Guild Wars 2

As most of you World vs. World players, I look forward to Friday nights to play what the closest thing to balance in WvW ever gets, I think of strategies of what to do and of the mistakes I made the previous week and overall I have a great time. But on this specific Friday, my WvW reset experience was ruined due to my server being blown out by Sorrow’s Furnace and Eredon Terrace and this will most likely happen for the following weeks as well. We tried all we could but their brute numbers could not be stopped. Tier 8 can become really frustrating for dedicated World vs. World players and I think that if ArenaNet could take the time to read this and maybe rethink the math behind WvW, that would make all the difference. I love WvW, it’s all I do in this game. I am not blaming anyone for this, but it needs to be fixed.
~ Thank you to all the people who took the time to read this.

Well said DaBleuberry! I Agree. It is extremely frustrating at times & takes a lot of the fun out of it. There must be a way to make the pairings a bit more balanced.

Not much you can do to balance t8/9. The wvw population on those servers is the lowest compared to the tiers above it. I would suggest transfering but I am sure you are in a set guild with guild mission or close to that upgrade. The march update will hopefully find a way to bring more players from a PvE server into WvW.

Dableuberry, I agree that Fergusons’s Crossing is outnumbered since I play almost every day and all i see are the other teams killing us in matter in seconds.

At the lower tiers, where there is a disparity of players, is to normalize the max number of players based on the server with the lowest population in the server.

So instead of 200 v 200 v 75 it’d be more like 125 v 125 v 75. Not exactly a pretty solution, but I’m sure you aren’t drawing player interest when they get stomped again, again, and again. Once you start keeping towers and pushing offensives, more people will join, and you can increase your artificial cap.

I totally agree! I just started to get in to WvW and the only reason my realm keeps loosing the battles is because we are GREATLY out numbered, and it is not one team that out numbers us, but BOTH teams. If they balanced the WvW and how the math is done, more people would get in to WvW.

Another T8 QQ thread. With all the threads that have been started, if ANet cared, they’d have made a reply by now. They haven’t. Clearly, they don’t care about the low pop servers.

That math is a bit……funny. I tend to watch the scores across all servers like a sports nut watches the scores on ESPN. lol I also have a friend/co-worker on SoF. I find it interesting that SoF can blow away their competition, yet lose ranking points.

Esprit Dumort.3109:

At the lower tiers, where there is a disparity of players, is to normalize the max number of players based on the server with the lowest population in the server.

So instead of 200 v 200 v 75 it’d be more like 125 v 125 v 75. Not exactly a pretty solution, but I’m sure you aren’t drawing player interest when they get stomped again, again, and again. Once you start keeping towers and pushing offensives, more people will join, and you can increase your artificial cap.

That’s great for the low pop server, but sucks for the other server(s) who can’t get into WvW because the pop cap is limited to the lowest common denominator. It’s a no-win situation. And how would you do it? Overall pop? What about the disparity in times of day? For example, my server has great numbers during North American prime time, but we have almost no coverage during night (and thus we lose in points to the night coverage teams who get 600 point ticks for several hours). In that scenario it would suck for everyone because the pop cap would be so low, or it wouldn’t work because times of day isn’t considered.

This isn’t a QQ thread. There are no tears left to cry in tier 8. I think it’s more of a ‘Please, for the love of God, put us out of our misery’ thread. Merge servers or throw us a lifeboat to get out of this wasteland, kay, ANet?

It seems so simple, just boost the NPC numbers up to balance things. Even if you had 100 NPCs per zone that slowly become more and more concentrated as you loose keeps. The final few locations would have heaps of them helping. Make the Keep Lord a proper champion which takes 5 mins to kill even with a large group. So many options, so little action…

bjchase.3074:

Esprit Dumort.3109:

At the lower tiers, where there is a disparity of players, is to normalize the max number of players based on the server with the lowest population in the server.

So instead of 200 v 200 v 75 it’d be more like 125 v 125 v 75. Not exactly a pretty solution, but I’m sure you aren’t drawing player interest when they get stomped again, again, and again. Once you start keeping towers and pushing offensives, more people will join, and you can increase your artificial cap.

That’s great for the low pop server, but sucks for the other server(s) who can’t get into WvW because the pop cap is limited to the lowest common denominator. It’s a no-win situation. And how would you do it? Overall pop? What about the disparity in times of day? For example, my server has great numbers during North American prime time, but we have almost no coverage during night (and thus we lose in points to the night coverage teams who get 600 point ticks for several hours). In that scenario it would suck for everyone because the pop cap would be so low, or it wouldn’t work because times of day isn’t considered.

Unless ArenaNet can add it only to effect the Tier 8 in NA servers and Tier 9 in European servers to make them balanced without destroying the upper tiers.

I’m tired of being bullied by SF and ET we lose every week and every time we attack something we normally fail. They outnumber us greatly and we always have the outnumbered boon but it gives no help what so ever

Brendar.3548:

Another T8 QQ thread. With all the threads that have been started, if ANet cared, they’d have made a reply by now. They haven’t. Clearly, they don’t care about the low pop servers.

People need to stop posting that these are QQ threads, many of the people who say it are from the higher tiers who have never been stuck in T8. What I am trying to say here is that put yourself in our footsteps, how would you feel being curb stomped week after week? Transfer to FC stay for 2 weeks, then come back here and say that this is a QQ thread. Try seeing others point of view before you post things like this.

The only solution I can see is merging. ArenaNet should just allow the WvW players on lower pop servers to transfer off for free if they are not enjoying their endgame WvW for the long term.

My personal opinion is that the Out-numbered bonuses should actually provide the outnumbered side with an actual advantage on the battlefield. Extra stats and health would be very much appreciated.

You should just transfer somewhere that you can have fun at. Server pride is one thing, but sticking it out when you are not enjoying the game for months on end is just insanity. Those serious about WvW should face the fact that Ferg is dead, and move on, that is if you want to actually enjoy the game.

I know it’s sad, but it’s true.

dank.3680:

You should just transfer somewhere that you can have fun at. Server pride is one thing, but sticking it out when you are not enjoying the game for months on end is just insanity. Those serious about WvW should face the fact that Ferg is dead, and move on, that is if you want to actually enjoy the game.

I know it’s sad, but it’s true.

I cannot leave Ferguson’s Crossing, I have made too many friends here and already have established myself in the server. I know it may seem crazy to you but, I am not leaving.

Well Said!!
I’m losing my passion for WvW, which doesn’t only affect me but it affects other players. A domino affect! If things continue as is, WvW will be dead on our server.
I’m fine being out numbered, but we must be given the tools to deal with those numbers. As things are… No matter what we do we just cannot deal with 3 keeps being attacked at the same time. Also WvW focuses a lot on offense. In any game (sports and what not) when you are out numbered you play it safe or defend more effectively. How can you do those things in WvW? You cannot. WvW is a slap in the face.

ArenaNet needs to address the problem fast.

dank.3680:

You should just transfer somewhere that you can have fun at. Server pride is one thing, but sticking it out when you are not enjoying the game for months on end is just insanity. Those serious about WvW should face the fact that Ferg is dead, and move on, that is if you want to actually enjoy the game.

I know it’s sad, but it’s true.

So my game is missing a feature. lol. What kind of business model is that ArenaNet?

I will never leave Ferg!!

DaBleuberry, if you are established on your server then simply rally your forces behind you. Get as many as you can together and flip a map as quickly as possible. Don’t worry about upgrading keeps/towers but constantly be on the move and switch maps often. Keep the other 2 servers guessing where you will hit next. Eventually you will catch them unprepared and on a more level playing field.

It will take some time but once word gets out that you can be relatively effective using guerilla tactics you will marshal even more. This is really all you can do if you are that outnumbered. Keep in mind at all times…..a group of 30 working in concert via voice communications can take out a group twice that size in the field.

Endeavor to persevere.

I wish you well.

Join me in the Vanguard, pm me ingame for more info

WildBoy.3562:

I’m tired of being bullied by SF and ET we lose every week and every time we attack something we normally fail. They outnumber us greatly and we always have the outnumbered boon but it gives no help what so ever

ET doesn’t outnumber FC as bad as SF does… I’m sure SF can outnumber ET+FC.
Also until 2 weeks ago your server was better than ET. The only real problem at T8 is SF.

DaBleuberry.1780:

dank.3680:

You should just transfer somewhere that you can have fun at. Server pride is one thing, but sticking it out when you are not enjoying the game for months on end is just insanity. Those serious about WvW should face the fact that Ferg is dead, and move on, that is if you want to actually enjoy the game.

I know it’s sad, but it’s true.

I cannot leave Ferguson’s Crossing, I have made too many friends here and already have established myself in the server. I know it may seem crazy to you but, I am not leaving.

Well then, gather them all and move together, go make a real difference on a server where you have a chance for fun. I loved Ferg too, but I realized it was stuck in a hole it will never get out of, so I had to move on with my friends and find somewhere to enjoy the game.. I know it sucks, but it is what it is.

Jeknar.6184:

ET doesn’t outnumber FC as bad as SF does… I’m sure SF can outnumber ET+FC.
Also until 2 weeks ago your server was better than ET. The only real problem at T8 is SF.

Don’t blame us. Blame the broken rating math that keeps us here.

Manoa.5897:

Jeknar.6184:

ET doesn’t outnumber FC as bad as SF does… I’m sure SF can outnumber ET+FC.
Also until 2 weeks ago your server was better than ET. The only real problem at T8 is SF.

Don’t blame us. Blame the broken rating math that keeps us here.

Indeed, i know how bad the glicko deathtrap can be…

The “T1 ready Blackgate” was stuck for 8 weeks in T2 because the ratings never let us go up. And BG clearly was dominating SoR and IoJ/TC.

Also let’s not forget that Devona’s Rest had to win also 8 weeks straight to move out T8.

SF have 7 wins (by large margin) right now… Who knows, maybe you guys magically move this week? “cross fingers”

Absinth.6917:

DaBleuberry, if you are established on your server then simply rally your forces behind you. Get as many as you can together and flip a map as quickly as possible. Don’t worry about upgrading keeps/towers but constantly be on the move and switch maps often. Keep the other 2 servers guessing where you will hit next. Eventually you will catch them unprepared and on a more level playing field.

It will take some time but once word gets out that you can be relatively effective using guerilla tactics you will marshal even more. This is really all you can do if you are that outnumbered. Keep in mind at all times…..a group of 30 working in concert via voice communications can take out a group twice that size in the field.

Endeavor to persevere.

I wish you well.

I think I may try this. Thank you so much for this idea!

Glicko is dumb, and broken. SF would have to 695ppt the entire week if they are to move up to T7, or HoD has a real bad week, and never has more than 5ppt.

Yo Anet? Kindly slice FC in half and give SF and ET a slice each. kthx

Based Quag bless the newly-forged servers of Eredon Crossing and Ferguson’s Furnace.

I used to love WvW. Anet is becoming Blizzard…pve and mediocre events like the karka fail\wintersday etc only keeps customers in this game for so long …its the WvW players that will keep this game alive..remember that ok

Please for once listen to us

The way the maps are constructed is the problem. They are structured in such a way that winning is (to a very large degree) a numbers game. They demand a balanced number of participants to be competitive.

I seriously doubt that when Anet designed them, they tested them with grossly unbalanced numbers. And yet that is what we continue to see week after week in the SF/ET/FC match up.

Maybe Anet is just waiting for us to consolidate servers? Maybe they are shaking there heads at how stupid we are to keep punishing ourselves? This goes for all three of us severs.

Dogsmack.4910:

I used to love WvW. Anet is becoming Blizzard…pve and mediocre events like the karka fail\wintersday etc only keeps customers in this game for so long …its the WvW players that will keep this game alive..remember that ok

Please for once listen to us

yeah, I’ve noticed a large burn out of players

hopefully this March update fixes the issue because, if not, another game will come along and arenanet will lose a lot of customer base (free game or not – there will be expansions and players buying from the gem store) to another franchise

Jeknar.6184:

WildBoy.3562:

I’m tired of being bullied by SF and ET we lose every week and every time we attack something we normally fail. They outnumber us greatly and we always have the outnumbered boon but it gives no help what so ever

ET doesn’t outnumber FC as bad as SF does… I’m sure SF can outnumber ET+FC.
Also until 2 weeks ago your server was better than ET. The only real problem at T8 is SF.

^ SF has the WvW numbers to cover all the maps lol..

Venn.7623:

Jeknar.6184:

WildBoy.3562:

I’m tired of being bullied by SF and ET we lose every week and every time we attack something we normally fail. They outnumber us greatly and we always have the outnumbered boon but it gives no help what so ever

ET doesn’t outnumber FC as bad as SF does… I’m sure SF can outnumber ET+FC.
Also until 2 weeks ago your server was better than ET. The only real problem at T8 is SF.

^ SF has the WvW numbers to cover all the maps lol..

Actually, we don’t always have two active zergs in prime time. Often just one, occasionally none. Almost never three. That kind of activity is reserved for resets, and it’s not just us.

Jeknar.6184:

Also let’s not forget that Devona’s Rest had to win also 8 weeks straight to move out T8.

SF have 7 wins (by large margin) right now… Who knows, maybe you guys magically move this week? “cross fingers”

Anyone have any magic pixie dust laying around?? ’Cause given our evolution history, a rise to T7 looking mighty unlikely without some sort of magical intervention.

Scumbag Mawile.6384:

Venn.7623:

Jeknar.6184:

WildBoy.3562:

I’m tired of being bullied by SF and ET we lose every week and every time we attack something we normally fail. They outnumber us greatly and we always have the outnumbered boon but it gives no help what so ever

ET doesn’t outnumber FC as bad as SF does… I’m sure SF can outnumber ET+FC.
Also until 2 weeks ago your server was better than ET. The only real problem at T8 is SF.

^ SF has the WvW numbers to cover all the maps lol..

Actually, we don’t always have two active zergs in prime time. Often just one, occasionally none. Almost never three. That kind of activity is reserved for resets, and it’s not just us.

Gotta agree… SF can’t cover all maps at once during the week… They can cover around 2 (sometimes 3) if they aren’t moving in a massive zerg ball (covering only 1 map).

Venn.7623:

SF has the WvW numbers to cover all the maps lol..

Bwahahaaha! Yeah, um…no. If that were truly the case, the maps would be painted green all of the time. And that is most certainly not the case.

Just saw the score and i thought “wtf”
And SF is loosing points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And some ppl sayin “is not numbers, we r pros” lol
Anet give u these options:
1. Transfer
2. Wait for guilds transfer to your server and pve all the week :S

Points scored by holding/taking objectives should be modified by how many people you have on a particular map at the point timer tick. The point timer that is in game should be removed and the timer should be random with a given number of ticks in a 24 hour period but those ticks do not occur every hour on the hour. For example at 8am server time the score is checked on how many objectives a server owns versus how many people currently present on the map. The next hour the points might not be allocated until 9:15 server time, next at 10:21. As long as the points are updated once every 60 minute period. This randomization is so servers do not capture a pile of objectives then suddenly logout so they can get a bigger score.

So all that has to be done then is to figure out a modifier using the populations of all 3 servers in a map. Server A has 50 people, Server B, 100, Server C 150. For any specific objective in that map Server B would score normal points, Server A, Double and Server C 1/2 of the normal point distribution. Holding assets therefore becomes a priority versus capping an asset and moving on to the next without defending/upgrading the captured asset. Night shifts on servers with low coverage would still be able to score points by holding onto objectives even if they cannot hold them all against a larger server as they will be making more points per objctive then the large server would be.

Plus in the end the point spread should be tighter and could very well be determined by how many Dolyaks/Sentries each time capped.

ErlendR.6107:

Just saw the score and i thought “wtf”
And SF is loosing points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Loosing points (or staying flat) as our “reward” for curbstomping is becoming the new normal for us.

The week before last (2/22-3/1), we won by 126K points, but lost -51.919 rating. Even though we won by a significant margin, we nearly lost the most amount of points out of any NA server (NSP slightly edged us out at -52.663 when they lost their match). Other servers who won by similar margins (or by smaller margins) gained points.

Last week, we won by 163K points, but lost -0.122 rating. Other servers who won by similar margins gained a significant amount of rating.

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. How much more do we have to curbstomp to get anywhere??

Manoa.5897:

ErlendR.6107:

Just saw the score and i thought “wtf”
And SF is loosing points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Loosing points (or staying flat) as our “reward” for curbstomping is becoming the new normal for us.

The week before last (2/22-3/1), we won by 126K points, but lost -51.919 rating. Even though we won by a significant margin, we nearly lost the most amount of points out of any NA server (NSP slightly edged us out at -52.663 when they lost their match). Other servers who won by similar margins (or by smaller margins) gained points.

Last week, we won by 163K points, but lost -0.122 rating. Other servers who won by similar margins gained a significant amount of rating.

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. How much more do we have to curbstomp to get anywhere??

Maybe ArenaNet made the math different for T8.

I agree the math really does need to change. I cant see how servers can win and loose points. Talk about the perfect way to lock a tier. I know they want the fights to be balanced, but that is silly.

Just looking at the matchup web site, Ive seen 1st place teams loose points and second place gain points.

On the flip side, even if they did, WvW is a numbers game. From what you say in this post FC has the lowest population in the lowest bracket. Does not sound good for any match up you will ever get. No amount of math fixing with correct that issue.

I suppose you can hold out hope that the things they say they are adding in March to WvW will bring people in. Of course that will happen on every server so Im not sure much will change.

hey lableuberry, I have been trying to rally our wvw for the past week. the problem is not the morale, its the lack of ppl

You know what makes me want to quit on this issue? Its that if you look through these WvW threads you’ll see a Dev as posted on nearly every weekly higher tier thread, but on T8 where we are having trouble with numbers, ratings and over all not having fun with what we all love is being ignored. Does that sound fair? No no it doesn’t. I am soon going to stop playing WvW until the math gets fixed, SF outnumbers ET and FC put together most days, and it just isn’t fun, I am fine with being outnumbered, I am used to it by now, but I know SF deserves a match up that will keep them having fun, give them a challenge, and get them out out of FC/ET’s hair. Fix WvW Anet for the good of the game fix the math, this system isn’t working any longer.

BlUeMoNsTeR.7145:

You know what makes me want to quit on this issue? Its that if you look through these WvW threads you’ll see a Dev as posted on nearly every weekly higher tier thread, but on T8 where we are having trouble with numbers, ratings and over all not having fun with what we all love is being ignored. Does that sound fair? No no it doesn’t. I am soon going to stop playing WvW until the math gets fixed, SF outnumbers ET and FC put together most days, and it just isn’t fun, I am fine with being outnumbered, I am used to it by now, but I know SF deserves a match up that will keep them having fun, give them a challenge, and get them out out of FC/ET’s hair. Fix WvW Anet for the good of the game fix the math, this system isn’t working any longer.

We’ve been working too hard to give up now!

I would pay the 40 gold or $20 to transfer to another wvw server. Other online games cost around $15 per month which can cost you $180 per year. For the low cost of $20 you can essentially fix the problem of not enjoying wvw. Don’t be the last rat off a sinking ship.

totally agree i mean me and my guild had to farm 21gold and switch server because we are dedicated wvwer’s arenanet does not think about the wvw dedicated guilds , when they are stuck on a server with no other wvwers around

I think Anet just needs to due a reset. Start the tiering over again. But this time take the data of WvW population and pair up the servers. We wouldn’t need to see TC v ET v FC, we already know how that would end.

Take the data on when people are on and re-seed the tiers. Play for a month and then finalize the results, seed and go from there. But do it based on your WvW queue data. The math you have is all messed up now. You should have done this right after you stopped free transfers. Please do this after you fix culling and add the WvW update.

I think Witless may be on to something with using analytics to match servers of equal size and equal time zones; although I think implementing by time would add a level of complexity that might be too difficult.

I can’t remember…was it WoW that had something like “battlegroups”, where a the battlegrounds were server-neutral…you fought for one side or the other; but Team A could be from half a dozen servers, and so could Team B.

I think something similar would end up load balancing the best. You would have to be able to join in as a guild, or have a way to enter and join your guild; there would have to be tweaks to party/raid/zerg management; and I’m not sure how to manage things like big raiding guilds because that level of data architecture is above my pay grade; but it seems to me that creating server-agnostic battlegrounds; such that when you go into WvW, you could be playing with people from any of the servers, with a pop cap that opens another instance.

It seems to me, and this is off the top of my head; that something like that would allow the lower tier folks who, because of rank, have never even seen an experience like those regularly enjoyed by the people on the top tiers, experience the game the way the game was designed.

BlUeMoNsTeR.7145:

You know what makes me want to quit on this issue? Its that if you look through these WvW threads you’ll see a Dev as posted on nearly every weekly higher tier thread, but on T8 where we are having trouble with numbers, ratings and over all not having fun with what we all love is being ignored. Does that sound fair? No no it doesn’t. I am soon going to stop playing WvW until the math gets fixed, SF outnumbers ET and FC put together most days, and it just isn’t fun, I am fine with being outnumbered, I am used to it by now, but I know SF deserves a match up that will keep them having fun, give them a challenge, and get them out out of FC/ET’s hair. Fix WvW Anet for the good of the game fix the math, this system isn’t working any longer.

those arent dev posts, theyre CC posts telling people to stop flaming
the 2 devs post about once a month