Guild Wars 2

Are swirling winds supposed to block siege ? If not, are we going to see a fix soon ?

I personally don´t think swirling winds should block siege shots, just makes the “zerg” even more powerful, spamming catapults and blocking every counter shot that comes from Tower. If they got the numbers advantage people can always go for long range trebs or catas glued to the wall, no need to frustrate more the few defenders that actually put the proper siege inside tower with some bugged skill abuse.

You agree it should be fixed or … ?

Yes, they are. Other skills, such as reflects, were intended to but had the unexpected consequence of actually sending the siege shots back where they came from. Sadly, that effect was removed.

I think reflect skills should be able to reflect siege shots back to where they came from personally. Imagine the ping pong matches with trebs and guardians on both sides…

I don’t have any problem with the skill. I think its a fair use of available skills. I’d hate to see it get “fixed”, personally.

REAL.7483:

I personally don´t think swirling winds should block siege shots, just makes the “zerg” even more powerful, spamming catapults and blocking every counter shot that comes from Tower. If they got the numbers advantage people can always go for long range trebs or catas glued to the wall, no need to frustrate more the few defenders that actually put the proper siege inside tower with some bugged skill abuse.

ps: the defenders can use Swirling Winds to block siege shots too.

It won’t be “fixed” There was a official post in this forum some time ago that swirling winds blocking siege is working as intended.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

REAL.7483:

I personally don´t think swirling winds should block siege shots, just makes the “zerg” even more powerful, spamming catapults and blocking every counter shot that comes from Tower. If they got the numbers advantage people can always go for long range trebs or catas glued to the wall, no need to frustrate more the few defenders that actually put the proper siege inside tower with some bugged skill abuse.

ps: the defenders can use Swirling Winds to block siege shots too.

When you are outmanned i don´t see many defenders to use it…
This would force people to use brain and think about the ways to properly siege for a change, this is just the more the better….

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say at this point but SW doesn’t favor larger groups over smaller ones, nor does it favor attackers over defenders.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say at this point but SW doesn’t favor larger groups over smaller ones, nor does it favor attackers over defenders.

It allows you to spam catapults and ignore the possible trebuchet inside the tower, because you got enough elementalists to keep spamming that. Even tho the tower has the siege to counter that, Trebuchet > catapults, the people inside Tower still can´t do crap.
I am assuming they are outmanned, that is why they build siege isn´t it? I am not assuming they can go out and faceroll the attackers, i am speaking about being able (not being able to in this case) defend while outmanned with the proper siege.
It is the same thing if we had some skill to counter Arrow Carts and could just facerub all gates, but ACs are used to defend from RAMs, Trebs are used to defend from catapults, but substantially it is the same thing.

Anet has stated Swirling winds is working as intended.

As for thinking it is unfair, 1 treb operator can take 1-3 players off from the field.

REAL.7483:

I am assuming they are outmanned, that is why they build siege isn´t it?

I don’t understand most of what you’re saying but this is by far the most nonsensical of your statements. Being out-manned has little to do with the reasoning behind building siege weapons.

I agree that attackers who protect their seige using Swirling Winds are very annoying when you’re on the defending side. And this problem affects defenders more, because it’s much harder to use SW to defend a wall, which is often the thing the defenders are most interested in protecting.

But I think this annoyance needs to stay. It’s important for players to have a rich set of abilities, counters for those abilities, counters for the counters, etc. Having a lot of choices is where strategy comes into play.

The walls of a tower already give the defenders an advantage that allows them to hold off a larger number of attackers — the need for attackers to bring overwhelming numbers is a good thing, because it forces them to make hard decisions about whether to defend a lot of things, or attack a few things (the easy zerg answer being “everybody attack one thing”). It allows a team that’s temporarily underpopulated to ‘turtle up’ while they wait for more people to log on.

If you have one guy inside a tower on a treb, it takes 4 people on the outside to counter it (1 catapult operator and 3 elementalists rotating SW). I’d say in this case that the defender already has enough of an advantage, and nerfing SW isn’t necessary.

I’m not saying that WvW balance is perfect, but I don’t think changing SW would necessarily be an improvement.

-ken

It was intended to block siege. Also swirling winds and elementalist is not the only skill or class that can block siege. Although it seems to be the most commonly known.

While intended, I think it should be changed. No skill/strategy in setting up a treb and having 3 eles chain SW, and its pretty much the ultimate counter to anything the defenders try to do other than suicide.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

REAL.7483:

I am assuming they are outmanned, that is why they build siege isn´t it?

I don’t understand most of what you’re saying but this is by far the most nonsensical of your statements. Being out-manned has little to do with the reasoning behind building siege weapons.

Defensive siege is used to give you some edge against larger numbers no? If you got the numbers (quantity and quality ofc) you can always kill them. Why you need AC if you can simply swing your sword on the attackers?
Siege is there to allow you to defend while being outmanned, you don´t necessarily need to have the outmanned buff, but in that specific location at that specific time you are outmanned and need siege to defend.

What swirling winds do is denying the defenders the possibility to defend against a catapult attack with a treb, as long as they got the elementalists protecting the catapults.

Can also think the other way around, let´s think you are trebbing bay inner walls from the cliff, and you can´t get any shot because they got few elementalists protecting the wall. Even tho you can have the most skilled army and choose the long range siege (to make them come to you if they want to defend, away from the Arrow carts), you still might not be able to do damage to the wall because they got couple of elementalists sitting there…

It also adds some advantage to Elementalist class that has nothing to do with overall PvP balance, let’s give warriors the ability to damage walls …

I personally do not agree with this, but if it is working as intended that is ok then, just wanted to know.

It would be nice if the projectile reflecting/absorbing abilities also worked against siege shots… at least to block them. Whirling Defense and Mimic didn’t seem to do anything.

I see a lot of “need an ele” and “need a mesmer” requests in WvW. Either give each profession a unique niche role in WvW or make the things like portals and siege blocking more accessible to more classes.

it got kinda silly in t1 seeing 2 zergs firing blank trebs at each other for an hour before they got bored

Trebs are a distance weapon for taking down walls. SW works pretty well against those shots with several Ele’s blocking from the safety of walls.

Catapults have a faster rate of fire and are shorter ranged…no efficient way for an ele using SW to counter those. The CD for Swirling Winds is no less than 24 sec and you have to trait for that. Ele’s trying to block cata’s with SW are meat for the zerg. They won’t last long.

Swirling Winds is the most boring game mechanic ever. I hate it.

VOLKON.1290:

Yes, they are. Other skills, such as reflects, were intended to but had the unexpected consequence of actually sending the siege shots back where they came from. Sadly, that effect was removed.

I think reflect skills should be able to reflect siege shots back to where they came from personally. Imagine the ping pong matches with trebs and guardians on both sides…

This would make a great WXP bonus. Put X amount of points into a new trait line, and your reflect skills will now reflect siege!!! Would make people that aren’t ele’s useful, AND it would be fun.

Other things in this line could be: A portal skill, something to increase range on siege, … Can’t think of anything else.

I’d like to point out also… if you were smart on the treb/cata and see the attackers are blocking shots… try moving your shot around (shoot short, shoot to the sides) so that they need to guess on where your going to place your shot granted it’s not a perfect solution but I’ve done it and it works but takes a bit more time.

I dislike SW alot. It takes alot out of using siege against siege. It turns an outmanned fight where you could be running aournd a tower thinking of the best siege/placement to counter it to standing on the wall watching them like a kitten It favours zerg warfare more and unbalances further an already unbalanced fight.

Kodel.4871:

I dislike SW alot. It takes alot out of using siege against siege. It turns an outmanned fight where you could be running aournd a tower thinking of the best siege/placement to counter it to standing on the wall watching them like a kitten It favours zerg warfare more and unbalances further an already unbalanced fight.

Pretty much this. Zergs don’t have to worry about returning fire from a heavily outnumbered garrison. The issue with this, however, is how big the AoE is for SW. All the other classes have to get the exact spot right. SW should be smaller.

misterdevious.6482:

I see a lot of “need an ele” and “need a mesmer” requests in WvW. Either give each profession a unique niche role in WvW or make the things like portals and siege blocking more accessible to more classes.

This times a million. It’s frustrating that the effectiveness of golems is directly related to how many mesmers are present, and that a single mesmer hiding in a keep is the difference between being able to mount a proper offense or losing it with the outer wall still intact, while no other class has the ability to sway the tide of WvW as effectively. Elementaltist’s ability to block siege gives them something unique to contribute to WvW, and should therefore stay as it is. Other classes should be able to contribute in equally uniqe ways that directly affect the mechanics of WvW.

I think it’s perfectly viable. You guys are complaining that it only helps the zerg, but you’re forgetting it’s a double edged sword. I singlehandedly saved Klovan from being trebbed from SM using Swirling Winds. They could have still taken it for certain. Considering the keep was fully upgraded and I was blocking every other shot though, it would have taken them twice as long and the trebber eventually I assume got bored and found something else to go do.

Devinchi.2756:

This times a million. It’s frustrating that the effectiveness of golems is directly related to how many mesmers are present, and that a single mesmer hiding in a keep is the difference between being able to mount a proper offense or losing it with the outer wall still intact, while no other class has the ability to sway the tide of WvW as effectively. Elementaltist’s ability to block siege gives them something unique to contribute to WvW, and should therefore stay as it is. Other classes should be able to contribute in equally uniqe ways that directly affect the mechanics of WvW.

Also this! ^

Taking this out takes away the ele’s only real party niche in WvW.