Guild Wars 2

Jana.6831:

The problem with even sized groups fighting each other is rather simple: The servers would want to have the best shot at the matchup, so all the players in the group would have to give 100%; lvl 80, best weapons, gear, traits.. and would have to know all about the character they’re playing so they can give their best performance.
This would mean that no one would be able to level their new characters, so people would likely only play one character. This also means that new players wouldn’t be welcomed as they still don’t properly know how to play their class.

I’m sorry, but if you think player skill or preparedness is something to be avoided then I’ve got bad news for you. Player skill is precisely what we want to be the determining factor of a matchup. If a group of players are better prepared then they deserve to win, and it’s a good thing when they do. Promoting player skill is exactly what successful game systems do, and setting up an evenly matched field is the best way to do that. You then have nowhere other than your own ability to look to if you want victory. Winning with superior numbers is easy. In an evenly matched system, however, you would have to be straight up better!

As for player chauvinism, that’s a universal problem. Though I will say that I fundamentally disagree with people who think of newer players as a liability. From a competitive perspective they are an investment in the future that will pay off down the road, just a you were when you once were new. However, if we’re talking about game mechanics, the impact new players have on the ability of their team to perform is inversely proportional to the size of that team. The larger the team, the easier it is to accommodate a new player because their performance accounts for an increasingly smaller percentage of the whole. And WvW has very large teams – which on balance makes it a very inclusive format.

Myth Shaia.4856:

Ok, a few assumptions from me this time.

Talyn.3295:

Servers are fine. We don’t need any changes, and I am willing to be most of us don’t want them either.

This from a player on an overpopulated – wait I mean high coverage and overpopulated – server fighting against 2 other overpopulated & high coverage servers most of the time…you are right, you don’t need any changes. It is the low populated servers fighting against imbalanced overpopulated servers that need a change.

I suppose league season is a bit refreshing for you when you can go round and roflstomp for a while too.

Funny how you only pick the that one part. There are plenty of people on low population severs who don’t want this.

I hate saying this, but sometimes i think the people who complain the most are just to cheap to buy the gems to move. Assumption?

WvW servers are full of people that know each other and are friends. I can log into WvW and know the names/personalities of 100-200 people. I can hop in mumble and run with x group of people I know, hop to run with y group, log in at odd hours and run with eu/SEA guilds with people I know as well.

Removing the aspect of seeing people you know and are friends with by making it completely random removes a gigantic aspect of logging in everyday. The lure of this game is the combat and the social aspect. The combat is strengthened by having a tight community that is self-aware and judgmental. The community is being friends with all of those people.

I seriously have to question people that think a faceless eotm-style is at all desirable – do you have a terrible (community wise, not score wise) server? no friends on the server? do you just huddle in your own g chat and ignore everyone else on your server? I don’t see any other reason why you would think destroying massive social communities is even close to a positive.

Talyn.3295:

Distaste.4801:

So I’m selfish for wanting WvW to be healthier for all players? The word you’re looking for is selfless.

No, that isn’t the word at all. I am at least honest about my intentions, and if they are selfish or not. I won’t claim any moral high ground. You say you want want is good for wvw or a healthier one, however you want to make a choice for us. You don’t represent the whole community.

There are people who made choices, you want to un-make those. By telling us we have to play your way. And you are telling us its the best way. I will agree with Deli above me winning does come up a bit to much on your post. But I won’t say that is your only reason.

There are three groups of people on here. Those who move to big servers for bigger fights and those who move to smaller ones for smaller fights. And those who want there cake and eat it too. What you want is to tell them all they need to play your way. Which they don’t need to. Servers are fine. We don’t need any changes, and I am willing to be most of us don’t want them either.

You’re still not getting the idea at all. We implement a system that incorporates the communities we currently have and even give room for new communities to appear, all while balancing out the populations. This could incorporate new map rulesets, like a lower population roamer map, GvG match maps, etc. Things that try to cover all aspects of what people enjoy in WvW so that most people are covered.

As for winning coming up. I AM FROM BLACKGATE, I’ve won plenty. This isn’t some rant from a person on a lower server that doesn’t win matches. The point is that WvW is a competition and a lot of the fun in a competition is the fair chance at winning. The problem with the current system is that the population/coverage differences are so big that from match to match you either stomp the enemy or get your face pushed in. I love good close matchups win or lose, I don’t enjoy winning by a huge margin and no one enjoys losing by a large margin. I’m sure a lot of people would agree with me there. The game needs a system that brings close matchups back.

My vote is towards greater good of everyone by trying to find a new system that pleases the majority. Your vote is to stomp around saying “NO” and sticking your head in the sand while ignoring the problems. The mere fact that you cannot recognize there are major problems is baffling, have you not read the WvW forums for the past year? I guess if things are fine on Blackgate though then it’s fine for everyone…

First of all, I love how people assumed I was from a lower tier server. This is not true.

Second, the idea I originally proposed was not a copy of EotM. I merely mentioned EotM as an easy way of understanding my concept. Of course, if you had read my post closely instead of skimming over it, you would have seen that.

In addition, the reason why EotM is not as successful, sometimes resulting in one-sided rollovers, is because people still have a choice. If the current match is not going as well, people will more often than not, choose to play on the original WvW maps, where they have a little more control over their fate.

As for “fun” game-play, humor me for a bit, as I compare WvW to a Left 4 Dead versus match. In L4D, it is 4 vs. 4. If both teams are awful, good players usually do not stick around until the end. If one team is significantly better than the other is, the weaker team will usually rage-quite by the end of the first round. IF, however, teams are fairly well matched, players stick around until the end and really get into the game when it comes down to the wire. The same could be said about WvW. Good players on poorly performing servers where their competition is also poor (unless really devoted to a server for its community or some other connection), will likely transfer to a higher tier server to better enjoy the game. Otherwise, it would be boring for them. For those players on servers where they are getting steam-rolled, players will often become discouraged and stop playing for a while. If, however, the match-ups are fairly even, game-play will become much more intense and fun.

It is not rocket science.

What is currently holding WvWvW back, is server identity, which, as has been pointed out, is a joke, as communities are rather fickle. As soon as the going gets tough, many guilds and players are quick to abandon a server. With the release of the mega-server, server identity will only be further destroyed as more and more players begin to mingle with players from other servers. The only real viable sense of community exists with guilds and friends, which is why Anet should introduce a form or guild vs. guild match-up. I did not mention team vs. team, because Anet has already implemented a tournament revolving around this.

Regardless of what I say, server identity will eventually fade away. Those who oppose a more balanced system in regards to identity are only clinging to a sinking raft.

Kalyani.1453:

…snip

What is currently holding WvWvW back, is server identity, which, as has been pointed out, is a joke, as communities are rather fickle. As soon as the going gets tough, many guilds and players are quick to abandon a server. With the release of the mega-server, server identity will only be further destroyed as more and more players begin to mingle with players from other servers. The only real viable sense of community exists with guilds and friends, which is why Anet should introduce a form or guild vs. guild match-up. I did not mention team vs. team, because Anet has already implemented a tournament revolving around this.

Regardless of what I say, server identity will eventually fade away. Those who oppose a more balanced system in regards to identity are only clinging to a sinking raft.

Many of us do not agree that server identity is a joke.

Many of us do not agree that the only viable sense of community is guild/friends.

I do believe that ANet could add real GvG play and see where the customers end up playing.

My guild and I, as well as many other players, were sold a game that provided server-based WvW in a style inherited in spirit from DAoC’s RvR. That is the game we prefer to continue playing.

ANet has shown in the past, it is not adverse to changing anything (nothing is off the table and nothing lasts forever.)

There is a business decision that needs to be made, especially in the light of 3 new games – one recently released, one releasing in June, and a third in 2015 timeframe. Two of those games also offer RvR style play. One of them offers both combat movement/dodge mechanisms in a skilled-based play style as well as the opportunity for GvG endgame.

It is not necessarily a given that server identity will fade away.

It is clear that imbalances exist in GW2 for WvW exactly in the same way they existed with its predecessor DAoC and RvR.

As I said in another thread:

I think most of the players out here, as well as ANet understand that server population is a complex problem requiring multiple approaches to solve. And as a book on Urban Studies from over 40 years ago stated:

“Any intuitive change to a complex system will inevitably leave that system worse off.”

Lots of good ideas have been proposed out here. What we haven’t given ANet are the experiments which will prove which of these ideas will have the desired effect.

There really is no need for this thread.

As this season and it’s mass transfers have proven the only server community , loyalty or otherwise is with a winning side.

It’s the way of things and no post on this forum can change human nature.

Distaste.4801:

Talyn.3295:

Distaste.4801:

So I’m selfish for wanting WvW to be healthier for all players? The word you’re looking for is selfless.

No, that isn’t the word at all. I am at least honest about my intentions, and if they are selfish or not. I won’t claim any moral high ground. You say you want want is good for wvw or a healthier one, however you want to make a choice for us. You don’t represent the whole community.

There are people who made choices, you want to un-make those. By telling us we have to play your way. And you are telling us its the best way. I will agree with Deli above me winning does come up a bit to much on your post. But I won’t say that is your only reason.

There are three groups of people on here. Those who move to big servers for bigger fights and those who move to smaller ones for smaller fights. And those who want there cake and eat it too. What you want is to tell them all they need to play your way. Which they don’t need to. Servers are fine. We don’t need any changes, and I am willing to be most of us don’t want them either.

You’re still not getting the idea at all. We implement a system that incorporates the communities we currently have and even give room for new communities to appear, all while balancing out the populations. This could incorporate new map rulesets, like a lower population roamer map, GvG match maps, etc. Things that try to cover all aspects of what people enjoy in WvW so that most people are covered.

As for winning coming up. I AM FROM BLACKGATE, I’ve won plenty. This isn’t some rant from a person on a lower server that doesn’t win matches. The point is that WvW is a competition and a lot of the fun in a competition is the fair chance at winning. The problem with the current system is that the population/coverage differences are so big that from match to match you either stomp the enemy or get your face pushed in. I love good close matchups win or lose, I don’t enjoy winning by a huge margin and no one enjoys losing by a large margin. I’m sure a lot of people would agree with me there. The game needs a system that brings close matchups back.

My vote is towards greater good of everyone by trying to find a new system that pleases the majority. Your vote is to stomp around saying “NO” and sticking your head in the sand while ignoring the problems. The mere fact that you cannot recognize there are major problems is baffling, have you not read the WvW forums for the past year? I guess if things are fine on Blackgate though then it’s fine for everyone…

I don’t care what sever you are from. You just don’t listen. Can’t you read all the people posting from almost every server, maybe not on this thread, because by this point most of the community is sick of people trying to change our game to something they want. But on threads like this. Overall they don’t want this kind of change.

I can tell people what I do for them is for the greater good all day. But it doesn’t make it any more true. They don’t want to have some random color. If in doubt look around a little bit here on he forms. Open your eyes, its not just the big servers who would oppose this. If you can’t understand this I just feel sorry for you. I can’t keep going in circles with you.

Peace

ManaCraft.5630:

Deli.1302:

What is with so many peoples desire to “rise up” and win everything. What is so bad about being competitive in one tier and if not, being competitive in a lower tier? What is so bad about losing? Do people only have fun when they’re winning?

People have fun when they are playing against evenly matched opponents. It’s not about winning per se, it’s about having a fair shot at winning.

That’s precisely why I said “being competitive in a lower tier”. If you don’t have a fair shot at winning in a particular tier, but you’ll have a fair shot in a lower tier, doesn’t that achieve what people want as well?

Deli.1302:

That’s precisely why I said “being competitive in a lower tier”. If you don’t have a fair shot at winning in a particular tier, but you’ll have a fair shot in a lower tier, doesn’t that achieve what people want as well?

I think that’s mostly a hypothetical question. In practice it is impossible to find good matchups for all (or even most) servers. Though if you could, and if each server had enough players to support the game mode, then yes. But those circumstances are theoretical.

Kalyani.1453:

(…)
With the mega server update being released for PvE server balance, this change to WvW would relieve even more stress on servers as there would be no need/desire for a single server to be overpopulated as Blackgate is. Also, no one server would then dominate over the other, creating a happier gaming experience for all.

Essentially, this would be like combining the EotM gameplay with the server guesting system and megaserver matching system.

That would result on a full stacked server VS full stacked server wich IMO would be a kill for WVW .