Guild Wars 2

Title says it all.

VOTE HERE: http://www.strawpoll.me/12569761
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I think it’s extremely unhealthy for WvW; I am seeing more of these pop up around the place especially thanks to sites like Metabattle advertising it plain as day.

The build has been around for a long time even dating back to 2014, but since post-HoT with conditions being ramped up along with powercreep in general this build, although gimmick in it’s own right, still poses a problem in WvW.

It’s unhealthy because the traps do not apply damage once triggered like every other trap utility in the game (which applies reveal, respectively) thus allowing the thief to stay permanently stealthed whilst dishing out these irritable traps and regarding some classes – there is absolutely little to no counter-play unless you drop a Stealth Trap and even then that entire animation alone is just begging for that trapper thief to vomit their condi’s on you whilst you’re stationary and you better hope you got condi removals or you know… blast dat light field boiz.

Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trap

Many reddit threads along with offical Gw2 forum threads sum up the frustrations trying to either fight or escape this build. Here’s just one example:

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5m9efq/something_should_be_done_about_condi_trapper/

I’m not asking for a complete nerf; I’m merely asking for some counter-play to be added in the form of small damage on the traps once procced which should apply the reveal debuff thus allowing us to at least initiate combat with the thief (many attacks in this game require a target, after all).
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EDIT: I am sorry if I have caused confusion with the terms trapper thief and ghost thief. It was to my knowledge (from a year or so ago) that server mates generally called this build “trapper thief” and that’s stuck in my mind since then. For clarity – yes I am talking about ghost thief and I am still adamant in my belief that this build should have counter play added to it.

This is my first ever poll I’ve made on the site so I’m new with how that functions – the poll speaks for itself atm – 70% in favour. Thanks to those who have voted. I know ANet probably won’t acknowledge this plea but it helps to know quite a portion of players agree that the build in it’s current state is unhealthy for WvW and changes should be made to make counter play an option.

Drop your own traps.

As has been pointed out a ridiculous number of times, Ghost Thief is NOT a trap build. Ghost Thief runs exactly one trap and doesn’t use Trapper runes. Pretty much everybody except ANet knows Ghost Thief is a problem and should be fixed. Posting here won’t get ANet’s attention. Try Reddit.

All that needs to happen is make applying a damaging condition cause reveal. That would solve this ridiculous build as well as any builds that might pop up in the future.

Post this in any other section of the forums if you want it noticed.

I play a condi reaper. I switch to staff I put marks on the ground when I see a thief stealthing and stand in the middle of my marks. I have several trapper thief’s die within seconds to place a trap on me. They suffer from not just one condition but many conditions at the same time. I can do from 10k to 30k condition damage within 15 to 30 seconds.

Dragon Hunters, Rangers, Necro’s and others who spec right can be a very big pain to trapper thief using traps and other methods.

So those trapper thief’s out there you days are numbered when other find a solution to deal with you.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqYVl0Mh2mYfTw0JQ/EHIFl+JPhFz/C3w8xbgA4BA-TVyCQBI7BAEu9HqoyPUqEcCnAAvdIAAwRAoe6DKo6PkCYRlVA-w

This is what I would deem a TRAPPER build. It is no where close to being a ghost thief as there no way it can permastealth nor is it advantageous to do so. Traps and trappers runes are used to help allow more of the sneak attacks off pistol one while inflicting their own damage on trigger.

There little in the way of stealth stacking and the build has plenty of ways to counter it.

Traps do not need to apply damage as it would only hurt other builds and traps in general. I have already shown how you can make a GHOST THIEF with no traps at all and no trapper runes.

A trap is a trap and no more “irrittable” when another class uses them and no more “irrittable” then dozens of other skills and abilities.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZQQNAoaVlsMhK3YzTw0Jw/EHwEFvHihZQ/nBwu5/izYEB-T1xCQBVU5XBV/BlKBX2+DA4IA4tDBQ90HQKgFVWB-w

This is a build that allows Perma stealth or close to it. It does not use its weapons for anything but stacking stealth. There no traps in the utility bar albeit one comes from Respite. The respite one can be dropped and this build can still do damage while stealthed.

No trapper runes It not a trapper build. This is a Ghost Thief.

The major difference between trapper thief and Ghost thief, that which leads to all the complaints is not traps or trapper runes. It is the ability to remain stealthed at all times.

This is specific to one weapon set and the Black powder HS combo.

in any case thief is broken beyond believe, anet kept buffing the damage and the defenses now it’s a joke class.

coming from stealth to do massive damage and stealth again or teleport miles away is not a gameplay that is fun to play against. Somebody at anet should have eyes to see it.

anduriell.6280:

in any case thief is broken beyond believe, anet kept buffing the damage and the defenses now it’s a joke class.

coming from stealth to do massive damage and stealth again or teleport miles away is not a gameplay that is fun to play against. Somebody at anet should have eyes to see it.

lol

But putting damage on the traps won’t fully resolve this as you don’t really need traps to keep ghost thief going. Anet need to put a small amount of damage on Bewildering Ambush and possibly Pain Inverter too. I’m not sure damage on caltrops is a good thing bearing in mind that Uncatchable would screw you over if you dodged in stealth. Although, if I dodge in stealth using Bounding Dodger and hit someone I get revealed, so maybe condi Thief shouldn’t be getting such a free ride and Anet should put some actual risk into this build.

Fix ghost thief all you need to do is remove immobile from needle trap an build will not work.

anduriell.6280:

in any case thief is broken beyond believe, anet kept buffing the damage and the defenses now it’s a joke class.

coming from stealth to do massive damage and stealth again or teleport miles away is not a gameplay that is fun to play against. Somebody at anet should have eyes to see it.

The thief class has seen a long string of nerfs to the point it is down to a couple solid weapon sets and neither perform as well as they did last year. Even its hallmark skill took a big shot with the cooldown. D/D, S/D, P/D, S/P are all niche builds at best and mostly go unused. SB is only good for travel. P/P is the only single target weapon set in the entire game across all classes as far as I know. Staff just took a big hit in sPvP that will likely make it into WvW at some point. Nearly every thief has been shoe horned into some D/P variant.

Seriously the class is down to D/P stealth builds with Staff offhand and some a couple condi builds most of which pale in comparison to DH Burn Guardian, Condi Chrono, etc.

Simonoly.4352:

But putting damage on the traps won’t fully resolve this as you don’t really need traps to keep ghost thief going. Anet need to put a small amount of damage on Bewildering Ambush and possibly Pain Inverter too. I’m not sure damage on caltrops is a good thing bearing in mind that Uncatchable would screw you over if you dodged in stealth. Although, if I dodge in stealth using Bounding Dodger and hit someone I get revealed, so maybe condi Thief shouldn’t be getting such a free ride and Anet should put some actual risk into this build.

It would not help to put damage component onto BA.

Ghost thief specs hidden thief. Hidden thief applies damage then hides by design. That is the PURPOSE of the skill. It also how the CnD pre-load and steal combo work when using DA (applying the poison , damage and then stealthing) which is a staple of the d/d power sets and has already been nerfed enough.

So in essence you would break a bunch of other builds and in fact make ghost thief arguably stronger.

How so? Load Basi as an elite as it will now proc off BA and throw a venom on your utility bar to use those added procs to apply that venom. Ghost thief will now be able to garner an interrupt on steal which they can not do now. With hidden thief they still be stealthed after the steal.

Ghost Thiefs have 0 impact on Zerg/GvG combat and 0 presence in the ppt game, and those are the only things Anet balances wvw on.

And besides, there are other specs that are borderline just as annoying as Ghost Thieves (Condi Mesmers, Boon Warriors/Druids, Dragonhunters, etc)

roamzero.9486:

Ghost Thiefs have 0 impact on Zerg/GvG combat and 0 presence in the ppt game, and those are the only things Anet balances wvw on.

And besides, there are other specs that are borderline just as annoying as Ghost Thieves (Condi Mesmers, Boon Warriors/Druids, Dragonhunters, etc)

I’d rather fight any of the classes you sum up there, cause you can see em while fighting, right?

Offair.2563:

I’d rather fight any of the classes you sum up there, cause you can see em while fighting, right?

Correct. No build should exist that most classes have virtually zero counters against it.

A lot of the counters suggested do in fact work. The build on its own is not OP but that not thte issue. The issue is what it brings or takes away from gameplay and how where it at one time a gimmick build one hardly saw, there just more and more around.

Yes you can deal with one but once it 3 and more, no it not possible .

That said any solution can not break legitimate builds as this will just lead to months and more of rebalancing issues which might well introduce another problem and more complaints. Most of the suggestions made to this point will either allow Ghost thief to remain in another form (5 perma stealthed thieves using just confusion and poison is just as bad as those using immob with traps) or just break other sets that already have a hard time competing with d/p.

55 angry trapper users

babazhook.6805:

It would not help to put damage component onto BA.

Ghost thief specs hidden thief. Hidden thief applies damage then hides by design. That is the PURPOSE of the skill. It also how the CnD pre-load and steal combo work when using DA (applying the poison , damage and then stealthing) which is a staple of the d/d power sets and has already been nerfed enough.

So in essence you would break a bunch of other builds and in fact make ghost thief arguably stronger.

How so? Load Basi as an elite as it will now proc off BA and throw a venom on your utility bar to use those added procs to apply that venom. Ghost thief will now be able to garner an interrupt on steal which they can not do now. With hidden thief they still be stealthed after the steal.

Good point. I completely forgot about Hidden Thief and it’s interaction change. As you can tell, I haven’t used Shadow Arts since early 2014