Guild Wars 2

No, if, ands or buts about it. Guild Wars 2 WvW sucks for small guilds.

By small I mean those guilds that field under 10 people a night, and who want to engage in PvP activity appropriate to their numbers. (And not for example be the nucleus of a larger zerg. There are many commanders from smaller guilds, at least on my server that are successful).

In the past, in response to this criticism Anet said there are camps to cap and sentries to take. However, this is a PvE solution, and not what small guilds are looking for in WvW. And in the case of a camp, there is no sense waiting around for the PvP to come because it will be a zerg that shows up to take it back.

This has happened because play on the higher tiers has become centred on guild zerg group vs. guild zerg group. There is pressure for smaller guilds to merge into the larger because this is what it takes to succeed in the new environment.

It also gives the larger guilds a say beyond their numbers in how maps should be run. If a smaller guild doesn’t like it, they can’t go off to a corner of the map and do their own thing, because the zergs will be there as well. The only solution is to go to another map and hope the large guild there is not having a negative influence.

For mid-size guilds, say those fielding 15+ a night, it is possible to be an anti-zerg squad, though only against unorganized Pugs. But again this is out of the reach of smaller guilds who want to operate as a unit.

How did the game end up like this? Map design is one factor: they are small, and people happen upon each other too easily. Mechanics like the Downed State allow zergs to rez their members too easily. Even lack of the Trinity contributes, as you can’t take out the healers first, and then work on the rest.

How to fix it? Here I can only guess, but here are some easy changes first. Bigger maps might allow small groups to move about easier and hide. Making nameplates less visible, allowing small group more surprise.

The harder changes involve the combat systems, and here I think drastic measures are required if the dominance of zerg play is to be reduced.

Just reducing the hp of the Downed State in WvW isn’t enough, because anyone can rez. And with enough hands in the zerg, even defeated players are on their feet soon. The most direct fix is reintroducing part of the Trinity and allowing only certain classes to rez. Once those classes are down, attrition takes its toll on the zerg. If that is going too far, make it so defeated players cannot be rezed in WvW. They have to respawn. If the hp of the Downed State is reduced somewhat, making spikes quicker, a small skillful group could find its way to victory.

As has been said in countless MMO studies, it is the social ties that keep people involved in a game. But in WvW, small guilds have a problem creating those ties because they can’t do anything together. And in fact, the current situation actually eats away at those ties, by pressuring people into larger guilds. For those who don’t want to be in a large guild, the only solution often is simply to stop playing WvW.

TL;DR: GW2 WvW sucks for small guilds.

For 1: You are on a higher tier server, that automatically means there will be more people, if you want to be more effective go to a lower tier.

2) Since you’re in NA, transferring to mid/Low tiers in EU will make you a lot happier, there is much more you can accomplish as a small guild, you can ninja things, etc.
There are less people online and you can do a lot more. May I suggest Ruins of Surmia to you ? We could really use some night time help here, we lose a lot of objective because we only have a few people online at night. And you would be very effective and helpfull.

3) if you could specialise in ninja tactics, you could be more effective, maybe not in higher tiers, but lower tiers, definitely.

Lastly, no, the WvW in lower tiers isn’t extinct, the flame burns fiercely there too.

When two PUG zergs fight 10 man guild group can make huge difference.

Though I agree with you and what you say to an extent, I will say that small well organized guilds can easily wipe a zerg double their size. Just look at guilds like RedGuard and groups like them. It is possible.. It just requires discipline, superior communication/organization and class builds.

Though I do understand not all guilds wish to be “super serious” inside of WvW, but it can be done! Choking off supply camps and holding off enemy reinforcements is something a small group/guild can do rather easily and can benefit their teams assaults a lot.

Think you would definitely find more success in lower tiers.

However, the map design does present a conundrum here. It is true that opening up the maps more would probably allow small groups to accomplish more, but if you do that, how do you prevent the game from becoming musical keeps. Warhammer suffered from this, where a lot of times groups would just circle each other capping the same keeps and never fighting. The tight map structure in GW2 allows an actual front to develop in the warfare, such that you have to advance on the map more as in a traditional war, one step at a time taking territory. Back capping or raids deep into enemy territory is certainly possible, even to ninja a garrison, but it is not easy, nor should it be.

Why not work with larger guilds? Not an alliance but temporary cooperation.

Most if not all of the high tier servers have community TeamSpeak where you should be able to meet commanders from the larger guilds and organize a night where you work with them and split the command.

Personally when my guild is not running as a group I dislike following commanders from other guilds unless they’re on the community TeamSpeak. Everyone is so afraid of spies that no one uses map chat and I am mindlessly following a blue dot on the map because they are communicating nothing about their objectives unless we’re on VOIP of some kind.

Even on a reset night you’re the perfect number to be an effective response team… If you put yourself in communication with other commanders you could be out responding to emergencies and so on and call for reinforcements from the other commanders if necissary… Let’s say you flip a supply camp and a zerg is incoming, call out for 10 more people and now your 10 is 20.

It can suck a lot less for small guilds that are in communication with the bigger ones and I don’t mean following their orders, I mean working with them… You may even get to a point that when the bigger guild has no commanders available their members will follow you.

if your attacking you ALWAYS must have a larger force to take a tower/keep. however, you can do an AMAZING job defending with 10 ppl. my guild had 10 ppl in wvw at the time of this photo, and we did this. id say thats making a BIG difference, when you wipe a zerg of this size with 10 people ( 9 AC and a cannon). your main problem is, i suspect, you are not understanding how awesome DEFENDING is, instead you are only attacking. this isnt a bad thing, but its only half the aspect of wvw.

A small group – working together with a big group does wonders in wvw. Like a big group servering as a distraction for a small group to ninja cap a tower/keep/garison.

Even a small group has their own purpose.

Likewise the above posters.

A small well drilled, tactically driven group, with excellent class knowledge can be devastating to far larger groups I’ve been in 15man groups that felled 40man zergs. They can also be put to excellent use on lower tier servers by pushing towers/camps/keeps when your opponents are already stretched.

It sucks in T1/T2/T3 but works fine in the rest of them.

If you know your position in WWW as small guild make little thing as butterfly effect.
Your effect is little but it make a big effect in future.

There’s 40 people in my guild, so we’re small by a lot of standards. When we have at least 5 in WvW, we will go around and capture camps, try to ninja towers, etc. We oftentimes die hilariously, but we figure that if a zerg is on our little 5 man, they aren’t anywhere else, bothering the main zerg. Small group play is possible in every server imo, and actually plays a large part in its success.

Have a small guild? Make a hammer train!

4 warriors, 2 guards, 2 mesmers, 2 thieves.

Have your group together? Now run at a zerg!

Warriors gain adrenaline, one mesmer mass invis., 1 guard empowers, 1 guard grabs people with the sword and yanks people into the love circle, hammer bash them, daggerstorm, fear/stomp, and lol as a zerg runs away towards the nearest keep.

Uncapping max targets on AOE will vastly improve small groups. 20 people can put 100% damage on a 5 man, while a 5 man can only put 25% damage on the 20 man. This is not only forcing players to merge into large zergs, but making it more advantageous to zerg. Uncapping max targets on AOE will force players to watch their surroundings, and play smarter when fighting other zergs.

Current mechanics don’t force players to think about rushing into a mass of enemy players because they realize that the damage is likely spread out amongst other players around them. If the AOE was uncapped then small groups contribute MORE to the overall war effort.

On a lot of servers commanders usually have a, for lack of better term, special operations team. This team goes around back-capping supply camps, killing dolyaks, and stragglers. Imagine if this team could actually put a dent in an enemy zerg if they executed a well timed flank on the back lines. Currently small groups can’t do this effectively. They can jump into a fight, knock down a few players, maybe stomp a couple, and have to back out. If they could be rewarded for executing a great strategy, and the other zerg punished for not allowing it to happen there would be a lot more exciting tactical fights and interesting strategic fights. By tactical I mean small area, like skirmishes and open field fights. Strategic being big picture fighting and the overall war effort.

TLDR: Uncap AOE to balance zergballs and small groups, force players to be aware of their surroundings, and make the tactical/strategic war more exciting.

Small guilds are excellent for ninja teams, and for defensive teams to hold objectives. Of course, if you’re in a guild only group fielded by a small guild and want to engage in zerg v zerg you will have a hard time, but there is more to WvW than bloody zerg fights in the open battlefield. WvW is a cooperative effort- try and band together without small guilds when you want to zerg bust.

Nonsense I say! Quality over quantity any day. You can do ALOT with 10 good players. I´d recommend that you watch some Redguard clips, probably the best wvw guild ingame atm.

I am sorry you are not having fun on TC. Have you tried getting on the server wide mumble? A group of <10 people is perfect as a havoc squad and are extremely useful during big pushes. I know our guild runs one exclusivly during pushes just to take camps/scout and another group as tower defense. I know that isn’t the most fun but it really helps. I know when we are running our pushes we are coordinating with other guilds on the map we are pushing and on other maps as well. Maybe you could try to join up with another ninja team and run together. That way you would have bigger numbers and be able to handle a smaller/medium size zerg.

It is def worth getting on the serverwide mumble though to try to coordinate with the other guilds on the map. It will also give you some idea of who is where so you can choose a map that may be less populated.

Unfortunatly right now it is near impossible to find any time right now when there isn’t a huge SoR presence on any map which could be discouraging. In the next couple weeks everything should start to even out and it should get easier for the smaller guilds maybe.

Thrumdi.9216:

No, if, ands or buts about it. Guild Wars 2 WvW sucks for small guilds.

By small I mean those guilds that field under 10 people a night, and who want to engage in PvP activity appropriate to their numbers. (And not for example be the nucleus of a larger zerg. There are many commanders from smaller guilds, at least on my server that are successful).

In the past, in response to this criticism Anet said there are camps to cap and sentries to take. However, this is a PvE solution, and not what small guilds are looking for in WvW. And in the case of a camp, there is no sense waiting around for the PvP to come because it will be a zerg that shows up to take it back.

This has happened because play on the higher tiers has become centred on guild zerg group vs. guild zerg group. There is pressure for smaller guilds to merge into the larger because this is what it takes to succeed in the new environment.

It also gives the larger guilds a say beyond their numbers in how maps should be run. If a smaller guild doesn’t like it, they can’t go off to a corner of the map and do their own thing, because the zergs will be there as well. The only solution is to go to another map and hope the large guild there is not having a negative influence.

For mid-size guilds, say those fielding 15+ a night, it is possible to be an anti-zerg squad, though only against unorganized Pugs. But again this is out of the reach of smaller guilds who want to operate as a unit.

How did the game end up like this? Map design is one factor: they are small, and people happen upon each other too easily. Mechanics like the Downed State allow zergs to rez their members too easily. Even lack of the Trinity contributes, as you can’t take out the healers first, and then work on the rest.

How to fix it? Here I can only guess, but here are some easy changes first. Bigger maps might allow small groups to move about easier and hide. Making nameplates less visible, allowing small group more surprise.

The harder changes involve the combat systems, and here I think drastic measures are required if the dominance of zerg play is to be reduced.

Just reducing the hp of the Downed State in WvW isn’t enough, because anyone can rez. And with enough hands in the zerg, even defeated players are on their feet soon. The most direct fix is reintroducing part of the Trinity and allowing only certain classes to rez. Once those classes are down, attrition takes its toll on the zerg. If that is going too far, make it so defeated players cannot be rezed in WvW. They have to respawn. If the hp of the Downed State is reduced somewhat, making spikes quicker, a small skillful group could find its way to victory.

As has been said in countless MMO studies, it is the social ties that keep people involved in a game. But in WvW, small guilds have a problem creating those ties because they can’t do anything together. And in fact, the current situation actually eats away at those ties, by pressuring people into larger guilds. For those who don’t want to be in a large guild, the only solution often is simply to stop playing WvW.

TL;DR: GW2 WvW sucks for small guilds.

Switch to a lower tier Server and you will enjoy it more. Come to Northern Shiverpeaks. Small groups make a huge difference. In facct 10 is a good size for just about anything here. You ought to consider it.

A small group can turn certain supply camps into a kill zone in a very short time and at the same time you distract that enemy zerg so yours can slam a point hard.

Just going in to flip the Quaagies can interrupt a zerg vs zerg fight while everyone freaks that their waypoint is suddenly contested.

There is lots for small guilds to do.

TheDevilWithinU.7092:

Though I agree with you and what you say to an extent, I will say that small well organized guilds can easily wipe a zerg double their size. Just look at guilds like RedGuard and groups like them. It is possible.. It just requires discipline, superior communication/organization and class builds.

Though I do understand not all guilds wish to be “super serious” inside of WvW, but it can be done! Choking off supply camps and holding off enemy reinforcements is something a small group/guild can do rather easily and can benefit their teams assaults a lot.

I have ran with RedGuard and they have lots of videos. There communication is brilliant, 12 man team, i have seem it dominate zergs of over double the number (pugs). The ability to res, helps them massively.

There’s a lot that a small group can do as long as you’re organized. Red Guard’s bay capture video is a really good example of this.

I really appreciate all the replies, and the advice that has been given in this thread. From what I can see the replies break down to these, so I will try to answer them.

1) PvE events like capping camps are very important to the server victory.

Agreed, but they are still PvE, and on the higher tiers a zerg follows inevitably, meaning the resulting PvP is not worth sticking around for.

2) Move to a lower tier server.

The problem with nothing for small guilds to do is a result of the map design and the combat systems. It is incipient as soon as the WvW population reaches a certain size. There is no telling if a lower tier server will become flavour of the month to the large guilds and suddenly start experiencing these problems. Paid transfers won’t stop this, as transfers to lower tiers will be cheap.

Also, our guild has been on the Unofficial RP server Tarnished Coast since launch and there is no way we can move it.

3) Examples of non-zerg groups doing well in PvP.

All the examples given of guilds like Red Guard doing very well are in 10+ groups. As I said in the OP, these 10+ groups (I gave the number around 15) can do very well against PUG zergs, and other 10+ groups like them who are also hunting zergs. However a guild group under 10, say around 5-6 just cannot do those things.

4) Use Siege to Defend Keeps

Using siege can be fun, and so is defending keeps. However, using the 3 skills on the Ballista does not compare to the satisfaction of playing your class to the fullest against a good opponent.

5) Join up with other small guilds to get enough to be an anti-zerg group.

We have gotten together with some of our close friends from other small guilds on the server on various reset nights. It is usually a blast. However, getting together an anti-zerg squad like Red Guard on an ad hoc basis like this is just impossible. I’m just skeptical a cross-guild group can reach that level of coordinated play.

If there were objectives that encouraged PvP for groups in the <10 range, that would be great. And it is strange it doesn’t exist in WvW, because that small group content is what PvE is all about in GW2.

Thrumdi,

You really need to get on the server wide mumble, it is for everyone in WvW on the server, you can even get your own guild channel set up on it. At any given time there is likely to be around 100 people on that mumble and it is divided into BL’s. It is really easy to get with another group or start a group with 2-3 guilds and run your own small zerg or ninja group. We are a pretty big guild and we join up with other big guilds on push nights a lot of times to get coordinated with them. With everyone in mumble it is really easy to get coordinated into a good group.

Trust me, we know how much a small group can do

However we’re looking for balance here.

WvW is not PvP. PvP is PvP.

WvW was meant to give tasks to everyone on a server from PvP to PvE which is why it is included in the map completion. They wanted people in WvW. Supply may be PvE but at the same time you need the supply to fortify towers and build Siege so supplies are a required component of WvW. The main objective of WvW is to gain points by capturing towers/camps/keeps. If you are saying you don’t want to do Camps (which helps the server) or defend towers with siege ( the most effective against zergs ) then what you are really saying is “WvW” is not for me, I like PvP. In WvW you get badges for kills but that doesn’t equate to helping your server which is capping and holding territory.

People who work in small man groups need to take yaks, sentries, and camps to deny the supply of the other teams. It’s pretty much a must. TC did well yesterday keeping SoR from upgrading the TC keep. That has a huge impact so they couldn’t upgrade long range weapons.

You don’t like that then small groups need to scout and call out zergs. It also needs to deny the zerg supply. Zergs don’t form as a mass, it pulls in trailing players as they rally. If you camp between respawn and zerg ball you can kill the zerg supply as it’s moving. For example, when SoR zerg was being denied at QL or Durios, players were returning from SM. It would be very easy to cap them as they were running back. I would hate to see TC spec’d with glass cannon rifle warriors sniper shooting people leaving SM.

Lastly small groups NEED to hold smaller towers as it’s own forces take others. It may deny you your skills but it’s the most effective means of keeping a tower. Points matter, towers matter.

WvW is fine for small guilds however what I am reading is “I want to Player kill against moderately sized forces with my 5 man team.” That’s not WvW because that is what PvP was meant to be.

Thiefz.3695:

WvW is not PvP. PvP is PvP.

snip
WvW is fine for small guilds however what I am reading is “I want to Player kill against moderately sized forces with my 5 man team.” That’s not WvW because that is what PvP was meant to be.

That’s not entirely true. sPvP is built around point control, not player killing; if there were deathmatch PvP maps available, then you’d have a point, even if it is a small one.
The issue with that is it does not fill the “roaming PvP” role many players are looking for, with PvP maps being such confined spaces.
I can understand that not everyone has played RvR style games in the past and that many of those fail to grasp the concept of 8v8 (or in this case 5v5) roaming PvP. For some of us though, it’s the only PvP worth playing.

I suppose my point was that structured pvp where the odds are more balanced is the only way to get around the zerg effect that happens in WvW. You do get points in sPvP per kill which helps get to the 500 point goal. In that realm, a PK is actually worth something to the team where in WvW a badge doesn’t help the server.

There have been many points as to how a roaming group can be an assistance to the team but at the end of the day, WvW was meant to cater to ALL players not just the PvP group which means that not everyone will find what they want in the game. Nature of the beast.

I can see how someone that actually cares about the server rankings would not see the point of what the OP is looking for. There are many of us, though, that play WvW simply for the roaming PvP and care nothing for the ranking system or objectives. T he way we play the game is no less valid than that of those who dedicate all their time and resources to trying to rank their server up in WvW, just different.

My suggestion to the OP is to just give it some time. Both DAoC and WAR were extremely zergy in their early days. It wasn’t until the game had matured that the elite roaming groups really took off.

Adaneshade.2409:

I can see how someone that actually cares about the server rankings would not see the point of what the OP is looking for. There are many of us, though, that play WvW simply for the roaming PvP and care nothing for the ranking system or objectives.

Seems a dumb way to play when you are never going to get a fair fight. Roamers lose to bigger numbers, whine zerg, but seem fine when its them with the numbers, ganking smaller numbers. If you have 5 and run into 8, is that a fair roam fight? Probably only if you win. The odds of however many you have, be it 3, 5, or 8 running into a perfectly even fight, that is completed without more from either side interfering in WvW is miniscule. But yet they still just bleat endlessly on these forums about it as if this is not understood.

Believe Colin talked about instituting custom arena style matches down the line, hopefully, and that can be the solution and end of the pollution about this.

DaoC and WAR had dedicated roaming groups because the core mechanics of WvW in those games were left wanting, I would say failed actually, and many didn’t care about it. That is not the case in GW2.

As others have said, the best thing you can do is get on the server mumble and open communications with others guilds/commanders. Not only can you participate in advanced tactics against zergs, but these guys are an excellent resource for tracking enemy zergs, so you can evade them and strike where it’s needed most, and you reduce the risk of slamming into a zerg.

And if you want to get into the bigger action, you still can. A small hit ’n run team in a coordinated strike (again, talk the commander/zerg leader on your server or even another small guild) against the backside of a zerg pitched in battle can turn the battle like nothing else, esp if they are PUGs.

Dynnen.6405:

TLDR: Uncap AOE to balance zergballs and small groups, force players to be aware of their surroundings, and make the tactical/strategic war more exciting.

Heh, Anet already said they are reducing AOE, so I seriously doubt they do anything to strengthen it, but I like your idea. Maybe increase the max targets when you have the outmanned buff would be a good option.

Thiefz.3695:

WvW is not PvP. PvP is PvP.

WvW was meant to give tasks to everyone on a server from PvP to PvE which is why it is included in the map completion. They wanted people in WvW. Supply may be PvE but at the same time you need the supply to fortify towers and build Siege so supplies are a required component of WvW. The main objective of WvW is to gain points by capturing towers/camps/keeps. If you are saying you don’t want to do Camps (which helps the server) or defend towers with siege ( the most effective against zergs ) then what you are really saying is “WvW” is not for me, I like PvP. In WvW you get badges for kills but that doesn’t equate to helping your server which is capping and holding territory.

People who work in small man groups need to take yaks, sentries, and camps to deny the supply of the other teams. It’s pretty much a must. TC did well yesterday keeping SoR from upgrading the TC keep. That has a huge impact so they couldn’t upgrade long range weapons.

You don’t like that then small groups need to scout and call out zergs. It also needs to deny the zerg supply. Zergs don’t form as a mass, it pulls in trailing players as they rally. If you camp between respawn and zerg ball you can kill the zerg supply as it’s moving. For example, when SoR zerg was being denied at QL or Durios, players were returning from SM. It would be very easy to cap them as they were running back. I would hate to see TC spec’d with glass cannon rifle warriors sniper shooting people leaving SM.

Lastly small groups NEED to hold smaller towers as it’s own forces take others. It may deny you your skills but it’s the most effective means of keeping a tower. Points matter, towers matter.

WvW is fine for small guilds however what I am reading is “I want to Player kill against moderately sized forces with my 5 man team.” That’s not WvW because that is what PvP was meant to be.

I don’t know if you’ve done any small group fighting, it sounds as if you haven’t. Small groups are getting run over by zergs all the time for 2 reasons. Maps are too small and AOE is capped at 5. Small groups don’t threaten large groups at all. The only way a small group can effectively change the fight is by biting off 5-10 man chunks of a zerg, manage to not dying with 20+ people spaming at them, prevent the enemy from reviving downed/stomped players, and repeat the effect.

Pendragon.8735:

Adaneshade.2409:

I can see how someone that actually cares about the server rankings would not see the point of what the OP is looking for. There are many of us, though, that play WvW simply for the roaming PvP and care nothing for the ranking system or objectives.

Seems a dumb way to play when you are never going to get a fair fight. Roamers lose to bigger numbers, whine zerg, but seem fine when its them with the numbers, ganking smaller numbers. If you have 5 and run into 8, is that a fair roam fight? Probably only if you win. The odds of however many you have, be it 3, 5, or 8 running into a perfectly even fight, that is completed without more from either side interfering in WvW is miniscule. But yet they still just bleat endlessly on these forums about it as if this is not understood.

Believe Colin talked about instituting custom arena style matches down the line, hopefully, and that can be the solution and end of the pollution about this.

DaoC and WAR had dedicated roaming groups because the core mechanics of WvW in those games were left wanting, I would say failed actually, and many didn’t care about it. That is not the case in GW2.

I agree that zergs are a necessity in the meta and a part of the game that should not go away completely. However, I have never, nor will I ever complain about dying to larger numbers.
Part of being in a roaming group is picking your battles, outnumbered 2 to 1 is pretty doable, even in this game, much more than that and just avoiding the fight all together is more prudent. The OP was saying that he never sees other groups of equivalent size roaming (5v8 I’d consider a perfectly fair fight regardless of the side I was on).

I, nor anyone truly into roaming PvP, will be interested in anything done inside the sPvP world. The maps are simply too small and confining to truly use tactical flanking, extending, and positioning; the penalty for death is too light as the run back is not long enough; and the sides are always evenly matched (number-wise)

The truly skilled PvPers don’t want it to be fair all the time. Nothing quite beats the feeling of defeating a much larger force due to your group’s PvP prowess.

We fight up to 15/20ish and win sometimes, 12-15 win often in our “8-man.” We play dirty, and play to win, while helping our team scout/take/reduce objectives. Most of the time our only threat is another small guild group of our size on the other team.

As an organised group of players, it is your duty to to ensure that the zerg can keep on zergin – that means you need to defend hills when the zerg is busy at bay, take camps when the zerg is taking a tower, run supply when the zerg is aoeing off the walls and be the tipping balance when the zerg finally breaks through a wall or gate.

Honestly, it you feel that you and your guildies arent being productive in wvw, youre doing it very wrong

Small guilds do fine.

I see where you are going with this but my guild The Ferg Mob, we captured the entire southern half of the red team borderlands and the rightmost keep (EH) single-handily and we could have captured the other keep too, and we did but that was when other people came from other guilds, not necessarily organized with each other, just randoms, so I won’t count that as my guild’s doing. We only had about 10 people within the map in my guild.

If your small group is having difficulties, then spend some time patroling off the beaten path. Roads are far too open and clear. Communicate with active commanders and pay attention to the map/team chat to figure out where the zerg (both enemy and yours) is. You’ll want to be anywhere but where either zerg is.

Finding the enemy teams’ active waypoints and finding tactically usable terrain in a straight line between the waypoint and their zerg denies reinforcement very easily and swings the fight in your team’s favor quite often. With the terrain advantage in open field combat, you can typically hold off 1:4 odds, and if a 5-man group is keeping 20 enemies busy, you’ve already done your job. Whatever it is you’re doing, if you get zerged, you’ve already won.

Sure the armor repair costs are higher, but your badge earn rate should be significantly higher as well as your XP. Badges are worth about 1 silver apiece because of siege prices, and each skill point is worth about 57 silver based on a couple profitable trade post strategies.

Before I had my build figured out, I stuck to zerg surfing and netted maybe 8-10 badges/hour and 2-3 levels/night. After I polished up my build, my guild (3 active people) and a couple friends started roaming to apply backfield pressure on whichever side was trying to push our side of the EB map. Others might not get similar results right off the bat, but I’m earning about 15-20 badges/hour and 8-9 skill points/night. That’s easily in excess of 5g earned/night even without taking (garbage) loot into consideration.

Even if you don’t like the answers people are giving, it doesn’t mean those aren’t answers to your question. There is alot for small guilds to do, but if absolutely none of that interests you then you are exactly right.

If nothing else just look around for a group of PiNK and kill with us, or ask us how you can help. We constantly have to split our numbers because noone outside of the guild volunteers to just watch a camp or help siege up a keep. We got used to this sort of small guild help in T3 and have really lacked it in T2.

hmmmm actually AVTR is a really small guild and can take out a zerg of 35-40 and our guild roams around with 8 to 10 people aswell and we get a lot done! We destroy zergs twice our seize!

Expample: AVTR

Example PRO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VLq1FDp9gI&list=PLqbVYxfA89UMv5OSa94FHbA2raTSkQIig&index=60