Guild Wars 2

In order to mitigate the current zerg mentality a little, and to make it a bit more worthwhile to try and defend things, I think there should be something like a DPS cap on doors and walls. Perhaps you can only do so much damage per second to walls or doors, no matter how much siege or PvDoorers you have, or maybe you get diminishing returns (e.g. instead of 10 Omega golems doing 10x as much damage as 1 Omega, they can only do can only do 4x as much).

At the moment, it is extremely difficult to guard even a fully upgraded keep against superior forces. A map jumping super-zerg can wipe out hours worth of work yak walking and upgrading and defending on the BL’s way too quickly.

I think this idea will bring a little more balance between offense and defense in WvW. The biggest problem I see is reduced rewards in WvW, which should be mitigated by significantly increased rewards for player kills, including a chance at ascended materials.

I’d like to know what the rest of the WvW community thinks. I’m on a low-mid tier server, and don’t know how this would fly higher tiers.

I think they should get rid of PvD at all, doesnt make sense you can burst throuigh it without siege, making siege and supplies completely unnecesary, or at least a dmg reduction on upgraded, like 1dmg each hit. Make people work and think about capping instead of mindlessly rubbing face on the gate and getting away with it.

Why we cant damage walls with our hammers and grenades, no idea.

the thing is, if you reduce the DPS, then bigger groups will be necessary to destroy a gate or wall. meaning now map blobs will become absolutely necessary to take an objective.

Is this what you want ? Having no choice but to run in a qued map blob ? Never being able to strategically hit simoultaneous objectives to ninja another objective ?

Do you really want to destroy viability of havoc teams ? And what about every server below T2-T3 ? What do you think happens to servers that can field only 15-20 people per map (Bronze league) if that ? Will they be able to cap anything at all if defenders will now have an hour to react instead of 5 minutes ?

this is a very bad idea which would destroy the strategic / tactical elements of WvW and be very harmful to servers that are not population stacked.

Tongku.5326:

the thing is, if you reduce the DPS, then bigger groups will be necessary to destroy a gate or wall. meaning now map blobs will become absolutely necessary to take an objective.

Is this what you want ? Having no choice but to run in a qued map blob ? Never being able to strategically hit simoultaneous objectives to ninja another objective ?

Do you really want to destroy viability of havoc teams ? And what about every server below T2-T3 ? What do you think happens to servers that can field only 15-20 people per map (Bronze league) if that ? Will they be able to cap anything at all if defenders will now have an hour to react instead of 5 minutes ?

this is a very bad idea which would destroy the strategic / tactical elements of WvW and be very harmful to servers that are not population stacked.

Perhaps I should be more clear: I hope my solution will do exactly the opposite. What I suggest is a DPS cap, e.g. if 10 people can take down a door in 100 seconds, 50 people could only take a door in 50 seconds instead of 20 seconds. This could be implemented by capping the amount of damage that could be done to a door or wall in one second, or by reducing the effectiveness of attacks on the door/wall if its taking a lot of damage very quickly. This would essentially have no effect on small groups ninja-ing a keep or tower, but would slow down super-zergs that cause doors melt in a few seconds. This would also limit the functionality of 40 strong Omega golem rushes (IMO the effort that goes into building an Omega zerg is too little to justify the ability to turn whole map of upgraded keeps as quick as is currently possible). My hope is that this would help provide some defense against blobs while still not making them ineffective.

Dirac.1307:

Tongku.5326:

the thing is, if you reduce the DPS, then bigger groups will be necessary to destroy a gate or wall. meaning now map blobs will become absolutely necessary to take an objective.

Is this what you want ? Having no choice but to run in a qued map blob ? Never being able to strategically hit simoultaneous objectives to ninja another objective ?

Do you really want to destroy viability of havoc teams ? And what about every server below T2-T3 ? What do you think happens to servers that can field only 15-20 people per map (Bronze league) if that ? Will they be able to cap anything at all if defenders will now have an hour to react instead of 5 minutes ?

this is a very bad idea which would destroy the strategic / tactical elements of WvW and be very harmful to servers that are not population stacked.

Perhaps I should be more clear: I hope my solution will do exactly the opposite. What I suggest is a DPS cap, e.g. if 10 people can take down a door in 100 seconds, 50 people could only take a door in 50 seconds instead of 20 seconds. This could be implemented by capping the amount of damage that could be done to a door or wall in one second, or by reducing the effectiveness of attacks on the door/wall if its taking a lot of damage very quickly. This would essentially have no effect on small groups ninja-ing a keep or tower, but would slow down super-zergs that cause doors melt in a few seconds. This would also limit the functionality of 40 strong Omega golem rushes (IMO the effort that goes into building an Omega zerg is too little to justify the ability to turn whole map of upgraded keeps as quick as is currently possible). My hope is that this would help provide some defense against blobs while still not making them ineffective.

40+ omega rushes require great effort, coordination, and many hours to set-up. Often you have to take objectives on other maps to get the supplies needed. And attacks require LOTS of coordination and tactics. I do not see as an issue due to effort vs reward being balanced in this regard.

I have been on both sides of such rushes, and have both been unsuccsesfully defending, and wiping the 40+ omegas. Last time we literally wiped a map blob with 40+ omegas on Langor (though QL got taken). So there really is a risk vs reward here which appears to be balanced. Do not see it as a problem.

Tongku.5326:

40+ omega rushes require great effort, coordination, and many hours to set-up. Often you have to take objectives on other maps to get the supplies needed. And attacks require LOTS of coordination and tactics. I do not see as an issue due to effort vs reward being balanced in this regard.

I have been on both sides of such rushes, and have both been unsuccsesfully defending, and wiping the 40+ omegas. Last time we literally wiped a map blob with 40+ omegas on Langor (though QL got taken). So there really is a risk vs reward here which appears to be balanced. Do not see it as a problem.

I don’t think this balance is achieved. In my experience, the scales tilt too far in favor of the offense. This is why I think my suggestion would work. Add some damage mitigation to doors and walls and if its too much, scale it back. Currently, defense is simply not rewarding enough for how difficult it is. Ten people who each invest five hours in preparing a keep is completely over run by a fifty man zerg who can melt a door before it even goes contested.

Dirac.1307:

Tongku.5326:

40+ omega rushes require great effort, coordination, and many hours to set-up. Often you have to take objectives on other maps to get the supplies needed. And attacks require LOTS of coordination and tactics. I do not see as an issue due to effort vs reward being balanced in this regard.

I have been on both sides of such rushes, and have both been unsuccsesfully defending, and wiping the 40+ omegas. Last time we literally wiped a map blob with 40+ omegas on Langor (though QL got taken). So there really is a risk vs reward here which appears to be balanced. Do not see it as a problem.

I don’t think this balance is achieved. In my experience, the scales tilt too far in favor of the offense. This is why I think my suggestion would work. Add some damage mitigation to doors and walls and if its too much, scale it back. Currently, defense is simply not rewarding enough for how difficult it is. Ten people who each invest five hours in preparing a keep is completely over run by a fifty man zerg who can melt a door before it even goes contested.

I disagree and I’m sorry man but I think you are confusing the issues. You are either playing on a server which is undermanned/outmanned in a time zone where you are facing population imbalance, or you are playing on a server which is unable or unwilling to respond in time.

40 Omegas are unlikely to escape the eyes of your scouts. Given the T3 status of a keep / tower, that gives you enough time to call reinforcements to your map to even the odds, I have been there done that many many times and continue to do so.

Now if you are on a server where the help refuses to help, its a seperate issue.

If the stuation was reversed and there were 10 omegas without fleshies support and 50 defenders, your argument could be turned around and it can be said that its unfair and the hit points, defenses on walls / gates need to be reduced because its unbalanced and impossible to take a keep defended by 50 with 10 omegas. Thus again, the issue is balanced.

They just need to increase the reward for defenses.

There’s already kinda diminishing returns for placing excessive siege in that placing more siege reduces the amount of time it takes to break down the gate/wall by less each time. For example, if you have one ram up, placing another ram will make the gate go down twice as fast as it otherwise would (ignoring auto attack dps from players). Now, if you place a third ram, it doesn’t speed it up twice as fast like it does when you already have one ram up. At some point, you are just blowing money.

With a 40 omega rush, that costs 6,000 supply and 40 gold so it’s not like it should be easy to stop a rush that’s that expensive. Besides, you can already waypoint to contested keeps if you spam out the waypoint when the timer is going to reset and you can also instant rez the lord to reset the capture circle each time. Now imagine a zerg trying to defend a waypointed keep and all qualified players equip revive skills for the champion lord.

The only reason why offensive siege seems too overpowered is because the rewards are better for capturing than defending so more players are willing to try to capture than to defend.

I take towers by myself with siege perfectly fine.
I’m all for getting rid of dpsing gates.

~ Kovu