Guild Wars 2

Given higher and higher access to damage, camps are getting taken faster and faster from a small scale/solo perspective.

From the time a camp is attacked by a solo roamer or small group, to the time white swords pop alerting defenders to check, the ring is already up and the camp is taken long before any defender reaches.

I suggest lengthening the time for the ring to fill for taking camps so that defenders have more time to respond to the white sword popping.

I’ve flipped over 20k+ camps roaming and it’s true I can clear them a few seconds before the swords appear, it is based off when you first aggro the supervisor, that is when the swords timer begins shall we say. However there are also sentrys that alert your position, so in reality there is a good chance for home defenders to know exactly which camps are likely to be attacked next, although ofc a smart roamer would not go near the sentry.

Short vid of how I used to flip camps pre hot, can do it even faster now with the power creep, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSz-Wv2GubQ

Camp timer/swords are triggered as soon you aggro any guard these days. But ya takes like 10sec to wrap em up in one bunch, aoe and dead.

Offair.2563:

Camp timer/swords are triggered as soon you aggro any guard these days.

Nope, it’s still based off the supervisor, goto a camp and kill a guard without aggroing the supervisor, then wait 1 min and watch how no swords appear. This is still true of alpine borders, not tested it on desert cos I’m retired from camp flipping ;P

P.S that was the technique I used to use to flip your upgraded camps without creating swords :P I would pick off all the loose guards first, without aggroing the supervisor then go aoe mode with a number I could handle.

Vavume.8065:

Offair.2563:

Camp timer/swords are triggered as soon you aggro any guard these days.

Nope, it’s still based off the supervisor, goto a camp and kill a guard without aggroing the supervisor, then wait 1 min and watch how no swords appear. This is still true of alpine borders, not tested it on desert cos I’m retired from camp flipping ;P

P.S that was the technique I used to use to flip your upgraded camps without creating swords :P I would pick off all the loose guards first, without aggroing the supervisor then go aoe mode with a number I could handle.

No, it’s no longer like this since they changed the costest method to be when you aggro anything that belong to the objective (including towers and keeps).

Jeknar.6184:

Vavume.8065:

Offair.2563:

Camp timer/swords are triggered as soon you aggro any guard these days.

Nope, it’s still based off the supervisor, goto a camp and kill a guard without aggroing the supervisor, then wait 1 min and watch how no swords appear. This is still true of alpine borders, not tested it on desert cos I’m retired from camp flipping ;P

P.S that was the technique I used to use to flip your upgraded camps without creating swords :P I would pick off all the loose guards first, without aggroing the supervisor then go aoe mode with a number I could handle.

No, it’s no longer like this since they changed the costest method to be when you aggro anything that belong to the objective (including towers and keeps).

Alright, R.I.P that tactic then.

Vavume.8065:

Jeknar.6184:

Vavume.8065:

Offair.2563:

Camp timer/swords are triggered as soon you aggro any guard these days.

Nope, it’s still based off the supervisor, goto a camp and kill a guard without aggroing the supervisor, then wait 1 min and watch how no swords appear. This is still true of alpine borders, not tested it on desert cos I’m retired from camp flipping ;P

P.S that was the technique I used to use to flip your upgraded camps without creating swords :P I would pick off all the loose guards first, without aggroing the supervisor then go aoe mode with a number I could handle.

No, it’s no longer like this since they changed the costest method to be when you aggro anything that belong to the objective (including towers and keeps).

Alright, R.I.P that tactic then.

I used that tactic too previously especially against T3 camps when you don’t want to pop the swords too early.

No longer works though.

But fact remains that ring goes up before swords pop if the player knows what to do. Doesn’t give defenders much reaction time unless they were already near the camp.

EremiteAngel.9765:

Vavume.8065:

Jeknar.6184:

Vavume.8065:

Offair.2563:

Camp timer/swords are triggered as soon you aggro any guard these days.

Nope, it’s still based off the supervisor, goto a camp and kill a guard without aggroing the supervisor, then wait 1 min and watch how no swords appear. This is still true of alpine borders, not tested it on desert cos I’m retired from camp flipping ;P

P.S that was the technique I used to use to flip your upgraded camps without creating swords :P I would pick off all the loose guards first, without aggroing the supervisor then go aoe mode with a number I could handle.

No, it’s no longer like this since they changed the costest method to be when you aggro anything that belong to the objective (including towers and keeps).

Alright, R.I.P that tactic then.

I used that tactic too previously especially against T3 camps when you don’t want to pop the swords too early.

No longer works though.

But fact remains that ring goes up before swords pop if the player knows what to do. Doesn’t give defenders much reaction time unless they were already near the camp.

That’s pretty much been the case for years though.
The only real difference is camps are rarely upgraded any more. In the past when players controlled the upgrade process you could get the extra guards a lot earlier giving you more time to respond.

With the HoT buffs camps are far too easy to take, I can take one on my ranger usually long before any defender turns up. The only time I had problems was a T3 camp with iron guards a long time ago, they started respawning before I could kill the last one.

Then, I do occasionally watch others get downed trying to take camps solo. I suspect them being new to camp capping.

early HoT iron guards could be used on camps. Devs thought camps were hard enough without that buff, so no more.

DaVid Darksoul.4985:

early HoT iron guards could be used on camps. Devs thought camps were hard enough without that buff, so no more.

I was disappointed in that change, was really looking forward to defending enemy bl camps and using iron guards.

The best way to defend camps has always been to know where the enemy is going and get there first. Used to be like hunting. Watching sentries twitch on the map, estimating how many based on how long it takes them to disappear the flag, watching yaks twitch/disapear, finding missing veteran creature events and so on. Gotta learn to read the map not just depend on white swords. Mini-map timers have made it easier as you can bet there is someone drooling over that sub-30sec RI timer on camp capture daily days. That and orange dot sentry markers that last just long enough to know which direction the enemy is heading next.

Just two people could take down an Iron guard camp fairly easily, provided there were no actual people there. Personally I would have left that option in. I’m sure many did take them down solo, a condi necro should be able to do that well enough.

Not to gloat but as a trapper ranger I can solo cap a camp well before white swords appear simply by attacking the veteran supervisor and forcing the other NPCs to cluster together. Given that the increases to damage since HoT solo captures of camps and even towers is really not hard.The power creep to player classes has over taken the Power of the WvW NPC.So I would agree that some sort of adjustment is warranted.But this would also cause problems in lower populated servers where a group may only be able to afford one person to cap a camp .

Camps should remain easy for solo players. People complain that all anyone does is zerg and yet you want to make it so you have to have a group to accomplish anything.
Pay attention to the map, it’s usually pretty easy to figure out where a roamer is going to hit, especially with all the passive radar crap all over the place.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Camps should remain easy for solo players. People complain that all anyone does is zerg and yet you want to make it so you have to have a group to accomplish anything.
Pay attention to the map, it’s usually pretty easy to figure out where a roamer is going to hit, especially with all the passive radar crap all over the place.

And let’s be honest, most roamers actually want you to know where they are going because they want you to come fight them. I personally don’t skip sentries and I follow a clear pattern even when there is a RI camp in the way (Except in DBL, I take weird routes there but still follow the pattern with camps).

Jeknar.6184:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Camps should remain easy for solo players. People complain that all anyone does is zerg and yet you want to make it so you have to have a group to accomplish anything.
Pay attention to the map, it’s usually pretty easy to figure out where a roamer is going to hit, especially with all the passive radar crap all over the place.

And let’s be honest, most roamers actually want you to know where they are going because they want you to come fight them. I personally don’t skip sentries and I follow a clear pattern even when there is a RI camp in the way (Except in DBL, I take weird routes there but still follow the pattern with camps).

Yup same here. The only time I hop around trying to be sneaky is when they are constantly responding with 5+ players, and in that situation I’m only sneaking around to force them to spread out so I can get a good fight.

They have the choice to spread out and fight a little more fairly or lose their kitten.

EremiteAngel.9765:

Given higher and higher access to damage, camps are getting taken faster and faster from a small scale/solo perspective.

From the time a camp is attacked by a solo roamer or small group, to the time white swords pop alerting defenders to check, the ring is already up and the camp is taken long before any defender reaches.

I suggest lengthening the time for the ring to fill for taking camps so that defenders have more time to respond to the white sword popping.

Why? If your team wants to keep a camp, post a sentry. I think it’s great that solo roamers can play havoc with an enemy’s supply lines (even though I admit to getting annoyed when we lose our home BL’s N-camp).

EremiteAngel.9765:

Given higher and higher access to damage, camps are getting taken faster and faster from a small scale/solo perspective.

From the time a camp is attacked by a solo roamer or small group, to the time white swords pop alerting defenders to check, the ring is already up and the camp is taken long before any defender reaches.

I suggest lengthening the time for the ring to fill for taking camps so that defenders have more time to respond to the white sword popping.

This game mode barely respects play time as it is. They slowed things down with, beefy npcs, hardened gates, shield gens, and now gate cannons. On the flip side, as you pointed out, HoT “Spam” balance sped up small scale stuff.

On the whole, I’d rather not slow down WvW anymore than it already is (including the lag!).

What if you only have 15 minutes of play time but want WvW experience? 30 minutes? 60 minutes? 2 hours? Etc.

How much of that time do you want players want to fight auto-attack damage sponge npcs on an empty camp?

Nope camps are fine. Newer player should be able to contribute in wvw without having ascended gear and guard killer/defense traits to take a camp. Not everything should be focused on team play in wvw.

Ulion.5476:

Nope camps are fine. Newer player should be able to contribute in wvw without having ascended gear and guard killer/defense traits to take a camp. Not everything should be focused on team play in wvw.

Agreed, camps and sentries are the few objectives that solo players can consistently work on to contribute to their server. No point in making in harder so they can get ganged up on. Heck one roamer going around a map flipped camps can be a pain in the butt. Making it take longer can also hurt defenders that can only spare a few people to recap camps while something like a keep is being attacked. Can’t tell you how many times a large attacking force was driven off because it was supply starved when just a few people ninja-ed the camps away from them.

I think camps need to upgrade more quickly, not take longer to capture.

What about killing all npcs before ring goes up. Some camps on dl still have npcs out side the ring Un aggroed but can still be fliped

Fat Disgrace.4275:

What about killing all npcs before ring goes up. Some camps on dl still have npcs out side the ring Un aggroed but can still be fliped

These are escorts and quartermaster.

Quartermaster doesn’t matter.

Would be better if escorts (all veterans, really) pulled when the supervisor is pulled.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I think camps need to upgrade more quickly, not take longer to capture.

Would be nice if they didn’t take as long to upgrade, but it also shouldn’t happen too quickly either. You should have to defend your supply camp if you want it to get to T3.

I’m not a fan of making supply camps harder. They are supposed to be easy to solo, but newer players don’t have those guard killer masteries in WvW yet, reducing their damage by 10%, they aren’t decked out in ascended, reducing their damage further, and they probably aren’t as efficient as killing guards. Making the camps harder only hurts these players. That said, once they are upgraded to T2 I don’t see a problem with promoting the supervisor to elite. Its only a small buff, yet it is significant against someone who isn’t comfortable fighting multiple veteran+ enemies at once, and buys just a bit more time for defenders if they actually defend their camp and get it to T2.

camps should be able to take down with atleast 3 people (like a guild mission) not only one

JemL.3501:

camps should be able to take down with atleast 3 people (like a guild mission) not only one

Ya like fracals…Oh wait people solo those and they are balanced for 5 people lols. Yeah if they made guards hard enough that it “required” 3 people I assure you that people would still solo them in under 30sec.

Justine.6351:

JemL.3501:

camps should be able to take down with atleast 3 people (like a guild mission) not only one

Ya like fracals…Oh wait people solo those and they are balanced for 5 people lols. Yeah if they made guards hard enough that it “required” 3 people I assure you that people would still solo them in under 30sec.

i didnt mean that

camps should be able to only be capped if there is 3 people in that circle, that is better explained, and the reason of 3 would mainly be because guild missions require 3 atleast for be completed

actually everything should require 3 people inside the circle for be able to cap it except sentrys

JemL.3501:

Justine.6351:

JemL.3501:

camps should be able to take down with atleast 3 people (like a guild mission) not only one

Ya like fracals…Oh wait people solo those and they are balanced for 5 people lols. Yeah if they made guards hard enough that it “required” 3 people I assure you that people would still solo them in under 30sec.

i didnt mean that

camps should be able to only be capped if there is 3 people in that circle, that is better explained, and the reason of 3 would mainly be because guild missions require 3 atleast for be completed

actually everything should require 3 people inside the circle for be able to cap it except sentrys

This sounds like a horrible change. It completely destroys the solo roamers as they would no longer be able to do anything except kill sentries and dolyaks. They wouldn’t be able to flip camps or towers anymore.

JemL.3501:

Justine.6351:

JemL.3501:

camps should be able to take down with atleast 3 people (like a guild mission) not only one

Ya like fracals…Oh wait people solo those and they are balanced for 5 people lols. Yeah if they made guards hard enough that it “required” 3 people I assure you that people would still solo them in under 30sec.

i didnt mean that

camps should be able to only be capped if there is 3 people in that circle, that is better explained, and the reason of 3 would mainly be because guild missions require 3 atleast for be completed

actually everything should require 3 people inside the circle for be able to cap it except sentrys

Yes let’s just continue to kill roaming and then we can make more threads about how wvw is nothing but zergs and it’s dead outside of prime time….
Smfh

OriOri.8724:

This sounds like a horrible change. It completely destroys the solo roamers as they would no longer be able to do anything except kill sentries and dolyaks. They wouldn’t be able to flip camps or towers anymore.

They shouldn’t be able to do that anyway. Following his logic, since Sentry Mission require 3 people on cap you also should need 3 people on sentry circle. Oh and Yaks escort also need 3 people to count, so yaks not escorted should not count to upgrade stuff. #LetsMakeWvWGreatAgain.

I am amazed how some people want and prefer that a single miserable guy is able to even cap a castle (if he is strong enough to kill the lord) alone by himself in a place where solo things shouldnt exist, wvw isnt mean for you to solo around

There is no logic behind for have solo stuff in wvw at all, that some stuff let you be able doesnt mean that it was designed for go that way

JemL.3501:

I am amazed how some people want and prefer that a single miserable guy is able to even cap a castle (if he is strong enough to kill the lord) alone by himself in a place where solo things shouldnt exist, wvw isnt mean for you to solo around

There is no logic behind for have solo stuff in wvw at all, that some stuff let you be able doesnt mean that it was designed for go that way

So we should need zergs to take camps and sentry points? Individual players and small teams have no role? Please explain the logic in that. A zerg can take a camp or keep, much the same as an individual. It is just much easier with a zerg.

X T D.6458:

JemL.3501:

I am amazed how some people want and prefer that a single miserable guy is able to even cap a castle (if he is strong enough to kill the lord) alone by himself in a place where solo things shouldnt exist, wvw isnt mean for you to solo around

There is no logic behind for have solo stuff in wvw at all, that some stuff let you be able doesnt mean that it was designed for go that way

So we should need zergs to take camps and sentry points? Individual players and small teams have no role? Please explain the logic in that. A zerg can take a camp or keep, much the same as an individual. It is just much easier with a zerg.

Since when 3 people are called a zerg? i didnt say sentry to need 3 people neither

Individual players have the role to help each other and capture/control points, smaller groups are larget than 3 people so they wont suffer for something like that

There is a reason of why guild missions require players, there is a reason you have squads, etc

All this solo/roamer stuff in this place is just wrong, simple fact appealing for this is even worse than it is right now the whole wvw system

JemL.3501:

I am amazed how some people want and prefer that a single miserable guy is able to even cap a castle (if he is strong enough to kill the lord) alone by himself in a place where solo things shouldnt exist, wvw isnt mean for you to solo around

There is no logic behind for have solo stuff in wvw at all, that some stuff let you be able doesnt mean that it was designed for go that way

What the actual kitten……

JemL.3501:

I am amazed how some people want and prefer that a single miserable guy is able to even cap a castle (if he is strong enough to kill the lord) alone by himself in a place where solo things shouldnt exist, wvw isnt mean for you to solo around

There is no logic behind for have solo stuff in wvw at all, that some stuff let you be able doesnt mean that it was designed for go that way

And I’m amazed that some people don’t understand there are many different ways to play WvW besides zerging.

Although I can understand how some might be frustrated at the thought of losing a structure to a single player, the fault lies entirely on poor scouting and defence. With all the latest changes to WvW since HoT dropped, soloing anything besides supply camps has become substantially more difficult. If a player manages to do that, good for them.

And this is not including your own towers that are unupgraded and unprotected. I’m talking about soloing an enemy tower that has at least a few guild buffs or siege.

Roaming is but a shadow of it’s former self and anyone who used to roam in the glory days knows that. Now, most players are in packs of 3 – 10 or with a zerg. While that’s all fine and good, it makes excitement for players like myself, and others who enjoy contributing on a single player level, much more difficult. There’s nothing more discouraging than having a great 1vX, narrowly winning and getting blind-sided by a guild or taking 20 minutes to open a tower and kill defenders only to be zerged when you reach the champion.

You can absolutely still solo roam but it’s far more punishing than it used to be. Many players have quit doing so, have turned to “cheesy” (builds that are able to reset easily) builds or stick tight to their guilds cliques. I don’t think we need to make solo roaming any harder than it already is by making camps harder to capture.

JemL.3501:

X T D.6458:

JemL.3501:

I am amazed how some people want and prefer that a single miserable guy is able to even cap a castle (if he is strong enough to kill the lord) alone by himself in a place where solo things shouldnt exist, wvw isnt mean for you to solo around

There is no logic behind for have solo stuff in wvw at all, that some stuff let you be able doesnt mean that it was designed for go that way

So we should need zergs to take camps and sentry points? Individual players and small teams have no role? Please explain the logic in that. A zerg can take a camp or keep, much the same as an individual. It is just much easier with a zerg.

Since when 3 people are called a zerg? i didnt say sentry to need 3 people neither

Individual players have the role to help each other and capture/control points, smaller groups are larget than 3 people so they wont suffer for something like that

There is a reason of why guild missions require players, there is a reason you have squads, etc

All this solo/roamer stuff in this place is just wrong, simple fact appealing for this is even worse than it is right now the whole wvw system

You cannot always have a group available.

JemL.3501:

I am amazed how some people want and prefer that a single miserable guy is able to even cap a castle (if he is strong enough to kill the lord) alone by himself in a place where solo things shouldnt exist, wvw isnt mean for you to solo around

There is no logic behind for have solo stuff in wvw at all, that some stuff let you be able doesnt mean that it was designed for go that way

If a single person can cap a tower or a keep before anyone gets there to defend then by all means they should be allowed to take it and claim it for their server. Its ridiculous that you guys want to discourage small groups even more than they are already are. Hell if someone can singlehandedly kill the SM lord then by all means give them kittening SM. They clearly showed that they can play well.

Going by your logic everything should be scaled to a 10+ person group because WvW is about world scale combat, therefor anything less than 10 people shouldn’t count anymore.

Vavume, impressive vid. I enjoyed it. I would love to run into you sometime. You won’t be taking my camps. But, really loved your vid. You look amazing.

Kill solo and duo roaming cause it too powerful!

This thread went embarrassing…

Electra.7530:

Vavume, impressive vid. I enjoyed it. I would love to run into you sometime. You won’t be taking my camps. But, really loved your vid. You look amazing.

Thankyou, if I was still taking camps, you would find it hard to stop me :P best example I can give you is [Rise] on Gunnars Hold, they used to have 5 rangers with sic’em hunt me all night every night either in a group or spread over the map, I still took there camps but ofc they caught me out too, those guys really knew how to defend a border and it was an honor to have played against them.
Having said that you may still run into me at some stage, I’m kinda back to roaming a bit now and again, see you out there, let me know if you do run into me :P

JemL.3501:

I am amazed how some people want and prefer that a single miserable guy is able to even cap a castle (if he is strong enough to kill the lord) alone by himself in a place where solo things shouldnt exist, wvw isnt mean for you to solo around

There is no logic behind for have solo stuff in wvw at all, that some stuff let you be able doesnt mean that it was designed for go that way

If one guy manages to solo a keep it is not his fault, but the fault of the “defending” side.

What you suggest completely kills off solo roaming but guess you don’t do that..