Blackgate lost a T3 garrison mid week a couple of weeks back because we only had around 30 to defend against an 80 man assault. We had the numbers to defend, but we couldn’t get them onto the map because of the GvG (guild and spectators). Yeah it obviously effects WvW. Takes a long time to recover from a garrison reset. With organization and being considerate though, these things should not happen. There are plenty of times where GvG won’t effect WvW.
This speaks volumes, so basically you lost 20 ppl because of the GvG. The other 30+ that would have brought you to even numbers found watching others fight more interesting then WvW itself …
Is the problem GvG or the lack of attention Anet gives WvW to make it exciting ?
You all need to dislodge your heads and place blame where it is deserved. Anet released … are you ready for this … “GUILD WARS” 2 without the ability for guilds to combat one another, Anet has neglected WvW for a year, and yet somehow this has become the individual guilds fault. You ppl complaining disgust me, open your eyes and stop being lemmings. If your truly upset, start complaining to Anet, you will see just how much they care.
Sure Anet content are lacking but like I said everything has its place. I love wvw and I do some GvG. But a place for each things and everything has its place… but not gvg. there are no place where guilds can fight other guilds Anet need to bring some large Guilds Arena in order to allow them to gvg with people watching.
On another side if some people are spending lot of energy to win a wvw match fighting for ppt it’s a minimum respect not to pollute their game experience and take wvw rooms on wvw maps in order to do some gvg encounters…
And moreover gvg encounter won’t accept being attack by a wvw team running throught them disturbing their gvg fight… on a wvw map… see the logic?
There is no logic, their game play expierence =/= your game play expierence, as soon as ppl wrap their heads around that, then and only then will ppl realize who is to blame. If their GvG gets interupted by random WvW stuff, then your right, they have no reason to kitten, just as WvW players have no reason to complain about the GvG. The bottom line is Anet is incompetant, so both sides need to stop blaming each other and throw their complaints at Anet.
What we need is a new game mode and new maps for this actually. Just like they split solo tourneys in sPVP. And just like they split the jumping puzzles into their own maps.
Because why do GvG on maps that have towers, castles, supplies, etc, that have nothing to do with the GvG and are irrelevant to it. It’s just team deathmatch and nearly everything they created in WvW does not serve that purpose or relate to it in any way.
Making some small GvG maps would not be nearly so hard as making either sPVP or new WvW maps. All you need is mostly flat open ground, maybe some interesting scenery on the sides, and there you go. GvG players get their own space to do their thing without being interfered by zergs or people bugging them to ‘help the team’ and the those actually playing WvW as intended dont get hurt by 40 WvW slots being occupied by people just standing around contributing nothing for the length of the GvG battles.
There will never be peaceful coexistence on servers with regard to this issue unless they do this. Because a GvG is not just like a few people dueling behind a camp, that has little to no impact on the match. But when you have 20 people fighting, 20 more watching, that could be a third or more of your whole on map force.
What we need is a new game mode and new maps for this actually. Just like they split solo tourneys in sPVP. And just like they split the jumping puzzles into their own maps.
Because why do GvG on maps that have towers, castles, supplies, etc, that have nothing to do with the GvG and are irrelevant to it. It’s just team deathmatch and nearly everything they created in WvW does not serve that purpose or relate to it in any way.
Making some small GvG maps would not be nearly so hard as making either sPVP or new WvW maps. All you need is mostly flat open ground, maybe some interesting scenery on the sides, and there you go. GvG players get their own space to do their thing without being interfered by zergs or people bugging them to ‘help the team’ and the those actually playing WvW as intended dont get hurt by 40 WvW slots being occupied by people just standing around contributing nothing for the length of the GvG battles.
There will never be peaceful coexistence on servers with regard to this issue unless they do this. Because a GvG is not just like a few people dueling behind a camp, that has little to no impact on the match. But when you have 20 people fighting, 20 more watching, that could be a third or more of your whole on map force.
Anet you know what you have to do now ! Would make everyone happy and agree.
Blackgate lost a T3 garrison mid week a couple of weeks back because we only had around 30 to defend against an 80 man assault. We had the numbers to defend, but we couldn’t get them onto the map because of the GvG (guild and spectators). Yeah it obviously effects WvW. Takes a long time to recover from a garrison reset. With organization and being considerate though, these things should not happen. There are plenty of times where GvG won’t effect WvW.
Ok, so you lost an upgraded keep because a bunch of players were off doing something else instead of defending it. What if, instead of GvG, those guilds had been doing a guild mission during that time instead? Or running fractals? Or playing sPvP? Or doing Living Story content? Would you still be mad at them for not defending the keep?
WvW runs 24 hours a day and it’s not reasonable to expect players to devote 100% of their playtime toward maximizing PPT when the game offers so many other things to do. GvG happens to be player-created content rather than officially sanctioned by Arenanet, but it’s still a potential vector of play that many people enjoy.
Like I said, we had the numbers to defend, but we could not get them on the map because of the queue. I would have been fine with the guild not being in there and we would not have lost the keep. I wouldn’t be mad with them doing something outside of WvW because it does not effect the queue. Also, the guild in question, Ive rarely seen any of them in WvW and when it is its usually just one random solo player not doing much. Despite being a hardcore WvW player myself, I play with a PvX guild and I am completely fine with players doing PvE. I can live with players doing PvE when they are needed in WvW for numbers. But I do not like when we cannot get numbers because a guild thinks its fine to queue a map when skritt is hitting the fan. In Tier 1 numbers are rarely a big issue, even in Oceanic timezones, because there is organization and management of numbers in real time. These PvE events hurt all servers, sometimes one more than another, but GvGers needs to be considerate.
Because “GvG” has such a small following and simplistic play there will most likely never be any resources devoted to it. You guys have a functional place to GvG the eb jumping puzzle. It was separated for a reason and has everything you could ask for with a little courtesy on your guys part and everyone wins. If you guys start playing with the community instead of against us you could more successfully grow your program and maybe get those things you would like to see in the future.
I see good ideas every day …good in theory. – Shawn Farthing
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol
You’re making it a battle within the community Flute. You are blaming gvg players for poor ppt.
The jumping puzzle wont do and you should stop bringing it up. Just because you have an opinion, doesn’t give you the right to dictate how others play.
Tier 1 barely does this stuff anyway, and the primary groups are in lower tiers.
Getting really sick of seeing the name of this game being touted around as some reason for anything else we do or do not see in game. >< Doesn’t anyone here know any Guild Wars lore? Sheesh. You all need to go watch some Wooden Potatoes videos, his stuff actually makes it all pretty entertaining.
Totally support GvGers having their own place to play and enjoy the open PvP aspects of this game which should include a new map with less or no WvW objectives but there are a lot of more important problems in in WvW that need solving first.
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You’re making it a battle within the community Flute. You are blaming gvg players for poor ppt.
Yep, lets blame the one guy who doesn’t lack common sense.
Not sure if serious.
Totally.
So in your opinion, the guy who thinks T1 is built on planning and skill compared to the other tiers, not coverage and population, is the only one with common sense? That’s strange.
You’re making it a battle within the community Flute. You are blaming gvg players for poor ppt.
Yep, lets blame the one guy who doesn’t lack common sense.
Not sure if serious.
Totally.
So in your opinion, the guy who thinks T1 is built on planning and skill compared to the other tiers, not coverage and population, is the only one with common sense? That’s strange.
I guess your a fan of his since I have no idea what your talking about and it appears to have nothing to do with the topic we are discussing.
Like I said, we had the numbers to defend, but we could not get them on the map because of the queue. I would have been fine with the guild not being in there and we would not have lost the keep. I wouldn’t be mad with them doing something outside of WvW because it does not effect the queue. Also, the guild in question, Ive rarely seen any of them in WvW and when it is its usually just one random solo player not doing much. Despite being a hardcore WvW player myself, I play with a PvX guild and I am completely fine with players doing PvE. I can live with players doing PvE when they are needed in WvW for numbers. But I do not like when we cannot get numbers because a guild thinks its fine to queue a map when skritt is hitting the fan. In Tier 1 numbers are rarely a big issue, even in Oceanic timezones, because there is organization and management of numbers in real time. These PvE events hurt all servers, sometimes one more than another, but GvGers needs to be considerate.
So a BG guild did a GvG in BGBL correct and that lost you a Garrisson? Well the question is why would they do it in their home BL in the first place. Common sense always dictates that the guilds do it in the neutral 3rd server for many conveniences such as the ability to respawn and run back without delaying much time.
Since most of the PPT enthusiasts (I should know, I was one of them for ages) get pretty concerned/upset with waypointed keeps being lost in their homeBL just encourage your gvg guilds to do gvgs not on the homebl. Problem solved. If other maps have queues then thats your responsibility AS A SERVER to accommodate them or stop Q.Qing about losing T3 keeps.
Also unless they did an omegawaha rush, 30 people in a fully upgraded Garrison with supply with proper siege can hold an 80 man blob for ages (Yes alphas can be stopped). If its omegablob rushes cant do anything about it (this is another messup on anets side for making blueprints tradeable).
You’re making it a battle within the community Flute. You are blaming gvg players for poor ppt.
Yep, lets blame the one guy who doesn’t lack common sense.
Not sure if serious.
Totally.
So in your opinion, the guy who thinks T1 is built on planning and skill compared to the other tiers, not coverage and population, is the only one with common sense? That’s strange.
I guess your a fan of his since I have no idea what your talking about and it appears to have nothing to do with the topic we are discussing.
Like I said, we had the numbers to defend, but we could not get them on the map because of the queue. I would have been fine with the guild not being in there and we would not have lost the keep. I wouldn’t be mad with them doing something outside of WvW because it does not effect the queue. Also, the guild in question, Ive rarely seen any of them in WvW and when it is its usually just one random solo player not doing much. Despite being a hardcore WvW player myself, I play with a PvX guild and I am completely fine with players doing PvE. I can live with players doing PvE when they are needed in WvW for numbers. But I do not like when we cannot get numbers because a guild thinks its fine to queue a map when skritt is hitting the fan. In Tier 1 numbers are rarely a big issue, even in Oceanic timezones, because there is organization and management of numbers in real time. These PvE events hurt all servers, sometimes one more than another, but GvGers needs to be considerate.
So a BG guild did a GvG in BGBL correct and that lost you a Garrisson? Well the question is why would they do it in their home BL in the first place. Common sense always dictates that the guilds do it in the neutral 3rd server for many conveniences such as the ability to respawn and run back without delaying much time.
Since most of the PPT enthusiasts (I should know, I was one of them for ages) get pretty concerned/upset with waypointed keeps being lost in their homeBL just encourage your gvg guilds to do gvgs not on the homebl. Problem solved. If other maps have queues then thats your responsibility AS A SERVER to accommodate them or stop Q.Qing about losing T3 keeps.
Its one reason I personally don’t like reading people saying “its Anets fault, not ours”. OFC a GvG format would be great. I’d most likely get involved myself. But I feel as though players who have remarked in here and some actions I have seen in game are aimed to grief other WvW players under the pretense that “its Anets fault so deal with it or come on the forums and QQ getting a separate format”. Its a courtesy issue. I don’t go down and interrupt GvGs. Players organizing GvGs should use an unrelated BL that isn’t the most active at the time. We can all get along if people show some respect.
That is the funny thing though. Most experienced GvG guilds don’t arrange GvG’s in their home borderland. We be lazy and dont like running.
Also on your point; which is why such a thread or any concerns regarding GvG should be dealt with internally on a server level not over here; nothing gets solved here only further division of the two communities. What WvW-ers need to do is support helping GvG-ers find a place for ourselves that’s it.
I can agree with the sentiment that it’s hard to care about PPT in the first place.
The matches are too kitten long and are often decided by the end of the weekend anyway because one team will get a large enough lead. Individual events rarely matter much in the scope of the match. Level of coverage and who decides to take a few days off often determines the actual outcome, rather than the quality of your play personally.
Some nights it’s tough to pop into WvW and take what’s going on all that seriously.
Any sufficiently advanced skill is indistinguishable from luck.
What if the several guilds that have an interest in GvG took a break from WvW for a weekend?
I bet that wouldn’t impact the PPT at all! :-P
All these fights within the community are simply insane. As it’s been stated times and times again, it’s not a matter of GvGers vs WvWers: it’s a matter of having ANet lose a couple of days of development to set up a 2000×2000 map of flat grass with 3 spawn points in it.
The GvG people haven’t been asking for anything more than that.
I love to interfere with GvG games. Makes them go crazy and have to start over again ;]
Is it sad that people like you are going to be the driving force to getting GvG its own arena?
I would love to see GvG get it’s on arena, not because I’m against it (I sometimes participate) but because I think it should have an arena of its own.
The reason I jump in is because I’m sometimes in a troll mood and just feel for it. Many of the GvG guilds think they have the right to do that, and they get kitten ed off when people interfere. What they fail to realize is that WvW is a PvP environment where three different servers are fighting each other, therefore they have no right to be angry at people interfering, since they’re doing what they should do – PvP. It’s the same as when PvE players come to WvW to farm dailies and get kitten ed because they got killed by another player, same with the jumping puzzle. In PvP environment you should expect other people to jump in and do their thing.
I love to interfere with GvG games. Makes them go crazy and have to start over again ;]
Is it sad that people like you are going to be the driving force to getting GvG its own arena?
I would love to see GvG get it’s on arena, not because I’m against it (I sometimes participate) but because I think it should have an arena of its own.
The reason I jump in is because I’m sometimes in a troll mood and just feel for it. Many of the GvG guilds think they have the right to do that, and they get kitten ed off when people interfere. What they fail to realize is that WvW is a PvP environment where three different servers are fighting each other, therefore they have no right to be angry at people interfering, since they’re doing what they should do – PvP. It’s the same as when PvE players come to WvW to farm dailies and get kitten ed because they got killed by another player, same with the jumping puzzle. In PvP environment you should expect other people to jump in and do their thing.
I agree and disagree. If you are going to troll, troll the spectators, not the guilds actively participating. Spectators are free game for all I care, but trolling/griefing a structured, set-up fight that people spend time preparing for, is kind of a kitten move. Yeah trolls are annoying but they aren’t going to deter people from fighting, you’ll simply be killed and they’ll keep fighting anyway.
I’ll say it again, yes it’s allowed but it’s also an underwritten rule. Do I interfere a random 1v1 I come across? Na I’ll let them duke it out. Will I kill the winner? Of course.
Put yourself in their shoes and try to get a sense for how you would feel if people were screwing with one of your fights. WvW and GvG can coexist perfectly fine.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
All these fights within the community are simply insane. As it’s been stated times and times again, it’s not a matter of GvGers vs WvWers: it’s a matter of having ANet lose a couple of days of development to set up a 2000×2000 map of flat grass with 3 spawn points in it.
The GvG people haven’t been asking for anything more than that.
I love to interfere with GvG games. Makes them go crazy and have to start over again ;]
Is it sad that people like you are going to be the driving force to getting GvG its own arena?
I would love to see GvG get it’s on arena, not because I’m against it (I sometimes participate) but because I think it should have an arena of its own.
The reason I jump in is because I’m sometimes in a troll mood and just feel for it. Many of the GvG guilds think they have the right to do that, and they get kitten ed off when people interfere. What they fail to realize is that WvW is a PvP environment where three different servers are fighting each other, therefore they have no right to be angry at people interfering, since they’re doing what they should do – PvP. It’s the same as when PvE players come to WvW to farm dailies and get kitten ed because they got killed by another player, same with the jumping puzzle. In PvP environment you should expect other people to jump in and do their thing.
I agree and disagree. If you are going to troll, troll the spectators, not the guilds actively participating. Spectators are free game for all I care, but trolling/griefing a structured, set-up fight that people spend time preparing for, is kind of a kitten move. Yeah trolls are annoying but they aren’t going to deter people from fighting, you’ll simply be killed and they’ll keep fighting anyway.
I’ll say it again, yes it’s allowed but it’s also an underwritten rule. Do I interfere a random 1v1 I come across? Na I’ll let them duke it out. Will I kill the winner? Of course.
Put yourself in their shoes and try to get a sense for how you would feel if people were screwing with one of your fights. WvW and GvG can coexist perfectly fine.
I agree and disagree too :p It’s annoying to get interrupted, but it’s something you should expect to happen. Those times I do it I’m just kitten ing around doing nothing and just jump in for the fun.. Some of the times it’s because the commander ask for help with sieges but can’t get any, because GvG players are holding the queue… Those times it’s really hurting WvW.
I agree that it’s “wrong” of me to interfere, morally at least, but not mechanically if you understand. It’s not cool or good sportsmanship to do so, but it’s something all GvG players should expect. I’m usually leaving you guys alone, but sometimes I’m just in the mood, and being a thief makes it even more fun Being able to jump in, tease them and then just stand on the sideline and see them go crazy looking for me – hilarious ;p
For many of the guilds, WvW is what they do between the GvGs. You take away the GvGs and you will likely lose them for the WvW as well. It’s a package, you get it all (good and the bad) or you get none of it (just the bad).
Wow I’m agreeing with Burl. Some unprecedented agreements have taken place in this thread. But yeah, I agree.
You missed where I said “committed” WvW players. You’re talking from the point of view of a casual here, I’m sure of it.
Sure, if you limit your definition of what a “committed WvW player” is to the players in large guilds that are interested in GvG.
I guess no one else is allowed to be invested in the game. we’ll stay in our casual ghetto then.
Invested in WHAT game? There’s no game left here, other than fights. It’s just population wars. The servers with more population on a given week win. Period. It’s not a game, it’s a farce.
GvG is a game. Even numbered teams, level playing field, test your mettle. Just like any other “sport” in the world. You don’t find the tPvP scene throwing uneven teams at each other then bragging when the team with twice as many players wins…
“Some of the times it’s because the commander ask for help with sieges but can’t get any, because GvG players are holding the queue”
I’ll stop you right there. While this may be the case in T1, this certainly isn’t the case in any other tier anywhere and quite frankly, tier 1 did that to itself in their constant stacking/recruiting wars.
Not to mention, NONE of these fights take place on either servers HOME BL (because the spawns are closer to Server C’s Home BL).
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
I have absolutely nothing against GvG, it is certainly more skillful than random zerging. This constant chest bumbing, self praise and most importantly thinking of it as the most elite PvP WvW has to offer is getting really old and makes you guys look not so good, tho.
I`m cringing inside when reading King Armadeus`posts, that arrogance… from someone who`s probably not able to hold his own in an environment where mechanical abilities are really needed to succeed. Just sad.
Again, I`m fully supporting your demand for an own gamemode/map or something along that line. But diminishing everything else is just pathetic.
Best regards
Well, when people disagree, people get heated and so on. If it helps I am literally the worst player on the planet but I still GvG
Again, I`m fully supporting your demand for an own gamemode/map or something along that line. But diminishing everything else is just pathetic.
It’s not meant to dimish others, but the GvG scene is made up mostly of people who have been playing WvW the longest, and are the most dedicated to the gametype. There’s a sense of seniority there, because as seniority goes…..they’re senior. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, but most of the opponents of the idea are those who have not “done their time” in WvW, so to speak.
I have absolutely nothing against GvG, it is certainly more skillful than random zerging. This constant chest bumbing, self praise and most importantly thinking of it as the most elite PvP WvW has to offer is getting really old and makes you guys look not so good, tho.
I`m cringing inside when reading King Armadeus`posts, that arrogance… from someone who`s probably not able to hold his own in an environment where mechanical abilities are really needed to succeed. Just sad.
Again, I`m fully supporting your demand for an own gamemode/map or something along that line. But diminishing everything else is just pathetic.
Best regards
And I will lose tons of sleep over your “inside cringing”. Diminishing a pathetic mechanic like PPT (which only proves coverage not skill), should not be considered pathetic.
“Some of the times it’s because the commander ask for help with sieges but can’t get any, because GvG players are holding the queue”
I’ll stop you right there. While this may be the case in T1, this certainly isn’t the case in any other tier anywhere and quite frankly, tier 1 did that to itself in their constant stacking/recruiting wars.
Not to mention, NONE of these fights take place on either servers HOME BL (because the spawns are closer to Server C’s Home BL).
Not all T1 servers r against GVGs, if you look in this thread the ones that r complaing about gvgs are all from the same server.
I also dont get why this server is soo against GVG, when they only have 1 guild that does it. Plus this server has the best coverage and is winning. IMO they care way to much about ppt, esp a person from that server is gonna make like 10 threads ,crying about guilds taking away his PPT
“Some of the times it’s because the commander ask for help with sieges but can’t get any, because GvG players are holding the queue”
I’ll stop you right there. While this may be the case in T1, this certainly isn’t the case in any other tier anywhere and quite frankly, tier 1 did that to itself in their constant stacking/recruiting wars.
Not to mention, NONE of these fights take place on either servers HOME BL (because the spawns are closer to Server C’s Home BL).
Not all T1 servers r against GVGs, if you look in this thread the ones that r complaing about gvgs are all from the same server.
I also dont get why this server is soo against GVG, when they only have 1 guild that does it. Plus this server has the best coverage and is winning
May be because whatever you can do is only bother everyone while trying to be as good as [RG] and Sacrx but you’ll never be : the legend story of GvG has been already written, you are coming too late for this. Now let’s wvw ^^
Everything you can do now is trying to be a pale copy of the original GvG legends
In my experience that is just not true, at least on the servers I have been. These veterans you`re talking about very often choose smallscale roaming over GvG because the challenge (imo) to absolutely feel your class and read your target is higher. It is not as predictable, offers a greater variety of situations that have to be faced etc pp. Your role and movement is not as limited and mechanical abitlites (which require to truly master the class) and timings can really shine.
No offense and I dont want to start another discussion, but this is what I am experiencing after 2000h + (WvW and PvP only). It might differ from server to server and person to person, tho. I´m talking just trends.
@ King Armadeus:
Sorry, grammar kitten, I`m not a native english speaker, you know these forums are for EU peops, too. Give it a try and grow up, somehow I knew you`d fall back to insults…
I\
No offense and I dont want to start another discussion, but this is what I am experiencing after 2000h + (WvW and PvP only). It might differ from server to server and person to person, tho. I´m talking just trends.
Again, I`m fully supporting your demand for an own gamemode/map or something along that line. But diminishing everything else is just pathetic.
It’s not meant to dimish others, but the GvG scene is made up mostly of people who have been playing WvW the longest, and are the most dedicated to the gametype. There’s a sense of seniority there, because as seniority goes…..they’re senior. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, but most of the opponents of the idea are those who have not “done their time” in WvW, so to speak.
You really have to stop with this kind of thinking/writing. What you keep saying or implying is that there’s some kind of superiority involved with seniority, or a caste system. That’s simply not true and you are the only person even implying that such a caste system has any kind of legitimacy on all the pages of threads on this topic.
I guarantee I have more hours in WvW than you do. Does that make me more senior to you?
Please stop talking this way. It does not help garner support for GvG.
For many of the guilds, WvW is what they do between the GvGs. You take away the GvGs and you will likely lose them for the WvW as well. It’s a package, you get it all (good and the bad) or you get none of it (just the bad).
Wow I’m agreeing with Burl. Some unprecedented agreements have taken place in this thread. But yeah, I agree.
You know you love me. Don’t deny it. I complete you.
You all need to go watch some Wooden Potatoes videos, his stuff actually makes it all pretty entertaining.
Being able to jump in, tease them and then just stand on the sideline and see them go crazy looking for me – hilarious ;p