Guild Wars 2

Hey,

what do u think of the following suggestion:
every respawning guard drains some supply from their related objective (except camps), if the objective has no mats, no guards will respawn.
so effectively u can dran supply by killing guards. i thought of amounts like 5 – 10 per guard.
maybe the guards outside the keep dont need (as much) sups (cause the drain at keeps could be too high).

roamers would be more important and consecutively scouts to conter them
a) in draining mats
b) if guards dont respawn soloroamer could use some new sneaky positions

thank you for constructive feedback

edit: what i wrote about “no swords since no guards” was just wrong

We already have free-to-play accounts wasting supply across every server. This is similar to doctors trying to cure cancer by injecting a patient with the AIDS.

Roamers already do good by taking camps and setting up solo-cataing of towers.

That would be way to op. Consider this, take a keep for example, it has multiple gates with multiple guards per gate and they all respawn in a couple minutes of dying. If a roamer goes to each gate, they can quickly kill the guards making the keep lose tons of supply very quickly making it extremely difficult for your side to defend when an attack comes. Since there are also multiple gates, there would need to be multiple scouts monitoring those gates, which is difficult for many servers to allocate that kind of manpower throughout the day. Roamers/Havok can simply go back and forth from killing guards which would keep the waypointed contested and useless, and run to snipe yaks essentially draining and starving you of supply.

Guards are there basically as a token resistance, because there cant always be players defending everything, so there has to be something. They need to be tweaked a little, in that it shouldnt be possible to permanently contest a waypoint just because you shoot an arrow at them and run off.

that makes sense. and i thought id found a further incentive for roamers :/ ^^

what if a guard would just cost 2 or 3 sups: gimmick or still too strong?

Ash.8127:

that makes sense. and i thought id found a further incentive for roamers :/ ^^

Ha, I hear ya. One of the problems with trying to come up with incentive for small groups/solo players is that you have to remember something like wvw is mostly designed for large groups of players. So its sometimes hard to find a balance that can be pleasing to those who like different roles. I appreciate the work of roamers/scouts/small ops teams and do want them to have more rewards and feel like they contribute as much as a zerg can, because they can be extremely useful especially when there are multiple groups.

I am more drawn to big fights, its what I find fun, but I do multitask, split off to take a camp, tower, some scouting etc. I have a good amount of experience with those roles, and if anyone needs more rewards its people who do this all the time.

I really wish people would stop coming up with more function for NPC’s than less, I would rather them remove them all together. A PvP game mode is about Player vs Player, not Player vs NPC. Killing an NPC should not even give you XP, loot or anything in a PvP game mode as, PvP should be rewarded, not Player vs NPC.

It would be better if you could actually steal from enemy supplies not have NPC’s do it for you. WvW needs less gimmicky junk and more emphasis on player contribution encouraging and rewarding players fighting each other rather than reward Player vs NPC. Rewarding for killing NPC’s is what you play PvE for , not PvP and is a huge part of what is wrong with the current state of WvW causing it to be hemorrhaging players. Gaining your enemy players supply when you kill them would be a much better suggestion.

lil devils x.6071:

I really wish people would stop coming up with more function for NPC’s than less, I would rather them remove them all together. A PvP game mode is about Player vs Player, not Player vs NPC. Killing an NPC should not even give you XP, loot or anything in a PvP game mode as, PvP should be rewarded, not Player vs NPC.

It would be better if you could actually steal from enemy supplies not have NPC’s do it for you. WvW needs less gimmicky junk and more emphasis on player contribution encouraging and rewarding players fighting each other rather than reward Player vs NPC. Rewarding for killing NPC’s is what you play PvE for , not PvP and is a huge part of what is wrong with the current state of WvW causing it to be hemorrhaging players. Gaining your enemy players supply when you kill them would be a much better suggestion.

Npc’s are a necessary part of a gamemode like wvw. How much or how little they do can always be up for debate, but they serve a purpose. They are there as a token resistance, there cannot always be players defending every objective it just wont happen. Irrelevant pve like imps, griffons, mosquitos and the rest that have nothing to do with anything dont belong in wvw, but guards are different.

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

I really wish people would stop coming up with more function for NPC’s than less, I would rather them remove them all together. A PvP game mode is about Player vs Player, not Player vs NPC. Killing an NPC should not even give you XP, loot or anything in a PvP game mode as, PvP should be rewarded, not Player vs NPC.

It would be better if you could actually steal from enemy supplies not have NPC’s do it for you. WvW needs less gimmicky junk and more emphasis on player contribution encouraging and rewarding players fighting each other rather than reward Player vs NPC. Rewarding for killing NPC’s is what you play PvE for , not PvP and is a huge part of what is wrong with the current state of WvW causing it to be hemorrhaging players. Gaining your enemy players supply when you kill them would be a much better suggestion.

Npc’s are a necessary part of a gamemode like wvw. How much or how little they do can always be up for debate, but they serve a purpose. They are there as a token resistance, there cannot always be players defending every objective it just wont happen. Irrelevant pve like imps, griffons, mosquitos and the rest that have nothing to do with anything dont belong in wvw, but guards are different.

I disagree that they are necessary.. at all. In some battlefield PvP games, the players are the castle lords. If you do not defend it, you do not keep it, like it is in reality. Just as we do not leave our military bases unguarded, you should not do so in a game. You should have to fight players to take an objective, and be rewarded only for fighting players in a PvP game mode, not reward PvD, kill NPC, get chest. That is what PvE is for.

The idea that NPC’s should be filling the player function in a PvP game mode is part of what is wrong with this game mode. The game is supposed to be played by players against players, not have the game play itself. Compensating for a lack of players by having the NPC’s do everything for you automatically doesn’t increase the population of the game or the player involvement and reward contribution.

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

I really wish people would stop coming up with more function for NPC’s than less, I would rather them remove them all together. A PvP game mode is about Player vs Player, not Player vs NPC. Killing an NPC should not even give you XP, loot or anything in a PvP game mode as, PvP should be rewarded, not Player vs NPC.

It would be better if you could actually steal from enemy supplies not have NPC’s do it for you. WvW needs less gimmicky junk and more emphasis on player contribution encouraging and rewarding players fighting each other rather than reward Player vs NPC. Rewarding for killing NPC’s is what you play PvE for , not PvP and is a huge part of what is wrong with the current state of WvW causing it to be hemorrhaging players. Gaining your enemy players supply when you kill them would be a much better suggestion.

Npc’s are a necessary part of a gamemode like wvw. How much or how little they do can always be up for debate, but they serve a purpose. They are there as a token resistance, there cannot always be players defending every objective it just wont happen. Irrelevant pve like imps, griffons, mosquitos and the rest that have nothing to do with anything dont belong in wvw, but guards are different.

I disagree that they are necessary.. at all. In some battlefield PvP games, the players are the castle lords. If you do not defend it, you do not keep it, like it is in reality. Just as we do not leave our military bases unguarded, you should not do so in a game. You should have to fight players to take an objective, and be rewarded only for fighting players in a PvP game mode, not reward PvD, kill NPC, get chest. That is what PvE is for.

The idea that NPC’s should be filling the player function in a PvP game mode is part of what is wrong with this game mode. The game is supposed to be played by players against players, not have the game play itself.

If you dont defend it your going to lose it anyways, guards are not meant to prevent captures, they are meant to provide a small level of resistance to delay capture and provide notice to defenders in the form of white swords, to provide time for people to respond. A borderland has 13 objectives, are you going to station a group of people at each one? To just stand around?

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

I really wish people would stop coming up with more function for NPC’s than less, I would rather them remove them all together. A PvP game mode is about Player vs Player, not Player vs NPC. Killing an NPC should not even give you XP, loot or anything in a PvP game mode as, PvP should be rewarded, not Player vs NPC.

It would be better if you could actually steal from enemy supplies not have NPC’s do it for you. WvW needs less gimmicky junk and more emphasis on player contribution encouraging and rewarding players fighting each other rather than reward Player vs NPC. Rewarding for killing NPC’s is what you play PvE for , not PvP and is a huge part of what is wrong with the current state of WvW causing it to be hemorrhaging players. Gaining your enemy players supply when you kill them would be a much better suggestion.

Npc’s are a necessary part of a gamemode like wvw. How much or how little they do can always be up for debate, but they serve a purpose. They are there as a token resistance, there cannot always be players defending every objective it just wont happen. Irrelevant pve like imps, griffons, mosquitos and the rest that have nothing to do with anything dont belong in wvw, but guards are different.

I disagree that they are necessary.. at all. In some battlefield PvP games, the players are the castle lords. If you do not defend it, you do not keep it, like it is in reality. Just as we do not leave our military bases unguarded, you should not do so in a game. You should have to fight players to take an objective, and be rewarded only for fighting players in a PvP game mode, not reward PvD, kill NPC, get chest. That is what PvE is for.

The idea that NPC’s should be filling the player function in a PvP game mode is part of what is wrong with this game mode. The game is supposed to be played by players against players, not have the game play itself.

If you dont defend it your going to lose it anyways, guards are not meant to prevent captures, they are meant to provide a small level of resistance to delay capture and provide notice to defenders in the form on white swords, to provide time for people to respond. A borderland has 13 objectives, are you going to station a group of people at each one? To just stand around?

If the game was functioning properly, you would have players that were scouts doing all of those things. And YES, you actually do have players doing all of those things.. the key is to make those things more interesting to those players doing them. We have players that is all they actually do in the game and they enjoy it, well we did prior to HoT , but since then most of the scouts left the game since Anet took away their primary enjoyment of the game by making there be no reason to defend objectives. You do not necessarily need players in all of the objectives, they can scout/ guard multiple objectives if they are close enough together they can make " rounds" just as guards do in reality.

I thought most scouts ( prior to Hot) were able to run supply, upgrade their objectives, and build the siege within them as well as scout them, so they were not exactly standing around. Usually the scouts had to fight off the roamers and havoc on their own and only called for backup when it was too many, not just stand around. This was basically another form of " roaming" in the game, just a defensive one rather than offensive. They were the caretakers of objectives, their role is not to stand around but to actually make sure they are battle ready and defend them. Defending has always been easier than going offense, so a couple of people can usually do so easily against much greater numbers if they are properly prepared to do so.

And heres another issue, why would you want to remove loot from npc’s. WvW loot is already pitiful, but its especially so for roamers/small ops groups who provide an important role in flipping camps and structures. In most cases npcs drops is all they get, and even if they do get anything from killing players, those heavy loot bags usually give some worthless t5 mat. Last thing wvw players need is less rewards.

X T D.6458:

And heres another issue, why would you want to remove loot from npc’s. WvW loot is already pitiful, but its especially so for roamers/small ops groups who provide an important role in flipping camps and structures. In most cases npcs drops is all they get, and even if they do get anything from killing players, those heavy loot bags usually give some worthless t5 mat. Last thing wvw players need is less rewards.

I want to remove loot from NPC’s at the same time greatly increasing loot from killing players without the use of siege over objectives. My suggestion is to use loot strategically to encourage players to do more, not reward lazy game play. We need to greatly increase PPK and LOOT while fighting over an objective ( either attacking or defending) to bring the fights into the objectives and make them relevant again.

Players should be able to have a greatly increased chance of receiving ascended items and legendary crafting materials and precursors while fighting other players over objectives without the use of siege in place of getting a chest from PvD, Kill NPC, avoid fighting players. Rewarding players for PvP is what the primary focus of rewards should be in a PvP game mode. The rewarding for dying quickly so you can PvD is a huge part of what is broken in WvW.

At the same time however, they would actually give a benefit to the defending team by fixing the stupid walls to actually give the defense a reason to use range on the attacking players instead of siege. It should be more difficult to hit the players on the walls as well as more difficult to pull them off of them since currently it is a bit silly the way most of the walls work in the game compared to the actual advantages in reality of being on the wall with ranged attacks. If it is designed to give players more incentive to fight using their characters and not siege it would help resolve many of the issues putting players off from fighting over the actual objectives on the battlefield. The fighting over objectives on the battlefield should actually be more valuable to the players than just keeping the objective itself or taking the objective without anyone there to defend it.

Of course loot, and quality should be greatly increased, but not everyone wants to run in a zerg that can consistently encounter a large number of enemies. One of the great things about wvw is that it allows players to play a variety of roles. Those roles likes scouting, havoking, roaming should not be penalized simply because they dont come across an enemy while flipping a camp or tower. This just drives more people away from these very important roles and promotes more zerging everywhere. And its rather insulting to call roaming, havok, scouting lazy gameplay.

Ha, this thread is such a clickbait for an Anet dev to come and post something like “oh so you want more PvE to affect WvW? Cool!”.

No but seriously, I think the idea is silly. Supply draining should always be even the most modest of player interactions. Yes, as much as we hate 20 defenders building 10 arrowcarts to defend against 5 people on 1 cata and that stupid kid that doesnt know what 0% means, its still an interaction between players.

X T D.6458:

Of course loot, and quality should be greatly increased, but not everyone wants to run in a zerg that can consistently encounter a large number of enemies. One of the great things about wvw is that it allows players to play a variety of roles. Those roles likes scouting, havoking, roaming should not be penalized simply because they dont come across an enemy while flipping a camp or tower. This just drives more people away from these very important roles and promotes more zerging everywhere. And its rather insulting to call roaming, havok, scouting lazy gameplay.

I agree that not everyone should be forced to run with a zerg, that is why I think Players should have to defend the objectives themselves if they wish to keep them, not the NPC’s. Anet placing more emphasis on NPC’s by making them take longer to kill hurt havoc and roamers, not Zergs. Having to actually have real player scouts there instead of NPC’s helps roamers, not hurts them.

Not running into another player while playing is part of the population issue that needs to be repaired, you do not solve the population issue by having NPC’s replace players, you make it so there are only enough servers open and maps in play to accommodate the games population. They are already being punished for the population issue by not having players to play with and against in a PvP game mode, adding NPCs does not solve that issue at all since they can kill an NPC for loot in PvE and have no need to come to WvW to do that. What they need to do instead is adjust maps/ servers to accommodate the game’s population to ensure that no matter what map or server you log in to, you always have players to play with and against when you come into WvW. You should expect to have nonstop challenging, fun PvP action the entire time you are in WvW, not expect to PvD, kill NPC, get loot instead.

You are suggesting compensating for a broken population balance issue by turning a PvP game mode into a PvE game mode. Scouting towers, defending camps and yaks, upgrading and sieging up keeps is all a part of roaming/ havoc as well, not zerging. Just as zerging has both offensive and defensive roles, so does roaming. I do not consider " PvD" roaming, I do consider fighting other players in defense or offense of camps, towers, people along your path ect as roaming though. PvD, Kill NPC, Get chest is PvE game play, not PvP roaming. Players should be rewarded instead with Ascended and legendary items for killing other players while roaming, not for killing NPC’s and avoiding fights.

No one said Roaming and havoc were lazy game play, however PvD, kill NPC, get chest IS most definitely lazy game play.

awesome idea! lets add 1 gold/ closing wp to that guy that has nothing better to do then run around keep and closing the wp whole afternoon!? maybe 10g/ contesting?

When exactly did I say a PvP zone should be turned into a pve map? I said there are certain pve elements in wvw that are necessary like guards. I never said guards are meant to replace players, thats ridiculous, they serve a different purpose as I have already stated multiple times. Do you just think people should break down a wall or gate and walk into an empty structure, get into the circle with no resistance of any kind.

game mode has always been about taking over the environment. for me it started to die when people started to only care about the fights. guilds left servers to look for them fights and usually didn’t last where they went when the fights died down.

once people understand that this game mode is not just about fights maybe the complaints about siege and too much pve will go away. i wouldn’t have put in as many hours as i did if it was some sort of death mode with skill spamming in large numbers. that is fun for about 1 hour to me before i sway away from the zerging and do my own thing..

players that do not want to fight are not going to fight if you remove the npc’s that a lot of people seem to want to farm. if npc’s didn’t drop any loot i wouldn’t be in this game mode because when there are not any players around to fight i fight npcs.

i’m all for better rewards but seriously there are so many different ways to play in wvw and some seem to only care about what they do which is looking for fights. you take away npc loot you lose all those players that would rather take objectives when the big zergs are clashing it out.

X T D.6458:

When exactly did I say a PvP zone should be turned into a pve map? I said there are certain pve elements in wvw that are necessary like guards. I never said guards are meant to replace players, thats ridiculous, they serve a different purpose as I have already stated multiple times. Do you just think people should break down a wall or gate and walk into an empty structure, get into the circle with no resistance of any kind.

Adding NPC guards to compensate for the lack of Players guarding IS what PvE is. That is what PvE is all about. The existence of guards at all ARE replacing players whether or not you realize that. In other games where there are no NPC guards, the players ARE the guards. In this game, they are replacing those players with guards. If they are just using guards as " an alarm system" there is still no reason to reward PvE in a PvP game mode by killing those guards. Instead they should just greatly reward Killing the players that show up to defend instead, giving an incentive for both offense to attack players and defense to defend. By only rewarding killing players while fighting over objectives you encourage players to actually attack objectives and defend them. They will be chasing the ascended and legendary loot bags..

briggah.7910:

game mode has always been about taking over the environment. for me it started to die when people started to only care about the fights. guilds left servers to look for them fights and usually didn’t last where they went when the fights died down.

once people understand that this game mode is not just about fights maybe the complaints about siege and too much pve will go away. i wouldn’t have put in as many hours as i did if it was some sort of death mode with skill spamming in large numbers. that is fun for about 1 hour to me before i sway away from the zerging and do my own thing..

players that do not want to fight are not going to fight if you remove the npc’s that a lot of people seem to want to farm. if npc’s didn’t drop any loot i wouldn’t be in this game mode because when there are not any players around to fight i fight npcs.

i’m all for better rewards but seriously there are so many different ways to play in wvw and some seem to only care about what they do which is looking for fights. you take away npc loot you lose all those players that would rather take objectives when the big zergs are clashing it out.

The issue is the fights should be over objectives, that is what any battlefield PvP game mode should be about. There is no need to play a PvP game mode to PvD, Kill NPC, get chest, that is what PvE is for. That is the primary reason WvW has been bleeding players since the beginning is many players only bought this game to large scale PvP. Anet failing to treat it like a PvP game mode is why they left. If you are fighting NPC’s not controlled by players instead of players you are not really playing PvP.

There should not be a divide at all between Players that want to win and players who want the challenge of the fight. They should both be working together to win if the game mode was set up properly. The server with the more skilled fighters should ALSO be the server that wins. Failing to do that just makes the PvP players leave to games that actually do this, and most PvE players do not want to fight other players or have them be able to attack them at all so they are not going to take their place and the game mode will just get smaller and smaller until the end..

The players who do not want to fight other players at all already have 99.999% of the game dedicated for them, it is called PvE. This is the tiny section of the game that is supposed to be about PvP.

Scouts maintaining, guarding and defending objectives are far from being zerglings. LOL

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

game mode has always been about taking over the environment. for me it started to die when people started to only care about the fights. guilds left servers to look for them fights and usually didn’t last where they went when the fights died down.

once people understand that this game mode is not just about fights maybe the complaints about siege and too much pve will go away. i wouldn’t have put in as many hours as i did if it was some sort of death mode with skill spamming in large numbers. that is fun for about 1 hour to me before i sway away from the zerging and do my own thing..

players that do not want to fight are not going to fight if you remove the npc’s that a lot of people seem to want to farm. if npc’s didn’t drop any loot i wouldn’t be in this game mode because when there are not any players around to fight i fight npcs.

i’m all for better rewards but seriously there are so many different ways to play in wvw and some seem to only care about what they do which is looking for fights. you take away npc loot you lose all those players that would rather take objectives when the big zergs are clashing it out.

The issue is the fights should be over objectives, that is what any battlefield PvP game mode should be about. There is no need to play a PvP game mode to PvD, Kill NPC, get chest, that is what PvE is for. That is the primary reason WvW has been bleeding players since the beginning is many players only bought this game to large scale PvP. Anet failing to treat it like a PvP game mode is why they left. If you are fighting NPC’s not controlled by players instead of players you are not really playing PvP.

There should not be a divide at all between Players that want to win and players who want the challenge of the fight. They should both be working together to win if the game mode was set up properly. The server with the more skilled fighters should ALSO be the server that wins.

The players who do not want to fight other players at all already have 99.999% of the game dedicated for them, it is called PvE. This is the tiny section of the game that is supposed to be about PvP.

Scouts maintaining guarding and defending objectives are far from being zerglings. LOL

yes, fights should be over objectives like they used to be in the old days.. nowadays its blob this and blob that. k-train or be k-trained. till the PLAYERS split up it will always be this way

pve is boring maybe? maybe some people like the thrill of trying to ninja a tower to help out the server and know that they could be killed at any minute if a zerg shows up. you know some people actually do still try and help the server out that they are on. not everyone that wvw’s are only there for the fights.

not sure what you are talking about in your last statement about scouting and defending. no where did i mention or call anyone a zergling. i basically said servers have all different type of players on them and need them all but some of you only care about the fighting part of this game mode..

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

game mode has always been about taking over the environment. for me it started to die when people started to only care about the fights. guilds left servers to look for them fights and usually didn’t last where they went when the fights died down.

once people understand that this game mode is not just about fights maybe the complaints about siege and too much pve will go away. i wouldn’t have put in as many hours as i did if it was some sort of death mode with skill spamming in large numbers. that is fun for about 1 hour to me before i sway away from the zerging and do my own thing..

players that do not want to fight are not going to fight if you remove the npc’s that a lot of people seem to want to farm. if npc’s didn’t drop any loot i wouldn’t be in this game mode because when there are not any players around to fight i fight npcs.

i’m all for better rewards but seriously there are so many different ways to play in wvw and some seem to only care about what they do which is looking for fights. you take away npc loot you lose all those players that would rather take objectives when the big zergs are clashing it out.

The issue is the fights should be over objectives, that is what any battlefield PvP game mode should be about. There is no need to play a PvP game mode to PvD, Kill NPC, get chest, that is what PvE is for. That is the primary reason WvW has been bleeding players since the beginning is many players only bought this game to large scale PvP. Anet failing to treat it like a PvP game mode is why they left. If you are fighting NPC’s not controlled by players instead of players you are not really playing PvP.

There should not be a divide at all between Players that want to win and players who want the challenge of the fight. They should both be working together to win if the game mode was set up properly. The server with the more skilled fighters should ALSO be the server that wins.

The players who do not want to fight other players at all already have 99.999% of the game dedicated for them, it is called PvE. This is the tiny section of the game that is supposed to be about PvP.

Scouts maintaining guarding and defending objectives are far from being zerglings. LOL

yes, fights should be over objectives like they used to be in the old days.. nowadays its blob this and blob that. k-train or be k-trained. till the PLAYERS split up it will always be this way

pve is boring maybe? maybe some people like the thrill of trying to ninja a tower to help out the server and know that they could be killed at any minute if a zerg shows up. you know some people actually do still try and help the server out that they are on.

not sure what you are talking about in your last statement about scouting and defending. no where did i mention or call anyone a zergling. i basically said servers have all different type of players on them and need them all but some of you only care about the fighting part of this game mode..

I disagree that it was the players fault this happened AND that " it will always be this way" this happened due to the malfunction in the game design, not due to " this is just the way it is". The increase in AC damage moved the fights from the keeps to the open field. It is actually pretty easy to bring the fights back to the objectives, you need to give them a reason to. Make the loot in game objective based giving best loot to players fighting over objectives making the defending team slightly higher than the offense to encourage defending over K training. If they do not wish to reduce AC damage on players, they need to instead remove the loot and PPK from siege damage on players thus making it so most will choose to fight with their character instead of with siege. That way, yes the AC can give you an advantage in the fight, but you will have to sacrifice your loot and PPK to do so. Players making hard choices are all of what makes a battlefield PvP fun and challenging.

The comment about " zerglings" is replacing NPCs with players actually helps roamers and havoc more than it helps the zerg, since those few that guard the objectives are actually just highly effective roamers helping their server. You do not need to PvD to help your server.

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

game mode has always been about taking over the environment. for me it started to die when people started to only care about the fights. guilds left servers to look for them fights and usually didn’t last where they went when the fights died down.

once people understand that this game mode is not just about fights maybe the complaints about siege and too much pve will go away. i wouldn’t have put in as many hours as i did if it was some sort of death mode with skill spamming in large numbers. that is fun for about 1 hour to me before i sway away from the zerging and do my own thing..

players that do not want to fight are not going to fight if you remove the npc’s that a lot of people seem to want to farm. if npc’s didn’t drop any loot i wouldn’t be in this game mode because when there are not any players around to fight i fight npcs.

i’m all for better rewards but seriously there are so many different ways to play in wvw and some seem to only care about what they do which is looking for fights. you take away npc loot you lose all those players that would rather take objectives when the big zergs are clashing it out.

The issue is the fights should be over objectives, that is what any battlefield PvP game mode should be about. There is no need to play a PvP game mode to PvD, Kill NPC, get chest, that is what PvE is for. That is the primary reason WvW has been bleeding players since the beginning is many players only bought this game to large scale PvP. Anet failing to treat it like a PvP game mode is why they left. If you are fighting NPC’s not controlled by players instead of players you are not really playing PvP.

There should not be a divide at all between Players that want to win and players who want the challenge of the fight. They should both be working together to win if the game mode was set up properly. The server with the more skilled fighters should ALSO be the server that wins.

The players who do not want to fight other players at all already have 99.999% of the game dedicated for them, it is called PvE. This is the tiny section of the game that is supposed to be about PvP.

Scouts maintaining guarding and defending objectives are far from being zerglings. LOL

yes, fights should be over objectives like they used to be in the old days.. nowadays its blob this and blob that. k-train or be k-trained. till the PLAYERS split up it will always be this way

pve is boring maybe? maybe some people like the thrill of trying to ninja a tower to help out the server and know that they could be killed at any minute if a zerg shows up. you know some people actually do still try and help the server out that they are on.

not sure what you are talking about in your last statement about scouting and defending. no where did i mention or call anyone a zergling. i basically said servers have all different type of players on them and need them all but some of you only care about the fighting part of this game mode..

I disagree that it was the players fault this happened AND that " it will always be this way" this happened due to the malfunction in the game design, not due to " this is just the way it is". The increase in AC damage moved the fights from the keeps to the open field. It is actually pretty easy to bring the fights back to the objectives, you need to give them a reason to. Make the loot in game objective based giving best loot to players fighting over objectives making the defending team slightly higher than the offense to encourage defending over K training. If they do not wish to reduce AC damage on players, they need to instead remove the loot and PPK from siege damage on players thus making it so most will choose to fight with their character instead of with siege. That way, yes the AC can give you an advantage in the fight, but you will have to sacrifice your loot and PPK to do so. Players making hard choices are all of what makes a battlefield PvP fun and challenging.

The comment about " zerglings" is replacing NPCs with players actually helps roamers and havoc more than it helps the zerg, since those few that guard the objectives are actually just highly effective roamers helping their server. You do not need to PvD to help your server.

not the first time someone disagreed with me.. i’d be more surprised if someone actually did agree with me. you can blame the game mechanics but the players play style has. i get tired of diving into some zergs with few people while everyone else runs the other way.

not even going to go into a long rant about siege. people that complain about siege in towers to me just want to take easy objectives. there are ways to counter siege in objectives and draw out the fights. as for open field siege, that should be focused first. if you can’t focus the siege first you are doing it wrong. yes siege is annoying but tbh i don’t even remember the last time i died to siege.

used to try several things to fight over objectives but now it seems like if there is any siege and players in a tower, we move on to the next empty objective. again the players play style has changed.

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

When exactly did I say a PvP zone should be turned into a pve map? I said there are certain pve elements in wvw that are necessary like guards. I never said guards are meant to replace players, thats ridiculous, they serve a different purpose as I have already stated multiple times. Do you just think people should break down a wall or gate and walk into an empty structure, get into the circle with no resistance of any kind.

Adding NPC guards to compensate for the lack of Players guarding IS what PvE is. That is what PvE is all about. The existence of guards at all ARE replacing players whether or not you realize that. In other games where there are no NPC guards, the players ARE the guards. In this game, they are replacing those players with guards. If they are just using guards as " an alarm system" there is still no reason to reward PvE in a PvP game mode by killing those guards. Instead they should just greatly reward Killing the players that show up to defend instead, giving an incentive for both offense to attack players and defense to defend. By only rewarding killing players while fighting over objectives you encourage players to actually attack objectives and defend them. They will be chasing the ascended and legendary loot bags..

What adding??? Who said anything about adding, they already exist, and they exist for a reason. Nobody is arguing that guards are there to replace or compensate for players, I dont know where you got that. There is a difference between something like guards, and random irrelevant pve like wildlife that can put you in combat and rally enemies, and pve oriented events like oasis. I dont understand your comparisons whatsoever, they are just nonsensical and far reaching, guards are replacing players? Because there are guards, it means players cant guard anything? What nonsense is this?

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

When exactly did I say a PvP zone should be turned into a pve map? I said there are certain pve elements in wvw that are necessary like guards. I never said guards are meant to replace players, thats ridiculous, they serve a different purpose as I have already stated multiple times. Do you just think people should break down a wall or gate and walk into an empty structure, get into the circle with no resistance of any kind.

Adding NPC guards to compensate for the lack of Players guarding IS what PvE is. That is what PvE is all about. The existence of guards at all ARE replacing players whether or not you realize that. In other games where there are no NPC guards, the players ARE the guards. In this game, they are replacing those players with guards. If they are just using guards as " an alarm system" there is still no reason to reward PvE in a PvP game mode by killing those guards. Instead they should just greatly reward Killing the players that show up to defend instead, giving an incentive for both offense to attack players and defense to defend. By only rewarding killing players while fighting over objectives you encourage players to actually attack objectives and defend them. They will be chasing the ascended and legendary loot bags..

What adding??? Who said anything about adding, they already exist, and they exist for a reason. Nobody is arguing that guards are there to replace or compensate for players, I dont know where you got that. There is a difference between something like guards, and random irrelevant pve like wildlife that can put you in combat and rally enemies, and pve oriented events like oasis. I dont understand your comparisons whatsoever, they are just nonsensical and far reaching, guards are replacing players? Because there are guards, it means players cant guard anything? What nonsense is this?

They were “added” to the game in the first place otherwise they would not exist. The very first time they added guards, they took a role that was played by players already in other games. I guess after playing games where the players do everything in PvP, this one is just overwhelmingly PvE based by comparison. That isn’t " far reaching" that is just how PvP has existed long before the " WoW" generation.

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

When exactly did I say a PvP zone should be turned into a pve map? I said there are certain pve elements in wvw that are necessary like guards. I never said guards are meant to replace players, thats ridiculous, they serve a different purpose as I have already stated multiple times. Do you just think people should break down a wall or gate and walk into an empty structure, get into the circle with no resistance of any kind.

Adding NPC guards to compensate for the lack of Players guarding IS what PvE is. That is what PvE is all about. The existence of guards at all ARE replacing players whether or not you realize that. In other games where there are no NPC guards, the players ARE the guards. In this game, they are replacing those players with guards. If they are just using guards as " an alarm system" there is still no reason to reward PvE in a PvP game mode by killing those guards. Instead they should just greatly reward Killing the players that show up to defend instead, giving an incentive for both offense to attack players and defense to defend. By only rewarding killing players while fighting over objectives you encourage players to actually attack objectives and defend them. They will be chasing the ascended and legendary loot bags..

What adding??? Who said anything about adding, they already exist, and they exist for a reason. Nobody is arguing that guards are there to replace or compensate for players, I dont know where you got that. There is a difference between something like guards, and random irrelevant pve like wildlife that can put you in combat and rally enemies, and pve oriented events like oasis. I dont understand your comparisons whatsoever, they are just nonsensical and far reaching, guards are replacing players? Because there are guards, it means players cant guard anything? What nonsense is this?

They were “added” to the game in the first place otherwise they would not exist. The very first time they added guards, they took a role that was played by players already in other games. I guess after playing games where the players do everything in PvP, this one is just overwhelmingly PvE based by comparison. That isn’t " far reaching" that is just how PvP has existed long before the " WoW" generation.

Yea but every game is different, you cant expect it all to be the same. Heck gw1 pvp was amazing, the gvgs went on forever and even those had npcs and pve elements. It wasnt a big deal, it just added an objective to the fight.

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

game mode has always been about taking over the environment. for me it started to die when people started to only care about the fights. guilds left servers to look for them fights and usually didn’t last where they went when the fights died down.

once people understand that this game mode is not just about fights maybe the complaints about siege and too much pve will go away. i wouldn’t have put in as many hours as i did if it was some sort of death mode with skill spamming in large numbers. that is fun for about 1 hour to me before i sway away from the zerging and do my own thing..

players that do not want to fight are not going to fight if you remove the npc’s that a lot of people seem to want to farm. if npc’s didn’t drop any loot i wouldn’t be in this game mode because when there are not any players around to fight i fight npcs.

i’m all for better rewards but seriously there are so many different ways to play in wvw and some seem to only care about what they do which is looking for fights. you take away npc loot you lose all those players that would rather take objectives when the big zergs are clashing it out.

The issue is the fights should be over objectives, that is what any battlefield PvP game mode should be about. There is no need to play a PvP game mode to PvD, Kill NPC, get chest, that is what PvE is for. That is the primary reason WvW has been bleeding players since the beginning is many players only bought this game to large scale PvP. Anet failing to treat it like a PvP game mode is why they left. If you are fighting NPC’s not controlled by players instead of players you are not really playing PvP.

There should not be a divide at all between Players that want to win and players who want the challenge of the fight. They should both be working together to win if the game mode was set up properly. The server with the more skilled fighters should ALSO be the server that wins.

The players who do not want to fight other players at all already have 99.999% of the game dedicated for them, it is called PvE. This is the tiny section of the game that is supposed to be about PvP.

Scouts maintaining guarding and defending objectives are far from being zerglings. LOL

yes, fights should be over objectives like they used to be in the old days.. nowadays its blob this and blob that. k-train or be k-trained. till the PLAYERS split up it will always be this way

pve is boring maybe? maybe some people like the thrill of trying to ninja a tower to help out the server and know that they could be killed at any minute if a zerg shows up. you know some people actually do still try and help the server out that they are on.

not sure what you are talking about in your last statement about scouting and defending. no where did i mention or call anyone a zergling. i basically said servers have all different type of players on them and need them all but some of you only care about the fighting part of this game mode..

I disagree that it was the players fault this happened AND that " it will always be this way" this happened due to the malfunction in the game design, not due to " this is just the way it is". The increase in AC damage moved the fights from the keeps to the open field. It is actually pretty easy to bring the fights back to the objectives, you need to give them a reason to. Make the loot in game objective based giving best loot to players fighting over objectives making the defending team slightly higher than the offense to encourage defending over K training. If they do not wish to reduce AC damage on players, they need to instead remove the loot and PPK from siege damage on players thus making it so most will choose to fight with their character instead of with siege. That way, yes the AC can give you an advantage in the fight, but you will have to sacrifice your loot and PPK to do so. Players making hard choices are all of what makes a battlefield PvP fun and challenging.

The comment about " zerglings" is replacing NPCs with players actually helps roamers and havoc more than it helps the zerg, since those few that guard the objectives are actually just highly effective roamers helping their server. You do not need to PvD to help your server.

not the first time someone disagreed with me.. i’d be more surprised if someone actually did agree with me. you can blame the game mechanics but the players play style has. i get tired of diving into some zergs with few people while everyone else runs the other way.

not even going to go into a long rant about siege. people that complain about siege in towers to me just want to take easy objectives. there are ways to counter siege in objectives and draw out the fights. as for open field siege, that should be focused first. if you can’t focus the siege first you are doing it wrong. yes siege is annoying but tbh i don’t even remember the last time i died to siege.

used to try several things to fight over objectives but now it seems like if there is any siege and players in a tower, we move on to the next empty objective. again the players play style has changed.

The siege hurts the roamers and havoc, not the zergs since anything the one can do the many can do but much much worse. When you have an entire zerg on siege vs the poor schmucks that happen to roll up into that, it is a sad site to see. I think many do not think about the effect on the game when the entire zergs are on siege, and that is the end result when siege usage is encouraged or rewarded. It is only due to players realizing this and choosing to have fun over that mess that it doesn’t happen more frequently than it currently does. You can treb the crap out of the tower/ keep and take out all their siege prior to moving in if you really want to. It isn’t like it takes any skill, just most get very bored doing so is the only reason it doesn’t happen like it can/ has been done. Long drawn out siege battles with zerg vs zerg all on siege have been done and were so boring players do not even bother anymore since they play games to have fun and no one considers that fun.

Games are meant to be fun, and if they are not fun for the majority of players, those players just take their business elsewhere. ( which is the current state of the game). Luckily Anet is finally seeing this, so hopefully that means they are trying to correct that and save the game mode from it’s current path of self destruction. The majority of players will not continue to play WvW for years to PvD. If you want to keep players and make the game mode grow you are going to have to offer nonstop challenging, fun PvP action in a PvP game mode.

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

When exactly did I say a PvP zone should be turned into a pve map? I said there are certain pve elements in wvw that are necessary like guards. I never said guards are meant to replace players, thats ridiculous, they serve a different purpose as I have already stated multiple times. Do you just think people should break down a wall or gate and walk into an empty structure, get into the circle with no resistance of any kind.

Adding NPC guards to compensate for the lack of Players guarding IS what PvE is. That is what PvE is all about. The existence of guards at all ARE replacing players whether or not you realize that. In other games where there are no NPC guards, the players ARE the guards. In this game, they are replacing those players with guards. If they are just using guards as " an alarm system" there is still no reason to reward PvE in a PvP game mode by killing those guards. Instead they should just greatly reward Killing the players that show up to defend instead, giving an incentive for both offense to attack players and defense to defend. By only rewarding killing players while fighting over objectives you encourage players to actually attack objectives and defend them. They will be chasing the ascended and legendary loot bags..

What adding??? Who said anything about adding, they already exist, and they exist for a reason. Nobody is arguing that guards are there to replace or compensate for players, I dont know where you got that. There is a difference between something like guards, and random irrelevant pve like wildlife that can put you in combat and rally enemies, and pve oriented events like oasis. I dont understand your comparisons whatsoever, they are just nonsensical and far reaching, guards are replacing players? Because there are guards, it means players cant guard anything? What nonsense is this?

They were “added” to the game in the first place otherwise they would not exist. The very first time they added guards, they took a role that was played by players already in other games. I guess after playing games where the players do everything in PvP, this one is just overwhelmingly PvE based by comparison. That isn’t " far reaching" that is just how PvP has existed long before the " WoW" generation.

Yea but every game is different, you cant expect it all to be the same. Heck gw1 pvp was amazing, the gvgs went on forever and even those had npcs and pve elements. It wasnt a big deal, it just added an objective to the fight.

GW1 classes and balance were much better than Gw2, in addition PvP was the primary focus of the fights, not the NPC’s is why they really did not take away from the fight as much. They did not accomplish that with the WvW design of GW2 since they have yet to treat it as a PvP game mode.

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

game mode has always been about taking over the environment. for me it started to die when people started to only care about the fights. guilds left servers to look for them fights and usually didn’t last where they went when the fights died down.

once people understand that this game mode is not just about fights maybe the complaints about siege and too much pve will go away. i wouldn’t have put in as many hours as i did if it was some sort of death mode with skill spamming in large numbers. that is fun for about 1 hour to me before i sway away from the zerging and do my own thing..

players that do not want to fight are not going to fight if you remove the npc’s that a lot of people seem to want to farm. if npc’s didn’t drop any loot i wouldn’t be in this game mode because when there are not any players around to fight i fight npcs.

i’m all for better rewards but seriously there are so many different ways to play in wvw and some seem to only care about what they do which is looking for fights. you take away npc loot you lose all those players that would rather take objectives when the big zergs are clashing it out.

The issue is the fights should be over objectives, that is what any battlefield PvP game mode should be about. There is no need to play a PvP game mode to PvD, Kill NPC, get chest, that is what PvE is for. That is the primary reason WvW has been bleeding players since the beginning is many players only bought this game to large scale PvP. Anet failing to treat it like a PvP game mode is why they left. If you are fighting NPC’s not controlled by players instead of players you are not really playing PvP.

There should not be a divide at all between Players that want to win and players who want the challenge of the fight. They should both be working together to win if the game mode was set up properly. The server with the more skilled fighters should ALSO be the server that wins.

The players who do not want to fight other players at all already have 99.999% of the game dedicated for them, it is called PvE. This is the tiny section of the game that is supposed to be about PvP.

Scouts maintaining guarding and defending objectives are far from being zerglings. LOL

yes, fights should be over objectives like they used to be in the old days.. nowadays its blob this and blob that. k-train or be k-trained. till the PLAYERS split up it will always be this way

pve is boring maybe? maybe some people like the thrill of trying to ninja a tower to help out the server and know that they could be killed at any minute if a zerg shows up. you know some people actually do still try and help the server out that they are on.

not sure what you are talking about in your last statement about scouting and defending. no where did i mention or call anyone a zergling. i basically said servers have all different type of players on them and need them all but some of you only care about the fighting part of this game mode..

I disagree that it was the players fault this happened AND that " it will always be this way" this happened due to the malfunction in the game design, not due to " this is just the way it is". The increase in AC damage moved the fights from the keeps to the open field. It is actually pretty easy to bring the fights back to the objectives, you need to give them a reason to. Make the loot in game objective based giving best loot to players fighting over objectives making the defending team slightly higher than the offense to encourage defending over K training. If they do not wish to reduce AC damage on players, they need to instead remove the loot and PPK from siege damage on players thus making it so most will choose to fight with their character instead of with siege. That way, yes the AC can give you an advantage in the fight, but you will have to sacrifice your loot and PPK to do so. Players making hard choices are all of what makes a battlefield PvP fun and challenging.

The comment about " zerglings" is replacing NPCs with players actually helps roamers and havoc more than it helps the zerg, since those few that guard the objectives are actually just highly effective roamers helping their server. You do not need to PvD to help your server.

not the first time someone disagreed with me.. i’d be more surprised if someone actually did agree with me. you can blame the game mechanics but the players play style has. i get tired of diving into some zergs with few people while everyone else runs the other way.

not even going to go into a long rant about siege. people that complain about siege in towers to me just want to take easy objectives. there are ways to counter siege in objectives and draw out the fights. as for open field siege, that should be focused first. if you can’t focus the siege first you are doing it wrong. yes siege is annoying but tbh i don’t even remember the last time i died to siege.

used to try several things to fight over objectives but now it seems like if there is any siege and players in a tower, we move on to the next empty objective. again the players play style has changed.

The siege hurts the roamers and havoc, not the zergs since anything the one can do the many can do but much much worse. When you have an entire zerg on siege vs the poor schmucks that happen to roll up into that, it is a sad site to see. I think many do not think about the effect on the game when the entire zergs are on siege, and that is the end result when siege usage is encouraged or rewarded. It is only due to players realizing this and choosing to have fun over that mess that it doesn’t happen more frequently than it currently does. You can treb the crap out of the tower/ keep and take out all their siege prior to moving in if you really want to. It isn’t like it takes any skill, just most get very bored doing so is the only reason it doesn’t happen like it can/ has been done. Long drawn out siege battles with zerg vs zerg all on siege have been done and were so boring players do not even bother anymore since they play games to have fun and no one considers that fun.

Games are meant to be fun, and if they are not fun for the majority of players, those players just take their business elsewhere. ( which is the current state of the game). Luckily Anet is finally seeing this, so hopefully that means they are trying to correct that and save the game mode from it’s current path of self destruction. The majority of players will not continue to play WvW for years to PvD. If you want to keep players and make the game mode grow you are going to have to offer nonstop challenging, fun PvP action in a PvP game mode.

lol siege hurt roamers. what’s a roamer doing sitting in siege fire?? you must play on some server that doesn’t exists because I’ve never seen an entire zerg all sitting on siege. smart roamers go for smart kills and objectives. those are some pretty bad roamers if they came across an objective and tried to take it from an entire zerg..

yes game is meant to be fun. ever think that some people have fun pvd’ing? ever think that some people have fun shooting siege at people? eotm seems to be popping with players and to me that is only pvd’ing so don’t go and throw the majority of players prefer this over that.

you are all over the place in this discussion. if players do not change from zerging and k-training then pvd’ing will not change one bit. i prefer fighting over everything but the fights are not like they used to be because the players have changed.

that’s all i can say on this topic.. if players do not change don’t expect a patch/buff/nerf or a fix to change the game mode

lil devils x.6071:

I want to remove loot from NPC’s at the same time greatly increasing loot from killing players without the use of siege over objectives. My suggestion is to use loot strategically to encourage players to do more, not reward lazy game play.

Problem with this idea is basically that large groups are favored to winning fights and small groups are only able to compensate by taking objectives. If killing rewards are increased, it would further encourage forming very big groups to overpower smaller groups. One might even argue that big zergs are safety in numbers and thus “lazy” way of playing.

Lil Devils, I understand and respect your views listed in this thread, but I have to point out that your views are taken from a tier 1 viewpoint. While T1 may have constant coverage and the numbers to make guards etc obsolete, lower tiers, especially T6 – T8, need the added coverage as much of the time, Definitely in T8, the majority of the takeover is done during underpopulated hours.

I am for the OPs idea. The costs of supply would have to be tweaked so that one person could not rapidly depleat a tower or keep, but make enough of a dent so that the lack of supply available to repair a wall or defend a structure would be noticed and missed.

I also like the idea that Lil Devil posted in here, as my guild mates and I have had the same thought. If an opposing player was carrying supply, a % of that supply would be available as loot to be added to the killers supply (up to their normal max of course)
BUT, I believe this should be earned from from a WvW traited ability. Which I am actually going to start a thread on.

Daemonne.5018:

Lil Devils, I understand and respect your views listed in this thread, but I have to point out that your views are taken from a tier 1 viewpoint. While T1 may have constant coverage and the numbers to make guards etc obsolete, lower tiers, especially T6 – T8, need the added coverage as much of the time, Definitely in T8, the majority of the takeover is done during underpopulated hours.

I am for the OPs idea. The costs of supply would have to be tweaked so that one person could not rapidly depleat a tower or keep, but make enough of a dent so that the lack of supply available to repair a wall or defend a structure would be noticed and missed.

I also like the idea that Lil Devil posted in here, as my guild mates and I have had the same thought. If an opposing player was carrying supply, a % of that supply would be available as loot to be added to the killers supply (up to their normal max of course)
BUT, I believe this should be earned from from a WvW traited ability. Which I am actually going to start a thread on.

You should also consider when they solve the population balance/ too many server issue, Tier 6- 8 will cease to exist, in addition the proposed changes to PPT/PPK will change who is in what tier. When they only have populated servers open, Tier 6-8 will no longer be here unless the overall game population greatly increases and it is needed again in the future. In that case tier 6-8 would be here, but not in their current state, they would be as populated as the rest of the servers at that point. In a balanced game mode all tiers will play like T1, the only difference between the tiers at that point would be the organization cooperation and skill of the players there. The game would no longer be about “coverage wars”, as every server open would have coverage and population, instead it would be about what that population chooses to do instead.

I would much rather a wvw mastery ability apply to looting supply from players or objectives than some of their more PvE focused ideas. I think that is a great suggestion that would be much more appreciated than things like Dragon Banners and airships.

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

game mode has always been about taking over the environment. for me it started to die when people started to only care about the fights. guilds left servers to look for them fights and usually didn’t last where they went when the fights died down.

once people understand that this game mode is not just about fights maybe the complaints about siege and too much pve will go away. i wouldn’t have put in as many hours as i did if it was some sort of death mode with skill spamming in large numbers. that is fun for about 1 hour to me before i sway away from the zerging and do my own thing..

players that do not want to fight are not going to fight if you remove the npc’s that a lot of people seem to want to farm. if npc’s didn’t drop any loot i wouldn’t be in this game mode because when there are not any players around to fight i fight npcs.

i’m all for better rewards but seriously there are so many different ways to play in wvw and some seem to only care about what they do which is looking for fights. you take away npc loot you lose all those players that would rather take objectives when the big zergs are clashing it out.

The issue is the fights should be over objectives, that is what any battlefield PvP game mode should be about. There is no need to play a PvP game mode to PvD, Kill NPC, get chest, that is what PvE is for. That is the primary reason WvW has been bleeding players since the beginning is many players only bought this game to large scale PvP. Anet failing to treat it like a PvP game mode is why they left. If you are fighting NPC’s not controlled by players instead of players you are not really playing PvP.

There should not be a divide at all between Players that want to win and players who want the challenge of the fight. They should both be working together to win if the game mode was set up properly. The server with the more skilled fighters should ALSO be the server that wins.

The players who do not want to fight other players at all already have 99.999% of the game dedicated for them, it is called PvE. This is the tiny section of the game that is supposed to be about PvP.

Scouts maintaining guarding and defending objectives are far from being zerglings. LOL

yes, fights should be over objectives like they used to be in the old days.. nowadays its blob this and blob that. k-train or be k-trained. till the PLAYERS split up it will always be this way

pve is boring maybe? maybe some people like the thrill of trying to ninja a tower to help out the server and know that they could be killed at any minute if a zerg shows up. you know some people actually do still try and help the server out that they are on.

not sure what you are talking about in your last statement about scouting and defending. no where did i mention or call anyone a zergling. i basically said servers have all different type of players on them and need them all but some of you only care about the fighting part of this game mode..

I disagree that it was the players fault this happened AND that " it will always be this way" this happened due to the malfunction in the game design, not due to " this is just the way it is". The increase in AC damage moved the fights from the keeps to the open field. It is actually pretty easy to bring the fights back to the objectives, you need to give them a reason to. Make the loot in game objective based giving best loot to players fighting over objectives making the defending team slightly higher than the offense to encourage defending over K training. If they do not wish to reduce AC damage on players, they need to instead remove the loot and PPK from siege damage on players thus making it so most will choose to fight with their character instead of with siege. That way, yes the AC can give you an advantage in the fight, but you will have to sacrifice your loot and PPK to do so. Players making hard choices are all of what makes a battlefield PvP fun and challenging.

The comment about " zerglings" is replacing NPCs with players actually helps roamers and havoc more than it helps the zerg, since those few that guard the objectives are actually just highly effective roamers helping their server. You do not need to PvD to help your server.

not the first time someone disagreed with me.. i’d be more surprised if someone actually did agree with me. you can blame the game mechanics but the players play style has. i get tired of diving into some zergs with few people while everyone else runs the other way.

not even going to go into a long rant about siege. people that complain about siege in towers to me just want to take easy objectives. there are ways to counter siege in objectives and draw out the fights. as for open field siege, that should be focused first. if you can’t focus the siege first you are doing it wrong. yes siege is annoying but tbh i don’t even remember the last time i died to siege.

used to try several things to fight over objectives but now it seems like if there is any siege and players in a tower, we move on to the next empty objective. again the players play style has changed.

The siege hurts the roamers and havoc, not the zergs since anything the one can do the many can do but much much worse. When you have an entire zerg on siege vs the poor schmucks that happen to roll up into that, it is a sad site to see. I think many do not think about the effect on the game when the entire zergs are on siege, and that is the end result when siege usage is encouraged or rewarded. It is only due to players realizing this and choosing to have fun over that mess that it doesn’t happen more frequently than it currently does. You can treb the crap out of the tower/ keep and take out all their siege prior to moving in if you really want to. It isn’t like it takes any skill, just most get very bored doing so is the only reason it doesn’t happen like it can/ has been done. Long drawn out siege battles with zerg vs zerg all on siege have been done and were so boring players do not even bother anymore since they play games to have fun and no one considers that fun.

Games are meant to be fun, and if they are not fun for the majority of players, those players just take their business elsewhere. ( which is the current state of the game). Luckily Anet is finally seeing this, so hopefully that means they are trying to correct that and save the game mode from it’s current path of self destruction. The majority of players will not continue to play WvW for years to PvD. If you want to keep players and make the game mode grow you are going to have to offer nonstop challenging, fun PvP action in a PvP game mode.

lol siege hurt roamers. what’s a roamer doing sitting in siege fire?? you must play on some server that doesn’t exists because I’ve never seen an entire zerg all sitting on siege. smart roamers go for smart kills and objectives. those are some pretty bad roamers if they came across an objective and tried to take it from an entire zerg..

yes game is meant to be fun. ever think that some people have fun pvd’ing? ever think that some people have fun shooting siege at people? eotm seems to be popping with players and to me that is only pvd’ing so don’t go and throw the majority of players prefer this over that.

you are all over the place in this discussion. if players do not change from zerging and k-training then pvd’ing will not change one bit. i prefer fighting over everything but the fights are not like they used to be because the players have changed.

that’s all i can say on this topic.. if players do not change don’t expect a patch/buff/nerf or a fix to change the game mode

Roamers cannot take any objectives that are defended with siege. In a flourishing, balanced game, every objective will be defended, every server open will be populated, and there will be no vacant dead maps open. From my understanding, that should be the case when they solve the population issues very soon.

Undefended PvD was never meant to be part of the game mode, because they intended this game mode to be populated. WvW was the only play in GW2 where you have large scale PvP. They already have PVE, and Small scale PvP game modes, this is their large scale PvP game mode. Of course you can play different ways in a large scale PvP game mode, however, it should be designed around large scale PvP since this is the only place in the game for that and the other styles of play already have their own modes.

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

game mode has always been about taking over the environment. for me it started to die when people started to only care about the fights. guilds left servers to look for them fights and usually didn’t last where they went when the fights died down.

once people understand that this game mode is not just about fights maybe the complaints about siege and too much pve will go away. i wouldn’t have put in as many hours as i did if it was some sort of death mode with skill spamming in large numbers. that is fun for about 1 hour to me before i sway away from the zerging and do my own thing..

players that do not want to fight are not going to fight if you remove the npc’s that a lot of people seem to want to farm. if npc’s didn’t drop any loot i wouldn’t be in this game mode because when there are not any players around to fight i fight npcs.

i’m all for better rewards but seriously there are so many different ways to play in wvw and some seem to only care about what they do which is looking for fights. you take away npc loot you lose all those players that would rather take objectives when the big zergs are clashing it out.

The issue is the fights should be over objectives, that is what any battlefield PvP game mode should be about. There is no need to play a PvP game mode to PvD, Kill NPC, get chest, that is what PvE is for. That is the primary reason WvW has been bleeding players since the beginning is many players only bought this game to large scale PvP. Anet failing to treat it like a PvP game mode is why they left. If you are fighting NPC’s not controlled by players instead of players you are not really playing PvP.

There should not be a divide at all between Players that want to win and players who want the challenge of the fight. They should both be working together to win if the game mode was set up properly. The server with the more skilled fighters should ALSO be the server that wins.

The players who do not want to fight other players at all already have 99.999% of the game dedicated for them, it is called PvE. This is the tiny section of the game that is supposed to be about PvP.

Scouts maintaining guarding and defending objectives are far from being zerglings. LOL

yes, fights should be over objectives like they used to be in the old days.. nowadays its blob this and blob that. k-train or be k-trained. till the PLAYERS split up it will always be this way

pve is boring maybe? maybe some people like the thrill of trying to ninja a tower to help out the server and know that they could be killed at any minute if a zerg shows up. you know some people actually do still try and help the server out that they are on.

not sure what you are talking about in your last statement about scouting and defending. no where did i mention or call anyone a zergling. i basically said servers have all different type of players on them and need them all but some of you only care about the fighting part of this game mode..

I disagree that it was the players fault this happened AND that " it will always be this way" this happened due to the malfunction in the game design, not due to " this is just the way it is". The increase in AC damage moved the fights from the keeps to the open field. It is actually pretty easy to bring the fights back to the objectives, you need to give them a reason to. Make the loot in game objective based giving best loot to players fighting over objectives making the defending team slightly higher than the offense to encourage defending over K training. If they do not wish to reduce AC damage on players, they need to instead remove the loot and PPK from siege damage on players thus making it so most will choose to fight with their character instead of with siege. That way, yes the AC can give you an advantage in the fight, but you will have to sacrifice your loot and PPK to do so. Players making hard choices are all of what makes a battlefield PvP fun and challenging.

The comment about " zerglings" is replacing NPCs with players actually helps roamers and havoc more than it helps the zerg, since those few that guard the objectives are actually just highly effective roamers helping their server. You do not need to PvD to help your server.

not the first time someone disagreed with me.. i’d be more surprised if someone actually did agree with me. you can blame the game mechanics but the players play style has. i get tired of diving into some zergs with few people while everyone else runs the other way.

not even going to go into a long rant about siege. people that complain about siege in towers to me just want to take easy objectives. there are ways to counter siege in objectives and draw out the fights. as for open field siege, that should be focused first. if you can’t focus the siege first you are doing it wrong. yes siege is annoying but tbh i don’t even remember the last time i died to siege.

used to try several things to fight over objectives but now it seems like if there is any siege and players in a tower, we move on to the next empty objective. again the players play style has changed.

The siege hurts the roamers and havoc, not the zergs since anything the one can do the many can do but much much worse. When you have an entire zerg on siege vs the poor schmucks that happen to roll up into that, it is a sad site to see. I think many do not think about the effect on the game when the entire zergs are on siege, and that is the end result when siege usage is encouraged or rewarded. It is only due to players realizing this and choosing to have fun over that mess that it doesn’t happen more frequently than it currently does. You can treb the crap out of the tower/ keep and take out all their siege prior to moving in if you really want to. It isn’t like it takes any skill, just most get very bored doing so is the only reason it doesn’t happen like it can/ has been done. Long drawn out siege battles with zerg vs zerg all on siege have been done and were so boring players do not even bother anymore since they play games to have fun and no one considers that fun.

Games are meant to be fun, and if they are not fun for the majority of players, those players just take their business elsewhere. ( which is the current state of the game). Luckily Anet is finally seeing this, so hopefully that means they are trying to correct that and save the game mode from it’s current path of self destruction. The majority of players will not continue to play WvW for years to PvD. If you want to keep players and make the game mode grow you are going to have to offer nonstop challenging, fun PvP action in a PvP game mode.

lol siege hurt roamers. what’s a roamer doing sitting in siege fire?? you must play on some server that doesn’t exists because I’ve never seen an entire zerg all sitting on siege. smart roamers go for smart kills and objectives. those are some pretty bad roamers if they came across an objective and tried to take it from an entire zerg..

yes game is meant to be fun. ever think that some people have fun pvd’ing? ever think that some people have fun shooting siege at people? eotm seems to be popping with players and to me that is only pvd’ing so don’t go and throw the majority of players prefer this over that.

you are all over the place in this discussion. if players do not change from zerging and k-training then pvd’ing will not change one bit. i prefer fighting over everything but the fights are not like they used to be because the players have changed.

that’s all i can say on this topic.. if players do not change don’t expect a patch/buff/nerf or a fix to change the game mode

Roamers cannot take any objectives that are defended with siege. In a flourishing, balanced game, every objective will be defended, every server open will be populated, and there will be no vacant dead maps open. From my understanding, that should be the case when they solve the population issues very soon.

Undefended PvD was never meant to be part of the game mode, because they intended this game mode to be populated. WvW was the only play in GW2 where you have large scale PvP. They already have PVE, and Small scale PvP game modes, this is their large scale PvP game mode. Of course you can play different ways in a large scale PvP game mode, however, it should be designed around large scale PvP since this is the only place in the game for that and the other styles of play already have their own modes.

All I’m saying is players have to change. It is not like it used to be where there were lots of smaller groups out taking or trying to take multiple objectives. It hasn’t been this way for a long time. Everyone is stuck in zerg mode.

IMO wvw was never supposed to be just massive large scaled fights in one spot.. The lag in massive fights tells me that lol I think is was suppose to be more smaller scaled fights happening all over the maps. Anyway we’ll find out soon and I’m looking forward to it. Going to be up to the players though to change the game mode.

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

game mode has always been about taking over the environment. for me it started to die when people started to only care about the fights. guilds left servers to look for them fights and usually didn’t last where they went when the fights died down.

once people understand that this game mode is not just about fights maybe the complaints about siege and too much pve will go away. i wouldn’t have put in as many hours as i did if it was some sort of death mode with skill spamming in large numbers. that is fun for about 1 hour to me before i sway away from the zerging and do my own thing..

players that do not want to fight are not going to fight if you remove the npc’s that a lot of people seem to want to farm. if npc’s didn’t drop any loot i wouldn’t be in this game mode because when there are not any players around to fight i fight npcs.

i’m all for better rewards but seriously there are so many different ways to play in wvw and some seem to only care about what they do which is looking for fights. you take away npc loot you lose all those players that would rather take objectives when the big zergs are clashing it out.

The issue is the fights should be over objectives, that is what any battlefield PvP game mode should be about. There is no need to play a PvP game mode to PvD, Kill NPC, get chest, that is what PvE is for. That is the primary reason WvW has been bleeding players since the beginning is many players only bought this game to large scale PvP. Anet failing to treat it like a PvP game mode is why they left. If you are fighting NPC’s not controlled by players instead of players you are not really playing PvP.

There should not be a divide at all between Players that want to win and players who want the challenge of the fight. They should both be working together to win if the game mode was set up properly. The server with the more skilled fighters should ALSO be the server that wins.

The players who do not want to fight other players at all already have 99.999% of the game dedicated for them, it is called PvE. This is the tiny section of the game that is supposed to be about PvP.

Scouts maintaining guarding and defending objectives are far from being zerglings. LOL

yes, fights should be over objectives like they used to be in the old days.. nowadays its blob this and blob that. k-train or be k-trained. till the PLAYERS split up it will always be this way

pve is boring maybe? maybe some people like the thrill of trying to ninja a tower to help out the server and know that they could be killed at any minute if a zerg shows up. you know some people actually do still try and help the server out that they are on.

not sure what you are talking about in your last statement about scouting and defending. no where did i mention or call anyone a zergling. i basically said servers have all different type of players on them and need them all but some of you only care about the fighting part of this game mode..

I disagree that it was the players fault this happened AND that " it will always be this way" this happened due to the malfunction in the game design, not due to " this is just the way it is". The increase in AC damage moved the fights from the keeps to the open field. It is actually pretty easy to bring the fights back to the objectives, you need to give them a reason to. Make the loot in game objective based giving best loot to players fighting over objectives making the defending team slightly higher than the offense to encourage defending over K training. If they do not wish to reduce AC damage on players, they need to instead remove the loot and PPK from siege damage on players thus making it so most will choose to fight with their character instead of with siege. That way, yes the AC can give you an advantage in the fight, but you will have to sacrifice your loot and PPK to do so. Players making hard choices are all of what makes a battlefield PvP fun and challenging.

The comment about " zerglings" is replacing NPCs with players actually helps roamers and havoc more than it helps the zerg, since those few that guard the objectives are actually just highly effective roamers helping their server. You do not need to PvD to help your server.

not the first time someone disagreed with me.. i’d be more surprised if someone actually did agree with me. you can blame the game mechanics but the players play style has. i get tired of diving into some zergs with few people while everyone else runs the other way.

not even going to go into a long rant about siege. people that complain about siege in towers to me just want to take easy objectives. there are ways to counter siege in objectives and draw out the fights. as for open field siege, that should be focused first. if you can’t focus the siege first you are doing it wrong. yes siege is annoying but tbh i don’t even remember the last time i died to siege.

used to try several things to fight over objectives but now it seems like if there is any siege and players in a tower, we move on to the next empty objective. again the players play style has changed.

The siege hurts the roamers and havoc, not the zergs since anything the one can do the many can do but much much worse. When you have an entire zerg on siege vs the poor schmucks that happen to roll up into that, it is a sad site to see. I think many do not think about the effect on the game when the entire zergs are on siege, and that is the end result when siege usage is encouraged or rewarded. It is only due to players realizing this and choosing to have fun over that mess that it doesn’t happen more frequently than it currently does. You can treb the crap out of the tower/ keep and take out all their siege prior to moving in if you really want to. It isn’t like it takes any skill, just most get very bored doing so is the only reason it doesn’t happen like it can/ has been done. Long drawn out siege battles with zerg vs zerg all on siege have been done and were so boring players do not even bother anymore since they play games to have fun and no one considers that fun.

Games are meant to be fun, and if they are not fun for the majority of players, those players just take their business elsewhere. ( which is the current state of the game). Luckily Anet is finally seeing this, so hopefully that means they are trying to correct that and save the game mode from it’s current path of self destruction. The majority of players will not continue to play WvW for years to PvD. If you want to keep players and make the game mode grow you are going to have to offer nonstop challenging, fun PvP action in a PvP game mode.

lol siege hurt roamers. what’s a roamer doing sitting in siege fire?? you must play on some server that doesn’t exists because I’ve never seen an entire zerg all sitting on siege. smart roamers go for smart kills and objectives. those are some pretty bad roamers if they came across an objective and tried to take it from an entire zerg..

yes game is meant to be fun. ever think that some people have fun pvd’ing? ever think that some people have fun shooting siege at people? eotm seems to be popping with players and to me that is only pvd’ing so don’t go and throw the majority of players prefer this over that.

you are all over the place in this discussion. if players do not change from zerging and k-training then pvd’ing will not change one bit. i prefer fighting over everything but the fights are not like they used to be because the players have changed.

that’s all i can say on this topic.. if players do not change don’t expect a patch/buff/nerf or a fix to change the game mode

Roamers cannot take any objectives that are defended with siege. In a flourishing, balanced game, every objective will be defended, every server open will be populated, and there will be no vacant dead maps open. From my understanding, that should be the case when they solve the population issues very soon.

Undefended PvD was never meant to be part of the game mode, because they intended this game mode to be populated. WvW was the only play in GW2 where you have large scale PvP. They already have PVE, and Small scale PvP game modes, this is their large scale PvP game mode. Of course you can play different ways in a large scale PvP game mode, however, it should be designed around large scale PvP since this is the only place in the game for that and the other styles of play already have their own modes.

All I’m saying is players have to change. It is not like it used to be where there were lots of smaller groups out taking or trying to take multiple objectives. It hasn’t been this way for a long time. Everyone is stuck in zerg mode.

IMO wvw was never supposed to be just massive large scaled fights in one spot.. The lag in massive fights tells me that lol I think is was suppose to be more smaller scaled fights happening all over the maps. Anyway we we’ll find out soon and I’m looking forward to it. Going to be up to the players though to change the game mode.

Players change all the time due to changes made to the game. Players moved fights outside of keeps due to changes made to arrow carts. If you want to move the fights back to the keeps you give them a good reason to and it will happen. Anet gave them a good reason not to is why they stopped fighting there in the first place.

Lag has nothing to do with whether or not it was designed for large scale PvP.. if that were the case people would think EVE online was made for small scale PvP and it is far from that. Lag is something they hope to reduce, not something that prevents you from having large scale PvP at all. The reason WvW exists at all is due to the surveys they gave players from GW1 asking for large scale PvP, otherwise they would still just have arenas as they did with GW1. MANY players asked for large scale PvP and they told us they were giving it to us so of course we should expect them to keep their word.

I have never been on a server where there was only zerg fighting going on, there have always been havoc and roamers as well. The way it works is the zerg fights the enemy zerg over objectives and while they do that smaller teams battle it out over other objectives at the same time. For example, say the attacking zerg is fighting the defensive zerg at bravos, that is a great time for havoc to hit QL and fight the defenders there since the enemy zerg will be unable to be in both places at the same time and will likely not be able to respond to QL. If it is just a havoc group, it will be difficult for them to take a tower if you even have 2 defenders on siege though since with disablers and counter siege they will never be able to get a wall/ gate down since defending is the easiest thing to do in the game already.

TBH siege is too OP and didn’t need to be buffed because defending was already insanely easy since you have the advantage of having the wall/ gate barriers and not only do the attackers have to survive to make it in, they are not going to be able to do so at all without some sort of siege and you can take that siege out easily if you are prepared to do so and know how to properly utilize your siege and disablers. Defending was already the easiest thing you can possibly do in the game and adding ridiculousness such as airships, siege shield generators, and increasing damage from Arrow carts make it feel like you are playing the game in idiot mode. Even a couple of players can defend against a zerg with all that nonsense and it is just silly if you have player running to EotM or elsewhere for supply then it just gets really absurd since it can take forever to do any damage at all since you are not even really wearing them down.

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

game mode has always been about taking over the environment. for me it started to die when people started to only care about the fights. guilds left servers to look for them fights and usually didn’t last where they went when the fights died down.

once people understand that this game mode is not just about fights maybe the complaints about siege and too much pve will go away. i wouldn’t have put in as many hours as i did if it was some sort of death mode with skill spamming in large numbers. that is fun for about 1 hour to me before i sway away from the zerging and do my own thing..

players that do not want to fight are not going to fight if you remove the npc’s that a lot of people seem to want to farm. if npc’s didn’t drop any loot i wouldn’t be in this game mode because when there are not any players around to fight i fight npcs.

i’m all for better rewards but seriously there are so many different ways to play in wvw and some seem to only care about what they do which is looking for fights. you take away npc loot you lose all those players that would rather take objectives when the big zergs are clashing it out.

The issue is the fights should be over objectives, that is what any battlefield PvP game mode should be about. There is no need to play a PvP game mode to PvD, Kill NPC, get chest, that is what PvE is for. That is the primary reason WvW has been bleeding players since the beginning is many players only bought this game to large scale PvP. Anet failing to treat it like a PvP game mode is why they left. If you are fighting NPC’s not controlled by players instead of players you are not really playing PvP.

There should not be a divide at all between Players that want to win and players who want the challenge of the fight. They should both be working together to win if the game mode was set up properly. The server with the more skilled fighters should ALSO be the server that wins.

The players who do not want to fight other players at all already have 99.999% of the game dedicated for them, it is called PvE. This is the tiny section of the game that is supposed to be about PvP.

Scouts maintaining guarding and defending objectives are far from being zerglings. LOL

yes, fights should be over objectives like they used to be in the old days.. nowadays its blob this and blob that. k-train or be k-trained. till the PLAYERS split up it will always be this way

pve is boring maybe? maybe some people like the thrill of trying to ninja a tower to help out the server and know that they could be killed at any minute if a zerg shows up. you know some people actually do still try and help the server out that they are on.

not sure what you are talking about in your last statement about scouting and defending. no where did i mention or call anyone a zergling. i basically said servers have all different type of players on them and need them all but some of you only care about the fighting part of this game mode..

I disagree that it was the players fault this happened AND that " it will always be this way" this happened due to the malfunction in the game design, not due to " this is just the way it is". The increase in AC damage moved the fights from the keeps to the open field. It is actually pretty easy to bring the fights back to the objectives, you need to give them a reason to. Make the loot in game objective based giving best loot to players fighting over objectives making the defending team slightly higher than the offense to encourage defending over K training. If they do not wish to reduce AC damage on players, they need to instead remove the loot and PPK from siege damage on players thus making it so most will choose to fight with their character instead of with siege. That way, yes the AC can give you an advantage in the fight, but you will have to sacrifice your loot and PPK to do so. Players making hard choices are all of what makes a battlefield PvP fun and challenging.

The comment about " zerglings" is replacing NPCs with players actually helps roamers and havoc more than it helps the zerg, since those few that guard the objectives are actually just highly effective roamers helping their server. You do not need to PvD to help your server.

not the first time someone disagreed with me.. i’d be more surprised if someone actually did agree with me. you can blame the game mechanics but the players play style has. i get tired of diving into some zergs with few people while everyone else runs the other way.

not even going to go into a long rant about siege. people that complain about siege in towers to me just want to take easy objectives. there are ways to counter siege in objectives and draw out the fights. as for open field siege, that should be focused first. if you can’t focus the siege first you are doing it wrong. yes siege is annoying but tbh i don’t even remember the last time i died to siege.

used to try several things to fight over objectives but now it seems like if there is any siege and players in a tower, we move on to the next empty objective. again the players play style has changed.

The siege hurts the roamers and havoc, not the zergs since anything the one can do the many can do but much much worse. When you have an entire zerg on siege vs the poor schmucks that happen to roll up into that, it is a sad site to see. I think many do not think about the effect on the game when the entire zergs are on siege, and that is the end result when siege usage is encouraged or rewarded. It is only due to players realizing this and choosing to have fun over that mess that it doesn’t happen more frequently than it currently does. You can treb the crap out of the tower/ keep and take out all their siege prior to moving in if you really want to. It isn’t like it takes any skill, just most get very bored doing so is the only reason it doesn’t happen like it can/ has been done. Long drawn out siege battles with zerg vs zerg all on siege have been done and were so boring players do not even bother anymore since they play games to have fun and no one considers that fun.

Games are meant to be fun, and if they are not fun for the majority of players, those players just take their business elsewhere. ( which is the current state of the game). Luckily Anet is finally seeing this, so hopefully that means they are trying to correct that and save the game mode from it’s current path of self destruction. The majority of players will not continue to play WvW for years to PvD. If you want to keep players and make the game mode grow you are going to have to offer nonstop challenging, fun PvP action in a PvP game mode.

lol siege hurt roamers. what’s a roamer doing sitting in siege fire?? you must play on some server that doesn’t exists because I’ve never seen an entire zerg all sitting on siege. smart roamers go for smart kills and objectives. those are some pretty bad roamers if they came across an objective and tried to take it from an entire zerg..

yes game is meant to be fun. ever think that some people have fun pvd’ing? ever think that some people have fun shooting siege at people? eotm seems to be popping with players and to me that is only pvd’ing so don’t go and throw the majority of players prefer this over that.

you are all over the place in this discussion. if players do not change from zerging and k-training then pvd’ing will not change one bit. i prefer fighting over everything but the fights are not like they used to be because the players have changed.

that’s all i can say on this topic.. if players do not change don’t expect a patch/buff/nerf or a fix to change the game mode

Roamers cannot take any objectives that are defended with siege. In a flourishing, balanced game, every objective will be defended, every server open will be populated, and there will be no vacant dead maps open. From my understanding, that should be the case when they solve the population issues very soon.

Undefended PvD was never meant to be part of the game mode, because they intended this game mode to be populated. WvW was the only play in GW2 where you have large scale PvP. They already have PVE, and Small scale PvP game modes, this is their large scale PvP game mode. Of course you can play different ways in a large scale PvP game mode, however, it should be designed around large scale PvP since this is the only place in the game for that and the other styles of play already have their own modes.

All I’m saying is players have to change. It is not like it used to be where there were lots of smaller groups out taking or trying to take multiple objectives. It hasn’t been this way for a long time. Everyone is stuck in zerg mode.

IMO wvw was never supposed to be just massive large scaled fights in one spot.. The lag in massive fights tells me that lol I think is was suppose to be more smaller scaled fights happening all over the maps. Anyway we we’ll find out soon and I’m looking forward to it. Going to be up to the players though to change the game mode.

Players change all the time due to changes made to the game. Players moved fights outside of keeps due to changes made to arrow carts. If you want to move the fights back to the keeps you give them a good reason to and it will happen. Anet gave them a good reason not to is why they stopped fighting there in the first place.

Lag has nothing to do with whether or not it was designed for large scale PvP.. if that were the case people would think EVE online was made for small scale PvP and it is far from that. Lag is something they hope to reduce, not something that prevents you from having large scale PvP at all. The reason WvW exists at all is due to the surveys they gave players from GW1 asking for large scale PvP, otherwise they would still just have arenas as they did with GW1. MANY players asked for large scale PvP and they told us they were giving it to us so of course we should expect them to keep their word.

I have never been on a server where there was only zerg fighting going on, there have always been havoc and roamers as well. The way it works is the zerg fights the enemy zerg over objectives and while they do that smaller teams battle it out over other objectives at the same time. For example, say the attacking zerg is fighting the defensive zerg at bravos, that is a great time for havoc to hit QL and fight the defenders there since the enemy zerg will be unable to be in both places at the same time and will likely not be able to respond to QL. If it is just a havoc group, it will be difficult for them to take a tower if you even have 2 defenders on siege though since with disablers and counter siege they will never be able to get a wall/ gate down since defending is the easiest thing to do in the game already.

TBH siege is too OP and didn’t need to be buffed because defending was already insanely easy since you have the advantage of having the wall/ gate barriers and not only do the attackers have to survive to make it in, they are not going to be able to do so at all without some sort of siege and you can take that siege out easily if you are prepared to do so and know how to properly utilize your siege and disablers. Defending was already the easiest thing you can possibly do in the game and adding ridiculousness such as airships, siege shield generators, and increasing damage from Arrow carts make it feel like you are playing the game in idiot mode. Even a couple of players can defend against a zerg with all that nonsense and it is just silly if you have player running to EotM or elsewhere for supply then it just gets really absurd since it can take forever to do any damage at all since you are not even really wearing them down.

whoa its too late to read all that but i skimmed through and read the part where a havoc group can’t take a tower defended by 2 players LOLOLOL they should unistall

i’m done

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

game mode has always been about taking over the environment. for me it started to die when people started to only care about the fights. guilds left servers to look for them fights and usually didn’t last where they went when the fights died down.

once people understand that this game mode is not just about fights maybe the complaints about siege and too much pve will go away. i wouldn’t have put in as many hours as i did if it was some sort of death mode with skill spamming in large numbers. that is fun for about 1 hour to me before i sway away from the zerging and do my own thing..

players that do not want to fight are not going to fight if you remove the npc’s that a lot of people seem to want to farm. if npc’s didn’t drop any loot i wouldn’t be in this game mode because when there are not any players around to fight i fight npcs.

i’m all for better rewards but seriously there are so many different ways to play in wvw and some seem to only care about what they do which is looking for fights. you take away npc loot you lose all those players that would rather take objectives when the big zergs are clashing it out.

The issue is the fights should be over objectives, that is what any battlefield PvP game mode should be about. There is no need to play a PvP game mode to PvD, Kill NPC, get chest, that is what PvE is for. That is the primary reason WvW has been bleeding players since the beginning is many players only bought this game to large scale PvP. Anet failing to treat it like a PvP game mode is why they left. If you are fighting NPC’s not controlled by players instead of players you are not really playing PvP.

There should not be a divide at all between Players that want to win and players who want the challenge of the fight. They should both be working together to win if the game mode was set up properly. The server with the more skilled fighters should ALSO be the server that wins.

The players who do not want to fight other players at all already have 99.999% of the game dedicated for them, it is called PvE. This is the tiny section of the game that is supposed to be about PvP.

Scouts maintaining guarding and defending objectives are far from being zerglings. LOL

yes, fights should be over objectives like they used to be in the old days.. nowadays its blob this and blob that. k-train or be k-trained. till the PLAYERS split up it will always be this way

pve is boring maybe? maybe some people like the thrill of trying to ninja a tower to help out the server and know that they could be killed at any minute if a zerg shows up. you know some people actually do still try and help the server out that they are on.

not sure what you are talking about in your last statement about scouting and defending. no where did i mention or call anyone a zergling. i basically said servers have all different type of players on them and need them all but some of you only care about the fighting part of this game mode..

I disagree that it was the players fault this happened AND that " it will always be this way" this happened due to the malfunction in the game design, not due to " this is just the way it is". The increase in AC damage moved the fights from the keeps to the open field. It is actually pretty easy to bring the fights back to the objectives, you need to give them a reason to. Make the loot in game objective based giving best loot to players fighting over objectives making the defending team slightly higher than the offense to encourage defending over K training. If they do not wish to reduce AC damage on players, they need to instead remove the loot and PPK from siege damage on players thus making it so most will choose to fight with their character instead of with siege. That way, yes the AC can give you an advantage in the fight, but you will have to sacrifice your loot and PPK to do so. Players making hard choices are all of what makes a battlefield PvP fun and challenging.

The comment about " zerglings" is replacing NPCs with players actually helps roamers and havoc more than it helps the zerg, since those few that guard the objectives are actually just highly effective roamers helping their server. You do not need to PvD to help your server.

not the first time someone disagreed with me.. i’d be more surprised if someone actually did agree with me. you can blame the game mechanics but the players play style has. i get tired of diving into some zergs with few people while everyone else runs the other way.

not even going to go into a long rant about siege. people that complain about siege in towers to me just want to take easy objectives. there are ways to counter siege in objectives and draw out the fights. as for open field siege, that should be focused first. if you can’t focus the siege first you are doing it wrong. yes siege is annoying but tbh i don’t even remember the last time i died to siege.

used to try several things to fight over objectives but now it seems like if there is any siege and players in a tower, we move on to the next empty objective. again the players play style has changed.

The siege hurts the roamers and havoc, not the zergs since anything the one can do the many can do but much much worse. When you have an entire zerg on siege vs the poor schmucks that happen to roll up into that, it is a sad site to see. I think many do not think about the effect on the game when the entire zergs are on siege, and that is the end result when siege usage is encouraged or rewarded. It is only due to players realizing this and choosing to have fun over that mess that it doesn’t happen more frequently than it currently does. You can treb the crap out of the tower/ keep and take out all their siege prior to moving in if you really want to. It isn’t like it takes any skill, just most get very bored doing so is the only reason it doesn’t happen like it can/ has been done. Long drawn out siege battles with zerg vs zerg all on siege have been done and were so boring players do not even bother anymore since they play games to have fun and no one considers that fun.

Games are meant to be fun, and if they are not fun for the majority of players, those players just take their business elsewhere. ( which is the current state of the game). Luckily Anet is finally seeing this, so hopefully that means they are trying to correct that and save the game mode from it’s current path of self destruction. The majority of players will not continue to play WvW for years to PvD. If you want to keep players and make the game mode grow you are going to have to offer nonstop challenging, fun PvP action in a PvP game mode.

lol siege hurt roamers. what’s a roamer doing sitting in siege fire?? you must play on some server that doesn’t exists because I’ve never seen an entire zerg all sitting on siege. smart roamers go for smart kills and objectives. those are some pretty bad roamers if they came across an objective and tried to take it from an entire zerg..

yes game is meant to be fun. ever think that some people have fun pvd’ing? ever think that some people have fun shooting siege at people? eotm seems to be popping with players and to me that is only pvd’ing so don’t go and throw the majority of players prefer this over that.

you are all over the place in this discussion. if players do not change from zerging and k-training then pvd’ing will not change one bit. i prefer fighting over everything but the fights are not like they used to be because the players have changed.

that’s all i can say on this topic.. if players do not change don’t expect a patch/buff/nerf or a fix to change the game mode

Roamers cannot take any objectives that are defended with siege. In a flourishing, balanced game, every objective will be defended, every server open will be populated, and there will be no vacant dead maps open. From my understanding, that should be the case when they solve the population issues very soon.

Undefended PvD was never meant to be part of the game mode, because they intended this game mode to be populated. WvW was the only play in GW2 where you have large scale PvP. They already have PVE, and Small scale PvP game modes, this is their large scale PvP game mode. Of course you can play different ways in a large scale PvP game mode, however, it should be designed around large scale PvP since this is the only place in the game for that and the other styles of play already have their own modes.

All I’m saying is players have to change. It is not like it used to be where there were lots of smaller groups out taking or trying to take multiple objectives. It hasn’t been this way for a long time. Everyone is stuck in zerg mode.

IMO wvw was never supposed to be just massive large scaled fights in one spot.. The lag in massive fights tells me that lol I think is was suppose to be more smaller scaled fights happening all over the maps. Anyway we we’ll find out soon and I’m looking forward to it. Going to be up to the players though to change the game mode.

Players change all the time due to changes made to the game. Players moved fights outside of keeps due to changes made to arrow carts. If you want to move the fights back to the keeps you give them a good reason to and it will happen. Anet gave them a good reason not to is why they stopped fighting there in the first place.

Lag has nothing to do with whether or not it was designed for large scale PvP.. if that were the case people would think EVE online was made for small scale PvP and it is far from that. Lag is something they hope to reduce, not something that prevents you from having large scale PvP at all. The reason WvW exists at all is due to the surveys they gave players from GW1 asking for large scale PvP, otherwise they would still just have arenas as they did with GW1. MANY players asked for large scale PvP and they told us they were giving it to us so of course we should expect them to keep their word.

I have never been on a server where there was only zerg fighting going on, there have always been havoc and roamers as well. The way it works is the zerg fights the enemy zerg over objectives and while they do that smaller teams battle it out over other objectives at the same time. For example, say the attacking zerg is fighting the defensive zerg at bravos, that is a great time for havoc to hit QL and fight the defenders there since the enemy zerg will be unable to be in both places at the same time and will likely not be able to respond to QL. If it is just a havoc group, it will be difficult for them to take a tower if you even have 2 defenders on siege though since with disablers and counter siege they will never be able to get a wall/ gate down since defending is the easiest thing to do in the game already.

TBH siege is too OP and didn’t need to be buffed because defending was already insanely easy since you have the advantage of having the wall/ gate barriers and not only do the attackers have to survive to make it in, they are not going to be able to do so at all without some sort of siege and you can take that siege out easily if you are prepared to do so and know how to properly utilize your siege and disablers. Defending was already the easiest thing you can possibly do in the game and adding ridiculousness such as airships, siege shield generators, and increasing damage from Arrow carts make it feel like you are playing the game in idiot mode. Even a couple of players can defend against a zerg with all that nonsense and it is just silly if you have player running to EotM or elsewhere for supply then it just gets really absurd since it can take forever to do any damage at all since you are not even really wearing them down.

whoa its too late to read all that but i skimmed through and read the part where a havoc group can’t take a tower defended by 2 players LOLOLOL they should unistall

i’m done

If a havoc group can take a tower with anyone there at all to defend it, the defenders should /uninstall because defending is the easiest thing to do in the game… if they do not know how to use disablers and siege why are they even playing the game mode? Do they not know how to use their invuls, trebs, cats, balis, and ACs? With just a few players with disablers you can keep them out forever on your corner of a map since you can still run supply to your objectives.. Of course you cannot cure duface if they do not know how to use invuls, disablers, siege or run supply.

Even when they are trebbing protected from SM on a supply hut you can usually get a guild cat up to get in there to get that treb down or counter treb it, though they rarely even bother with that these days and give up if there is someone in the tower and move on. I mean if you sit there and look at their siege and do nothing like an idiot, of course you can expect to lose a tower since you are serving it to them on a silver platter.

Good grief .. if you are alone defending a tower and are not going to be able to keep it, you ask for " a few players to come help" in team chat or TS and BAM! You have reinforcements.. If players cannot be bothered to do any of that they should just give up and go back to PvE, they deserve to have all their objectives taken at that point.