Guild Wars 2

I wondered what your thoughts were on elite specs if they were to be taken out of wvw or at least toned down…

It’s not going to happen.

Shouldn’t you be buying guilds for FA right now? Ya know, to help perpetuate the server stacking in wvw?

Not something to even consider or discuss since it will never happen. It’s one of the big features for the expansion, why would they even take it out of a part of the game.

Why?
They’re part of the game, now. A few outliers might need some shaving but there’s no point in outright removing them.

+1 to “toned down”

Honestly, I would prefer seeing the core specs being buffed instead of the Elite ones being nerfed.

As long as they’re “Equalized” I’m happy, either direction

Outside of extreme circumstances, elite specs are unlikely to be toned down.

I think what you are likely to see is targeted improvements to core trees and abilities.

joneirikb.7506:

As long as they’re “Equalized” I’m happy, either direction

I don’t really trust in equalizing by nerfing what is good instead of buffing what is bad. That’s Blizzard way of doing things and it does not work at all.

But buffing what is bad to the same levels of what is good creates even more power creep. Is the DotA way of balancing.
Balance is something very, very delicate. In GW2 even more. 3 different gamestyles (with many subdivisions, like raiding, open world, bunker, far-pointer, zerg, roaming etc) and the actual huge amount of customization in the game (traits, stats, weapons, skills etc). I believe we are actually pretty close to the point that the game was at its best balance (few months before HoT) but true balance is never achieved in MMORPGs, when they have so many variables. We still have some serious balance offenders but balance is actually getting better, not worse.
There’s also the factor that this is Build Wars 2. And no matter what you play, something will counter you and make it feels op.
But in the end ANet will release a new expansion and all will be in vain.

Jeknar.6184:

joneirikb.7506:

As long as they’re “Equalized” I’m happy, either direction

I don’t really trust in equalizing by nerfing what is good instead of buffing what is bad. That’s Blizzard way of doing things and it does not work at all.

Nerfs and shaving are how MOBA and true-PvP games have to work. Infinite power creep destroys games; see every Asian/Korean grinder.

There’s so much powercreep from the elite specs and other bonuses such as new armor stats, runes, and food that no amount of reasonable buffing can be done to core lines without just blowing the whole game out of proportion.

If the differences are subtle it’s one thing, but Elites for the most part offer so much extra that buffing baseline isn’t acceptable.

Jeknar.6184:

Honestly, I would prefer seeing the core specs being buffed instead of the Elite ones being nerfed.

Advocating power creep. I thought only pvers did that.

Deli.1302:

Advocating power creep. I thought only pvers did that.

It’s not strictly power creep. The reason that elite specs are powerful is because ANet have explicitly structured the trait system and the traits themselves to create synergies to benefit the elite specs. Only specific variations, usually one or two, of a class are at that class’s ‘peak power’. Other traitlines and skills can be buffed without fear of producing power creep.

You’re wasting your time. Is Neo there with you or something?

If they got rid of HoT specs in wvw, I think a lot of ppl would want their money back. Especially the ones who mainly WvW/PvP, like me. The thing IMO that could even things out a lot would be to tweak Vanilla specs without buffing the HoT ones w/o actually making HoT specs even more powerful. It’s just not gonna happen. Also, do you think Anet has the extra time and resources to put on that project? I’d rather them put that towards fixing all the major bugs and staying on the path of fixing WvW in general. WvW has had trouble WAY before HoT elite specs. It started to really die out many, many months before. Even before the dumb Golem Week debacle.

Better would be to take a handful over used traits/skills on each class and tone them down a tiny bit and take a handful unused traits/skills and buff them each quarter.

The meta should be telling ANet what needs balancing simply by looking at the top players and what they are and are not using.

Straegen.2938:

Better would be to take a handful over used traits/skills on each class and tone them down a tiny bit and take a handful unused traits/skills and buff them each quarter.

The meta should be telling ANet what needs balancing simply by looking at the top players and what they are and are not using.

And this is how balancing is typically done professionally.

Frequent and iterative tweaks to simply disrupt the meta out of being a rock-solid ideological construct promote healthy gameplay across the board.

2 years ago I had P/D, S/D, D/P, D/D (and offhand S/P) thief buddies. That’s ideal to me – I can play a certain class which has multiple viable weaponsets and builds.
A meta and “shaking up the meta” is stupid, in my opinion as in case a) class x with build y will be viable, case b) will be class y with build z.
Bit by bit adjustments, as suggested, would be really great though and if nothing were set in stone and if we had more frequent than 4 month balance updates at least until this game isn’t just facerolling to win anymore.
But guess that won’t happen.

DeceiverX.8361:

Straegen.2938:

Better would be to take a handful over used traits/skills on each class and tone them down a tiny bit and take a handful unused traits/skills and buff them each quarter.

The meta should be telling ANet what needs balancing simply by looking at the top players and what they are and are not using.

And this is how balancing is typically done professionally.

Frequent and iterative tweaks to simply disrupt the meta out of being a rock-solid ideological construct promote healthy gameplay across the board.

Anet seems too disorganized to be that consistent.

Or more likely, there are a bunch of devs that would love to do just that, but don’t get the “go” signal from their bosses, so thus can’t do anything about it, as it isn’t prioritized. Company gotta make money after all, you don’t make money from patching/updating the existing game (unless there is a montly sub), so I’m betting 90+% of the effort is on the new expansion.

Be glad we got people patching and fixing things at all.

joneirikb.7506:

Or more likely, there are a bunch of devs that would love to do just that, but don’t get the “go” signal from their bosses, so thus can’t do anything about it, as it isn’t prioritized. Company gotta make money after all, you don’t make money from patching/updating the existing game (unless there is a montly sub), so I’m betting 90+% of the effort is on the new expansion.

Be glad we got people patching and fixing things at all.

~80% of my buddies left the game because there’s no balance.

Jana.6831:

joneirikb.7506:

Or more likely, there are a bunch of devs that would love to do just that, but don’t get the “go” signal from their bosses, so thus can’t do anything about it, as it isn’t prioritized. Company gotta make money after all, you don’t make money from patching/updating the existing game (unless there is a montly sub), so I’m betting 90+% of the effort is on the new expansion.

Be glad we got people patching and fixing things at all.

~80% of my buddies left the game because there’s no balance.

All of my real life buddies left the game after 1-2 weeks after release, essentially because it wasn’t WoW. People get tired of the game, find other things, things change the game etc. Sad to hear you lost people you used to play with.

But ANet specifically stated when they released the game that as with GW1, they didn’t plan on making a game to keep players playing all the time, they planned to make game people could come and go from/to. I do think they’ve done a good job at that, it is a very easy game to put aside for a few months and come back to for a few weeks etc. Unfortunately most WvW’ers love to burn themselves out :p

Obviously the world would be a better place if they fixed balance, not arguing against that. But the world would also be better with Rainbows, Unicorns and free funding to game developers so they could work on what they wanted to work on and not what their bosses tells them to prioritize.

And the best balance, is when there exist absolutely no reason to pick one over any other play-style, except for what fits you personally the best. Haven’t seen a game manage that yet.

+1 for toning down. Some abilities and mechanics are just ridiculous at the moment.

joneirikb.7506:

But ANet specifically stated when they released the game that as with GW1, they didn’t plan on making a game to keep players playing all the time, they planned to make game people could come and go from/to.

Really? Cause the two week living story thing says otherwise.

I believe that line of thought was in regards to gear, players could leave and come back in a year and not worry about having to catch up, the free to play model makes this happen also. But it’s something they kinda lied about when they brought in ascended afterwards, especially now with raids and players feel they need to equip ascended to get in, which has shot it’s mats threw the roof.

Any company that relies on a gem store to survive and then thinks it’s ok for players to get bored and leave for however long of a period of time to never returning, is running a terrible business. Sorry but it is.

If you want your customers to buy from you whether that’s gems or a subscription or an expansion, you need to keep them interested in the game, or you risk them leaving for another game and never returning, something a lot of wvw’ers have done unfortunately.

joneirikb.7506:

All of my real life buddies left the game after 1-2 weeks after release, essentially because it wasn’t WoW. People get tired of the game, find other things, things change the game etc. Sad to hear you lost people you used to play with.

It’s all good, I’m a wvw player – there’s always friendly people around – and that is a reason a lot haven’t quit (yet).

joneirikb.7506:

But ANet specifically stated when they released the game that as with GW1, they didn’t plan on making a game to keep players playing all the time, they planned to make game people could come and go from/to. I do think they’ve done a good job at that, it is a very easy game to put aside for a few months and come back to for a few weeks etc. Unfortunately most WvW’ers love to burn themselves out :p
Obviously the world would be a better place if they fixed balance, not arguing against that. But the world would also be better with Rainbows, Unicorns and free funding to game developers so they could work on what they wanted to work on and not what their bosses tells them to prioritize.

And the best balance, is when there exist absolutely no reason to pick one over any other play-style, except for what fits you personally the best. Haven’t seen a game manage that yet.

The thing with quoting anet is that you guys get it very likely wrong.
Don’t you think any company wants to keep their customers? And get some new ones, of course, but while you could hop onto any class with nearly any set and any gear back in the day (GW2 was pretty much balanced before June 2015 – with some exceptions) and be successful in whatever game mode, you now have to have ascended, HoT, can only play elites, of that only a certain build, with a gear you have to grind and best have got 2 builds, one for PvE, one for WvW. If I were new I’d likely leave soon as the playing itself might be easy, the getting there is darn complicated.
It’s great for PvE players but the rest of this beautiful game goes unnoticed “Combos? Why should I dodge? Why would I play set x or y?” and also the PvP/WvW aspect which still are a bunch of players.

aandiarie.7195:

I wondered what your thoughts were on elite specs if they were to be taken out of wvw or at least toned down…

Answer to both questions… No

It’s been almost a year… time to finally adapt to changes.

They could boost normal specs. I would play normal necro if i could make better condi dmg while i am in death shroud.

Xenesis.6389:

I believe that line of thought was in regards to gear, players could leave and come back in a year and not worry about having to catch up, the free to play model makes this happen also. But it’s something they kinda lied about when they brought in ascended afterwards, especially now with raids and players feel they need to equip ascended to get in, which has shot it’s mats threw the roof.

You can do raids without ascended equipment. It’s only high level fractals that require you to have several ascended equips in order to have slots for agony resist (unless you’re rich and can slot infusions of +20 or more in your accessories).

Jeknar.6184:

Honestly, I would prefer seeing the core specs being buffed instead of the Elite ones being nerfed.

buffing core specs buffs elite specs. Every Elite build includes two core traitlines.

The reason elites are always taken isn’t even because of the traitline either, elites are always taken for the new class mechanic (continuum split, reaper shroud, celestial avatar, berserk mode, etc) The elite traitlines themselves are honestly underwhelming for a lot of classes.

After all what is better, Mesmer with 4 shatters, or Mesmer with 4 shatters and continuum split?

Crinn.7864:

Jeknar.6184:

Honestly, I would prefer seeing the core specs being buffed instead of the Elite ones being nerfed.

buffing core specs buffs elite specs. Every Elite build includes two core traitlines.

The reason elites are always taken isn’t even because of the traitline either, elites are always taken for the new class mechanic (continuum split, reaper shroud, celestial avatar, berserk mode, etc) The elite traitlines themselves are honestly underwhelming for a lot of classes.

After all what is better, Mesmer with 4 shatters, or Mesmer with 4 shatters and continuum split?

But if all core trait were actually good, you problably wouldn’t need the elite one… Warrior is a good exemple. I don’t need to have Berserker to roll over people. Strenght/Defense/Discipline is just as solid as it’s counterpart that use Berserker instead of Strenght. And that’s because Strenght have good traits that make it par with the elite traitline. Now on mesmer it’s just inviable to play without Chrono. Chronophantasma and Illusionary Reversion are far too powerful compared to any trait in any line.

My fear is that if Arena Net is to nerf the elite specs that they render it useless (like it happen everytime they nerf somenthing). We don’t need more useless traits/skills (we have plenty). We need the useless to be turned in somenthing useful.

All reasons aside, I think I remember somewhere someone from ANet saying before HoT came out that Elite Specialisations are not going to be an upgrade, was that really a thing?

Samug.6512:

All reasons aside, I think I remember somewhere someone from ANet saying before HoT came out that Elite Specialisations are not going to be an upgrade, was that really a thing?

That was the intent, quoted from the CEO himself.

Obviously this did not hold true in actual implementation.

ANet won’t tone down the elites till maybe a 2nd one is released and they realise they can’t adjust only the core traits to prevent stupidly strong builds without making other elites rubbish.

Jeknar.6184:

But if all core trait were actually good, you problably wouldn’t need the elite one… Warrior is a good exemple. I don’t need to have Berserker to roll over people. Strenght/Defense/Discipline is just as solid as it’s counterpart that use Berserker instead of Strenght. And that’s because Strenght have good traits that make it par with the elite traitline. Now on mesmer it’s just inviable to play without Chrono. Chronophantasma and Illusionary Reversion are far too powerful compared to any trait in any line.

My fear is that if Arena Net is to nerf the elite specs that they render it useless (like it happen everytime they nerf somenthing). We don’t need more useless traits/skills (we have plenty). We need the useless to be turned in somenthing useful.

Not quite right. The strength line offers damage boosts to compete with berserker but it lacks the spammable burst skills that berserker offers. It is that which is what makes adrenal health so strong on berserkers but relatively balanced on core warrior as you dodge both weapon set burst skills and you’ve denied 10s of adrenal healing. Berserker has a burst ready in 5s regardless, it also amplifies the strength of warrior in cleansing with cleansing ire, the outrage skill synergizes well with rousing resilience and headbutt allows for fast adrenal gains.

Elite specs just take everything up a notch by massively increasing the classes effectiveness in a lot of areas while covering some classes main weakness, great example being superspeed on shatter for chrono making sure shatters hit now.