Guild Wars 2

We did not exploit at all. This is a clean duo cap of QL using no siege and just two thieves. I didn’t record the video but I am the second thief inside. Video credits go out to my buddy Chewy.
~Enjoy

Server – Tarnished Coast
Guild – Love And Friendship [Love]

URMAHGERD stealth is op! Just kidding.

Haha well this certainly isn’t an exploit, nice work!

Professor Sensei.2941:

We did not exploit at all.

Maladon.5760:

Professor Sensei.2941:

We did not exploit at all.

I don’t understand. Why did you quote that.

Scouting for thieves will be way more of a pain than scouting for mesmers…
Great video though, how is it that you kept that field up the whole time? Was it your friend besides you?

Causic.3798:

Scouting for thieves will be way more of a pain than scouting for mesmers…
Great video though, how is it that you kept that field up the whole time? Was it your friend besides you?

That was just a visual glitch of an enemy field on the other side of the door

Posting here because I see an exploit.

I’m curious how long it takes you to figure it out after saying this; because it looks like what was done was not accidental.

Hint: Review the difference between “exploiting” and “hacking”. I would typically count rendering abuse of repeated stealths [with zergs on screen] as an exploit [if I felt it were really overt], but I did not in this case.

Master Fuhon.1068:

Posting here because I see an exploit.

I’m curious how long it takes you to figure it out after saying this; because it looks like what was done was not accidental.

Hint: Review the difference between “exploiting” and “hacking”. I would typically count rendering abuse of repeated stealths [with zergs on screen] as an exploit [if I felt it were really overt], but I did not in this case.

Are you kidding me? You’re saying we were abusing culling? All we did was follow a zerg into a tower and hide in it using stealth. Waited for lord buff to wear off then cap. I don’t see an exploit of any nature here other than zergs being zergish and running out the moment something is theirs.

The only abuse in this vid is the bad AI going in numb mode for most of the fight, seen that happen more often and obviously makes killing the lord a lot easier though i doubt they intended that ^^

LionZero.3479:

The only abuse in this vid is the bad AI going in numb mode for most of the fight, seen that happen more often and obviously makes killing the lord a lot easier though i doubt they intended that ^^

Most of the lords freeze up for some reason. I’ve done this dozen of times without it happening though and it doesn’t really affect us that much. With groups of 3-5 we can drop the lord is about 10-20 seconds easy.

Edited.
@ Professor Sensei.2941
Thanks for clearing that up, makes sense

I specifically said I wasn’t counting what was done with culling [self-aware or not].

I’m not going to quote myself or repeat it again, because that would be an absurd requirement of human conversation via text. If you want to put words in my mouth, and intentionally misinterpret what I said [in public] in the hope that others misinterpret it, you should know that your avatars stealth capabilities do nothing to cover the transparency of your intention.

Remember for a moment, what your real world ‘powers’ truly are. I’m sure your in-game ones are better than mine, and possibly even better than that zergs. But, I’m also not the only one here you are communicating to.

Edit: LionZero is correct. Guild Lord intentionally pulled to a spot where he obstructs and stops attacking.

Master Fuhon.1068:

Edit: LionZero is correct. Guild Lord intentionally pulled to a spot where he obstructs and stops attacking.

What video were you watching?

I saw a bunch of NPCs run to attack hostile players and NPCs, and then choose to attack the NPCs instead of the players. I didn’t see any trickery, just two swarms running into each other.

Why don’t you re-watch it a few times just so it sinks in how completely silly you sound.

Lesson here? Patience.

Talented pair. Glad you’re on my side

Jayne.9251:

Lesson here? Patience.

Talented pair. Glad you’re on my side

Thanks, you have no idea how many times we’ve been called exploiters.

Professor Sensei.2941:

Jayne.9251:

Lesson here? Patience.

Talented pair. Glad you’re on my side

Thanks, you have no idea how many times we’ve been called exploiters.

I know hon. I message Zu every time I see someone post that. It’s pretty unfair to do so. Words can only explain so much. Glad you did the video. Hopefully this will finally put it to rest.

:)

Which video was I watching? The one where the cameraman (from 9:34 to 9:38) takes a pause during a DPS race fight to check whether the duo have glitched the Lord properly with their NPC popping/corner kiting strategy.

Oh I see, it’s Tarnished Coast coming in to defend this now. Now your guild and server reputations can be more like your shoreline. With the way this attack ‘strategy’ was initiated and then executed by these two players, there was 0% chance of it working without a ‘fortunate’ glitch.

PS: Signet of Shadows has a ranged AoE blind on it, which the cameraman doesn’t use. Professor Sensei has his self heal off cooldown and doesn’t use it as well, which he could have used to not nearly wipe at the end; and he could have triggered a backstab off of it to not waste as much time. Then again, when you expect something not to be attacking you and you glitch for a living, you don’t take the same precautions as everyone else would.

PSS: I said I wasn’t making this exploit talk about the culling, but because of the last set of comments… do you think this video demonstrates stealth cooldowns used appropriately for when the effect is supposed to wear off based on tooltips? Or does it more accurately demonstrate living on the edge with an expectation that enemies aren’t seeing you on their screen?

@Master Fuhon
I don’t understand you at all. We didn’t try and glitch the lord. We can handle him either way. We were hiding near the door. Most people dont turn around and if they do they aren’t going to see us on an offhand glance because of stealth. If someone were to pay attention they would notice the door rocking back and forth over and over and swords never go away. We didn’t abuse any glitch.

As for not casting SoS most every player in the game grabs it for the +25% movement speed. Only in RARE occasions do I find casting a blind to be worth losing my speed. Never do I use it on another player because all they have to do is swing once in the air and its gone.

Master Fuhon.1068:

Which video was I watching? The one where the cameraman (from 9:34 to 9:38) takes a pause during a DPS race fight to check whether the duo have glitched the Lord properly with their NPC popping/corner kiting strategy.

Oh I see, it’s Tarnished Coast coming in to defend this now. Now your guild and server reputations can be more like your shoreline. With the way this attack ‘strategy’ was initiated and then executed by these two players, there was 0% chance of it working without a ‘fortunate’ glitch.

PS: Signet of Shadows has a ranged AoE blind on it, which the cameraman doesn’t use. Professor Sensei has his self heal off cooldown and doesn’t use it as well, which he could have used to not nearly wipe at the end; and he could have triggered a backstab off of it to not waste as much time. Then again, when you expect something not to be attacking you and you glitch for a living, you don’t take the same precautions as everyone else would.

PSS: I said I wasn’t making this exploit talk about the culling, but because of the last set of comments… do you think this video demonstrates stealth cooldowns used appropriately for when the effect is supposed to wear off based on tooltips? Or does it more accurately demonstrate living on the edge with an expectation that enemies aren’t seeing you on their screen?

No point in arguing with you — you’re going to see what you want to see regardless of reality.

For the record I don’t know who anyone in that video is other than Meega Kweesta (who isn’t even there), and my guild has 8 people in it, four of which are active. It has nothing to do with what server I’m on or what server I’m not on, and everything to do with being sick of people crying about exploits every other post (and even more so when thieves are involved).

You can continue playing the fool though, not my problem. Later.

What’s the purpose of this video?

I have capped Keeps with 2-3 players, it’s nothing special. :S

There have been cries of “hacking! exploit!” about these two in our various match threads. I think Sensei finally got tired of it and showed how it was done. Legitimately and without exploits.

Ah okay. There’s no match up thread?

Anyway well done I guess.

Shouldn’t be possible, there were plenty of opportunities for you two to get caught in the act. Due to the current system these types of shenanigans happen though. CnD shouldn’t fire on objects either =/

I’m waiting for the obvious, Two thieves abuse culling to ninja a keep, news at 11 meme though.

We didn’t abuse culling though. We just hid in the keep and killed anyone who stayed in. They could have EASILY called out to their server “Hey there are people still inside of QL killing people. Mind lending a hand so they don’t take the tower?” but they didn’t. Like I said if we abused anything its betting on how brainless zergs are.

Ah finally I am off of work to comment on my video. Yes it was I who am the little Asura with Professor Sensei.

@Jayne and @Kerithlan
I want to thank you for your praise towards us.

@Master Fuhon I do not understand in what way we were “glitching” the Guild Lord. Are you referring to my habit of strafing left and right what i attack with my SB?

Nice work!
Wouldn’t have happened if the other server didn’t just Zerg through their conquest not giving 2 kittens about the tower and for that reason they deserved to lose it like this.

bradderzh.2378:

Nice work!
Wouldn’t have happened if the other server didn’t just Zerg through their conquest not giving 2 kittens about the tower and for that reason they deserved to lose it like this.

You have no idea how many towers we cap this way. We literally stay in towers and watch the map for White/Orange swords to find out next target. We had a run once were we got seven towers back to back to back doing this.

I remember you guys taking LG last night. As nice as it is for everyone to make fun of SBI for this, let me note that the fun thing was standing by and letting this happen. I remember map chat at that moment when we were taking our SBI garrison back and we saw you two in the tower.

Random #1: “There are two thieves taking LG! Stop them!” (You hadnt gotten to Lord’s room at this point)
Commander: “Nah, we lose our keep every other ten minutes, let’s take it first.”
Random #2: “This is actually pretty amusing.” (Talking about the two Thieves in QL)
Random #3: “I could run in and screw with them, but I think I’ll stand here and watch instead of interfering.”
Me: “We’ll just take it back after they take it, let them have some fun.” (Me standing at the gate of LG watching you guys)

When you’re as far behind in points as we are, and have something like 20 people in any given map at a time, you don’t mind this sort of thing as much. Looks like you guys had some fun, so good on you.

Professor Sensei.2941:

Thanks, you have no idea how many times we’ve been called exploiters.

You can’t fault people for having legitimate concerns during a period in the game’s time when C&Ding off keep / tower walls is something that has become rampant. I would rather play on a server that questions and clarifies occurrences like that rather than ignore them merely because it benefits us, while at the same time still getting out the pitchforks at even the slightest possibility of opposing servers using similar exploits.

In addition, announcing repeated two-person tower captures in Team chat and going “Thief trade secret lol” as a response on how it’s done doesn’t really look too good. C&Ding off Siege, NPCS and the gates is fine and considered a perfectly legitimate and well-known tactic; you both could have saved yourself a lot of trouble and annoyance being upfront about what you were doing. It wouldn’t have taken away from the accomplishment and disarmed the exploit suspicions for good.

Kibbles.9813:

Professor Sensei.2941:

Thanks, you have no idea how many times we’ve been called exploiters.

You can’t fault people for having legitimate concerns during a period in the game’s time when C&Ding off keep / tower walls is something that has become rampant. I would rather play on a server that questions and clarifies occurrences like that rather than ignore them merely because it benefits us, while at the same time still getting out the pitchforks at even the slightest possibility of opposing servers using similar exploits.

In addition, announcing repeated two-person tower captures in Team chat and going “Thief trade secret lol” as a response on how it’s done doesn’t really look too good. C&Ding off Siege, NPCS and the gates is fine and considered a perfectly legitimate and well-known tactic; you both could have saved yourself a lot of trouble and annoyance being upfront about what you were doing. It wouldn’t have taken away from the accomplishment and disarmed the exploit suspicions for good.

But then what would people have to complain about in regards to us thieves? They hate us for our stealth, so if we use it, we’re exploiting.

And more people quit Gw2 because of culling and thieves………….

Easy mode is playing a thief in WvW. It’s like playing a single player game on easy difficulty.

Godmoney.2048:

And more people quit Gw2 because of culling and thieves………….

Easy mode is playing a thief in WvW. It’s like playing a single player game on easy difficulty.

Go play a thief in PvE then talk.

I’m starting to wonder whether you two can even tell the truth. I picked arguments that were kind of sketchy that I figure it would have been easy for honesty to straight up beat. Honesty was literally the path of least resistance towards winning and regaining your lost credibility; if this particular situation had been a more isolated accident. I got multiple manipulation attempts instead, indicating there is a bad underlying pattern here.

Chewy, are you calling that little shuffle you were doing in that video “strafing” against a Rifle? You were standing around observing the attack state of the Champion and hardly moving at all. Your cohort made the pull with his Thieves Guild placed on a ramp corner, before dodging twice around the other side of that corner. Do you guys beat high damage PBAoE Champions all the time with team melee glass cannon builds? What better way is there to help an NPC make a decision to blow you up, than for both of you to step into melee range.

Given the circumstances, the mob was looking right at you, and you picked that exact moment to stand even more still. Why would you claim that a little sideways shuffling would be capable of repositioning a mob, dodging auto-seeking attacks, or breaking it’s AI? Not like say… a trick pull, using geometry obstructions, and a half-dozen spawned NPCs thrown out with no concern for helping them stay alive. It was as if they were supposed to die to trigger more aggro resets. Since I actually do have a thief, I find what you did similar to how I can stealth in PvE, and then beat on a mob during the temporary walk-back to it’s original position. That’s an AI mechanic documented and reported since before release, but it’s also something that produces a longer fight than what you did.

Were you trying to steer the conversation onto a wild goose chase, towards mechanics that no one would consider exploitative? You have ‘truth’ on your side and you choose to straw man? LionZero had no problem talking about how the AI goes numb in this game, because there’s no guilt or history of constant exploitation compelling him to lie out of reflex or self-preservation. I see AI bugs similar to this in PvE land, like the Champion Svanir guys, that literally have no impact on whether something would have died (I don’t do dungeons often because they are filled with exploiters). But what I saw here is players who did the exact opposite of using an NPC PvE tanking strategy. You two specifically did things that lessened the survival and DPS of your NPC fodder, and you even scoff at the idea of protecting them with a powerful AoE blind. Blind just blocks one attack, which when used intelligently, blocks an attack or crowd control that will cost you more damage than your self heal gives.

Your strategy in clearing the Tower NPCs was terrible from a gameplay mechanics standpoint, similar to what I see out of new players in beginner zones who need to constantly be rezzed from downed state. But if you look at that fight from the perspective of causing AI glitches, this was expert level. What is lower risk than a mob that doesn’t attack? Everyone can fearlessly wail on it with their highest DPS rotations.

@Master Fuhon

I’m still not following how we purposely glitched the tower lord? But if you are absolutely set on saying we glitched the AI on purpose then I guess I won’t press the matter any further.

@Tripp

I agree 100%

No cheating here at all. Although this is all the more reason culling needs to be fixed quickly.

Professor Sensei.2941:

Godmoney.2048:

And more people quit Gw2 because of culling and thieves………….

Easy mode is playing a thief in WvW. It’s like playing a single player game on easy difficulty.

Go play a thief in PvE then talk.

Actually, go and play in WvW then talk. The only people that truly complain about thieves have never played one for a significant amount of time in WvW. When I get bored of being indestructible on my Guardian, I play my thief to remind me that you can actually die when you make a mistake.

GJ on the tower cap btw. Next challenge: Two man keep take (I suggest bay, it’s easier)

Elthurien.8356:

Professor Sensei.2941:

Godmoney.2048:

And more people quit Gw2 because of culling and thieves………….

Easy mode is playing a thief in WvW. It’s like playing a single player game on easy difficulty.

Go play a thief in PvE then talk.

Actually, go and play in WvW then talk. The only people that truly complain about thieves have never played one for a significant amount of time in WvW. When I get bored of being indestructible on my Guardian, I play my thief to remind me that you can actually die when you make a mistake.

GJ on the tower cap btw. Next challenge: Two man keep take (I suggest bay, it’s easier)

I’d LOVE them to spend time on the BLs, but sadly their first love is EB. I think they’d wreak havoc on the BLs tho.

Jayne.9251:

Elthurien.8356:

Professor Sensei.2941:

Godmoney.2048:

And more people quit Gw2 because of culling and thieves.............

Easy mode is playing a thief in WvW. It’s like playing a single player game on easy difficulty.

Go play a thief in PvE then talk.

Actually, go and play in WvW then talk. The only people that truly complain about thieves have never played one for a significant amount of time in WvW. When I get bored of being indestructible on my Guardian, I play my thief to remind me that you can actually die when you make a mistake.

GJ on the tower cap btw. Next challenge: Two man keep take (I suggest bay, it’s easier)

I’d LOVE them to spend time on the BLs, but sadly their first love is EB. I think they’d wreak havoc on the BLs tho.

It’s definitely achievable. Myself and two others stole Bay keep and briar from SBI a couple of nights ago. We did it the old fashioned way with catapults but there were still two defenders inside.

Tried it against TC last night on valley keep but a Thief/DDEle combo kept us from getting through. That was when we decided to have a little stand off in pangloss for lulz.

I can almost see the next patch notes.. “Cloak and Dagger now only grants the stealth element when used on Enemy Players and NPC’s.”

You made the video Chewbacca. There was obviously a pro-cheating agenda behind producing and publicizing a propaganda piece like this. So why is everything you say steering the conversation towards something else; when we could be openly discussing the benefits of living in a world of naturalistic right?

Why are we now playing friendly server meet-and-greet, when you posted this video to mock people and hold it over them. Where are the balls you just had when you straight-up, no-exploiting, skillfully-legit showed that zerg who was boss by manipulating mechanics? Am I dealing with that person, or am just I dealing with someone who gets stumped by the dual-function flexibility of Signet of Shadows? (What kind of person gets to 80 on a glass cannon without knowing the power of AoE blind, anyway?)

I stated that my specific appearance into this thread was designed to be beaten in a very specific way. I had to say it because you didn’t come across to me as a particularly adept game player. A really easy game was designed for you to be able to win; if you could just follow the simple pattern of establishing credibility that any normal person would be able to follow. I’ve told you about how the solution was honesty related. Do you walk the straight path to get the cookie, or do try to walk into the electic fence again? It’s unfortunate, but it looks like we are bringing out more losers than winners right now.

This has become about your flawed need to achieve via exploitation; instead of reporting it in a way that it would become more beneficial to everyone. It’s pretty clear that you have the answers and choose not to be forthcoming with any of them. You two are among the most qualified to submit the bug/exploit report about triggering the AI to go numb. We’re just waiting on you now, but apparently you haven’t had enough fill of the ‘rewards’ of exploiting…

People who learn to cheat AI have a decision to make about whether they want to emulate the behavior, or whether they truly comprehend the consequences of it proliferating. Decisions like that are made very early on, which is why developed dark and light side jedi powers look so different from each other. Someone who chooses to do it in one place, will be doing it in the other places they go to out of habit. They will also hang around with others who have this similarity in common, so that together they can breed further exploitation.

In the meantime, I can think up more questions for you to dodge answering: What other ongoing schemes are you covering up? Have you been doing stuff like this in dungeons; or is it more about mass human injury than it is about positive rewards? Do you have a history of cheating that spans other games? Are you even cheating people on the time frame of which you claim to be ‘working’?

Master Fuhon.1068:

Why are we now playing friendly server meet-and-greet, when you posted this video to mock people and hold it over them.

Oh dear. I think we’re getting to the heart of his protests here.

I don’t believe he actually did this, he simply posted the video because there’s been question of how they did it, but since you don’t seem to want to hear any other viewpoint but your own, I’ll just give up trying. lol.

Master Fuhon.1068:

I’m starting to wonder whether you two can even tell the truth. I picked arguments that were kind of sketchy that I figure it would have been easy for honesty to straight up beat. Honesty was literally the path of least resistance towards winning and regaining your lost credibility; if this particular situation had been a more isolated accident. I got multiple manipulation attempts instead, indicating there is a bad underlying pattern here.

Chewy, are you calling that little shuffle you were doing in that video “strafing” against a Rifle? You were standing around observing the attack state of the Champion and hardly moving at all. Your cohort made the pull with his Thieves Guild placed on a ramp corner, before dodging twice around the other side of that corner. Do you guys beat high damage PBAoE Champions all the time with team melee glass cannon builds? What better way is there to help an NPC make a decision to blow you up, than for both of you to step into melee range.

Given the circumstances, the mob was looking right at you, and you picked that exact moment to stand even more still. Why would you claim that a little sideways shuffling would be capable of repositioning a mob, dodging auto-seeking attacks, or breaking it’s AI? Not like say… a trick pull, using geometry obstructions, and a half-dozen spawned NPCs thrown out with no concern for helping them stay alive. It was as if they were supposed to die to trigger more aggro resets. Since I actually do have a thief, I find what you did similar to how I can stealth in PvE, and then beat on a mob during the temporary walk-back to it’s original position. That’s an AI mechanic documented and reported since before release, but it’s also something that produces a longer fight than what you did.

Were you trying to steer the conversation onto a wild goose chase, towards mechanics that no one would consider exploitative? You have ‘truth’ on your side and you choose to straw man? LionZero had no problem talking about how the AI goes numb in this game, because there’s no guilt or history of constant exploitation compelling him to lie out of reflex or self-preservation. I see AI bugs similar to this in PvE land, like the Champion Svanir guys, that literally have no impact on whether something would have died (I don’t do dungeons often because they are filled with exploiters). But what I saw here is players who did the exact opposite of using an NPC PvE tanking strategy. You two specifically did things that lessened the survival and DPS of your NPC fodder, and you even scoff at the idea of protecting them with a powerful AoE blind. Blind just blocks one attack, which when used intelligently, blocks an attack or crowd control that will cost you more damage than your self heal gives.

Your strategy in clearing the Tower NPCs was terrible from a gameplay mechanics standpoint, similar to what I see out of new players in beginner zones who need to constantly be rezzed from downed state. But if you look at that fight from the perspective of causing AI glitches, this was expert level. What is lower risk than a mob that doesn’t attack? Everyone can fearlessly wail on it with their highest DPS rotations.

…I can’t follow this guy’s logic.

I mean, summon npc is there to be your meat shield and dps. Why would the caster, in this case two thief, try and save the npc when their whole purpose is to dps, grab aggro, and die? That’s like saying ele are exploiting because they did nothing to save their fire/air/water/earth elements…

@This whole kitten one sided debate about us abusing the lords AI

We didn’t. I haven’t honestly re-watched this video to watch for that part but I have seen him do some crazy kitten in the past. We even had a time at Anz where a ele came to stop us, we turned on the ele and killed them, then the lord ran over to res the ele. Obviously this gave us free reign to apply massive DPS to him and drop with ease.

The point is we didn’t abuse any AI issue. We precast Thieves Guild on the way up the ramp so we don’t get melted the moment we enter the fight. Ambush trap is also applied every time it is up so the pocket thieves soak up damage. When it’s just the lord all we need to do is take turns throwing down the Ambush Trap and using CnD so the lord turns his attention to the NPCs we spawn.

^He beat me to it.
@Master Fuhon
Oh so you’re getting on about Thieves Guild and Ambush for 3 more thieves to attack… I don’t want to be focused by all the enemy NPCs so I use my own to lessen the damage. Is there something wrong with this? Or am I being inhumane towards them?

Just re-watched the fight. I didn’t see anything wrong with the fight. We grouped the NPCs to cluster bomb them. The lord wasn’t even hooked on any wall he just stopped fighting.

Stealth is broken, still waiting for a fix. The stealth debuff should last 5 seconds and you shouldn’t be able to refresh stealth without getting the debuff, just lame as that.

Guys he’s going to see what he wants to see, it’s as simple as that. Don’t bother arguing with him, it’ll just result in infractions. Everyone in this topic sees the same video except for him, who sees a different one. It is what it is.

I believe that he believes he sees what he thinks he sees. That’s enough reason not to belittle him or argue or whatever.

Kerithlan.1659:

Guys he’s going to see what he wants to see, it’s as simple as that. Don’t bother arguing with him, it’ll just result in infractions. Everyone in this topic sees the same video except for him, who sees a different one. It is what it is.

I believe that he believes he sees what he thinks he sees. That’s enough reason not to belittle him or argue or whatever.

wait…wait……I think I see what he thinks I think I saw him see.

Stealth by invisibility: Worst game mechanic to ever be implemented in PvP games.

GJ on your ezmoding conquest though I guess.

These are all answers to things that have been said in this thread. I am putting them here to demonstrate facts about the deviation from the original topic after I pressed the conversation towards being about exploits visible in this video. These are tangents of the topic, that otherwise could seem non-related, but have instead become central themes of player deception.

To simply call me “closed-minded”, is literally, one of the poorest insults you could construct about me. Advanced education doesn’t get into a closed mind. In an open mind, it becomes a roomate and disposes of the garbage for you. That is what is being done here with nearly everything you people say. My mind is unlocked, overflowing, and constantly reorganizing. This is no permanent home for garbage.

If you want to make this a discussion about ‘reality’, then you should be aware that “those who live in video game houses shouldn’t throw feeble electronic stones at avatars”. I am committing this as an intentional logical fallacy on top of the old cliche. This doesn’t win any argument by itself; but it should give you a hint about how much expertise gets held back from being used against you an average run-in of this sort. I can not-so-humbly say, you know nothing about reality and far less about it than me. In your version of reality, your mistakes are unconcious and not belonging to you. You have been projecting them upon me and I have been aware of it.

The word “illogical” is a perjorative term used to indicate that the user [of the term] lacks the competence to diagnose what was done in a specific logical chain. In actuallity, everything has a logical pattern to it that can be followed. Everything. Where things vary are on the concepts of empathy and rationality; two things you guys aren’t particularly good at. But, the more unqualified you are to comprehend logic, the more ‘errors in logic’ you will imagine existing out in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequential_logic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinational_logic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asynchronous_logic_
www.logic-that-hasnt-been-perfected-enough-to-formalize.com
etc…

The foundation of science is in discovering the commonalities of logical patterns that make up the universe. The foundation of the study of logic (in philosophy) is about informalities that are commonly perceived in arguments as not being related to solving the argument. Fallacies are examples of informal logic, which makes them a “means to an end” rather than “ends of themselves”. That is how I try to use them. That is, evidently, not how the bulk of you try to use them and there is a more serious problem with your own logic(s) not conforming to literacy standards. The number of fallacies you have committed as sole premises of arguments is staggering; which is again, another reason why I can’t allow you to claim any victory.

To summarize where the rest of this thread is going, because many of you have already lost on the original topic of exploits used in that video: You guys have been a textbook example of one-goes-in, another-one-follows. Is there anyone else?