I think his mindset is in the right place but it is explained poorly. What I believe Hick is trying to say is that the majority of people who are against GvG still see the ‘server pride’ and ‘joy’ of winning via PPT, rather than knowing that WvW is more fun when it is just about the fights. Most of the older or “senor” guilds quit playing the PPT game a long time ago and have shifted their focus towards personal and guild skill, something they can actually control. You can not control coverage on a guild scale.
Winning WvW isn’t dependent on any 1 guild so it takes the pride out of it. GvG is about Guild Pride and being better than your opponent, not just simply having more people over a 168 hour period.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
Again, I`m fully supporting your demand for an own gamemode/map or something along that line. But diminishing everything else is just pathetic.
It’s not meant to dimish others, but the GvG scene is made up mostly of people who have been playing WvW the longest, and are the most dedicated to the gametype. There’s a sense of seniority there, because as seniority goes…..they’re senior. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, but most of the opponents of the idea are those who have not “done their time” in WvW, so to speak.
You really have to stop with this kind of thinking/writing. What you keep saying or implying is that there’s some kind of superiority involved with seniority, or a caste system. That’s simply not true and you are the only person even implying that such a caste system has any kind of legitimacy on all the pages of threads on this topic.
I guarantee I have more hours in WvW than you do. Does that make me more senior to you?
Please stop talking this way. It does not help garner support for GvG.
Like I said, there are exceptions to every rule. Obviously there’s no excuse for rudeness, but GvGers are among the most experienced and skilled players out there. I was simply offering an explanation for why GvGers get passionate about what they love. They have earned the right to be passionate about it. They’ve developed an entire meta within a meta and have worked long, hard hours doing it.
GvGers are treated, more often, as less-than by the non-GvGers. It would be intentional ignorance to pretend there’s no blatant hate for GvGing and GvGers going on…
It’s not a caste system, it’s simple experience, and the directions that experience has led people. Don’t make more out of what I said than what was meant.
It’s not a caste system, it’s simple experience, and the directions that experience has led people. Don’t make more out of what I said than what was meant.
“We’re all better players than you, more experienced than you, more dedicated than you, have put way more into this than you, have worked much harder than you, and have earned way more than you. But don’t read anything into what I just said, I’m just sayin’”
Did that cover it? =)
Any sufficiently advanced skill is indistinguishable from luck.
@Hick talk about the game mechanics of GvG, chat that up. Ignore the detractors, because any statement that creates an us vs them mentality is alienating and does not further the cause.
It’s not a caste system, it’s simple experience, and the directions that experience has led people. Don’t make more out of what I said than what was meant.
“We’re all better players than you, more experienced than you, more dedicated than you, have put way more into this than you, have worked much harder than you, and have earned way more than you. But don’t read anything into what I just said, I’m just sayin’”
Did that cover it? =)
If you want to take what I said and completely change not only the meaning but the words themselves, you’re obviously just a troll throwing out bait.
Let me sum it up for everyone else’s benefit:
- GvGers get tons of hate for no perceivable reason.
- GvGers love what they do and are passionate about it.
- GvGers have worked very hard to get where they are and to drive this community.
- Being inflammatory about it (like your complete alteration of my words and meaning) is not cool, but it seems like the GvG opponents have NO trouble throwing out hate, and get all bent out of shape when someone rebuts what they say.
- When someone comes in who clearly does not understand the meta/reasoning and tries to tell those with more experience, who DO understand the meta/reasoning (and helped CREATE the meta), why they are wrong, it’s nonsensical, and SHOULD be corrected.
@Hick talk about the game mechanics of GvG, chat that up. Ignore the detractors, because any statement that creates an us vs them mentality is alienating and does not further the cause.
If you want to take what I said and completely change not only the meaning but the words themselves, you’re obviously just a troll throwing out bait.
You pretty clearly said that you’re better players, you’re more experienced, you’ve “earned” something, you’ve “created” some “meta”, and have worked “long hard hours”.
Not to mention the stuff about seniority and non-GvG’er not “paying their dues”.
You did say those things. Did you mean something else?
Any sufficiently advanced skill is indistinguishable from luck.
If you want to take what I said and completely change not only the meaning but the words themselves, you’re obviously just a troll throwing out bait.
You pretty clearly said that you’re better players, you’re more experienced, you’ve “earned” something, you’ve “created” some “meta”, and have worked “long hard hours”.
Not to mention the stuff about seniority and non-GvG’er not “paying their dues”.
You did say those things. Did you mean something else?
The point was: Put in a lot of hours and get the experience, and you earn the right to gain credibility for your opinions on a given topic. That’s just a fact of life, right there. It has nothing specifically to do with the GvG scene.
This “rule” is why common/big/experienced names in WvW on a given server are always the people who are followed and trusted. They have “paid their dues” and “earned” their way there.
None of this matters anymore since they are bringing back the orbs of power in the next patch. Have fun doing guild vs guild when one of those guilds has a stat advantage and the other doesnt due to their server having a stat advantage due to the orb.
And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once – Nietzsche
None of this matters anymore since they are bringing back the orbs of power in the next patch. Have fun doing guild vs guild when one of those guilds has a stat advantage and the other doesnt due to their server having a stat advantage due to the orb.
No one has any details on that. No one knows the mechanics, how the control of it will go, what the buffs will be, etc etc etc.
This is also a repost from something you said in the scene thread 2 minutes ago.
The point was: Put in a lot of hours and get the experience, and you earn the right to gain credibility for your opinions on a given topic. That’s just a fact of life, right there. It has nothing specifically to do with the GvG scene.
This “rule” is why common/big/experienced names in WvW on a given server are always the people who are followed and trusted. They have “paid their dues” and “earned” their way there.
Ok, so you’re dodge-rolling out of the rest of what you said.
Any sufficiently advanced skill is indistinguishable from luck.
The point was: Put in a lot of hours and get the experience, and you earn the right to gain credibility for your opinions on a given topic. That’s just a fact of life, right there. It has nothing specifically to do with the GvG scene.
This “rule” is why common/big/experienced names in WvW on a given server are always the people who are followed and trusted. They have “paid their dues” and “earned” their way there.
Ok, so you’re dodge-rolling out of the rest of what you said.
The point was: Put in a lot of hours and get the experience, and you earn the right to gain credibility for your opinions on a given topic. That’s just a fact of life, right there. It has nothing specifically to do with the GvG scene.
This “rule” is why common/big/experienced names in WvW on a given server are always the people who are followed and trusted. They have “paid their dues” and “earned” their way there.
Ok, so you’re dodge-rolling out of the rest of what you said.
Good players know when to use their dodge rolls.
Touche. Well played, sir. =D
Any sufficiently advanced skill is indistinguishable from luck.
The point was: Put in a lot of hours and get the experience, and you earn the right to gain credibility for your opinions on a given topic. That’s just a fact of life, right there. It has nothing specifically to do with the GvG scene.
This “rule” is why common/big/experienced names in WvW on a given server are always the people who are followed and trusted. They have “paid their dues” and “earned” their way there.
Ok, so you’re dodge-rolling out of the rest of what you said.
Oh you want details @Hickeroar.9734, here ya go, two direct quotes from Devon Carter
“Are the orbs coming back? No. Are we bringing back the buff? Yes, although the way you get it and hold it is going to be drastically different. Are you going to see a major map change in concert with this? Yes. Is it coming soon? Most definitely.”
And
“Here’s the thing to remember, it may buff the better servers for a time, but if it is relatively easy to take from a better server, it isn’t going to cause nearly the same problems that the original buff did. I will say that when this goes back into the game, we’ll continue to monitor the effects and make changes as necessary.”
Its pretty easy to infer from those two statements that they are going to bring back the stat buff. I dont know about you but I wouldnt call a guild vs guild fight with one guild having a stat buff fair and balanced pvp.
And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once – Nietzsche
I’m going to play the devils advocate at the moment. I think most would agree that WvW’s state at the moment isn’t that desirable which is making GvG far more appealing. I’m sure if WvW was more interesting, there would be far less GvG going on..
But for the people who are “pro GvG” or arguing that people are allowed to play how they want to play… how would you feel if there was a sudden influx trolls that just entered WvW just for the sole purpose making sure that you don’t get in?
We all know that many people like to troll.. suppose now there was a troll guild that just parked itself in all maps of WvW for all hours of prime time.. dancing in their home base? Dolyak parade perhaps? Maybe just run around killing rabbits..
They bought the game, that’s how they want to play.. but yet, it affects you as you can no longer GvG.. are you going to get mad? Are you going to complain on the forums? Do you really have a case if there are say 200 people in WvW running shooting rabbits because that’s what they like to do?
I think Anet is going to do everything in their power to force you and everyone else to play the game they want you to play, and not let you play the one you want to. The only thing that remains to be seen is will Anets game be fun.
And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once – Nietzsche
I love how the anti gvg (fight club previously) people are waging a war and getting all snooty. You realize that if gvg goes away those people will very likely just quit….
And we all know a game with less people is always fun.
I hate it how norns level up in the human zones. If we had more norns in the norn zone we could kill champs. anet you need to restrict them from leaving and force them to play with me…
But for the people who are “pro GvG” or arguing that people are allowed to play how they want to play… how would you feel if there was a sudden influx trolls that just entered WvW just for the sole purpose making sure that you don’t get in?
That’s the thing. I’m not really anti or pro GvG, but it’s weird to hear the GvG people go on about how mean trolls are, how mean it is for WvW people to disrupt them or mess with what they’re doing.
And yet, they’re the ones bringing in THEIR business into the zones set aside for WvW play. They’re the ones disrupting things, especially in prime time when a map might have a queue, and now you can’t get people in to do WvW because the GvG people and spectators have taken over.
Again, I’m not really for or against GvG, but at the same time it seems relevant to remind people that it’s not a “GvG zone that WvW players are coming into and trolling”, but rather the opposite.
Any sufficiently advanced skill is indistinguishable from luck.
and now you can’t get people in to do WvW because the GvG people and spectators have taken over.
This move has been a long time coming and a slow trickle all along. It is not GvG that has taken over, the issue is that WvW is irrelevant and a waste of time to focus on for the vast majority of the players and servers in this game.
NA servers have only so much off-hour population to make a few servers competitive, 3.5 to be exact. Everyone else, what is PPT to them? WvW is a PvP activity, it is supposed to be competitive. However the system ANET has created, their decisions around coverage and population, and match making, has built a system that is only really competitive for a few servers. GvG is just a way to add competition back for folks that are tired of pointless matches that are lopsided and mostly predetermined before reset is 5 mins old.
Instead of blaming GvG folks should be focusing on why people have become so disinterested in WvW.
@Thesilentflute
Please, write open petition to all guilds involved in GvG on your server to transfer to T3-T4. I 100% sure that this measure will increase your server ppt alot.
It may not be meant to diminish the real game mode, but it does our server had people foolish enough to hold these at the times they did and it caused us to lose the lead. We should have lost the match, but there were some players from sor that were just as foolish and the reason I brought up its potential use for espionage.
Even if we win every match “GvG” is still a problem because it kills competition or at least they try to. Even in this thread you have these "GvG"ers talking down to people actually playing the game when they are 0.333333333% of the games population less than 1%.
The % above is when I use the highest possible number of GvGers rounded up along with the total number of copies sold rounded down to the nearest million then reduced by 50% so the actual % "GvG"ers make up is much lower.
The best part in all this is it wouldn’t be an issue at all if it was done in the eb jp.
On a side note anyone that cares should check out the thread they made in spvp the real pvpers are tearing them to shreds.
I see good ideas every day …good in theory. – Shawn Farthing
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol
I love the idea of GVG the only thing i have against it is groups are constantly and indirectly farming WXP non stop by doing this. ..cheating? what about the random WvW players whom spend their time in wvw objectives they are aquiring wxp at the intended normal rate.
I love the idea of GVG the only thing i have against it is groups are constantly and indirectly farming WXP non stop by doing this. ..cheating? what about the random WvW players whom spend their time in wvw objectives they are aquiring wxp at the intended normal rate.
You get far less WXP from fights than you do from capturing objectives.
The % above is when I use the highest possible number of GvGers rounded up along with the total number of copies sold rounded down to the nearest million then reduced by 50% so the actual % "GvG"ers make up is much lower.
The maths is completely wrong to fit your bias. I dont even know why I am bothering to argue with this but the only thing that is relatively accurate is the total number of GvG-ers from the gw2gvg website.
Total number of copies sold =/ active playing population which =/ definitely does not equate active wvvw population which is substantially lower.
Lol It is completely wrong in the "GvG"ers favor lol. I reduced the number of copies sold by 50%. I could reduce it by 75% and "GvG"ers would still be under 1% of the population lol jesus some people.
If you have the wvw numbers for all servers plz show a better better reading. Make sure you link you sources though.
I see good ideas every day …good in theory. – Shawn Farthing
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol
Lol hic have you ever done any wvw. Since we have a list of "GvG"ers on http://gw2gvg.com a wxp roll back is in order. There is enough info there to get proper number.
We all know that kill trading is a largest part of “GvG”. If I were a dev I would have just banned everyone as soon as I found out about it. To ensure what went on in swtor doesn’t happen in this game. You can already see it in the works I am sure to the pleasure of up coming rivals. It is also most likely the reason such a small number of players are so pronounced on these forums. Speaking of espionage lol.
Propaganda does not deceive people; it merely helps them to deceive themselves.
Eric Hoffer
I see good ideas every day …good in theory. – Shawn Farthing
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol
To be honest, GvG is the only thing keeping a lot of the guilds playing. So if you want to calculate something, calculate the impact on your precious PPT of losing those guilds permanently.
“I swung a sword, I swung a sword again, oh look I swung a sword again!”
- Colin Johanson while spamming key 1 in GW2
Lol if “GvG” is the only thing these guilds enjoy and would leave if they didn’t do it then why would it hurt wvw if they left. If they don’t enjoy wvw they don’t wvw so the wvw community would gain from them leaving.
No one has asked anyone to leave the problem with “gvg” is caused by the "gvg"ers if they would simply do it in the eb jumping puzzle or at the end of the week there would not be any problems with it apart from maybe the wxp/bag farming.
At some point I am sure they will add real GvG with the gw1 game mode in mind, but it isn’t going to be what you guys expect. No game mode in this game is as simplistic as what you guys do I am sure GvG will be no exception.
I see good ideas every day …good in theory. – Shawn Farthing
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol
Lol if “GvG” is the only thing these guilds enjoy and would leave if they didn’t do it then why would it hurt wvw if they left. If they don’t enjoy wvw they don’t wvw so the wvw community would gain from them leaving.
No one has asked anyone to leave the problem with “gvg” is caused by the "gvg"ers if they would simply do it in the eb jumping puzzle or at the end of the week there would not be any problems with it apart from maybe the wxp/bag farming.
At some point I am sure they will add real GvG with the gw1 game mode in mind, but it isn’t going to be what you guys expect. No game mode in this game is as simplistic as what you guys do I am sure GvG will be no exception.
Bero as I said you guys are less than 1% of the total population.
Since we do not have the avg wvw population for each server in 24 hour or higher time spans it is Impossible to come up with the wvw %.
My guess though is that it would not make that much of a change to the figure because of the extreme underestimation of current population that I used.
If you look at the NA servers all populations are high to very high if you look at EU the server populations are med-very high and this is off hours for NA.
Would you agree that there is most likely more than 750k players that is 25% of total copies sold rounded down to the nearest million. Lets say 50% of players wvw 375k players that comes to 1.33333333% with completely unrealistic numbers just over 1%.
I see good ideas every day …good in theory. – Shawn Farthing
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol
Propaganda does not deceive people; it merely helps them to deceive themselves.
Eric Hoffer
The number one troll in the WvW forums with narrow views (or just plain blind) should apply his ‘quotes’ to his arguments of ‘kill trading’ – amongst other simplistic views. Dunno why I bother even to answer, or read anything he writes anymore, guess just in hope he can see outside his views too.
Xenn [TDA]
Mesmer | Guardian | Necro | Ele
The Banana Team | www.tda.nu
So, in regards to GvG and openfield, I don’t see a lot of “rampant speculation” going on. If nothing else, you chose your words poorly. The complaints about this new system potentially killing the GvG scene is entirely grounded.
This forum and this topic in particular are about WvW. WvW is about sieging and controlling objectives and about open field combat. All our changes are with that totality in mind and will continue to be.
"GvG"ers are the ones trolling…. people with the audacity to post in the wvw forums when they are in direct opposition of wvw.
I see good ideas every day …good in theory. – Shawn Farthing
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol
Even if we win every match “GvG” is still a problem because it kills competition or at least they try to. Even in this thread you have these "GvG"ers talking down to people actually playing the game when they are 0.333333333% of the games population less than 1%.
How often are you going to copypaste this bit into every second post if yours?
Just asking because its completly wrong.
There was some blog or something with active players and average playtime per day was something like 30 minutes. Saw it on reddit or so a few weeks ago. I would look it up for you if you would stop bringing this 1% “argument” after see the player statistics, but I guess it wont happen.
Even in this thread you have these "GvG"ers talking down to people actually playing the game
You spend so much time on the forums that people are starting to wonder if you’re actually AFK on a WvW map while posting and thus preventing someone actually willing to play the game from getting in…
@Silentflute, when you quote percentage numbers you are actually including all the casual WvW players in that total i think. The people that GvG or are interested in it greatly outnumber the dedicated WvW players that don’t do it. Casual WvW players don’t care wabout the ppt or winning as much as you seem to think they do.
I wonder why you seem to have this vendetta against people who like to GvG, is it because you got rejected from a GvG guild because you weren’t good enough or is it just because you can’t stand to see others have fun if you aren’t involved?
Commander Oracle Of Glint
Executed [EXE]
Piken Square
@Silentflute, when you quote percentage numbers you are actually including all the casual WvW players in that total i think.
Not even. He is including the sold copies and trying to subtract the active accounts.
Given the fact that at least 90% of those “active” accounts just do a daily or monthly and nothing else (*) you end up with much, much less than the millions of WvW players he is using as reference to show how small the GvG-supporting community is.
(*) my personal guess after seeing this: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1j6bkv/interesting_figures_about_guild_wars_2_from_the/
And even this data is from a website that is trying to promote the game. God knows how they count those 2.5 million “active” accounts. And those numbers are pretty old by now.
12minutes playtime per day doesnt sound like a usual WvW player to me. Those have a lot more.
I’ll give you some numbers from my server(bear in mind it’s a Guild based server). We have around 40-50 dedicated WvW players that aren’t in a GvG guild the rest are casual players, we have 15+ GvG orientated guilds on our server most running around 20-25 people. So that makes around 10-15% of my servers playerbase dedicated WvW players that aren’t interested in GvG(for the sake of argument, i could poll them but most would be in favour of GvG’s happening just not in playing in them). So of the dedicated WvW population 3/4’s want to do or currently do GvG’s, thats not a minority and i think you’ll find a lot of other servers have at least half of their dedicated WvW playerbase interested in GvG’s.
The thing is a lot will not come on here because they don’t see the point of trying to make you see reason all they’re interested in is having fun with their guild mates within WvW, be it GvG, open field fighting or keep taking.
Commander Oracle Of Glint
Executed [EXE]
Piken Square
Amazing people take the false moral high ground instead of admitting they were outplayed by JQ and their own GvG affected the outcome.
GvG is a bit like losing a tpvp match and saying “whoa, people still care about capping points? 1v1 me bro. No stomps, you lose on down, and we stay in this little corner of the map” What a strange way to play gw2—it’s the ultimate egotistic / vanity move: lose PPT so start thumping chest and challenging a 1v1 to save face. That’s all this gvg nonsense is (besides a complete joke).
Lol @ everyone who thinks that way: you lost before the battle even started. Oh, and for all your gvg “pro” nonsense, I still wipe the floor with my ranger. Ahahaha! GG
You guys used to have heart for wvw— now you’re an empty shell. Eagerly awaiting the exodus of gvg guilds and the resulting mayhem in T1. Your tears level me up!
Tin Foil Hat Hearer »—> Ranger Extraordinaire »—> “Be like water…”
Diehard WvW players don’t even care that much about PPT anymore. Fighting for PPT isn’t fun, it’s often boring and strenuous. GvG is one of the only forms of true entertainment in WvW left.
Amazing people take the false moral high ground instead of admitting they were outplayed by JQ and their own GvG affected the outcome.
GvG is a bit like losing a tpvp match and saying “whoa, people still care about capping points? 1v1 me bro”
Lol @ everyone who thinks that way: you lost before the battle even started. Oh, and for all your gvg “pro” nonsense, I still wipe the floor with my ranger. Ahahaha! GG
You guys used to have heart for wvw— now you’re an empty shell. Eagerly awaiting the exodus of gvg guilds and the resulting mayhem in T1. Your tears level me up!
Comparing GvG to tPvP is idiotic. tPvP, requires teamwork to win. In WvW, coverage is the factor that contributes to the 90%+ of a server’s PPT.
Put it this way- I think we can agree on some excellent WvW guilds that excel in open field combat (Skill, teamwork). I can name a few, such as [TW], the former [RG]… etc. (You can find more at gw2gvg.com). If you put those guilds in one server, and rest of Na population on the other, the server with the best wvw guilds would’t stand a chance.
Amazing people take the false moral high ground instead of admitting they were outplayed by JQ and their own GvG affected the outcome.
GvG is a bit like losing a tpvp match and saying “whoa, people still care about capping points? 1v1 me bro”
Lol @ everyone who thinks that way: you lost before the battle even started. Oh, and for all your gvg “pro” nonsense, I still wipe the floor with my ranger. Ahahaha! GG
You guys used to have heart for wvw— now you’re an empty shell. Eagerly awaiting the exodus of gvg guilds and the resulting mayhem in T1. Your tears level me up!
Comparing GvG to tPvP is idiotic. tPvP, requires teamwork to win. In WvW, coverage is the factor that contributes to the 90%+ of a server’s PPT.
Swooooooooooosh—you missed the point.
Tin Foil Hat Hearer »—> Ranger Extraordinaire »—> “Be like water…”
I answer here for the last time. Also not replying to your PM anymore since you dont have any idea what is going on on other servers lower than T2(NA).
Assuming those numbers were true (they are from the first 4 months of the game), those are simply sold copies you are mentioning. Sold copies != active WvW accounts. Get this fact into your head now. Please. You were ignoring it the past few days in every single thread and arument.
I repeat: Sold copies do not equal active WvW accounts (i repeat, will the real slim shady please stand up?!)
Now that we have this sorted you can rethink about your example.
Yes GvG population is less than 1% of the games copies.
But if you think about it, players got less, not more. If the playerbase would have been constant or would have gotten more, your server wouldnt have to play the politics game and recruit even EU guilds.
So we end up with this simple fact: there ARENT 2.5 mil active accounts left.
Hell I would even say there is barely 1 mil active accounts left. Active means for me more than doing a daily once a week. Now, considering how few people play WvW regulary compared to PvE.
WvW does certainly not have a 6 digit player base. Unless there are 5h queues on T1/T2 servers 24/7.
From my perspective the active WvW population of this game is somewhere at the lower end of 5 digit numbers. But again, thats only my speculation. With this more realistic approach:
Yes GvG population is probably still less than 50% of WvW community.
BUT: GvG players still do WvW most of the time and bring you your precious points.
So why are you hating on the people who do zerg busting for you and capture objectives all week long? Is it because you fear for your ppt game? When was the last time you had actually fun in WvW by killing somebody? I feel like this is arguing with someone who only knows one side of the fence. Only looks to the other side to see that they also can have fun. And as soon as the other side asks Anet not to flood their playground(by adding +stats with some kind of orb mechanic), he starts to spit on the other side.
I can tell you that almost nobody below T1 does give a fork about GvGs happening on some BL. Because either they grew up and realised that there are different ways to have fun or are part of a guild that GvGs from time to time.
You are saying you run with 20-30 man group*s* in WvW all the time? I dont believe that for a second. Your server wouldnt be up there if you had multiple groups splitting from the blob.
“the way you guys have fun isn’t really fun, only we know what the true fun is”
I never said that. Some people think running around with the Endless Cat Tonic is fun. Some people think getting 15 legendaries is fun. But it’s not going to help you win! GvG only wins in an egotistic-vanity sense. WvW is where the true players support their server. These are facts of life, I didn’t come up with the facts.
Tin Foil Hat Hearer »—> Ranger Extraordinaire »—> “Be like water…”
