Guild Wars 2

WvW borderlands on Desolation are empty for 3-4 weeks already, and when there are people playing the skill lag is insane when fighting the enemy. Will we ever find a fix for this problem? Cause I noticed playing the game less and less because of this.

(I wont change server)

Fix is in this upcoming patch?

Yes, it is. Now go play.

Seems EU T1 finally got a taste of what NA T1 has been dealing with for many months. The whole murder zerg meta is just plain boring.

pot.6805:

Seems EU T1 finally got a taste of what NA T1 has been dealing with for many months. The whole murder zerg meta is just plain boring.

In NA at least T1 is more balanced. In EU nothing will ever long-term be able to beat Vizunah because in order to do so an opposing server need to stack a lot, and organized guilds will not want to do that because then they have to stand heavy queues which they maybe at the moment don’t have on their current server.

SFR did indeed beat Vizunah a few times but that was because guilds pulled crazy hours every now and then and over time several guilds left the server to go to a lower tier due to several issues, one being queues.

I do not know what kind of joy the people on Vizunah get out of doing WvW but I sincerely hope that for the sake of WvW in the EU brackets they split up more evenly on other French servers so there isn’t a super-stacked server like theirs. Everyone is supposed to want to go to T1 but in EU it’s not like that, people do not want to have their server even enter T1 because they fear the destruction of their server due to the blobbing that exists on Vizunah and the night/daycapping.

So what guilds left ?
From Deso: DSD /Bull /FG /GH – went to tier 3 EU
From SFR : RNV / RG /NOE/ OSC /SIN -went to tier 3 EU

A lot of people cannot play WvW because of the major skill lag problem when fighting this insane large Viz server. We want to fight don’t get me wrong but a majority cannot even press the healing skills without having crazy lag.

The person who goes about World vs World, has a good communication with the community here… but only with the ppl that are having no problems with WvW.

The people that have skill lag are getting no response nothing, how about you reply to a thread with negative comments Anet? Thanks

Most of the organised guilds actually
It’s easier to count which guilds are still active than which guilds left.

Rayya.2591:

So what guilds left ?
From Deso: DSD /Bull /FG /GH – went to tier 3 EU
From SFR : RNV / RG /NOE/ OSC /SIN -went to tier 3 EU

For Deso.. there are many more.. 8-9 in fact not including those guilds which just died due to players becoming bored and no longer playing against the grim reaper which is VS.

Now even the PvX guilds are leaving. As it stands now, Deso has 2 medium sized guilds and a handful of small guilds left.

Teel.9036:

pot.6805:

Seems EU T1 finally got a taste of what NA T1 has been dealing with for many months. The whole murder zerg meta is just plain boring.

In NA at least T1 is more balanced. In EU nothing will ever long-term be able to beat Vizunah because in order to do so an opposing server need to stack a lot, and organized guilds will not want to do that because then they have to stand heavy queues which they maybe at the moment don’t have on their current server.

SFR did indeed beat Vizunah a few times but that was because guilds pulled crazy hours every now and then and over time several guilds left the server to go to a lower tier due to several issues, one being queues.

I do not know what kind of joy the people on Vizunah get out of doing WvW but I sincerely hope that for the sake of WvW in the EU brackets they split up more evenly on other French servers so there isn’t a super-stacked server like theirs. Everyone is supposed to want to go to T1 but in EU it’s not like that, people do not want to have their server even enter T1 because they fear the destruction of their server due to the blobbing that exists on Vizunah and the night/daycapping.

That’s true. I was mainly referring to the huge blobs who run around wiping 20 mans.

RiOT/VcY/FIRE and VoTF left as well to tier 7.

It’s a ploy by ANet to increase gem sales. Eventually people have to xfer out of T1, because you can’t avoid rising there if the other 2 servers tank the matchup.

IN NA, people leave the top three servers all the time. Why this never happens in the EU is a mystery. You would think it would spread out by now and yet it doesn’t seem to.

Slayer Lord.5023:

IN NA, people leave the top three servers all the time. Why this never happens in the EU is a mystery. You would think it would spread out by now and yet it doesn’t seem to.

“People leaving all the time” isn’t exactly the same as almost every hardcore guild leaving all around the same time, without any new people coming in, on 2 out of 3 servers. One of which was built around guilds fighting, another which has had a lot of experience with ups and downs, but generally managed to get new people incoming before even at very high status…. But now it’s paid transfer, gem prices are skyrocketing and nobody really wants to fight any of the t1 servers for various reasons

Slayer Lord.5023:

IN NA, people leave the top three servers all the time. Why this never happens in the EU is a mystery. You would think it would spread out by now and yet it doesn’t seem to.

It has happened in EU since several weeks back, there are only 3 guilds I can name now on SFR when I earlier could name 12. Most guilds have left Deso as well, 6 of the 7 biggest WvW guilds left Deso, leaving two smaller WvW guilds and Iron.

Why it doesn’t happen on Vizunah though is beyond me, the people there do not seem to look for a challenge and persist through queues to get their “entertainment” which consist of taking stuff in BL’s without sizable enemy forces or just holding on to their T3 stuff and escorting dolyaks.

Most people from the Vizunah server are used to play WvW this way, they don’t know any better. ( wouldn’t expect anything from them either )

The thing is: most people want to select the easiest road.

If some professions are overpowered and relatively easy to play, players flock to it e.g. at worst point I saw almost every second player playing a thief in WvWvW (the culling was broken back then). And in recent months d/d elementalists have been very common with the always popular choice like Guardians. If some tactic brings easy wins and success, people use it over and over again. Déjà vu of Déjà vus.

That is why game balance and balancing mechanisms are crucial. Without them we will have a stale repeating game, causing people eventually to get a burn out and leave. Yet Anet is putting their resources in making stuff like Super Adventure jumping whatever…

I don’t blame the French (Visunah). They are like the most of us.

Some Desolation guilds also blob into one mono zerg as well, because it is easy and efficient. Many Desolation players also enjoy wiping a smaller force with bigger one. Any why shouldn’t they? After being wiped out so many times by a mega horde.

Very few players dare to roam solo day after day in tier #1 prime time, not playing thief, elementalist or mesmer (the professions with an easy escape). If you screw, you are dead, no room for mistakes.

Despite the repair costs are very tiny, most people hate to die. Thus they run into the safety of their walls, use siege and gather into big blobs. The game doesn’t punish that in any way. In fact it rewards it. 5-man AoE limit, share your boons, get area heals, run with the karma melee train. If three people kill a Dolyak it gives triple points to the server compared to just one person sniping the Dolyak. I fail to understand Anet’s logic behind this, but blame Anet, don’t blame the players.

Most people don’t like playing the most difficult combinations e.g. multi-kit engineer.

Ayna Micro
PuG commander, who doesn’t yell to people get into tight ball next to me

PS. Anet: instead of moderators closing this thread Please hear our cry. Contact your players! We have a lot of useful suggestions and stuff to tell. WvWvW is after the all the 2nd most popular form of play after pve.

They wont close it, but they wont reply on it too because it doesn’t have positive feedback. I have a question about the skill lag problem and they don’t have an answer,

They wont reply with : " Guys we know our servers cannot handle it, but we are waiting for you guys to change servers yourself so we don’t have to buy better servers.

That’s what I think what is really happening atm.

The answer will probally be :" We are aware of this problem and we are working on it but we have not ETA on it. "

That line seems to be their new hit.

Rayya.2591:

So what guilds left ?
From Deso: DSD /Bull /FG /GH – went to tier 3 EU
From SFR : RNV / RG /NOE/ OSC /SIN -went to tier 3 EU

RNV / RG /NOE/ OSC /siN/ECL/BOON/VcY/RIOT/FIRE and prolly more that i don’t now of left SFR.That is a minimum of 250-400 WvW players less and probabily double considering their pve base.
I don’t know how many playes SFR actually gained with Anet’s free transfers strategy but the server easily lost more then 500 players in the folowing weeks.

Don’t wanna undust my tinfoil hat but it must have rained gems all over the place

Rayya.2591:

So what guilds left ?
From Deso: DSD /Bull /FG /GH – went to tier 3 EU
From SFR : RNV / RG /NOE/ OSC /SIN -went to tier 3 EU

And I assure you we’re having tons of fun In tier 3 what is considered a “blob” is a 40 men team. 40! Vizunah call that a party.

Desolation is not empty, not by a long shot. It just suffers from morale loss and a (very bad IMO) decision by some of its major groups to try and drop out of T1.

I can understand the frustration and the demoralization of playing for over 3 months without the slightest chance of winning, starting the matchup every Friday/Saturday night knowing from the very first tick that no matter how hard you try, no matter how insane the play hours you put in, you don’t stand a chance because VS first, then SFR, then VS again needs just a couple morning cappings to completely erase several days worth of fights and you cannot do anything about it simply because you don’t have the players. I really do.

BUT.

Changing tiers is not going to change the intrinsic fact that the scoring system is fatally flawed and cannot ever give balanced matchups except in rare and random circumstances. All you do by dropping a tier is to move from the side of the one getting roflstomped to the one roflstomping the enemy. And while I can see how enticing it looks after 3+ months of no hope whatsoever, truth is, after a while even roflstomping the enemy week in week out becomes stale too.

It is far better to simply accept the system for what it is and take your fun where you can. Personally, I have a very simple criteria: if when I leave the map Deso caps more points than when I entered, I consider myself to have “won” the engagement. All the more true when I start from utterly desperate situations like having nothing on the map and the enemy having all T3 structures with full supplies and trillions of siege weapons inside. What happens after I log out doesn’t change the fact of what I did while playing myself, and it’s outside of my control anyway.

I guess in a way my mindset is more hardcore that many self proclaimed hardcores, I don’t know. But there’s no denying the scoring system is a pile of crap, and once you realize just how bad it is, the only paths you can take are either to learn to ignore it, or leave the game altogether. Trying to “maneuver” around it is useless, its flaws are too deep and structural to be mitigated in any way.

MagnusLL.8473:

Changing tiers is not going to change the intrinsic fact that the scoring system is fatally flawed and cannot ever give balanced matchups except in rare and random circumstances. All you do by dropping a tier is to move from the side of the one getting roflstomped to the one roflstomping the enemy. And while I can see how enticing it looks after 3+ months of no hope whatsoever, truth is, after a while even roflstomping the enemy week in week out becomes stale too.

Imo this perception is only there because Desolation was almost always in t1 and spent very little time on lower tiers and for a player that has been on Desolation from the beginning is quite hard to make an ideea about overall WvW in EU..

From my personal experience starting on Piken Square and curently ressiden on Baruch bay(T3) fighting up from the bottom up to tier 2 was never once a dull unbalanced fight.

Even at the moment no server that drops a tier or goes up one is neither getting roflstomped or is roflstomping anyone and all fights are enjoyable and balanced in a way that the game experience does not change at all,especially not like the huge difference between t1 and t2 jump.While the winner is frequently decided in the 1st few days of the match you will never see a huge disparity between places like in t1 or t9.Wvw is going on all day and people are fighting for it regardless of score without fear of repair bills( news for VS :gw2 gold is a pixel )

Tldr

Only tiers that have winning servers with ultimate dominance are t9 and curently t1.All from t8 to t2 are fairly exchanging servers between them without feeling any drastic changes in their scores making the gameplay infinitely more enjoyable.

graverr.6473:

Imo this perception is only there because Desolation was almost always in t1 and spent very little time on lower tiers and for a player that has been on Desolation from the beginning is quite hard to make an ideea about overall WvW in EU..

My memory is a bit hazy as I don’t overmuch care for which tier I’m in, but I recall Desolation being in T3 or T4 at some point in time.

As I recall we were bursting through the ranks artificially at one point because of a guild that wanted to ruin gaming. After those ‘clear sky PvDers’ left, Desolation dropped (hard!) and only through their own effort and devotion they managed to climb back up through the ranks.

So yes, we got an unwanted ticket to the top, fell down because of betrayal and managed to rise up from the ruins as a phoenix would rise from the ashes. And I for one am proud of those accomplishments!

MagnusLL.8473:

Desolation is not empty, not by a long shot. It just suffers from morale loss and a (very bad IMO) decision by some of its major groups to try and drop out of T1.

I can understand the frustration and the demoralization of playing for over 3 months without the slightest chance of winning, starting the matchup every Friday/Saturday night knowing from the very first tick that no matter how hard you try, no matter how insane the play hours you put in, you don’t stand a chance because VS first, then SFR, then VS again needs just a couple morning cappings to completely erase several days worth of fights and you cannot do anything about it simply because you don’t have the players. I really do.

I actually have a different view on the matter. I’m glad we’re currently at least trying to drop a tier. Even before SFR rose back to T1, many casual W3-players in Desolation were suffering from lack of morale, and I would’ve switched the drop with Elona anytime. We’ve managed to struggle in T1 with some serious dedication from guilds investing in W3, and it all backfired now as an overall exhaustion. The drop to T2 works as a more than just a morale boost, I think it’s also a good test on how many players in Deso still give a kitten about W3. It’s easy to refer to history and show how we dominated back then, but that’s almost half a year ago. The level of attendance we have atm in Desolation doesn’t look very promising, and I’d actually be very surprised if T2 doesn’t turn out to be a very tight tier for us, if we ever manage to get there.

Timpsu.9324:

The level of attendance we have atm in Desolation doesn’t look very promising, and I’d actually be very surprised if T2 doesn’t turn out to be a very tight tier for us, if we ever manage to get there.

That will depend a lot on how the first night goes. If people come online at Saturday afternoon to see a Deso in first place, or close to it anyway, you will see a sudden surge of activity. Otherwise activity levels will keep being low.

Check out the scores in prime time, and you will see we’re still more than able to match Vizunah and SFR even while intentionally playing badly. Prime time has never been Desolation’s problem, and many of the guilds which left were indeed mostly prime time guilds. Our problem has always been off peak and that hasn’t changed much: we didn’t have anyone before, we don’t have anyone now.

The one time we had good off peak coverage, during RUIN’s 2 weeks stay, it took Vizunah a massive concerted effort and a brutal Friday morning capping made possible by a French holiday to win one of those weeks, and we crushed them on the second one. Then the “monster” BT superserver came (the strongest server ever in the EU bracket history, although it lasted only 4 weeks) and RUIN disappeared essentially overnight, and from then on our off peak has mostly been provided by ridiculous hours put in by prime time players to try and keep the score up.

Desolation just needs a 70-100 men asian (or russian or whatever) guild providing coverage during the 6-12am period to completely crush any current opposition and make the other 2 servers’ life FAR more miserable than Vizunah is doing right now to us.
Problem is, it looks like none of them are interested for whatever reason.

The only solution to the problem is ANY SERIOUS (not super chilled out) person at Anet, play on SFR/deso in peak our, and feel the destruction of vizunah.

But so far, it’s very indicated that they don’t care. I beg to the one dev answering a lot in these forums (you know I mean you yes, you popped here about a month ago, since then kept answering a lot of topics). Set your character on desolation or SFR. Play at 7-12 pm (would be midday to 5 pm in america). Just do it. Play. Then you will know. Then your mind will be absolutely certain something is broken and needs to be fixed.

Magnetron.5823:

They wont close it, but they wont reply on it too because it doesn’t have positive feedback. I have a question about the skill lag problem and they don’t have an answer.

They don’t reply because they’ve already answered the question time and again in the past, and repeating it for the 100th time isn’t going to change anything. Just look at this forum, every day the same post is made because usage of the search function eludes people. People may as well just C&P the answer from the older threads and save everyone time.

We’ll get an answer when they actually do something about it or figure out how to fix it, save just taking down all of WvW for several days to put up new servers.

Well then how come its called a EU server, why does Anet label them as such, is it for latency? Well then remove the people that don’t play in EU because if they have latency we notice that too and so you create lag.

Remove the labels NA and EU and make them all international servers if u allow all people from over the world anyway.

This is Viz fighting a tower, and we ‘trying’ to defend.

So you guys actually blame Vizunah for playing WvW in WvW instead of playing GvG ?

Lol

No I am saying that Desolation WvW server is empty, showing this pic whats happening 24/7 60 Viz killing our doors, destroying our planet because Co2 rates are extremely high cause we need wood fo the new doors.

graverr.6473:

Rayya.2591:

So what guilds left ?
From Deso: DSD /Bull /FG /GH – went to tier 3 EU
From SFR : RNV / RG /NOE/ OSC /SIN -went to tier 3 EU

RNV / RG /NOE/ OSC /siN/ECL/BOON/VcY/RIOT/FIRE and prolly more that i don’t now of left SFR.That is a minimum of 250-400 WvW players less and probabily double considering their pve base.
I don’t know how many playes SFR actually gained with Anet’s free transfers strategy but the server easily lost more then 500 players in the folowing weeks.

Don’t wanna undust my tinfoil hat but it must have rained gems all over the place

An unusual migration in GW2 history Do you remember a server called Piken ?:)

genowefapigwa.5769:

graverr.6473:

Rayya.2591:

So what guilds left ?
From Deso: DSD /Bull /FG /GH – went to tier 3 EU
From SFR : RNV / RG /NOE/ OSC /SIN -went to tier 3 EU

RNV / RG /NOE/ OSC /siN/ECL/BOON/VcY/RIOT/FIRE and prolly more that i don’t now of left SFR.That is a minimum of 250-400 WvW players less and probabily double considering their pve base.
I don’t know how many playes SFR actually gained with Anet’s free transfers strategy but the server easily lost more then 500 players in the folowing weeks.

Don’t wanna undust my tinfoil hat but it must have rained gems all over the place

An unusual migration in GW2 history Do you remember a server called Piken ?:)

Don’t even remind me of that Pretty hilarious considering Anet didn’t learn /or cared from their 1st experience.You can’t just simply say to people they have a limitd time to transferr for free wherever they want or they will be stuck paying 50+gold to move.It is only logical that the best rated server will be swarmed even by players in doubt,and that was the case of Piken as well like SFR several weeks later and almost completely destroyed both of them.

Magnetron.5823:

This is Viz fighting a tower, and we ‘trying’ to defend.

At least they are polite, they knocked on the door before entering

Our guild has left Deso recently and now we are having great time in T3.

There are two different playstyles, essentially, “WvW” and “GvG”. If you care about server score, you have to care also about “nighttime coverage”, siege machinery, pug participation, and you end in blobbing and sitting behind the uprdaged walls thinking about how successful your server is.

But GvG is not only special event at southern supply camp, it is possible to make the entire game to twist around the roaming warbands looking for each other and for a good fight.

Unfortunately, Deso is totally inappropriate place for such an activity, that’s why lots of organised guilds have left it.

Are servers in lower tiers "less sucessful’? In terms of “server score” yes. In terms of fun and meaningful skirmishes they are not at all.

Bokassa.5396:

Our guild has left Deso recently and now we are having great time in T3.

There are two different playstyles, essentially, “WvW” and “GvG”. If you care about server score, you have to care also about “nighttime coverage”, siege machinery, pug participation, and you end in blobbing and sitting behind the uprdaged walls thinking about how successful your server is.

But GvG is not only special event at southern supply camp, it is possible to make the entire game to twist around the roaming warbands looking for each other and for a good fight.

Unfortunately, Deso is totally inappropriate place for such an activity, that’s why lots of organised guilds have left it.

Are servers in lower tiers "less sucessful’? In terms of “server score” yes. In terms of fun and meaningful skirmishes they are not at all.

I don’t believe such a distinction is healthy or necessary for W3. You’re essentially saying, that either you care about your server’s score, or you just have fun with your guildies and it’s not possible to have both. It is true, that the meta Viz Square has created is a stale one, but that is only because Vizunah has the coverage to implement a game system they want. The meta Viz has created is not the playstyle “ANet wants” or that it’s “the only” game system if you want to have a good score. If there was a server with equal coverage, there could be an actual effect made to change the meta to something most W3 guilds would like it to be. SFR was on its way there, but then there were mass transfers, and Viz was once given the possibility to shape the meta as they wish. So I do agree that it’s hard for big W3 guilds to have meaningful fights and keep their members happy in T1, but it’s not because of the nature of W3, it’s only because Viz Square has the power(=coverage) to determine what kind of W3 servers need to play in T1.

You do realise that most (not all as there are quite a few since-launch homeguilds) of t1-t3 is bandwagoners who want to follow and automash 1…right?

If you want your guild action to be on similar numbers, with no que sizes and competative play without the skill lag, go to any of the lower tier servers on EU or NA. Check the wvw rankings and see which matchups are the most even, which server is the underdog population wise and join them.

There are toomany threads of t1/t2 players QQ’ing about imbalance and skill lag and “BLOB WARS” I am currently in t7 and haven NEVER had as much fun as i am having right now. Sure the coverage could be better but at a certain stage you stop worrying about it and just enjoy the game for what it is.

Open your eyes, the developers have given you a BEAUTIFUL game, and people just complain about it once they all pile into the same servers and get lag. What do you expect?

Timpsu.9324:

I do agree that it’s hard for big W3 guilds to have meaningful fights and keep their members happy in T1, but it’s not because of the nature of W3, it’s only because Viz Square has the power(=coverage) to determine what kind of W3 servers need to play in T1.

You know, it’s Pandora’s box. Once it’s opened, the other sides have to react (=“blob”). It’s living and evolving system and one thing leads to another (sometimes in unpredictable way).

But, actually, there is some sense in such result (no funny GvG skirmishes in T1) . Some people appreciate server score, they feel themselves rewarded to contribute in it, so highest tier is a likely goal for them. On the other side, guilds who transfer from T1 to T3-6 are not motivated by server score and will not accompany dollies, mount 20 arrow carts, lead a pug with commander sign, and, you know, do things like this.

So each person can play the game he likes without spoiling it to the others.

But of course, situation has became much worse with introduced skill delays (which are naturally provoked by big blobs), they killed everything.

Rayya.2591:

So what guilds left ?
From Deso: DSD /Bull /FG /GH – went to tier 3 EU
From SFR : RNV / RG /NOE/ OSC /SIN -went to tier 3 EU

A few more actually.

Bokassa.5396:

There are two different playstyles, essentially, “WvW” and “GvG”.

I have to admit I have a hard time understanding the GvG mindset in GW2. I mean, everyone knows in WvW you find towers and arrow carts, the obvious intent by the designers is for people to use them otherwise they wouldn’t be there in the first place.

Also, what’s the point of fighting a 20 vs 20 deathmatch in the middle of nowhere? You fight the other group, you wipe them… and then wait for them to rez and start another round because nothing actually changed. At least with a keep or tower assault/defense there’s a little bit of tactical variation depending on the specific one you’re attacking, a GvG deathmatch is just a coordinated twitch skill exercise, there’s no use whatsoever for things like logistics. Might as well go playing an FPS if that’s the only purpose.

I can understand criticism like “the way supply is implemented in GW2 makes no sense” (which is unfortunately true), but not wanting to even bother with supply in the first place… I don’t know, to me it sounds like you’re after a completely different game mode. Essentially just PvP, except with 20 men squads instead of 5.

If you are looking for a switch, think NA tier 7 NSP. We could use more of a presence during the off hours of NA primetime.

The patch notes are up. There were several good profession balance tweaks, but some weird ones as well. Overall not drastic changes, except retaliation and confusion finally brought back to spvp levels for WvWvW.

Unfortunately the new buffs to siege weapons are just going to make VS even more powerful in tier 1. After all VS is master of superior siege.

The elementalist nerfs and confusion nerf together with the thief changes might make thieves as common as they were in the worst days of culling, about 1/3 of WvWvW players or more playing that profession. And it seems the 5 signet warrior is going to make a comeback.

I don’t see any changes coming to EU tier #1 for for week or two.

Unless something drastic happens, Visunah will win this week, Desolation will be #2 and SFR will be #3. Elona Reach doesn’t want to rise to tier #1 (not surprising, they know how much “fun” it is to fight against VS). And Jade Sea simply won’t have enough
points.

More of the same again, sighs.

“Thanks” Anet. You really “listen” to your players.

Anet: Why NOT contact those few WvWvW commanders who are still active at SFR and Desolation?

Around 10 major guilds have already left SFR: Vcy, Riot, SIN, RG, BOON, ECL, RNV, OSC and NOE. Did I miss some?

And VotF, Dex, Bull, DSD, FG and GH left Desolation.

Even a blind man can see that EU tier #1 is not working as it should. There is NO balance. Servers are getting trashed and Anet just sits on its bottoms while the community breaks up.