as I know.

Orpheal.8263:

WvW is already so extreme infested by tons of cheap hackers, it becomes day per day harder to realize, what is still “normal” there, and what not …

Today I found also again some hackers for sure, playing Eles using some kind of Speed Hack as when I fought agaisnt them, they had no Quickness, but where somehow able to spam like half a dozen skills of different elements within like 1 seconds… among them that real long lasting earth skill, that takes some seconds to charge, before the big burst damage comes that hits with a heavy 8 stacks of bleedign also too

and hhose else i fought today agaisnt manage to perform that skill in 1 second, instant burst basically while performign at the same time that fire rush skillwhich got buffed the last tiem and works now for them also like an evade PLUS naturally performing at the same tiem before of that a RTL and that other air skill that launches

When I see these kind of massive overpowered skill spams, agaisnt that is the thief laughable, cause we have a LIMITED ressource… but these ttoal op eles can rince and repeat cycle through their elements and keep on spamming their skills like crazy while having at all times super high damage, self regen and if well played at nearly no damage, beforeyou lie already dead on the ground full with bleedings, burning, chill, blinds, cripples and what not all…

god hate these fricking op bunkers like nothing else xD

well that not hacking nor anything to do with this thread( i play a d/d ele and yes we have low cd and spam all day)

to OP, most of the staff you said aside from #1 is easily possible.

1. could just been a sigil or rune that summons a per (now shows ur guild next to it)
2. quickness (like said 1 million times before)

KOK.2650:

Erus Keb.8379:

Orpheal.8263:

among them that real long lasting earth skill, that takes some seconds to charge

That skill is very fast when it is the one that comes from dodge while using the evasive arcana trait.

It don’t give you 8 stack of bleed( only 1 stack). The dmg is also much lower.

It is possible for an Elementalist to move while the skill is charging by using lightning flash.

Example at the beginning of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHNw2Re9tSM

stolen ability whirlwind from warrior doesn’t reflect projectiles, it works the same way as as the warrior’s. Dagger storm is the only reflect the thief has access to.

Glaciate.3901:

stolen ability whirlwind from warrior doesn’t reflect projectiles, it works the same way as as the warrior’s. Dagger storm is the only reflect the thief has access to.

It does. … Well actually I took 10 day break. If they have patched something in these days I guess I am mistaken – if not, it still does reflect projectiles back.

Back on topic –
1 – Daggerstorm not possible, unless he activated it for a split second, was lucky not to hit anything, then sheathed weapons/dodged to cancel it. Whirlwind axe is possible. Hacking is also possible answer. (I have a lot of roaming and small scale combat both on thief and on warrior)
2 – No idea.
3 – Could be you lagged(I have had such cases, when they stomp me in like 0.5-1s without quickness, but never cared, always thought it’s lag), could have been something else(quickness, or hacking).

Glaciate.3901:

stolen ability whirlwind from warrior doesn’t reflect projectiles, it works the same way as as the warrior’s. Dagger storm is the only reflect the thief has access to.

I hate to be so direct, but you’re wrong. Stolen Whirlwind Axe will reflect projectiles. As a condi thief, I save it specifically to use as a reflect, as the damage doesn’t do much for me.

The tooltip and wiki even say it will reflect. If you have personal experience with stolen whirlwind axe not reflecting, it’s a bug.

Wraithslicer.7045:

1- I don’t play my thief much, but I do know Dagger Storm is in fact the only reflect skill the profession has.

In fact it is not. The stolen item that you steal from warriors (note OP is a warrior) is Whirling Axe http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Axe_ which also reflects projectiles. I’ve totally used that to reflect back a kill shot from a warrior (although not from stealth).