PvDoor is boring. Zerging all the time is boring.
Instead, encourage more open field battles and more small group roamers. This way, the zergless night cappers can help their team a whole lot.
How? Take away points from towers. Tower will no longer generates points for the total score. Instead, the generated points directly goes to camps and sentries. Yes, Sentries will now generate points.
Solo roamers can help their team directly by taking over sentries. Zergs can still kill sentries easily, but 10 solo roamers can take more sentries than 1 zerg.
What will happen to zergs now? Zerging can still exist and be viable. First, zergs can take keeps and Stonemist castle to help the server get more points. Second, towers are still an option. Towers will still give money, exp, karma for people who captured it. It also gives a safe haven to the solo roamers, scouts, and siege weapons. Towers can be a supply depot for zergs that want to resupply. Those reasons are enough for towers and zergs to still be useful in WvW.
However, solo/small group roamers or playing at night have little reason to exist. Not even the Bloodlust buff is a good enough reason.
I like your idea about sentries actually generating points, however PVD is a big part of WvW and is even used as a map tactic, and is the only point I do not agree with. I think your sentry points idea does enough to encourage roaming. As it is roamers can take camps and taking sentry positions would make the pot even sweeter for roamers. That only leaves the problem of solo roamers having to contend with guild roaming groups, but that is a different challenge altogether.
Additionally I think sentry points should give a team certain abilities, at least a limited way to see enemy positions. I mean isn’t that the whole point of having forward sentry positions in a war? In WvW sentries are merely NPCs that just stand there and contribute nothing to the combat mechanics of the map. They can’t even kill enemy pack dolyaks that happen to walk by!
Thought this thread was going to be about actually being able to damage the gates with weapons.
I like your idea about sentries actually generating points, however PVD is a big part of WvW and is even used as a map tactic, and is the only point I do not agree with. I think your sentry points idea does enough to encourage roaming. As it is roamers can take camps and taking sentry positions would make the pot even sweeter for roamers. That only leaves the problem of solo roamers having to contend with guild roaming groups, but that is a different challenge altogether.
Additionally I think sentry points should give a team certain abilities, at least a limited way to see enemy positions. I mean isn’t that the whole point of having forward sentry positions in a war? In WvW sentries are merely NPCs that just stand there and contribute nothing to the combat mechanics of the map. They can’t even kill enemy pack dolyaks that happen to walk by!
While I agree with most of your post, I wanted to focus on this part specifically:
A sentry needs to be able to either kill or at least lock down an enemy dolyak team. By simply having them do that you increase the reason to control these points. If you also counted guards for points while under bloodlust, that’d make roaming a small teams great at supporting the larger zergs from afar!
I like your idea about sentries actually generating points, however PVD is a big part of WvW and is even used as a map tactic, and is the only point I do not agree with. I think your sentry points idea does enough to encourage roaming. As it is roamers can take camps and taking sentry positions would make the pot even sweeter for roamers. That only leaves the problem of solo roamers having to contend with guild roaming groups, but that is a different challenge altogether.
As long as Sentries + Camps combined generates more points than Stonemist + Towers + Keeps, then I am okay with it. I feel PvDoor generates too much points.
PvDoor is boring. Zerging all the time is boring.
Instead, encourage more open field battles and more small group roamers. This way, the zergless night cappers can help their team a whole lot.
How? Take away points from towers. Tower will no longer generates points for the total score. Instead, the generated points directly goes to camps and sentries. Yes, Sentries will now generate points.
Solo roamers can help their team directly by taking over sentries. Zergs can still kill sentries easily, but 10 solo roamers can take more sentries than 1 zerg.
What will happen to zergs now? Zerging can still exist and be viable. First, zergs can take keeps and Stonemist castle to help the server get more points. Second, towers are still an option. Towers will still give money, exp, karma for people who captured it. It also gives a safe haven to the solo roamers, scouts, and siege weapons. Towers can be a supply depot for zergs that want to resupply. Those reasons are enough for towers and zergs to still be useful in WvW.
However, solo/small group roamers or playing at night have little reason to exist. Not even the Bloodlust buff is a good enough reason.
I agree more emphasis needs to be put on all aspects of WvW, and by doing so it would force servers to change from PvD zerging to a better meta.
I like the idea about sentries being worth points. I also think the very act of flipping bloodlust should be worth points. Bring back PPK as well to encourage more open field fighting. Also make the upgrade status of structures/camps determine the point value of the flip.
Open field kill: 1 point/2 points for a spike (large enough enemy wipe and you would earn as much as a T3 keep flip here, which might be a bit excessive, but I like open fields so…)
Sentry: 1 point to kill the sentry and 2 more to flip the point.
Packyak: 1-3 points per kill(not sure how much a packyak should be worth honestly, but 1-3 could tie it to the upgrade status of its originating camp)
5 points to flip bloodlust
T1 camp: 5 points, T2 camp: 10 points, T3 camp 15 points
T1 tower: 15 points, T2 tower: 20 points, T3 tower: 25 points
T1 Keep: 25 points, T2 Keep: 35 points, T3 Keep: 45 points
T1 SMC: 45 points, T2 SMC: 60 points, T3 SMC: 75 points
You cannot remove points from towers. Why even bother having a tower if not to generate points? If you take tower points, and roll them into sentries and packyaks then you are only rewarding solo roamers, which is not a good idea imo.
Defending: The stronger server has a built-in advantage when defending multiple structures as they can spread their forces out more than an outnumbered server. Perhaps make the defend score start when a wall/gate is breached. Defending needs to reward a score, but ticking at the upgraded value would put the bigger server at an even stronger advantage.
With the auto-upgrade feature coming soonish this would help the outnumbered server recoup points that they otherwise would not be able to garner as easily.
All this being said the larger server will still win the week, but perhaps if you make the weaker servers feel like everything wasn’t pointless for them then they would continue to come out in larger numbers than they ordinarily would.
(edited by Kaiser.9873)
If towers are worth no points why not remove towers? ::shakes head::
Also if you checked the wiki it says sentries are worth 1 war point and yaks are worth 3
If towers are worth no points why not remove towers? ::shakes head::
Also if you checked the wiki it says sentries are worth 1 war point and yaks are worth 3
Second, towers are still an option. Towers will still give money, exp, karma for people who captured it. It also gives a safe haven to the solo roamers, scouts, and siege weapons. Towers can be a supply depot for zergs that want to resupply. Those reasons are enough for towers and zergs to still be useful in WvW.
points per kill should be about 1/2 of the score and all rewards from npcs in wvw should be deleted. people who dont like it can go to EOTM to farm.
(edited by Steelo.4597)
If towers are worth no points why not remove towers? ::shakes head::
Also if you checked the wiki it says sentries are worth 1 war point and yaks are worth 3
Second, towers are still an option. Towers will still give money, exp, karma for people who captured it. It also gives a safe haven to the solo roamers, scouts, and siege weapons. Towers can be a supply depot for zergs that want to resupply. Those reasons are enough for towers and zergs to still be useful in WvW.
Still pointless seeing as wvw is to capture things for points. People take towers for you know the points. Why would you siege or defend something worth nothing?? ::shakes head::
Supply depot? haha that is what camps are for
(edited by briggah.7910)
I solo towers all the time. After proposed I’d be limited to sentries and camps (both take seconds to take). Where’s fun in that?
“Zerging is boring, people only go for towers!”
Anet removes tower points and stop zergs.
“WTF there’s no pugs for our guild groups to fight against, where are the zergs?!?”
Anet give more points for fighting.
“kitten everyone kill us because they want to fight, I didnt sign up for glorified PvP, I want to fight zergs, take towers and mix things up!”
We all know that’s exactly what would happen.
See I like a nice mix, a balance of keep/tower taking so you feel like you are accomplishing something, alongside a good fight interspersed here and there.
What I find happens with groups that do one or the other, all the time is they get burnt out. People get bored just PVDing, people get worn out just fighting nonstop.
So between bored or worn out-people will play in wvw less amounts of time until they stop.
You must have a balance of both, variety is what makes WvW fun.
If towers are worth no points why not remove towers? ::shakes head::
Also if you checked the wiki it says sentries are worth 1 war point and yaks are worth 3
Second, towers are still an option. Towers will still give money, exp, karma for people who captured it. It also gives a safe haven to the solo roamers, scouts, and siege weapons. Towers can be a supply depot for zergs that want to resupply. Those reasons are enough for towers and zergs to still be useful in WvW.
Still pointless seeing as wvw is to capture things for points. People take towers for you know the points. Why would you siege or defend something worth nothing?? ::shakes head::
Supply depot? haha that is what camps are for
Second, towers are still an option. Towers will still give money, exp, karma for people who captured it. It also gives a safe haven to the solo roamers, scouts, and siege weapons. Towers can be a supply depot for zergs that want to resupply. Those reasons are enough for towers and zergs to still be useful in WvW.
I solo towers all the time. After proposed I’d be limited to sentries and camps (both take seconds to take). Where’s fun in that?
The fun is in fighting other players on the field instead of waiting for them to come out of their tower.
“Zerging is boring, people only go for towers!”
Anet removes tower points and stop zergs.
“WTF there’s no pugs for our guild groups to fight against, where are the zergs?!?”
Anet give more points for fighting.
“kitten everyone kill us because they want to fight, I didnt sign up for glorified PvP, I want to fight zergs, take towers and mix things up!”
We all know that’s exactly what would happen.
I think you are trying to say something, but I don’t understand what you are talking about.
The fun is in fighting other players on the field instead of waiting for them to come out of their tower.
Everyone’s definition of fun is not the same. I have fun doing it all and there are times where I solo roam or small group roam for weeks if not months. Other times I zerg around and follow a commander or command myself. TBH I have more fun roaming then zerging but that’s just me. What I can do solo always makes me laugh because usually I flip camps (towers too if no one stops me) just to watch a zerg come and take it back.
Instead of waiting for them to come out of a tower why not attack something else to bring them out? If they don’t come out to fight whats to say they are going to show up and open field fight you? They probably won’t either way.
The fun is in fighting other players on the field instead of waiting for them to come out of their tower.
Everyone’s definition of fun is not the same. I have fun doing it all and there are times where I solo roam or small group roam for weeks if not months. Other times I zerg around and follow a commander or command myself. TBH I have more fun roaming then zerging but that’s just me. What I can do solo always makes me laugh because usually I flip camps (towers too if no one stops me) just to watch a zerg come and take it back.
Instead of waiting for them to come out of a tower why not attack something else to bring them out? If they don’t come out to fight whats to say they are going to show up and open field fight you? They probably won’t either way.
I don’t understand whats your point and how it relates to my suggestion.
You can still zerg if you want. You can still hide behind a tower if you want. You can even assault towers. My suggestion won’t break that.
They are just not important for points anymore.
(edited by runeblade.7514)
The fun is in fighting other players on the field instead of waiting for them to come out of their tower.
Everyone’s definition of fun is not the same. I have fun doing it all and there are times where I solo roam or small group roam for weeks if not months. Other times I zerg around and follow a commander or command myself. TBH I have more fun roaming then zerging but that’s just me. What I can do solo always makes me laugh because usually I flip camps (towers too if no one stops me) just to watch a zerg come and take it back.
Instead of waiting for them to come out of a tower why not attack something else to bring them out? If they don’t come out to fight whats to say they are going to show up and open field fight you? They probably won’t either way.
I don’t understand whats your point and how it relates to my suggestion.
You can still zerg if you want. You can still hide behind a tower if you want. You can even assault towers. My suggestion won’t break that.
They are just not important for points anymore.
I don’t see how you don’t get that if towers are worth ZERO points there is no point in taking them or even defending them. People don’t take towers for karma, money or rewards like you keep pointing out. We take them to keep them paper and so they do not get upgraded while also taking POINTS away from you.
You have a problem with k-trains it seems but you seem to do nothing to stop those k-trains.. They have no brakes unless you stop them by wiping them or upgrading and defending your stuff..
Does anyone kill the skritt or do events in the northern parts of BLs? Probably not because they are POINTLESS.
(edited by briggah.7910)
We’ve made suggestions for the past 2 years, I can’t see them changing things radically apart from that experimental week with PPK and no white swords.
kittens how is PvD and Karma training even fun, no way was this intended as a part of WvW, surely?
(edited by CrimsonNeonite.1048)
kittens how is PvD and Karma training even fun, no way was this intended as a part of WvW, surely?
I don’t think it really was suppose to be intended to be played this way but then again there are no rules. I don’t find it fun tbh but if there are no fights and no one stopping the k-trains what else is there really to do? I’ve been playing a while and even back when I started they were around but not as much as they are now a days. It was usually on reset day that it happened. Yet we had more population back then so in a way it was harder to do I guess.
The fun is in fighting other players on the field instead of waiting for them to come out of their tower.
Everyone’s definition of fun is not the same. I have fun doing it all and there are times where I solo roam or small group roam for weeks if not months. Other times I zerg around and follow a commander or command myself. TBH I have more fun roaming then zerging but that’s just me. What I can do solo always makes me laugh because usually I flip camps (towers too if no one stops me) just to watch a zerg come and take it back.
Instead of waiting for them to come out of a tower why not attack something else to bring them out? If they don’t come out to fight whats to say they are going to show up and open field fight you? They probably won’t either way.
I don’t understand whats your point and how it relates to my suggestion.
You can still zerg if you want. You can still hide behind a tower if you want. You can even assault towers. My suggestion won’t break that.
They are just not important for points anymore.
I don’t see how you don’t get that if towers are worth ZERO points there is no point in taking them or even defending them. People don’t take towers for karma, money or rewards like you keep pointing out. We take them to keep them paper and so they do not get upgraded while also taking POINTS away from you.
You have a problem with k-trains it seems but you seem to do nothing to stop those k-trains.. They have no brakes unless you stop them by wiping them or upgrading and defending your stuff..
Does anyone kill the skritt or do events in the northern parts of BLs? Probably not because they are POINTLESS.
Second, towers are still an option. Towers will still give money, exp, karma for people who captured it. It also gives a safe haven to the solo roamers, scouts, and siege weapons. Towers can be a supply depot for zergs that want to resupply. Those reasons are enough for towers and zergs to still be useful in WvW.
I like the idea sentrys award points and bloodlust
Misleading title. OP mentions nothing about discouraging PvDoor.
The fun is in fighting other players on the field instead of waiting for them to come out of their tower.
Everyone’s definition of fun is not the same. I have fun doing it all and there are times where I solo roam or small group roam for weeks if not months. Other times I zerg around and follow a commander or command myself. TBH I have more fun roaming then zerging but that’s just me. What I can do solo always makes me laugh because usually I flip camps (towers too if no one stops me) just to watch a zerg come and take it back.
Instead of waiting for them to come out of a tower why not attack something else to bring them out? If they don’t come out to fight whats to say they are going to show up and open field fight you? They probably won’t either way.
I don’t understand whats your point and how it relates to my suggestion.
You can still zerg if you want. You can still hide behind a tower if you want. You can even assault towers. My suggestion won’t break that.
They are just not important for points anymore.
I don’t see how you don’t get that if towers are worth ZERO points there is no point in taking them or even defending them. People don’t take towers for karma, money or rewards like you keep pointing out. We take them to keep them paper and so they do not get upgraded while also taking POINTS away from you.
You have a problem with k-trains it seems but you seem to do nothing to stop those k-trains.. They have no brakes unless you stop them by wiping them or upgrading and defending your stuff..
Does anyone kill the skritt or do events in the northern parts of BLs? Probably not because they are POINTLESS.
Second, towers are still an option. Towers will still give money, exp, karma for people who captured it. It also gives a safe haven to the solo roamers, scouts, and siege weapons. Towers can be a supply depot for zergs that want to resupply. Those reasons are enough for towers and zergs to still be useful in WvW.
STOP re-quoting the same thing when I’m telling you straight up that if towers are worth NO POINTS they will be USELESS. No one will defend them. Like I pointed out people k-train because you let them. They take stuff to take points away from you because you LET THEM. Nobody is going to siege something that is WORTH NOTHING. Roamers don’t need a safe haven because they are out there roaming. There are enough supply depots already and they are called CAMPS.
Look EoTM is worth absolutely ZERO points towards WvW score and guess what? Its a non-stop k-train.. Your idea will not stop people from doing what they prefer to do and is not a good idea to begin with. Simple as that.
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