Guild Wars 2

I wanted to bring up an interesting point that I’ve only just noticed about being under-levelled in WvW.

Case in point: I have a L55 mesmer which has been doing WvW since L42. It has points in various siege mastery; not very many but enough. It’s at WXP rank 25 and frankly I didn’t think I’d get this far on a character I’m still learning to master.

The situation is that being under-levelled and a light armour class, as well as being unable to navigate properly out of zergs when a rival zerg attacks (I use arrow keys, not mouse/WASD) presents it’s own problems because I’d take one hell of a beating while trying to support my own server’s other players. Now, having said that, the obvious option is to reduce time in combat until I’m properly levelled and appropriately armoured and weaponed, runes, sigils, you get the idea. I still want to be able to help out my server and work towards the achieves being offered for WvW S2. The option most favourable would be to man siege instead. BTW, rolling with karma trains was all well and good, but S2 Tourny is on now and people have their ‘game-faces’ on.

The problem with this is that there’s apparently a bit of a culture of bullying within certain player’s ranks, where if you don’t have the appropriate level of mastery of certain siege, they’ll quite literally tell you to get kittened. The bottom line for this character is that I want to get it levelled appropriately and quickly, so WvW and a birthday booster and knocking off achieves is ideal.

I have other toons which haven’t seen what WvW is so far, and a couple that have gotten 100% world exploration through there, but they don’t have any WXP ranks as yet (such is the conundrum I’m in since I haven’t seen a lot of WvW in a while). Until the next patch (15th Apr.) I’m going to be stuck in this situation where I want to help out my server and level up my low toon, which now has the most WXP of all my toons.

After the patch hits I may bring out the guardian and steamroll on it for a bit, although it’s never seen WvW before. Having acct-bound WXP will be a blessing, but not until the patch hits, and till then I’m stuck in this situation.

Yep your stuck. Ignore the trolls though. Ideally you can build and use superior siege.

If you don’t have enough mastery, don’t use respective siege weapon. Simple as breathing.

Draygo.9473:

Yep your stuck. Ignore the trolls though. Ideally you can build and use superior siege.

he can use siege but he will do far less damage than anyone who has the correct level and stats for the job. worse, he will die in situations in which a level 80 fully geared player would have lived and rally the enemy which will make everyone elses job that much harder. if you are unwilling to bring a level 80 fully geared character into the tournament please do not make posts looking for sympathy on the forums because someone hurt your feelings. you obviously deserved the lecture you received.

Phoenixlin.8624:

If you don’t have enough mastery, don’t use respective siege weapon. Simple as breathing.

With the exception of rams, if you ran supplies and built it, nobody should be complaining about you manning it unless the siege needs to be so dense where you built that your siege weapon is preventing someone else from building something needed for a critical defense.

One thing you can do is build a ballista in a supply camp and use it to fight off any attackers that show up. Anything more than 3-4 and you’ll probably lose, but even that might buy enough time for reinforcements to show up. Putting 5 WXP into ballista mastery helps a lot. A superior ballista with spread shot can down several opponents in one shot if timed right.

I suppose I should also point out that means WXP masteries and upleveling are violating one of ANet’s more important design concerns, which is that it should never be considered a bad thing to have additional players join to help.

You want to help your server?
Then don’t go wvw until you are geared fully and let a wvw player who is geared get in.
Especially during season.
Reason for getting hate is cos you are not helping your server. Simple. Just leeching for your own benefit.

“The bottom line for this character is that I want to get it levelled appropriately and quickly,”

Want carebear advice?
Take your toon to spvp and practice fighting. You can level it up in no time and learn something about your class. Or go EotM, it’s the new Karma Train and don’t sit in que for a wvw map, just stay there till you ready.

Berk.8561:

Phoenixlin.8624:

If you don’t have enough mastery, don’t use respective siege weapon. Simple as breathing.

With the exception of rams, if you ran supplies and built it, nobody should be complaining about you manning it unless the siege needs to be so dense where you built that your siege weapon is preventing someone else from building something needed for a critical defense.

One thing you can do is build a ballista in a supply camp and use it to fight off any attackers that show up. Anything more than 3-4 and you’ll probably lose, but even that might buy enough time for reinforcements to show up. Putting 5 WXP into ballista mastery helps a lot. A superior ballista with spread shot can down several opponents in one shot if timed right.

I suppose I should also point out that means WXP masteries and upleveling are violating one of ANet’s more important design concerns, which is that it should never be considered a bad thing to have additional players join to help.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Just because you throw the ram doesn’t mean you deserve to use it. Yes you can still use it even without any upgrade., but I’ll call this action SELFISH.

Plus, if you’re following a commander, the action of throwing one siege yourself is called TROLLING because you do not care about the supply count of your group. All you care is manning one siege yourself correct?

These situations happen A LOT in my original server (namely DB) and probably many lower tiers too. I’m now in JQ and impressed about how organized and obedient these T1 servers are. They do not just win by numbers and coverage, they also win by coordination and selfless action.

If you don’t have the mastery and someone around you does, then let them use it. It’s good for everyone around and the server you’re on, which you say you want to help. If you use siege with no mastery, it’s slower for everyone, even you.

Aomine.5012:

Berk.8561:

Phoenixlin.8624:

If you don’t have enough mastery, don’t use respective siege weapon. Simple as breathing.

With the exception of rams, if you ran supplies and built it

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Just because you throw the ram doesn’t mean you deserve to use it. Yes you can still use it even without any upgrade., but I’ll call this action SELFISH.

Plus, if you’re following a commander, the action of throwing one siege yourself is called TROLLING because you do not care about the supply count of your group. All you care is manning one siege yourself correct?

Did you just miss the first words ?

Roe.3679:

If you don’t have the mastery and someone around you does, then let them use it. It’s good for everyone around and the server you’re on, which you say you want to help. If you use siege with no mastery, it’s slower for everyone, even you.

You do realize the op is playing on an uplevel to level it by choice right? If he was putting server first he wouldn’t be on an uplevel when he has geared level 80’s. So its clear he is putting himself first, so this advice wont work. The best place for a person of his mindset is on a superior siege that he built himself. And for him to prioritize putting points into arrow cart mastery. 15 points into arrow cart and you gain quite a bit.

((sniffs)) I must have sprayed on some troll musk or something to attract the kind of insults from this thread. Being destructive by hurling insults at someone clearly not well-versed in WvW (as much as I used to be) doesn’t help anyone, especially yourselves. Take the ego elsewhere.

Draygo’s got the right idea, constructive criticism and advice. Thanks.

Aomine.5012:

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Just because you throw the ram doesn’t mean you deserve to use it. Yes you can still use it even without any upgrade., but I’ll call this action SELFISH.

What were the very first words of my reply? “With the exception of rams,”…

Aomine.5012:

Plus, if you’re following a commander, the action of throwing one siege yourself is called TROLLING because you do not care about the supply count of your group. All you care is manning one siege yourself correct?

What were the next few words of my reply? “if you ran supplies and built it” Does that sound like I’m talking about the scenario you are describing? In fact, I talked about dropping a ballista in a supply camp to hold it against raiders.

Aomine.5012:

These situations happen A LOT in my original server (namely DB) and probably many lower tiers too. I’m now in JQ and impressed about how organized and obedient these T1 servers are. They do not just win by numbers and coverage, they also win by coordination and selfless action.

And that’s precisely why I have absolutely no interested in playing on a T1 server and don’t want ANet forcibly distributing the population between servers. I really have no interest in being someones “obedient” lap-dog. Yes, I’m well aware that being on a ram without mastery or throwing unplanned siege that drains the supplies of an attacking force are a problem, which is why my reply started by saying that rams are an exception and talked about running the supplies to complete the build, but I guess that when you have 100 person queues, you don’t have any room for a cog that’s not part of the machine and I do understand that, so maybe the answer to finding a welcoming server that will let you play the way you want to play is to get out of the top tiers and down to where just about any help is appreciated.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

((sniffs)) I must have sprayed on some troll musk or something to attract the kind of insults from this thread. Being destructive by hurling insults at someone clearly not well-versed in WvW (as much as I used to be) doesn’t help anyone, especially yourselves. Take the ego elsewhere.

Part of the problem is that the top-tiered servers have hundred person queues on maps so that every person who is not optimally contributing to victory is keeping another person that might be from playing for the win. Down at the bottom of the rankings, queues on more than one map are almost non-existent, any and all help is welcome, and you can pretty much play however you want to play with minimal criticism. No, that doesn’t lead to victory against T-1 opponents but it can be a lot of fun. So I recommend considering a transfer to a lower-tiered server where they’ll be more forgiving about non-optimal styles of play and where they often don’t have enough people defending a tower or keep to man all the siege that’s there.

Berk.8561:

And that’s precisely why I have absolutely no interested in playing on a T1 server and don’t want ANet forcibly distributing the population between servers. I really have no interest in being someones “obedient” lap-dog. Yes, I’m well aware that being on a ram without mastery or throwing unplanned siege that drains the supplies of an attacking force are a problem, which is why my reply started by saying that rams are an exception and talked about running the supplies to complete the build, but I guess that when you have 100 person queues, you don’t have any room for a cog that’s not part of the machine and I do understand that, so maybe the answer to finding a welcoming server that will let you play the way you want to play is to get out of the top tiers and down to where just about any help is appreciated.

Trust me, I’ve been in T3 server for 20 months, so I know too well what it’s like.
I was like you, delusional about T3 being more fun and all, but once I transfer to T1, I find everything ALOT more FUN and FAIR at the same time. Much more action, much more fighting, and much more strategic fight that I almost NEVER see in my 20 months when I was in DB. I also learn way more about some pro siege placement that you normally wouldn’t see in lower tiers.

As your offensive comment about being “obedient lap dog”, I disagree with you completely. It’s not that you have to be “obedient lap dog”, is just that there’s just no room for those selfish action because one mistake and you’re overwhelmed by your enemies. Also since there’s A LOT more action going on, people tend to have WAY HIGHER average WvW rank, so most of them have all the siege masteries ready. There’s far less UP-LEVEL taking up space too. Also the Queing is not as bad as most none T1 people made it to be. Even if you do have to wait, there’s A LOT of action going on in EOTM in T1 server too, so you’ll never get bored.

I hope you can keep this conversation civil, instead of this emotional hype against T1 server.

25 points is pretty good for an uplevel.
Would recommend one point to Build, four points to Supply (enough for that random return), and the remaining 20 into whatever siege is respectable.
[Not rams tho, not for an uplevel nor for a mesmer]

What siege do you find yourself using the most?

Golems, I don’t think personal stats matter nor whether you are uplevel, tho as a mesmer you are more useful outside the golem than in it.
Treb-monkey will keep you safe but you won’t level, so no.
Arrowcarts, ought to be plenty of opportunities to use, and plenty of experience to be gained. You can operate in reasonable safety from specific spots.
Catas, lots of opportunities but might need the safety of a zerg.
Other siege (cannons etc) won’t be as useful for levelling, and you’ll be too targetable.

TIL WvW is srs bsns.

If hes actively playing, fighting the enemy, repairing, building siege then there should be no reason to complain. If he was getting in golems and running them into fields then id understand this all.

Aomine.5012:

I was like you, delusional about T3 being more fun and all, but once I transfer to T1, I find everything ALOT more FUN and FAIR at the same time. Much more action, much more fighting, and much more strategic fight that I almost NEVER see in my 20 months when I was in DB. I also learn way more about some pro siege placement that you normally wouldn’t see in lower tiers.

I’m sure it’s more fair because the queues keep the coverage roughly even but what is or isn’t fun is a personal aesthetic issue. One person’s minor concern can be another person’s entire reason to play.

Aomine.5012:

As your offensive comment about being “obedient lap dog”, I disagree with you completely. It’s not that you have to be “obedient lap dog”, is just that there’s just no room for those selfish action because one mistake and you’re overwhelmed by your enemies.

I wasn’t the one who introduced the word “obedient” to the discussion and it’s not mistake that the top word associated from “obedient” on www.wordassociation.org is “dog” (along with “servant”, “child”, and “children” after “good”, which generally refers to obedient dogs and children) or that the synonyms for “obedient” on thesaurus.com include “compliant”, “docile”, “subservient”, “controllable”, “sheeplike”, and “tame.” It’s not really something many adults are eager to see themselves being called, even if obedience can make a military unit run better. Basically, I find the expectation that I be “obedient” offensive in a recreational game.

I don’t engage in recreational activities to be an obedient part of an organization. I’m also not really all that interested in an environment where mistakes cannot be tolerated and beginners are not welcome. Not fun to me. YMMV

Aomine.5012:

Also since there’s A LOT more action going on, people tend to have WAY HIGHER average WvW rank, so most of them have all the siege masteries ready. There’s far less UP-LEVEL taking up space too.

I’m sure the servers in T1 can operate like well-oiled machines, I’m sure there are great players and great play up there, and I’m even sure I could learn some things playing at that level. My problem is with the idea that anyone who doesn’t have a high WvW rank or is playing an up-level character is taking up space and shouldn’t be there.

Nothing screams “not fun” to me more than joining an unforgiving military-like environment where mistakes are not tolerated, beginners are not welcome, and obedience is expected. That’s the image you and others are painting of T1 play here by saying mistakes are disastrous, up-levels and people without mastery have no place, and obedience is wanted.

If you find that sort of play fun, I’m happy you are enjoying yourself, and that’s exactly why I think it’s good that GW2 has tiers in WvW that do have different types of play. And given that I play a non-optimal character (though level 80 with exotic and ascended gear), like to do my own thing (which still includes plenty of selfless dolyak running, upgrade starting, and siege building, which is what I spent last night doing), don’t belong to a serious WvW guild because I don’t want other people telling me when and how to play, and have eclectic masteries (full mortar and ballista but only partial arrow cart and trebuchet), it sounds like you’d likely prefer I not take up space on your server, either, so that difference is likely good for both of us. Down at the bottom of the rankings we welcome just about everyone (except deliberate trolls) because we have plenty of space for more people, so by all means send the people you don’t want our way.

Alacrity.4312:

Treb-monkey will keep you safe but you won’t level, so no.

If you treb into a Lord’s room while a tower or keep is being taken or into an enemy force that’s trying to take one of your towers or keeps and is being fought by your side, you can get experience and loot bags when they die because you are effectively tagging the enemy.

WvW is a team orientated game. There are lots of ways individuals can and do help out. However, attempting to level your character at the detriment of your server isn’t going to win you many friends. Grabbing a ram or hopping on the only siege in a keep when you aren’t traited is hurting your team’s chance of succeeding.

A few tips for helping both yourself and your server:

1) Mesmers are perfect for killing sentries and yaks. Even better, grab a buddy and start flipping camps. You’ll be gaining XP and helping your server.

2) Start putting all your points in either arrow or treb mastery. The poison/supply drain trait for trebs is amazing; you’ll tag dozens of people plus help your team out. Just be willing to jump off if the siege if the commander needs one of the higher level traits (which isn’t very often with trebs or arrow carts).

3) Run supply. This doesn’t mean taking supply from a keep to repair a wall that’s being trebbed. I mean actually run to a camp and back, then fix gates/walls that were being damaged in a fight. This is a slower method, but if the keep is still contested, you’ll be rewarded each time the timer ends. Again, this is a win/win for you and your server.

If you look around, there are many other ways to both level up and help your server out. Just keep in mind if you go the selfish route, your team has every right to be frustrated. If you aren’t helping them when they need it, don’t expect them to help you when you need it.

Running up levels is fine as long as you know the ins and outs of that class, as well as being on voice comms.

I levelled all my toons in wvw cause I find the rest of the game pretty boring except for the occasional living story. All my toons that I play in wvw have at least 20 ranks, highest being around 480 ranks. It’s not being up level that matters, it’s how you contribute to your server.

T1 and T2 is vastly different to other tiers in terms of organisation, which is why people get upset if you mess it up. Shouldn’t be a huge deal in T7 or T8 where every person makes a difference in the server’s performance, during the off-season anyway

Ive never seen someone say get off that AC unless you have mastery. Most people care about getting on a Flame Ram without mastery, but since Flame Rams are only good for tagging a gate, and not players, and heavys should man the rams, you dont really have an issue. Or how about bringing your own siege, dropping a superior arrow cart somewhere, and then you can use it without worry, and take it over anytime.

In wvw they should remove xp and wxp till you are level 80 imo.
Quality of Life on top tiers would improve and could help solve blobbing/karma train.

Play MMO >> Complain about the Massive Multiplayer part even though its in the title >>> ??? >>> Profit

Not sure what the problem is here. Use your discretion to decide when you should get on siege and when you shouldn’t. It’s not hard to figure out that getting on a ram without mastery is only gonna slow your group down from taking the objective and maybe even let the enemy come wipe you. As a matter of fact, I have encountered plenty of people manning siege asking in chat for people with the right mastery to take over. You just gotta know when and how to be helpful in each situation.