Guild Wars 2

msalakka.4653:

I think I’ve even lost a little weight!

Right?! I’ve been getting a lot more exercise since I basically quit playing. Thanks anet, you made it very easy to finally leave this game.

Excellent post Msalakka. All these automated stuff and no dolyaks required to upgrade basicly killed it too for me. Before i was 99% being found on home bdl upgrading – running dolyaks – keep camps safe/reflip them, tell other people to do the same. Scouting/sieging(refreshing) etc. But now its just all automatic so yeah, the gameplay i had for over 2.5 years right out the window and that just for 45 euro.

Nice, excellent ! Exact the same on my side !

Noooo not you too, you were always the person i knew i would find on the homeborder, and when i saw you on EB i nearly fell off my chair. I agree with everything you written and i tried my best to get our voice heard in here together with others, but nothing yet so i understand why people give up. I feel the same frustration and are just running out of will because of no response what so ever of were this is going. WvW was everything, and our homeborder was were my heart always was, now there is nothing to do on them, and noone want to play on the new borders.

All the yes sayers told us to wait and see wvw will come back to normal when all got their heropoints, i have that on 7 on my characters, and people did not come back, just as we said already in the beta test. And the people who like the map are obviously not the players that play wvw that often or are the bigger part of the players, because i for sure don’t see you guys out there playing it.

I don’t really understand why scouts think auto-upgrades and no supply needed for them are a bad thing.

I play on SFR and the upgrades didn’t meant that much when 50 vizuna would come with 6 superior rams or 12 guild catas at the wall. What really counted was the siege inside and now since you can build your siege quickly with the supplies inside instead of doing 12 runs to the nearest camp, makes scouting less painful.

You can now focus on what’s really important which is defending, not escorting turtle dollies that took one shot from a back-stabbing thief. You also have fortified gates which makes the rams less efficient and for towers you get 2 oils. Guild catas cost 50sups instead of 25sups and with the extra supply you have after finish building all your siege, you can repair the walls/gates without doing 10000 runs to the camp.

People either enjoy the pain or they played in T8 matches where blob are 5 people and run around when you hit them once with a normal arrow cart placed badly on the wall.

Catalin.5341:

I don’t really understand why scouts think auto-upgrades and no supply needed for them are a bad thing.

Because auto-upgrades give them no reason to be at a keep/tower/camp other than to cap it.

Yes, its as simple as that. It doesnt really have to do with scouts. It has to do with players having the very basic reason for being in WvW.

When you remove that you get a game that’s playing itself.

^ Manual upgrades – running dolyaks – keeping camps safe/reflip them, THAT generated fights for roamers. And that is all gone now with this auto pilot.

Dawdler.8521:

Catalin.5341:

I don’t really understand why scouts think auto-upgrades and no supply needed for them are a bad thing.

Because auto-upgrades give them no reason to be at a keep/tower/camp other than to cap it.

Yes, its as simple as that. It doesnt really have to do with scouts. It has to do with players having the very basic reason for being in WvW.

When you remove that you get a game that’s playing itself.

In my opinion, anyone who thought upgrading keeps was even in the top 3 things a scout needed to do, is terrible at it.

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

Catalin.5341:

I don’t really understand why scouts think auto-upgrades and no supply needed for them are a bad thing.

Because auto-upgrades give them no reason to be at a keep/tower/camp other than to cap it.

Yes, its as simple as that. It doesnt really have to do with scouts. It has to do with players having the very basic reason for being in WvW.

When you remove that you get a game that’s playing itself.

In my opinion, anyone who thought upgrading keeps was even in the top 3 things a scout needed to do, is terrible at it.

Naw, if it was used strategically, it was an essential part of being a good scout.

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

Catalin.5341:

I don’t really understand why scouts think auto-upgrades and no supply needed for them are a bad thing.

Because auto-upgrades give them no reason to be at a keep/tower/camp other than to cap it.

Yes, its as simple as that. It doesnt really have to do with scouts. It has to do with players having the very basic reason for being in WvW.

When you remove that you get a game that’s playing itself.

In my opinion, anyone who thought upgrading keeps was even in the top 3 things a scout needed to do, is terrible at it.

I never said they upgraded the keeps and crap specifically. Just watching over a keep until it had for example a waypoint was an important task.

Now it doesnt matter anymore. Loose hills, its just another keep. Loose garri, well recap it and it’ll have a waypoint. Why even bother. Upgrades may take a bit longer, but unless there is someone trying to cap things everything will get upgraded. Few people bother to dolly hunt.

Dawdler.8521:

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

Catalin.5341:

I don’t really understand why scouts think auto-upgrades and no supply needed for them are a bad thing.

Because auto-upgrades give them no reason to be at a keep/tower/camp other than to cap it.

Yes, its as simple as that. It doesnt really have to do with scouts. It has to do with players having the very basic reason for being in WvW.

When you remove that you get a game that’s playing itself.

In my opinion, anyone who thought upgrading keeps was even in the top 3 things a scout needed to do, is terrible at it.

I never said they upgraded the keeps and crap specifically. Just watching over a keep until it had for example a waypoint was an important task.

Now it doesnt matter anymore. Loose hills, its just another keep. Loose garri, well recap it and it’ll have a waypoint. Why even bother. Upgrades may take a bit longer, but unless there is someone trying to cap things everything will get upgraded. Few people bother to dolly hunt.

If they were not upgrading keeps, then what is your complaint? What were they doing there then, in your experience? If they were not upgrading keeps, then the auto upgrades shouldn’t matter.

If your not watching over a keep now, and ensuring it gets yaks in order to upgrade at double time, then in my opinion, your failing at your job.

When you talk about not worrying about losing a keep because you will simply recap it for the benefits, then you are part of the problem as I see it. Seems to me that you are promoting Ktraining out of a pure inability to adapt.

Having those keeps as long and as often as possible absolutely does matter. If that doesn’t make sense to you, then I do not know what to tell you.

Jayne.9251:

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

Catalin.5341:

I don’t really understand why scouts think auto-upgrades and no supply needed for them are a bad thing.

Because auto-upgrades give them no reason to be at a keep/tower/camp other than to cap it.

Yes, its as simple as that. It doesnt really have to do with scouts. It has to do with players having the very basic reason for being in WvW.

When you remove that you get a game that’s playing itself.

In my opinion, anyone who thought upgrading keeps was even in the top 3 things a scout needed to do, is terrible at it.

Naw, if it was used strategically, it was an essential part of being a good scout.

It could be, yes. But it was not even needed. My point was simply that any passer by could upgrade it. Sometimes players enjoyed that. Other times you had designated players who were donated money to, for the cost, and they ran a route.

In our case, we had a scout pool. A group of us that enjoyed or didn’t mind scouting. Often we simply rotated out in shifts to do other things or participate in different aspects of what was going on in the map.

@msalakka

OMG!!!

You’re very much like me.

I’m a PUG Commander for NA Tier 6.

My enemies call me BannerMan I think…I used to run a Banner Build to defend Camps.

I’m primarily a Solo Camp Capper that worked my World Server into taking larger objectives.

Previously…on the old Alpine map…Enemies that knew who I was…would spare my life on their Home Borderland map if they caught me flipping their camp. The Enemy that knew me would choose mercy.

When they did show mercy…I would quickly leave their Home Borderland to Solo Camp Cap elsewhere in return for their mercy.

It’s easier to show mercy…letting me go…instead of having to deal with a single person flipping all their camps & tapping their towers & keeps for hours.

Yes…the New Desert Borderlands sadly encourages another game play style.

I think in another thread…I mentioned that I watch more tv & do more fun things now instead of playing WvW.

I’m sure people can argue the new map is nice & the mechanics are awesome, but for me…it’s been a wet towel on the burning passion I used to have for WvW.

+1000 for me on agreeing with how you feel.

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

Catalin.5341:

I don’t really understand why scouts think auto-upgrades and no supply needed for them are a bad thing.

Because auto-upgrades give them no reason to be at a keep/tower/camp other than to cap it.

Yes, its as simple as that. It doesnt really have to do with scouts. It has to do with players having the very basic reason for being in WvW.

When you remove that you get a game that’s playing itself.

In my opinion, anyone who thought upgrading keeps was even in the top 3 things a scout needed to do, is terrible at it.

I never said they upgraded the keeps and crap specifically. Just watching over a keep until it had for example a waypoint was an important task.

Now it doesnt matter anymore. Loose hills, its just another keep. Loose garri, well recap it and it’ll have a waypoint. Why even bother. Upgrades may take a bit longer, but unless there is someone trying to cap things everything will get upgraded. Few people bother to dolly hunt.

If they were not upgrading keeps, then what is your complaint? What were they doing there then, in your experience? If they were not upgrading keeps, then the auto upgrades shouldn’t matter.

If your not watching over a keep now, and ensuring it gets yaks in order to upgrade at double time, then in my opinion, your failing at your job.

When you talk about not worrying about losing a keep because you will simply recap it for the benefits, then you are part of the problem as I see it. Seems to me that you are promoting Ktraining out of a pure inability to adapt.

Having those keeps as long and as often as possible absolutely does matter. If that doesn’t make sense to you, then I do not know what to tell you.

Jayne.9251:

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

Catalin.5341:

I don’t really understand why scouts think auto-upgrades and no supply needed for them are a bad thing.

Because auto-upgrades give them no reason to be at a keep/tower/camp other than to cap it.

Yes, its as simple as that. It doesnt really have to do with scouts. It has to do with players having the very basic reason for being in WvW.

When you remove that you get a game that’s playing itself.

In my opinion, anyone who thought upgrading keeps was even in the top 3 things a scout needed to do, is terrible at it.

Naw, if it was used strategically, it was an essential part of being a good scout.

It could be, yes. But it was not even needed. My point was simply that any passer by could upgrade it. Sometimes players enjoyed that. Other times you had designated players who were donated money to, for the cost, and they ran a route.

In our case, we had a scout pool. A group of us that enjoyed or didn’t mind scouting. Often we simply rotated out in shifts to do other things or participate in different aspects of what was going on in the map.

The new borderlands working out that well for you too eh?

I know, i know conpletely out of context. But you are in a thread about how scouting was killed by the new bl, saying that it wasnt, or shouldnt be. Yet writing about your own scouting groups in the past tense like they no longer exsist. Funny right?

coglin.1867:

When you talk about not worrying about losing a keep because you will simply recap it for the benefits, then you are part of the problem as I see it. Seems to me that you are promoting Ktraining out of a pure inability to adapt.

Inability to adapt to what? The new completely kitten backwards design that plays on basic human psychology and make players not feel needed as opposed to an upgrade system that encouraged player involvement?

Yeah you are right. I may just be a little unable to adapt to that.

@Dawdler

chuckles

Not picking sides. Just making an observation that popped in my head.

It’s like the IBM & Apple commercials.

Both companies produces highly technical products, but one just seemed cooler.

The New Desert Map…in my opinion…could be technically superior…but it just doesn’t feel right.

Actually…this is more like the Beta vs. VHS format for video tape.

Beta format from the technical aspect…I think was better…plus it was smaller.

But, VHS format won in the end.

Sorry for getting off topic…thought that was entertaining.

Diku

p.s.
Oh forgot…people aren’t logical…and they go with what is cool or just feels right.

VHS I think won because it seemed to give you more quantity (size) for your money.

If you don’t give the consumer what they want…they’ll eventually go find their fix somewhere else.

Wryscher.1432:

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

Catalin.5341:

I don’t really understand why scouts think auto-upgrades and no supply needed for them are a bad thing.

Because auto-upgrades give them no reason to be at a keep/tower/camp other than to cap it.

Yes, its as simple as that. It doesnt really have to do with scouts. It has to do with players having the very basic reason for being in WvW.

When you remove that you get a game that’s playing itself.

In my opinion, anyone who thought upgrading keeps was even in the top 3 things a scout needed to do, is terrible at it.

I never said they upgraded the keeps and crap specifically. Just watching over a keep until it had for example a waypoint was an important task.

Now it doesnt matter anymore. Loose hills, its just another keep. Loose garri, well recap it and it’ll have a waypoint. Why even bother. Upgrades may take a bit longer, but unless there is someone trying to cap things everything will get upgraded. Few people bother to dolly hunt.

If they were not upgrading keeps, then what is your complaint? What were they doing there then, in your experience? If they were not upgrading keeps, then the auto upgrades shouldn’t matter.

If your not watching over a keep now, and ensuring it gets yaks in order to upgrade at double time, then in my opinion, your failing at your job.

When you talk about not worrying about losing a keep because you will simply recap it for the benefits, then you are part of the problem as I see it. Seems to me that you are promoting Ktraining out of a pure inability to adapt.

Having those keeps as long and as often as possible absolutely does matter. If that doesn’t make sense to you, then I do not know what to tell you.

Jayne.9251:

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

Catalin.5341:

I don’t really understand why scouts think auto-upgrades and no supply needed for them are a bad thing.

Because auto-upgrades give them no reason to be at a keep/tower/camp other than to cap it.

Yes, its as simple as that. It doesnt really have to do with scouts. It has to do with players having the very basic reason for being in WvW.

When you remove that you get a game that’s playing itself.

In my opinion, anyone who thought upgrading keeps was even in the top 3 things a scout needed to do, is terrible at it.

Naw, if it was used strategically, it was an essential part of being a good scout.

It could be, yes. But it was not even needed. My point was simply that any passer by could upgrade it. Sometimes players enjoyed that. Other times you had designated players who were donated money to, for the cost, and they ran a route.

In our case, we had a scout pool. A group of us that enjoyed or didn’t mind scouting. Often we simply rotated out in shifts to do other things or participate in different aspects of what was going on in the map.

The new borderlands working out that well for you too eh?

I know, i know conpletely out of context. But you are in a thread about how scouting was killed by the new bl, saying that it wasnt, or shouldnt be. Yet writing about your own scouting groups in the past tense like they no longer exsist. Funny right?

Well since you asked, yes, they exist. Yup you took it out of context.
We are rather enjoying the influx of players. Alot of old friends and new alike comming in to the game. While some are crying, making knee her reactions, and showing thier inability to adapt to the very changed they clamored for, My guild had adapted and grown. It has been really fun.

Dawdler.8521:

coglin.1867:

When you talk about not worrying about losing a keep because you will simply recap it for the benefits, then you are part of the problem as I see it. Seems to me that you are promoting Ktraining out of a pure inability to adapt.

Inability to adapt to what? The new completely kitten backwards design that plays on basic human psychology and make players not feel needed as opposed to an upgrade system that encouraged player involvement?

Yeah you are right. I may just be a little unable to adapt to that.

I am glad you agree I am right, thank you. But what exactly was your complaint here? Your wording is so obscure and non specific. Can you conceptualize and explain better?

If your unhappy with the new maps, why do you have 37 post in the earlier threads demanding that we needed new maps?

coglin.1867:

If your unhappy with the new maps, why do you have 37 post in the earlier threads demanding that we needed new maps?

Not sure how you can use ‘wanting new maps’ against people. Yes, players wanted new maps. It’s not the players fault that Anet isn’t involved enough with it’s WvW player base to deliver a WvW map that players would like.

I’ve also saved a lot of money on gems that I’m no longer buying – it’s great! I log in for the daily login reward, look at the prices of some items I’m hoarding, and then log out! I used to play GW2 on the weekend for 10+ hours, and so far I’ve played 5 minutes!

What’s also sad is that I don’t even know what to do on the weekend anymore. I used to play GW2. Now I just sleep.

Couldnt describe it better. It`s sad, its annoying and its rly dissappointing. New BL`s killed small groups/night shifters/roaming. They coul`ve changed BLs or add some new ones, but cmon… Completly removing old ones? Thats totally sux. Something have been lost on the pursuit for freshness and changes. Its not just another weekly complaining of haters, no its something more now, something that may actually kill WvW and possibly whole game now. This isnt right. Dont know if u guys follow moods in game, but WvW will die shortly if u wont do something about it.

Roamer.

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

coglin.1867:

When you talk about not worrying about losing a keep because you will simply recap it for the benefits, then you are part of the problem as I see it. Seems to me that you are promoting Ktraining out of a pure inability to adapt.

Inability to adapt to what? The new completely kitten backwards design that plays on basic human psychology and make players not feel needed as opposed to an upgrade system that encouraged player involvement?

Yeah you are right. I may just be a little unable to adapt to that.

I am glad you agree I am right, thank you. But what exactly was your complaint here? Your wording is so obscure and non specific. Can you conceptualize and explain better?

If your unhappy with the new maps, why do you have 37 post in the earlier threads demanding that we needed new maps?

While I am incredibly curious how you managed to rummage through my 68 pages of posted posts on this forum in order to find 37 specific posts in threads about a very specific topic. I tried to browse through the history but hell if I can find anything.

Well, except one on what the future of WvW is, posted in may:

“A new map everyone will probably dislike, traits thats totally gonna mess up the balance and lag thats never going to be solved.

Oh and the same stale matchups.

Sorry."

I lol at myself :p

But I digress. I’m afraid I cant explain any better for you, because it wouldnt help.

Offair.2563:

^ Manual upgrades – running dolyaks – keeping camps safe/reflip them, THAT generated fights for roamers. And that is all gone now with this auto pilot.

This. The old love is gone in these new layered pve maps, devs claim to listen yet this very basic feature that makes magic in wvw is taken out.

And what an excellent well written post OP. Im just glad EB isnt all that changed, as that is the map Ive always stayed in. The stealth fountain is redicilous though.

coglin.1867:

Dawdler.8521:

coglin.1867:

When you talk about not worrying about losing a keep because you will simply recap it for the benefits, then you are part of the problem as I see it. Seems to me that you are promoting Ktraining out of a pure inability to adapt.

Inability to adapt to what? The new completely kitten backwards design that plays on basic human psychology and make players not feel needed as opposed to an upgrade system that encouraged player involvement?

Yeah you are right. I may just be a little unable to adapt to that.

If your unhappy with the new maps, why do you have 37 post in the earlier threads demanding that we needed new maps?

Come on now, you are usually much better at this. If this is the best you can come up with you are not even trying.

nacario.9417:

Offair.2563:

^ Manual upgrades – running dolyaks – keeping camps safe/reflip them, THAT generated fights for roamers. And that is all gone now with this auto pilot.

This. The old love is gone in these new layered pve maps, devs claim to listen yet this very basic feature that makes magic in wvw is taken out.

And what an excellent well written post OP. Im just glad EB isnt all that changed, as that is the map Ive always stayed in. The stealth fountain is redicilous though.

All of that still exist when I play.

I mean you get 3 points toward PPT for each yak that gets into your keep. You get 3 points for each yak killed. You get PPT points for killing sentry. By having the sentry’s on your side, they inform your server of nearby enemies. So one and so forth. Roamers offer plenty of value to their servers. Roaming has great value for those that I know.

I’m definitely not happy with many of the changes ANet has made with HoT in the WvW context, especially the BL maps themselves, but I do feel the so-called auto-upgrading is one of the good things they have done.

Specifically the idea that there is nothing for roamers to do…this is hugely untrue. For starters, the importance of yaks. Some feel the fact that upgrades are now based on a timer makes protecting or killing yaks pointless, but I feel the opposite is true. Every yak safely escorted to it’s destination reduces the upgrade timer by 5 minutes. This may seem like a minor thing, but when you consider the rate at which yaks leave, and the fact that each assets gets 2 or 4 yaks, it has an impact fairly quickly.

Look at it this way. We’ve gone from a system where killing yaks was only important if the enemy was actively using their supply to queue upgrades, and the right upgrades on top of that, to one where killing yaks is the only thing you can do to slow or stop inevitable upgrades…believe me, the person who makes sure those yaks get in to complete and upgrade and repair walls or gates actively being attacked, or who kills yaks and prevents on from being completely and undoing your hard work, is a very import and appreciated person indeed.

Camps are also more important for roamers to stay on top of. Preventing upgrades is something roamers had far less control over in the past – now, not only can they contribute but they can be the deciding factor. With travel time across the map generally being longer, those roaming players are vital for getting the little things done when they need to be done.

The number of those things has increased. Sentries have real tactical value now, both in terms of their impact on yaks/upgrades and intel. Shrines are extremely important to stay on top of, especially on the western side of the map – many a failed assault or defense has ultimately come down to a timely shrine flip. Then we have the renewed focus on defense. Defending a fixed position may not seem like something which falls in the roaming category, but actively building and ticking siege, patrolling around the various assets with their greater size making them more difficult to sentry…these are important, and again because of the greater travel time involved, are best done by people in the field, not a zerg deploying from spawn.

I find there is a lot wrong with HoT when it comes to WvW, but auto-upgrades and it’s impact on roaming is not one of those things in my opinion.

Dawdler.8521:

Catalin.5341:

I don’t really understand why scouts think auto-upgrades and no supply needed for them are a bad thing.

Because auto-upgrades give them no reason to be at a keep/tower/camp other than to cap it.

Yes, its as simple as that. It doesnt really have to do with scouts. It has to do with players having the very basic reason for being in WvW.

When you remove that you get a game that’s playing itself.

This was exactly my reason behind my post pleading with the devs to remove auto-upgrades. It has ruined the game for me, now I am no longer needed. After almost 3 yrs of game play…

I wasnt upgradeing much in Borders but I roamed there several hours daily, mostly Solo to look for kills and I took thousands of Camp. I like the “spotted” feature of Sentry’s now and heres the sad part: Thats about ALL I like with the new WvW…

I agree with #op and sadly Iv also now after 7k+ hours starting to find other things to do instead of login on… sometimes it goes so far I ONLY login to get my daily reward, now that is sad.

Yet Fractals complain got insta-Fix, Lving story comming to the Lore hungry, raids for pve and leaderboards and new tourneys for sPvP…

for WvW ? “yea we seen a decline in the new borders and we are looking into the issue” …really anet ?