Guild Wars 2

Currently GW2, does not have a dedicated roles, like in other MMO’s
So no tank/healer role.

However people intend to fill in this roles in WvW.
Melee classes often are really PVT geared, with a lot of Thougness and Vitality.
Supportive people equip a bite more healing power, and dps/cond classes also focus on enough dps to synchronize with the group synergy.

I play an elementalist within my guild group and I am often attuned to water, when I am running through another big group.
However when I am trying to keep others alive, I am not seeing many loot bags and/or wxp coming my way. I got the feeling that I am missing potentially a big chunk of that.

I would like to request a change in this:
- whenever a supportive role keeps a melee/dps alive, they should receive the same reward (with wxp) as the dps class? Or at least some % of it?

What do you guys think?

Admirable effort, but not going to happen!

The game rewards and always did, those who kills more! Those behind the lines spamming heals and removing conditions for the team are extremely needed but they don’t care.

I always played and still do support roles.

My Nectomancer is specced for AoE / Wells Life Drain!
My Warrior, is a perm Regen and Boons, Banner Warrior. (Lot of +BD and HP).
I usually stay on defense and speed up dolyaks with banner speed skills.

^No rewards for me…

yeah, I am at the same level as you.

I like to keep my team alive and win big fights.
However at the end the leader tells everbody to pick up their loot bags, and I really need to look for some.
While the others cheer about their big amount of loot bag piles

I was just hoping that Anet can address this in some way, so the team play can synchronize even more, and people are not “forced” to switch to fire to drop some damage on someone, whil not helping out thier team at that moment.

And this is why i rolled guardian as front line attacker.
Being support was just so empty, nobody seen it and I just feel useless.

Sylar.6802:

I would like to request a change in this:
- whenever a supportive role keeps a melee/dps alive, they should receive the same reward (with wxp) as the dps class? Or at least some % of it?

What do you guys think?

No. You auto attack something two times and you get full credit for the kill. Why do support characters act like it’s so difficult to tag?

GuardianOMS.8067:

Sylar.6802:

I would like to request a change in this:
- whenever a supportive role keeps a melee/dps alive, they should receive the same reward (with wxp) as the dps class? Or at least some % of it?

What do you guys think?

No. You auto attack something two times and you get full credit for the kill. Why do support characters act like it’s so difficult to tag?

The problem is not tagging 1 or 2 ppl, the problem is the number of loot and gold we get by supporting our team, the selfish play style is still the best option.

This is not a trinity game, I don’t see why you should get more or some reward for support. Tag the enemies, move on.

sminkiottone.6972:

The problem is not tagging 1 or 2 ppl, the problem is the number of loot and gold we get by supporting our team, the selfish play style is still the best option.

learn to do both, problem solved.

the only selfish playstyle is sticking to “i just want to play support! don’t force me to tag if i want loot”

It’s obvious that both of you don’t play support roles, and you probably don’t even know when you are being supported by other players…

ig: Many don’t know that during intense fights, support Necromancers, set wells to strip conditions from allies and give them boons, strip boons from foes and give them conditions and at the same time heal allies and damage foes with life siphoning traits. A lot of kitten happens without most players realizing. Obviously, Dps is largely affected and Cooldowns are higher!

It’s a known fact that support roles receive less loot than offensive roles! Not a matter of being lazy…

/cheers

support & offensive are not a binary, you don’t have choose one and exclude the other.

nothing locks you into a “support role”, except perhaps your own choice to ignore the offense that every build is capable of doing. ie: your problem is one of personal play style, not actual game play.

ps: those wells your “support” necro uses can tag just as well as any other pulsing field(ie: very well)

GuardianOMS.8067:

This is not a trinity game, I don’t see why you should get more or some reward for support. Tag the enemies, move on.

Yes, but supporting for the team can often be more beneficial to more DPS. Example is support ele: to deal aoe damage (for tags) you’d have to switch out of water attunement for 10 seconds when you could be continuously sending out heals to the team. And you’re punished for this. ?

GrandmaFunk.3052:

support & offensive are not a binary, you don’t have choose one and exclude the other.

nothing locks you into a “support role”, except perhaps your own choice to ignore the offense that every build is capable of doing. ie: your problem is one of personal play style, not actual game play.

ps: those wells your “support” necro uses can tag just as well as any other pulsing field(ie: very well)

Different builds are suited for different roles. One cannot expect to deal the same amount of damage wearing Cleric Stats or Wearing Berserker stats. There’s always some deficiencies when pursuing a role, creating that gap.

Many times happens to me in a blob, when setting the Well of Blood (healing), Well of Power (Removing Conditions) and Well of Darkness (Giving AoE Blind), the foes are already dead. It’s not a matter of tag or not. It’s a matter of priorities! I prefer to support first and tag seccond! Any decent supporter will!

But one thing i agree! No1 forced us to support. It was our choice to go support!

LHound.8964:

Different builds are suited for different roles. One cannot expect to deal the same amount of damage wearing Cleric Stats or Wearing Berserker stats.

It doesn’t need to be the same amount of damage to count as a tag.

but if you’re only talking about it from the context of being in a blob… well, no one is playing any real role in a blob anyway, your support is as trivial as your offense in that situation.

I have the perfect solution.

Give rewards to everyone that interacted with someone that got rewarded for the event during that time. Even if there are a few leechers, at least you won’t be penalizing honest players… or does that not rake in enough money to program?

To DevonCarver

1. there is a way to let support classes get World Exp, and not messing up for Kittens sake!!! you can add a Heal Counter yes as in a little bit of code that counts Skill usage and Healing usage for Support Skills the more the Skills are used and the more the skills Heals Allys, Wxp is added to the counter once filled it gives WXP also to prevent Wxp farming in Zergs all you have to do is add a 30 sec Cooldown for it maybe less if you want

2.as for dolyaks you can add another timer you have to stay with the dolyaks for atleast 30-40 secs to prevent farming

3rd Guardians should Get Wexp for Tanking Damage
4th Warriors should get Wexp for Dealing Damage aside from Wxp Granted from Kills-
5th Necromancers Should Get Wexp for adding condidions
6th Rangers Should get Wexp for Scoring Crits on Enemy Pets/Players yes cooldown aswell
7th Engineer’s Should Gets Wexp for Healing or Damaging Enemy’s/Allys with Turrts/reg weps
8th as For Mesmers this is Tricky id Leave it up to Anet to Decide on this little Cookie,
but Believe me -DevonCarver.-
as with Farming Noobs Add anti Farming Timer Cooldowns as I suggested earlier

There is many many MANY ways you can add Stuff in WvW for support/Events in WvW/WvW BL without Screwing it up just take a min listen to what the GW2 Gaming community wants to See in WvW. me personally id wish that the ascalonian Ghosts Would Flip Sm either at reset or at random times between 20-50 mins and Fight a Super Legendary Boss for epic rewards
Nothing is Better than watching a Server Whose Been Owning you Server on EB for the Past 5 Hours Lose Sm because they were overrun by Ghost Army First they’d have to take it Back second its Free for All and Third Epic Boss fight in SM

another thing they can add in WvW is WvW armors and im not talking about invaders im talking Legendary WvW Armor That you can Craft with WvW Mats that you can get from Towers +5% damage to enemy Guardians or +4% Damage resist against other players it help solve Aoe Zergs and Promote more Diverse Builds for WvW armor/trait Sets.

as with everything about guild wars 2 suggestions its not perfect id like to hear what a dev would say about it other than the usual we will think about it and nothing changes
reply but as for the players who play this game im open for your thoughts on this subject

Blast your water fields in the thick of things, they chill/damage foes too. I get plenty of bags. Then again, we’re talking fighting against JQ/BG/FA or Mag zergs. So there’s plenty of targets who get hit.

Problem with providing heals – wxp is … a little option called autoheal that bots have previosuly exploited. Just not going to happen. You could say the same for boons. I mean guardians, warriors and ele’s should all get wxp for boon buffs. Game was designed against healing class so to speak, so why would anyone consider rewarding it (call it what you will / support water ele, you know were saying healer)? Never heard of my lead or commander request me to lay down a chill, or frozen field ever.

PS not going to mis adding guardian or engi into the healer roles, there’s considerable strong healers there too.

OP, as an ele, I agree with you. Most of what I provide is support through heals and control that doesn’t damage, and tagging depends on damage.

It stinks when you land static field or earth 5 on someone who gets destroyed by your group, and you get nothing despite being 90% of the reason that person was caught/killed. I always thought that cc-ing someone should give you kill credit, just as buffing other people who kill should count as some percentage of that kill. In other words, when you heal/boon someone you add the % chance that you get credit for their kills for a time.

Heal bots for everyone!

Why not just allow healing to figure into a kill assist reward. I get WXP for hitting a person for 1 damage, but if I heal someone for 10k health, and don’t damage anyone I get nothing. Why can’t I get kill assist WXP from healing people that score kills and do damage to enemy players?

As a support ele I have the same pain as OP.
My auto attack is too weak and too slow to tag for loots, I need to attack 2-3 times to get the kill reward and most of the time enemies or NPCs will die before I can attack 2 times to tag for the kill reward.

My normal 4 hours run will award me around 100-150 badges and I try with my engineer with the same zerg same amount of time and I get almost 500 badges.

DevonCarver.5370:

The main issue currently with rewarding support classes is the way that participation is determined by the game. It makes it much harder to provide sufficient incentive to people doing things like healing, defending, etc. We have some ideas to try and improve this situation, but it is complicated. The best example I can give is the events to escort the supply dolyaks, which literally just say you helped if you are standing there when it ends, which is not an accurate representation of much of anything.

Until the systems are all capable of properly determining support, it’s difficult to properly reward support and defense. We are working on solutions that I hope will make it somewhat better, however.

You could reward it via shared tags.

If you heal someone by a significant amount (1500hp? That’s like ~8 seconds of regen given out with a clerics build), and that person then scores a kill, then the tag should also be given to the healer.

DevonCarver.5370:

The main issue currently with rewarding support classes is the way that participation is determined by the game. It makes it much harder to provide sufficient incentive to people doing things like healing, defending, etc. We have some ideas to try and improve this situation, but it is complicated. The best example I can give is the events to escort the supply dolyaks, which literally just say you helped if you are standing there when it ends, which is not an accurate representation of much of anything.

Until the systems are all capable of properly determining support, it’s difficult to properly reward support and defense. We are working on solutions that I hope will make it somewhat better, however.

Not an attack or anything of the sort, but why are you afraid to give Yak rewards for just being nearby when you get nearly every single wvw reward just by being inside a circle?

Sylar.6802:

Currently GW2, does not have a dedicated roles, like in other MMO’s
So no tank/healer role.

However people intend to fill in this roles in WvW.
Melee classes often are really PVT geared, with a lot of Thougness and Vitality.
Supportive people equip a bite more healing power, and dps/cond classes also focus on enough dps to synchronize with the group synergy.

I play an elementalist within my guild group and I am often attuned to water, when I am running through another big group.
However when I am trying to keep others alive, I am not seeing many loot bags and/or wxp coming my way. I got the feeling that I am missing potentially a big chunk of that.

I would like to request a change in this:
- whenever a supportive role keeps a melee/dps alive, they should receive the same reward (with wxp) as the dps class? Or at least some % of it?

What do you guys think?

i also play elementalist for my guild. i do get tons of loot. why? because i don’t play only support. staying whole time in water is just playing a bad ele. you have tons of cc while using your staff and since water-blastfinisher rely on the healpower of the person blasting it, there is no point in speccing your ele with healpower.

… and to the ppl saying ele is op…try playing ele vs a retaliation zerg…you die instant no matter how hard you heal.

Insire.7031:

i also play elementalist for my guild. i do get tons of loot. why? because i don’t play only support. staying whole time in water is just playing a bad ele. you have tons of cc while using your staff and since water-blastfinisher rely on the healpower of the person blasting it, there is no point in speccing your ele with healpower.

… and to the ppl saying ele is op…try playing ele vs a retaliation zerg…you die instant no matter how hard you heal.

Thanks for posting this. I never understood pure support characters, you contribute a lot when providing water fields, boons and CCs. But you do even more if you also provide meaningful DPS. I just think pure support is fore people too lazy to multi task roles.

Writetyper.1985:

If you heal someone by a significant amount (1500hp? That’s like ~8 seconds of regen given out with a clerics build), and that person then scores a kill, then the tag should also be given to the healer.

I doubt its that easy. The engine can’t even cope with condition stacks higher than 25.

Keiel.7489:

Thanks for posting this. I never understood pure support characters, you contribute a lot when providing water fields, boons and CCs. But you do even more if you also provide meaningful DPS. I just think pure support is fore people too lazy to multi task roles.

I can only assume you are a zerglet that is too lazy to leave the zerg and certainly too lazy to work with a small team in a way that creates synergy.

If you buffed a dolyak (with speed), buffed an ally in a fight in which they took or dealt damage, or healed them, you should be included for the reward, as well as a bag to the person they damaged.

In Warhammer online healing was equal reward to dealing damage and it really made healers feel rewarded and like they could progress. Now this game doesn’t have ‘healers’ in the trinity sense, but certainly healing as part of a support build is support, and should not be overlooked.

GuardianOMS.8067:

This is not a trinity game, I don’t see why you should get more or some reward for support. Tag the enemies, move on.

Sometimes you guys kill everyone before my ice spike can even hit the ground.

Pendragon.8735:

If you buffed a dolyak (with speed), buffed an ally in a fight in which they took or dealt damage, or healed them, you should be included for the reward, as well as a bag to the person they damaged.

In Warhammer online healing was equal reward to dealing damage and it really made healers feel rewarded and like they could progress. Now this game doesn’t have ‘healers’ in the trinity sense, but certainly healing as part of a support build is support, and should not be overlooked.

buffing doesnt kill ppl, dmg kills ppl….do dmg, get reward. thats the way it should be and it is. imho there is nothing to be fixed.

nothing wrong with supporting ppl, but solely support is total bs in this game. there is no trinity. so playing gw2 as it has one, is players fault and developers shouldnt cope that.

We got Bonus Rank Chests… maybe there is a glimmer of hope that something will be done to retroactively reward roles that the devs admit deserves to be more rewarding. While they are fixing the unrealistic values in the WvW achievements, maybe they could see fit to hand out Bonus Rank Chests or something for threshhold values of Repairing/Defending/Escorting/Etc.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

sminkiottone.6972:

The problem is not tagging 1 or 2 ppl, the problem is the number of loot and gold we get by supporting our team, the selfish play style is still the best option.

learn to do both, problem solved.

the only selfish playstyle is sticking to “i just want to play support! don’t force me to tag if i want loot”

Are you serious ? grow up please.

Somethime you can’t chose the class you want, when you running with the guild is important to have 2/3 full supporter, a skilled supporter will get very less bags than your “not so helpfull” build

Next time pay attention to guardians/eles/necros, you will se that without them the zerg would just be dead 24/7, and yes it’s not easy to heal/buff the zerg, many people are just there to farm, running around like chikens, never stacking up with commander, ecc, they don’t know how to properly play.

DevonCarver.5370:

The main issue currently with rewarding support classes is the way that participation is determined by the game. It makes it much harder to provide sufficient incentive to people doing things like healing, defending, etc. We have some ideas to try and improve this situation, but it is complicated. The best example I can give is the events to escort the supply dolyaks, which literally just say you helped if you are standing there when it ends, which is not an accurate representation of much of anything.

Until the systems are all capable of properly determining support, it’s difficult to properly reward support and defense. We are working on solutions that I hope will make it somewhat better, however.

Is there any techical limitation ? like potential lag from too many calculations ?

SUGGESTION :

Is it possible to get the amount of loot/exp your healed party mates gets ? like every 10k hp you heal will give you 50% of his potential loot for like 1 minute ? ( he/they will still have the same loot )
We need somenthing that does not get exploited.

No problem to do my bags while supporting. Ele or Guardian, both are ok on bag and wxp farming

sminkiottone.6972:

Are you serious ? grow up please.

Somethime you can’t chose the class you want, when you running with the guild is important to have 2/3 full supporter, a skilled supporter will get very less bags than your “not so helpfull” build

Next time pay attention to guardians/eles/necros, you will se that without them the zerg would just be dead 24/7, and yes it’s not easy to heal/buff the zerg, many people are just there to farm, running around like chikens, never stacking up with commander, ecc, they don’t know how to properly play.

What? guardians, nekros and ele are the best classes for tagging enemies?

guardian – staff
nekro – wells, death shroud, staff
ele – staff

==>

nekros: aoe blind, aoe chill, aoe dps
guardians: aoe heal, retaliation spam
ele: aoe cc and aoe dps

and with all these skills you tag enemies….stop whining about how you cant get loot and wxp

If I remove a condition from a friendly player, and that enemy dies that applied the condition, I should get credit for that. That doesn’t seem like something hard to do.

Remove conditions > make loot > people start playing better > everybody’s happy.

Insire.7031:

sminkiottone.6972:

Are you serious ? grow up please.

Somethime you can’t chose the class you want, when you running with the guild is important to have 2/3 full supporter, a skilled supporter will get very less bags than your “not so helpfull” build

Next time pay attention to guardians/eles/necros, you will se that without them the zerg would just be dead 24/7, and yes it’s not easy to heal/buff the zerg, many people are just there to farm, running around like chikens, never stacking up with commander, ecc, they don’t know how to properly play.

What? guardians, nekros and ele are the best classes for tagging enemies?

guardian – staff
nekro – wells, death shroud, staff
ele – staff

==>

nekros: aoe blind, aoe chill, aoe dps
guardians: aoe heal, retaliation spam
ele: aoe cc and aoe dps

and with all these skills you tag enemies….stop whining about how you cant get loot and wxp

And your point?

We all very well know that all classes can get loot! If Elementalists AoE Dps they can get loot, if Necro’s AoE Dps they can get loot, if Guardian DPS they can get loot. Basically if you Dps you can get loot. However, supporters don’t DPS as often as others do! They will start by supporting skills and then they care for the DPS! At this point half of the foes are already dead, so it’s logic they receive half of the loot as well…

It’s a known fact in every game that Support classes (in this cases roles), receive less DPS related benefits than others. Therefore your post is completely redundant.

LHound.8964:

Insire.7031:

sminkiottone.6972:

Are you serious ? grow up please.

Somethime you can’t chose the class you want, when you running with the guild is important to have 2/3 full supporter, a skilled supporter will get very less bags than your “not so helpfull” build

Next time pay attention to guardians/eles/necros, you will se that without them the zerg would just be dead 24/7, and yes it’s not easy to heal/buff the zerg, many people are just there to farm, running around like chikens, never stacking up with commander, ecc, they don’t know how to properly play.

What? guardians, nekros and ele are the best classes for tagging enemies?

guardian – staff
nekro – wells, death shroud, staff
ele – staff

==>

nekros: aoe blind, aoe chill, aoe dps
guardians: aoe heal, retaliation spam
ele: aoe cc and aoe dps

and with all these skills you tag enemies….stop whining about how you cant get loot and wxp

And your point?

We all very well know that all classes can get loot! If Elementalists AoE Dps they can get loot, if Necro’s AoE Dps they can get loot, if Guardian DPS they can get loot. Basically if you Dps you can get loot. However, supporters don’t DPS as often as others do! They will start by supporting skills and then they care for the DPS! At this point half of the foes are already dead, so it’s logic they receive half of the loot as well…

It’s a known fact in every game that Support classes (in this cases roles), receive less DPS related benefits than others. Therefore your post is completely redundant.

He didn’t understood the topic, or he doesn’t know how the combat system works, don’t waste your time with him
Too many think there are only dps roles in this game lol, ppl are quite suprised of the amount of healings i give to them, its like : “oh i tought there were no healers in this game”.. quite amusing

DevonCarver.5370:

Until the systems are all capable of properly determining support, it’s difficult to properly reward support and defense. We are working on solutions that I hope will make it somewhat better, however.

The dolyak escort situation is a bit sticky, so we’ll leave that aside. Getting a chunk of the loot from everyone you heal/remove condis from/gives buffs to when running through the middle of a group melee is probably also iffy in the current game, because this could be a lot of extra data.

So, how about just keeping track of these events at the initiating player, add up all the healing dished out, add a bit of a bonus for giving boons and removing condis, and then give drops from the regular loot table every…, dunno, 4 or 5k healing done?

sminkiottone.6972:

LHound.8964:

Insire.7031:

sminkiottone.6972:

Are you serious ? grow up please.

Somethime you can’t chose the class you want, when you running with the guild is important to have 2/3 full supporter, a skilled supporter will get very less bags than your “not so helpfull” build

Next time pay attention to guardians/eles/necros, you will se that without them the zerg would just be dead 24/7, and yes it’s not easy to heal/buff the zerg, many people are just there to farm, running around like chikens, never stacking up with commander, ecc, they don’t know how to properly play.

What? guardians, nekros and ele are the best classes for tagging enemies?

guardian – staff
nekro – wells, death shroud, staff
ele – staff

==>

nekros: aoe blind, aoe chill, aoe dps
guardians: aoe heal, retaliation spam
ele: aoe cc and aoe dps

and with all these skills you tag enemies….stop whining about how you cant get loot and wxp

And your point?

We all very well know that all classes can get loot! If Elementalists AoE Dps they can get loot, if Necro’s AoE Dps they can get loot, if Guardian DPS they can get loot. Basically if you Dps you can get loot. However, supporters don’t DPS as often as others do! They will start by supporting skills and then they care for the DPS! At this point half of the foes are already dead, so it’s logic they receive half of the loot as well…

It’s a known fact in every game that Support classes (in this cases roles), receive less DPS related benefits than others. Therefore your post is completely redundant.

He didn’t understood the topic, or he doesn’t know how the combat system works, don’t waste your time with him
Too many think there are only dps roles in this game lol, ppl are quite suprised of the amount of healings i give to them, its like : “oh i tought there were no healers in this game”.. quite amusing

i wanted to say, playing full support without using autoattacks and class mechanics is total bs…you can support while doing dps. and there are NO healers in this game…..there is no trinity…you can go burst with guardian if you so desire and you can go full healing. still you can autoattack ppl while using your shouts and dodge rolls and what ever class mechanic u have.

Yak solution:

Why not make the yak the new orb?

Situation 1: Nobody starts a ‘Yak Event’ – so the Yak carries on as normal – running a very predictable path strait from the camp to it’s destination – wherever that may be.

Situation 2: A party of 3-5 players initiate a ‘Yak Event.’ The yak goes into follow mode, following the leader of the party from the camp to it’s destination. The speed of the Yak can be increased a little to encourage players to participate. You could even work in something like a 2-Yak Event. It could be almost like a mini-game.

The only restrictions would be that the yak has to stay on or near the road: no leading yaks off on long pointless paths that lead to nowhere. (This would also limit the effect spies would have – if one server were inclined enough to send saboteurs over to slow yaks down.)

If the party stops for too long, or veers off the path by too large a margin, the Yak resets to the nearest road and heads off to its destination as in situation 1. In other words, the yak terminates its follow command and goes on automatic.

Who gets full credit? Those in the party and only those in the party. No extra ‘hit or miss’ calculations for the server to do and those that want the fun of trying to keep the yak alive get to have their fun.

To reward those that want to help the ‘Escort Party’ – award similar types of points in smaller amounts. If I want to help, but not be tied to the escort party, then I would only get a small amount of ‘credit’ once the yak reaches its destination, assuming I’m near the yak at the end of the path.

Insire.7031:

i wanted to say, playing full support without using autoattacks and class mechanics is total bs…you can support while doing dps. and there are NO healers in this game…..there is no trinity…you can go burst with guardian if you so desire and you can go full healing. still you can autoattack ppl while using your shouts and dodge rolls and what ever class mechanic u have.

Some times you have to chose between the loot and the defeat or the heals and the survival of your group, I often chose the second one.

Trust me, I use auto attacck on healer with staff ( very slow ), but when attuned to water/earth ( which is 80% of the fight ) I do very little dmg, in my experience you need to do at least 1k+ dmg to get a chance of reward, it’s not easy considering the fact that you need like 3 secs to do so ?
Sure you can get rewards, we are not saying that, all supporters get some loot, it’s the amount of it the problem, the system does not reward supportive role, and when you are builded up 80% support you are preatty scrued

And.. there are healers in this game, I’m one of them, we heal and cc very good, a zerg with 2/3 healers is way more effective than a zerg without healers.

Niim.9260:

Keiel.7489:

Thanks for posting this. I never understood pure support characters, you contribute a lot when providing water fields, boons and CCs. But you do even more if you also provide meaningful DPS. I just think pure support is fore people too lazy to multi task roles.

I can only assume you are a zerglet that is too lazy to leave the zerg and certainly too lazy to work with a small team in a way that creates synergy.

You can assume anything you want. I play WvW as a whole and will scout, solo roam, small group, and zerg. I’ve played shout/boon warriors for my previous guild and I got kills just fine. I don’t play Ele, but our main support ele in my previous guild had the highest kill count and she was specced for “support”, and from how she was talking on vent, I didn’t get the impression it was a hard feat. So that is what my assumption was based on.

sminkiottone.6972:

Insire.7031:

i wanted to say, playing full support without using autoattacks and class mechanics is total bs…you can support while doing dps. and there are NO healers in this game…..there is no trinity…you can go burst with guardian if you so desire and you can go full healing. still you can autoattack ppl while using your shouts and dodge rolls and what ever class mechanic u have.

Some times you have to chose between the loot and the defeat or the heals and the survival of your group, I often chose the second one.

Trust me, I use auto attacck on healer with staff ( very slow ), but when attuned to water/earth ( which is 80% of the fight ) I do very little dmg, in my experience you need to do at least 1k+ dmg to get a chance of reward, it’s not easy considering the fact that you need like 3 secs to do so ?
Sure you can get rewards, we are not saying that, all supporters get some loot, it’s the amount of it the problem, the system does not reward supportive role, and when you are builded up 80% support you are preatty scrued

And.. there are healers in this game, I’m one of them, we heal and cc very good, a zerg with 2/3 healers is way more effective than a zerg without healers.

So you do play ele. Do you realise that you only heal by attuning to water(when traited), by dodge rolling(when traited) and by placing your small water field under your allies. your big waterfield doesnt heal, it applies regeneration. those are all very minor heals compared to a guardian who can heal a kitten ton by just standing somewhere(ofc only when traited).

the only real “heal” you can get with your ele is by placing your waterfields and execute some blast finisher in it. since you only have 2 of them (one with a long delay and the other with a fairly high cd) there are way better options to go for. especially if you consider that not the healingpower of the person who sets the water field is taken for calculation of the total healed hp, but the healingpower of the guy blasting your waterfield.

ofc you can still say high regeneration with high boonduration is a great heal, but since your boon sharing is capped at 5 ppl, its imho rather lackluster.

if you want to play support go guardian with hammer and staff and try a aura-share built or altruistic healing. switch to hammer when ever ppl need heal or you see a waterfield and blast it, else get your staff out and spam your 1 and 4 as much as you can. thats in my opinion the best support you can go for and still get way more loot bas and wxp then most other classes do.

Insire.7031:

So you do play ele. Do you realise that you only heal by attuning to water(when traited), by dodge rolling(when traited) and by placing your small water field under your allies. your big waterfield doesnt heal, it applies regeneration. those are all very minor heals compared to a guardian who can heal a kitten ton by just standing somewhere(ofc only when traited).

the only real “heal” you can get with your ele is by placing your waterfields and execute some blast finisher in it. since you only have 2 of them (one with a long delay and the other with a fairly high cd) there are way better options to go for. especially if you consider that not the healingpower of the person who sets the water field is taken for calculation of the total healed hp, but the healingpower of the guy blasting your waterfield.

ofc you can still say high regeneration with high boonduration is a great heal, but since your boon sharing is capped at 5 ppl, its imho rather lackluster.

if you want to play support go guardian with hammer and staff and try a aura-share built or altruistic healing. switch to hammer when ever ppl need heal or you see a waterfield and blast it, else get your staff out and spam your 1 and 4 as much as you can. thats in my opinion the best support you can go for and still get way more loot bas and wxp then most other classes do.

Yes i play ele and i know well my class.

First of all, ele staff has 3 blast finishers + whirl finisher, so there are 4 healing finishers which gives +4k heaelings + regen each ( and regen is not a minor healing lol )

Second point, you need also earth to heal, ’couse 2 blasts are there + cc.

between attunement swap, dodges, geyser+blasts, healing rain + blasts, condition cleans, auto attack and ccs I can restore the HP of my Group many times in 1 minute, with can trips i can moove effectively inside a fight and heal ppl who get lost, healer is much more effective than you and many others think, the meta gaming is evolving, don’t lose the train

sminkiottone.6972:

Insire.7031:

So you do play ele. Do you realise that you only heal by attuning to water(when traited), by dodge rolling(when traited) and by placing your small water field under your allies. your big waterfield doesnt heal, it applies regeneration. those are all very minor heals compared to a guardian who can heal a kitten ton by just standing somewhere(ofc only when traited).

the only real “heal” you can get with your ele is by placing your waterfields and execute some blast finisher in it. since you only have 2 of them (one with a long delay and the other with a fairly high cd) there are way better options to go for. especially if you consider that not the healingpower of the person who sets the water field is taken for calculation of the total healed hp, but the healingpower of the guy blasting your waterfield.

ofc you can still say high regeneration with high boonduration is a great heal, but since your boon sharing is capped at 5 ppl, its imho rather lackluster.

if you want to play support go guardian with hammer and staff and try a aura-share built or altruistic healing. switch to hammer when ever ppl need heal or you see a waterfield and blast it, else get your staff out and spam your 1 and 4 as much as you can. thats in my opinion the best support you can go for and still get way more loot bas and wxp then most other classes do.

Yes i play ele and i know well my class.

First of all, ele staff has 3 blast finishers + whirl finisher, so there are 4 healing finishers which gives +4k heaelings + regen each ( and regen is not a minor healing lol )

Second point, you need also earth to heal, ’couse 2 blasts are there + cc.

between attunement swap, dodges, geyser+blasts, healing rain + blasts, condition cleans, auto attack and ccs I can restore the HP of my Group many times in 1 minute, with can trips i can moove effectively inside a fight and heal ppl who get lost, healer is much more effective than you and many others think, the meta gaming is evolving, don’t lose the train

yea elementalists can heal…you can blow your healing capacity in roughly 12s. with full cleric equipment(about 1600 healingpower) you can heal about 15 maybe even 16k hp on up to 5 ppl. After that your heal skills are on CD and you can do what ever you like. i suggest using air and fire attunement for dps and cc to get some loot.

compared to a cleric guardian, this is rather cute. he can heal about 19-20k hp for 5 ppl in 12s while pretty much all his skills have lower cd. so after those 12s he can use the next weapon skill to heal ppl. i didnt consider his heal ulti in the calculation and i didnt consider dodge rolls. so his healing capacity is way higher.

if you wanna support ppl by healing, playing guardian is imho a better choice. oh and tagging enemies with staff autoattack is btw pretty kitten easy.

btw regeneration is a minor heal. its healing coefficient is 0,125. compared too guardian weapon or utility skills wich coeffcients are around 1, regeneration seems rather cute.

OnTopic: Playing as Ele – your main task should be cc-ing the enemy, because you got the best cc skill there is(static field with a player cap of 50*). this will ensure you getting loot. if this isnt enough you can use your fire 2 and 3 for further tagging ability.

• not sure about this cap, could be higher

And as we all know we can deliver some nice water fields, which can be blasted for some nice aoe heal. aoe condi remove will be provided by just running into it if the ele is traited for it. But since the big one is one a larger cd and the small ones healing amount isnt that great, we need to coordinate with our group to max out its support potential.

if you check the wiki and search for the healing skills of an ele you will realise that all the healing coefficients are rather low. exception is the evasive arcana trait heal, which has a 9s internal cd shared for all attunements.

so healing power isnt very effective on an ele compared to a guardian. it gets even less efficient the more healingpower you stack on your equipment.

so my recommendation is to get stats which benefit your surviveability and dps. if you still want to focus on support, go for allstat armor while defining through your trinkets how much dps or surviveability you want to have.

PS: if anyone is interested, im running the following built:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=Vm;4BJ-U0y4-NFZ0;9;5O-ET;158;24;047AUR;4V19cV19cc-k91;5Vt5uau5vav5w5150D-1T;5cW5PcW5P;9;9;9;9;86k3H

thanks for all the comments and ideas about my initial post.

I do understand all the points of view, and ofc as an ele I am not always running in water.
But I raised this point, mainly because of the current “point-of-view” of the wvw system.

It is all dps focussed.
My idea is aiming at a more versatile wvw engine, who also keeps track of healing done, but maybe also damage reductions or whatever.

Hard core wvw groups will stay and those are the fun groups to run with in Wvw.

I am more hoping that Anet can balance the rewarding system for WXP around it, while keeping track of all the other aspects they put in the game (instead of only power-dps characters)

Antiplay (healing spam, tanky builds, bunkering) should not be rewarded anyway. You already have the reward, and that is that your build will be stronger than the opponent’s build and you will win the fight (considering the numbers are somewhat even). The system should stay the way it is now in order to promote more interesting play that requires a lot more skill.

I didn’t really read through most of the posts, but what I can tell you is that you’re most likely playing your ele wrong. Ele, while very powerful at support, is also extremely important for applying constant pressure and bombing down clumps. If you over-invest into defense, you’re missing the point by a mile. The same goes for Guardians and Warriors. You don’t need to be 100% Soldier’s gear to survive and be effective. That said, you should strive for a minimum of 3k armor and around 20k HP, but you can hit those stats and still have over 60% crit damage, 30% crit chance (all that’s necessary due to perma fury uptime in zergs), 2900-3100 attack, etc…

Also, full Cleric’s is never, ever the solution.

Rewards should be given to all group members within a reasonable range (not afk at border keep).

If you’re not participating your group will kick you anyway.