Guild Wars 2

Turk.5460:

I’ve still yet to see a pro-condi argument that makes sense as to why Dire gear should continue to surpass Soldier’s gear in effectiveness tenfold – when they have the exact same amount of added defensive stats.

I used ranger shortbow autoattack + poison volley against the 1 million hp golem (25 might, fury, quickness as I did not want to spend too much time at the golem) and soldier gear actually slightly outperformed dire gear.

No damage modifiers or condition duration were used. Pet was on passive. Fury favors soldiers but it is very easy to obtain on most power builds so I think that is realistic. I was positioned behind the golem to get the increased condition duration on poison valley and the additional bleeding on the auto attack.

i tried soldiers and sentinel armor. You do no damage as a power spec even though you are pretty tanky.

You need the crit chance and crit modifier to be very deadly damage dealer but then you also need defensive traits and skills to not die.

Condition is very good damage because it’s spammable on certain classes and it only needs 1 stat to be damage effective (you can use expertise but not really needed) and then you can stack defense stats traits skills and food utility.

People are just following a meta of what’s strongest to win. That is normal every day min maxing.

Erzian.5218:

Turk.5460:

I’ve still yet to see a pro-condi argument that makes sense as to why Dire gear should continue to surpass Soldier’s gear in effectiveness tenfold – when they have the exact same amount of added defensive stats.

I used ranger shortbow autoattack + poison volley against the 1 million hp golem (25 might, fury, quickness as I did not want to spend too much time at the golem) and soldier gear actually slightly outperformed dire gear.

No damage modifiers or condition duration were used. Pet was on passive. Fury favors soldiers but it is very easy to obtain on most power builds so I think that is realistic. I was position behind the golem to get the increased condition duration on poison valley and the additional bleeding on the auto attack.

might fury quickness are all power damage modifiers and short bow uses some condition and some power damage.

Also positioning behind the golem for condition damage modifier and bleeding.

Generally condition does more damage than power but different weapons have different scaling.

An example is engineer hammer and rifle. It scales awful with power but scales good with condition. Also i am not familiar with ranger but i thought long bow is power and short bow is condition ?

right now my server is passing to tier 2 and all we face is condi zergs.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

there is a stat intended to greatly improve your survivability against conditions [which skipped your armor] and it is vitality.

and actually it works just as you said – if you get only toughness you will be laughting at power builds, but die really quickly to conditions, and if you stack up on alot of vitality with no toughtness you will be abel to sane level of conditions for long enought to grab next heal/condi cleanse, kill the guy spamming at you… but die very fast to power build due to their higher spike against targets without enought toughness.

all working as intended….

as long as the amount of conditions being dished out stays within specific parameters – and this should be area to work on balancing them…..

This.

bigchunk.5190:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

there is a stat intended to greatly improve your survivability against conditions [which skipped your armor] and it is vitality.

and actually it works just as you said – if you get only toughness you will be laughting at power builds, but die really quickly to conditions, and if you stack up on alot of vitality with no toughtness you will be abel to sane level of conditions for long enought to grab next heal/condi cleanse, kill the guy spamming at you… but die very fast to power build due to their higher spike against targets without enought toughness.

all working as intended….

as long as the amount of conditions being dished out stays within specific parameters – and this should be area to work on balancing them…..

This.

This assume no player can stack condi fast enough before the heal/cleanse is on cd again.

But guess what – certain condi classes can kill you 3 times over with continous, neverending application of 4+ condi types

And thats just a single necro.

Anthony.7630:

might fury quickness are all power damage modifiers and short bow uses some condition and some power damage.

Also positioning behind the golem for condition damage modifier and bleeding.

Generally condition does more damage than power but different weapons have different scaling.

An example is engineer hammer and rifle. It scales awful with power but scales good with condition. Also i am not familiar with ranger but i thought long bow is power and short bow is condition ?

Might and quickness give the same bonus to power and condition. Fury favors power, but sb+permanently standing behind the target should favor condition builds. Point is, dire gear itself is not better than soldier but about the same or slightly worse even. One thing that broke the symetry was food, which increased the damage by more than 30%.

The claim that dire deals more damage than soldier gear in general is wrong though. It is some made up non-sense supposed to prove something.
It is just tiresome to see people make claims about how conditios are cheap and overpowered because of something they have actually never tested and are clueless about. There are certainly broken things concerning specific condition builds (e.g. The synergy between the reaper trait and reaper runes) but the same is true for some power builds.
Also from my experience in eu tier 1, power is far more prevalent than condition. The only mode that is dominated by condition builds is pve and that is because mobs do not walk out of damage fields aka firefields and caltrops.

Turk.5460:

I’ve still yet to see a pro-condi argument that makes sense as to why Dire gear should continue to surpass Soldier’s gear in effectiveness tenfold – when they have the exact same amount of added defensive stats.

Or is it denial? So, anyone here who thinks everything is hunky dory and condi is fine, please answer this extremely simple question:

“Can someone in Soldier’s gear be as effective in dps as someone in Dire gear in small scale combat? (small scale being under 10 players)”

—The reason I didn’t include zerg v zerg is to deter answers from focusing only on that subject, which has never failed to skirt the initial question and never give a straight answer.

Ah, but that’s a trick question. In this case, they’re both useless.

jul.7602:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Every successful guild on BG that we (JQ) face is using a power meta.

They use a coordinated Revenant CoR / Phase Smash bomb.

We should be discussing how 5+ people being instantly downed by CoR from 1200 range is bad for the game.

In addition to the fact the meta is no longer condi I will add the condi builds were damaged quite badly by the food nerf.

No. Just no. There hasn’t been a power meta since the SoI nerf. Every credible guild is running condition spike. Condi revs are overall phasing out pure power revs.

Heh… wish it were so. I’m also on BG and whenever I bring my Condi Rev I’m getting side long glances from the Tag *cough*GOF*cough* and eventually a comment drops that they really need power Revs for the CoR and other hammer skills because dps is too low.

Fairly sure Renegade elite will finally convince the Doubting Nancys out there though that Condi is better.

Most people say Dire/Trailblazer is stronger because those builds can actually kill something while being tanky.

If you single out the damage without taking into account runes/sigils you would end up with very low damage output on a condition build. Runes/sigils do play a big role in condition damage oriented build. If you try to compare this to sigil of air/fire DPS, you need to remember that you need high crit rate to even come close in term of DPS… thus you won’t be able to pull those damage on a tanky set such as Soldier gear.

There is a reason why the old roamers and duelers were banning such build from Fight clubs in Obsidian Sanctum (the golden age of roaming and small scale fights).

Hell, roamers even pointed out how brainded such builds were by shifting the meta condition build towards Firework dire condi thief. Sadly Anet response was to simply ban Firework from WvW instead of correcting how braindead such builds were…We were ‘’griefing others’’ and thus Firework got banned… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

Agreed that good players would not die to such a build, but it still pointed out how high the dmg can get even without using a weapon as a condition user.

Famine.7915:

Turk.5460:

I’ve still yet to see a pro-condi argument that makes sense as to why Dire gear should continue to surpass Soldier’s gear in effectiveness tenfold – when they have the exact same amount of added defensive stats.

Or is it denial? So, anyone here who thinks everything is hunky dory and condi is fine, please answer this extremely simple question:

“Can someone in Soldier’s gear be as effective in dps as someone in Dire gear in small scale combat? (small scale being under 10 players)”

—The reason I didn’t include zerg v zerg is to deter answers from focusing only on that subject, which has never failed to skirt the initial question and never give a straight answer.

Ah, but that’s a trick question. In this case, they’re both useless.

Not a trick question – it is a simple yes or no question, and like all others before you, you are skirting the question as I even mentioned happens in my post. Shocker. Please answer the question with a yes or a no – or don’t reply to my post at all, thanks.

DeceiverX.8361:

mesmer, thief, necro – which have a solid number of active defenses to keep them alive

DeceiverX.8361:

necro – which have a solid number of active defenses to keep them alive

DeceiverX.8361:

necro – solid number of active defenses

Erzian.5218:

I used ranger shortbow autoattack + poison volley against the 1 million hp golem (25 might, fury, quickness as I did not want to spend too much time at the golem) and soldier gear actually slightly outperformed dire gear.

This is anecdotal first of all. Video proof is something that’s need to prove a statement like this fact. I can just as easily say I did the same thing and the result was condition damage was stronger. There is so many other nit picks I could make, but ultimately your position is rendered moot…

Erzian.5218:

No damage modifiers or condition duration were used.

Why moot? The quote right above.

Power gets a 50% modifier at base, and then you increase crit chance by 20% using fury.

That right there is an effective 10% modifier. Equal to having a sigil of malice in discrepancy. It’s nothing huge, but you example doesn’t paint the reality of the picture.

A fair comparison is the extremely optimized builds.

For example the following condi build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRApX5MWOVm0AOYB1M6oE71ffeA-TFiAQBJS/gHOIAA4JAsk9H8oyvodCAipSwTp+DpAgZnG-w

Will pump out way more damage than something like:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAS8OW0UI2xcm2YXwE2w2FEgGA-TFCBQBA4KAoHdDaU5xB3fwkKBxwDBwSq/kRlYkCIixAA-w

Despite the fact that power build has even more stats in offense.

Turk.5460:

Famine.7915:

Turk.5460:

I’ve still yet to see a pro-condi argument that makes sense as to why Dire gear should continue to surpass Soldier’s gear in effectiveness tenfold – when they have the exact same amount of added defensive stats.

Or is it denial? So, anyone here who thinks everything is hunky dory and condi is fine, please answer this extremely simple question:

“Can someone in Soldier’s gear be as effective in dps as someone in Dire gear in small scale combat? (small scale being under 10 players)”

—The reason I didn’t include zerg v zerg is to deter answers from focusing only on that subject, which has never failed to skirt the initial question and never give a straight answer.

Ah, but that’s a trick question. In this case, they’re both useless.

Not a trick question – it is a simple yes or no question, and like all others before you, you are skirting the question as I even mentioned happens in my post. Shocker. Please answer the question with a yes or a no – or don’t reply to my post at all, thanks.

I will dumb it down for you. “No” to both. They will have a level of damage and effectiveness that will be negligible in a small scale fight. As far as I am concerned, their damage may as well be nothing.

Don’t make such quick whiney replies. My answer was as direct as it needed to be. They are both useless.

Eval.2371:

For example the following condi build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRApX5MWOVm0AOYB1M6oE71ffeA-TFiAQBJS/gHOIAA4JAsk9H8oyvodCAipSwTp+DpAgZnG-w

Will pump out way more damage than something like:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAS8OW0UI2xcm2YXwE2w2FEgGA-TFCBQBA4KAoHdDaU5xB3fwkKBxwDBwSq/kRlYkCIixAA-w

Despite the fact that power build has even more stats in offense.

Did you actually test it? Can you provide some numbers? No? What a surprise …

Btw, of course some dire builds will deal more dps (which is irrelevant in actual pvp combat anyways, otherwise everyone would run pve dps builds, but whatever) than certain soldier builds, but for some classes/builds it can be the other way arround. So the general statement that dire grants more dmg/dps than soldier is simply wrong. It always a matter of the build and situation, not just gear or condis in general, but that’s something, many don’t seem to understand.

Frozen.1347:

Eval.2371:

For example the following condi build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRApX5MWOVm0AOYB1M6oE71ffeA-TFiAQBJS/gHOIAA4JAsk9H8oyvodCAipSwTp+DpAgZnG-w

Will pump out way more damage than something like:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAS8OW0UI2xcm2YXwE2w2FEgGA-TFCBQBA4KAoHdDaU5xB3fwkKBxwDBwSq/kRlYkCIixAA-w

Despite the fact that power build has even more stats in offense.

Did you actually test it? Can you provide some numbers? No? What a surprise …

Actually I’ve run both builds. I don’t have any video content of either. So there is ultimately nothing I can prove other than tell you to run the builds your self or fight you with them. I would lean heavily to the condi build being the stronger of the two from experience.

However, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, I can arrange a transfer and bring a dire thief, ranger or rev to face your choice of soldiers of build. Loser eats my transfer costs and settles which is objectively superior in wvw. I am generally pretty mediocre as a player so the fight should be pretty even. If you are “good” at the game it would objectively prove my point further.

If you feel that confident about it send me a mail in game with your sever and date/ time . I can stream/upload the whole thing to youtube.

Zoltreez.6435:

DeceiverX.8361:

mesmer, thief, necro – which have a solid number of active defenses to keep them alive

DeceiverX.8361:

necro – which have a solid number of active defenses to keep them alive

DeceiverX.8361:

necro – solid number of active defenses

Shroud is a potent defensive tool when paired with high toughness and vitality as incoming damage to shroud health is halved and it scales on vitality. It also lacks a cast which means you can activate it even while CC-locked, which most other builds can’t do.

You also have on-demand protection/DR and big defensive gains from Plague Form. I’m sorry but necro/reaper has some great defensive tools.

Shroud is weak because the damage is terrible for power builds/core and it can’t sustain it long enough as a form of damage when building around it. This is mostly an issue with VP/SoS and the decay rate.

I played a ton of glass cannon berserker reaper until last patch and coming from a thief the durability is absolutely insane. I could regularly hold off four or five glass cannon builds for several seconds at a time and usually dive blobs and not die so long as I didn’t dive alone/get focused by all 30 people.

The necro community saying necro doesn’t have good defense are either:
Bad,

and/or

Using Plague Signet into a small-scale condi meta and dying from other peoples’ conditions whilst not cleansing them or before they can generate LF,

and/or

Getting CC-locked by most meta builds while not running stability and calling it a weakness of their sustain instead of rightfully just asking for better stability access,

and/or

Are not running any LF generation/burst LF generation in their builds and wonder why they can’t stay in shroud for a while or why it’s so hard to generate LF when all they have is staff auto and Soul Marks.

Frozen.1347:

Eval.2371:

For example the following condi build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRApX5MWOVm0AOYB1M6oE71ffeA-TFiAQBJS/gHOIAA4JAsk9H8oyvodCAipSwTp+DpAgZnG-w

Will pump out way more damage than something like:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAS8OW0UI2xcm2YXwE2w2FEgGA-TFCBQBA4KAoHdDaU5xB3fwkKBxwDBwSq/kRlYkCIixAA-w

Despite the fact that power build has even more stats in offense.

Did you actually test it? Can you provide some numbers? No? What a surprise …

Btw, of course some dire builds will deal more dps (which is irrelevant in actual pvp combat anyways, otherwise everyone would run pve dps builds, but whatever) than certain soldier builds, but for some classes/builds it can be the other way arround. So the general statement that dire grants more dmg/dps than soldier is simply wrong. It always a matter of the build and situation, not just gear or condis in general, but that’s something, many don’t seem to understand.

Funny thing is he has since those are two builds he runs/ ran on two different Revs…

Famine.7915:

Turk.5460:

Famine.7915:

Turk.5460:

I’ve still yet to see a pro-condi argument that makes sense as to why Dire gear should continue to surpass Soldier’s gear in effectiveness tenfold – when they have the exact same amount of added defensive stats.

Or is it denial? So, anyone here who thinks everything is hunky dory and condi is fine, please answer this extremely simple question:

“Can someone in Soldier’s gear be as effective in dps as someone in Dire gear in small scale combat? (small scale being under 10 players)”

—The reason I didn’t include zerg v zerg is to deter answers from focusing only on that subject, which has never failed to skirt the initial question and never give a straight answer.

Ah, but that’s a trick question. In this case, they’re both useless.

Not a trick question – it is a simple yes or no question, and like all others before you, you are skirting the question as I even mentioned happens in my post. Shocker. Please answer the question with a yes or a no – or don’t reply to my post at all, thanks.

I will dumb it down for you. “No” to both. They will have a level of damage and effectiveness that will be negligible in a small scale fight. As far as I am concerned, their damage may as well be nothing.

Don’t make such quick whiney replies. My answer was as direct as it needed to be. They are both useless.

“No to both” is not a valid answer, as I only asked one question. So this shows that your reply really only means one of two things:

-You answered “No.” Which means you believe that Soldier’s cannot perform nearly as well as Dire.
-In your comically failed attempt to belittle me, you showed that you are incapable of understanding the most simplistic yes or no question.

Regardless, you’ve only made yourself look silly, and any future responses from you will now be cast aside as uneducated opinions. Thank you for the attempt.

Eval.2371:

Why moot? The quote right above.

Power gets a 50% modifier at base, and then you increase crit chance by 20% using fury.

Fury also increases the crit. chance of the dire build which increases its damage as well. I know it is more beneficial to soldier, but I had already written that. In return, flanking/standing behind a target with ranger short bow, favors condition damage as the power damage remains exactly the same (In reality on the other hand, high or permanent fury uptime is much more likely than permanently flanking your target, which should further shift the balance in favor of soldier).
Either way, if you don´t believe me, you can test it for yourself. I am not here to convince anyone that conditions themselves or dire gear are not overpowered. I have long given up on that as there is no point in trying to convince average players who probably misplay more often than they play correctly that their perception does not reflect reality. Therefore I don´t care whether you think I am lying or you are claiming that the opposite is true.
All I am doing is pointing out faulty arguments that are presented as the ultimate truth like dire deals more damage than soldier, when one can easily find reasonable examples (= examples that do not heavily favor either side) where it does not hold true.
Fact is wvw players (especially those who only play wvw) as well as lower division/tier pvp players have always complained about conditions even when condition builds were severely underpowered, which hints at a lack of understanding of the game/skill (as the better players rarely complain about it and when they do, they are usually more specific as in build/trait/skill xy is too strong because…).

You’re delusional if you think a Necro in Soldier’s gear with traits built for power is anywhere near the damage of a Necro in Dire gear with traits built for condi. Pick any other profession, the result will be the same.

In WvW you’re not fighting a golem that stands still. Nor are you just auto attacking and using 1 additional weapon skill. Your “test” is terrible and provides zero support to your claim. Try it again using things like condi traps and weapon swapping, then let us know how you did. Please leave your PvE arguments to the PvE forums.

Turk.5460:

Famine.7915:

Turk.5460:

Famine.7915:

Turk.5460:

I’ve still yet to see a pro-condi argument that makes sense as to why Dire gear should continue to surpass Soldier’s gear in effectiveness tenfold – when they have the exact same amount of added defensive stats.

Or is it denial? So, anyone here who thinks everything is hunky dory and condi is fine, please answer this extremely simple question:

“Can someone in Soldier’s gear be as effective in dps as someone in Dire gear in small scale combat? (small scale being under 10 players)”

—The reason I didn’t include zerg v zerg is to deter answers from focusing only on that subject, which has never failed to skirt the initial question and never give a straight answer.

Ah, but that’s a trick question. In this case, they’re both useless.

Not a trick question – it is a simple yes or no question, and like all others before you, you are skirting the question as I even mentioned happens in my post. Shocker. Please answer the question with a yes or a no – or don’t reply to my post at all, thanks.

I will dumb it down for you. “No” to both. They will have a level of damage and effectiveness that will be negligible in a small scale fight. As far as I am concerned, their damage may as well be nothing.

Don’t make such quick whiney replies. My answer was as direct as it needed to be. They are both useless.

“No to both” is not a valid answer, as I only asked one question. So this shows that your reply really only means one of two things:

-You answered “No.” Which means you believe that Soldier’s cannot perform nearly as well as Dire.
-In your comically failed attempt to belittle me, you showed that you are incapable of understanding the most simplistic yes or no question.

Regardless, you’ve only made yourself look silly, and any future responses from you will now be cast aside as uneducated opinions. Thank you for the attempt.

Poor baby! Q.Q

Another whiney answer from our dear user. Why would you go about asking questions that don’t matter? Both die before they do any damage to begin with. Are you having problems with dire users? I am sure I can find a list of tips somewhere.! <3

Turk.5460:

You’re delusional if you think a Necro in Soldier’s gear with traits built for power is anywhere near the damage of a Necro in Dire gear with traits built for condi. Pick any other profession, the result will be the same.

In WvW you’re not fighting a golem that stands still. Nor are you just auto attacking and using 1 additional weapon skill. Your “test” is terrible and provides zero support to your claim. Try it again using things like condi traps and weapon swapping, then let us know how you did. Please leave your PvE arguments to the PvE forums.

Keep believing that dire is op, I am glad it helps you feel better about losing to terrible.. erm I mean op dire builds

DeceiverX.8361:

Zoltreez.6435:

DeceiverX.8361:

mesmer, thief, necro – which have a solid number of active defenses to keep them alive

DeceiverX.8361:

necro – which have a solid number of active defenses to keep them alive

DeceiverX.8361:

necro – solid number of active defenses

Shroud is a potent defensive tool when paired with high toughness and vitality as incoming damage to shroud health is halved and it scales on vitality. It also lacks a cast which means you can activate it even while CC-locked, which most other builds can’t do.

You also have on-demand protection/DR and big defensive gains from Plague Form. I’m sorry but necro/reaper has some great defensive tools.

Shroud is weak because the damage is terrible for power builds/core and it can’t sustain it long enough as a form of damage when building around it. This is mostly an issue with VP/SoS and the decay rate.

I played a ton of glass cannon berserker reaper until last patch and coming from a thief the durability is absolutely insane. I could regularly hold off four or five glass cannon builds for several seconds at a time and usually dive blobs and not die so long as I didn’t dive alone/get focused by all 30 people.

The necro community saying necro doesn’t have good defense are either:
Bad,

and/or

Using Plague Signet into a small-scale condi meta and dying from other peoples’ conditions whilst not cleansing them or before they can generate LF,

and/or

Getting CC-locked by most meta builds while not running stability and calling it a weakness of their sustain instead of rightfully just asking for better stability access,

and/or

Are not running any LF generation/burst LF generation in their builds and wonder why they can’t stay in shroud for a while or why it’s so hard to generate LF when all they have is staff auto and Soul Marks.

stop fighting bads…

im playing necro since the release of this game…

and my shroud no matter how hard i stack vitality or toughnes or both and no matter the build…

shroud againts a SINGLE burst class does not last more then a matter of seconds…

Seriously stop fighting bunkers and utterly bad players.. because it sounds like it…

a single thief or mesmer will delete your entire shroud in the opening or atleast 80% of it..

Who the hell told you inc dmg to shroud is Halved ? WUT !?

on demand protection ? you mean once in a lifetime ?that usualy instantly removed and turned into condi ? while other classes can spam their 226 bilion of boons?

and you no freaken way gonna hold off 4-5 glass canons as a necro alone… it means they were not Glass cannons… or did not know what they were doing at al…

this entire thing you just wrote is a big load of nonsense….im laughing at this nonsense you trying to say here at this point XD

Zoltreez.6435:

a single thief or mesmer will delete your entire shroud in the opening or atleast 80% of it..

I don’t think it’s really fair to mention thief here because daredevil literally hard counters necro. It’d be like if I used dragonhunter to say that thief needs more defense. That matchup is the outlier, not the norm. And condi necro kittens on power mesmer all day every day. The only way you lose is if you get 100-0’d from stealth or outplayed. And honestly, most of the time you can see them coming before they stealth and/or instant cast shroud to absorb some or all of the burst.

Zoltreez.6435:

Who the hell told you inc dmg to shroud is Halved ? WUT !?

Um. It does. Necro actually has a lot of little tricks the average player doesn’t know about. I’m not gonna sit here and spill the necro tea because I didn’t figure it out myself, but this specific information is readily available on the wiki so…

Zoltreez.6435:

on demand protection ? you mean once in a lifetime ?that usualy instantly removed and turned into condi ? while other classes can spam their 226 bilion of boons?

Spectral Armor and Spectral Wall are both super good utilities. And power builds aren’t running around corrupting those boons so that complaint feels a bit out of place here. Lack of boons is an intended weakness of the necro. No one wants a necro with ele-like boon generation and the base stats it has.

Zoltreez.6435:

and you no freaken way gonna hold off 4-5 glass canons as a necro alone…

Yeah, I find that hard to believe too. It feels like there is nothing squishier than a pure glass necro. But fortunately necro doesn’t have to be glassy to do damage.

With that said, I don’t think shroud is very strong right now because HoT emphasized defensive steroids over raw stats- and the strength of shroud is that it essentially makes necro a big stat ball. Part of me feels bad for necros because they have a hard time with things other classes don’t have to deal with, and part of me loathes them because their condi builds are extremely potent in small fights and they have had several problematic and brain dead builds over the years (pre-nerf dhuumfire, current shout builds, etc). At any rate, I think PoF will be good for necros.

Erzian.5218:

Turk.5460:

You’re delusional if you think a Necro in Soldier’s gear with traits built for power is anywhere near the damage of a Necro in Dire gear with traits built for condi. Pick any other profession, the result will be the same.

In WvW you’re not fighting a golem that stands still. Nor are you just auto attacking and using 1 additional weapon skill. Your “test” is terrible and provides zero support to your claim. Try it again using things like condi traps and weapon swapping, then let us know how you did. Please leave your PvE arguments to the PvE forums.

Keep believing that dire is op, I am glad it helps you feel better about losing to terrible.. erm I mean op dire builds

Come back when you’ve actually tried a power build that can’t stack toughness. Though you seem like that type of “path of least resistance” follower. It’s OK to be timid and afraid, you’ll get better with practice and experience! Good luck out there if you ever do decide to give it a try!

Turk.5460:

Come back when you’ve actually tried a power build that can’t stack toughness. Though you seem like that type of “path of least resistance” follower. It’s OK to be timid and afraid, you’ll get better with practice and experience! Good luck out there if you ever do decide to give it a try!

What does stacking toughness do? According to you, dire gear is what I should be worried about???

I also wonder how I made to top 20 in pvp where stacking toughness is impossible as they removed all the amulets that let you do that

DeceiverX.8361:

Shroud is a potent defensive tool when paired with high toughness and vitality as incoming damage to shroud health is halved and it scales on vitality.

getting hit isn’t active defense. active defense is block, blind, evade, invuln, even interrupts to a certain extent.

Just scrap/change Dire and Trailblazer gear (although it wouldn’t be needed with my following suggesitons) and make conditions be able to crit. Lower base condition damage. Now crit chance and crit damage are needed in order to do good damage sacrificing even more defensive stats (as it should be). Make some of the conditions punish you in different and interesting ways when you clean them off to compensate… or make the condition cleansing skills consume some of your endurance bar. There.

Turk.5460:

“Can someone in Soldier’s gear be as effective in dps as someone in Dire gear in small scale combat? (small scale being under 10 players)”

I’ve played both a Soldier and a Dire ranger in the past. I found the Soldier “somewhat effective” all of the time. I rarely dropped anyone incredibly fast, but I also rarely found myself completely useless. With the Dire ranger, I had some fights in which I dropped people quickly and other fights in which I was absolutely useless. These were all 1 v 1 fights.

Stand The Wall.6987:

DeceiverX.8361:

Shroud is a potent defensive tool when paired with high toughness and vitality as incoming damage to shroud health is halved and it scales on vitality.

getting hit isn’t active defense. active defense is block, blind, evade, invuln, even interrupts to a certain extent.

Active defense is pressing a button in time to not die.

If you react to incoming damage with zero-cast-time shroud to absorb it, that is active defense. The same exact thing as dodging.

What you’re asking for is an active defense which negates the entirety of a hit or a given set of hits. If you want those, you have a well and OH dagger on necro has a ranged AoE blind to do so with, on top of two dodge rolls to negate any major serious incoming attacks, most of which are telegraphed as it is (mesmer GS shatter combo for example).

And again: If you’re having trouble with LF, use a weapon that actually gains good LF. Every 20s on A/D + GS I fill 60% my max shroud pool from just using three different skills with no AA’s or traits or anything dying. That’s equivalent to saying a profession with a second heal that heals for 12k every 20s is weak.

Necro/Reaper is weak because it’s dependent on existing LF to get moving, and because it lacks mobility to stick to its targets (worse than ever now due to the SoS changes) while not having the means to counterplay some defensive capabilities of other professions.

Give the necro a few more aggressive tools and it immediately becomes universally good outside of PvE DPS. But like the mesmer, this can’t be made top-notch because of its class mechanic as then it’d otherwise be very overpowered mathematically.

The strong builds at this point are a good mix since the food nerf.

• DH has both strong power and fire builds. (Strongest class right now IMO)
• Warrior has a couple very strong power builds and a solid hybrid build
• Thieves have both.
• Necro condi is obscene and they have multiple health bars but they lack mobility so it mostly balances out.
• Mesmer has both.
• Rev has options in both and is very strong in the right hands.
• Tempest is best served bunker/support as is Engi.
• Ranger condi seems weak to me but they are really annoying when they are in a pack hitting with the pew-pew.

At the end of the day given what is working in the meta it is really hard to call condi the be all end all like it was a few months ago. Players have adapted, skills have been adjusted, condi food took an arrow to the knee. It all adds up to a fairly balanced meta compared to months ago IMO. I get blown up by power as much as condi these days.

Turk.5460:

Famine.7915:

Turk.5460:

Famine.7915:

No point explaining. This guy is just a watered down Noc. XD

I’m sorry I hurt your feelings so bad <;(

Once again, the joke just flew right over your head. :/

If it was even a joke, and a poor one at that, it was the only one you’ve posted I’ve replied to…soooooo…not sure where this “Once again” is coming from. You’re continuing to make a fool out of yourself, you should probably stop while you’re behind. O_O

I already know people got the first one. :/

With the upcoming expantion it’s going to be even more condi.

What we have is a few devs that brainstorms what they think is fun and unexpected skills for new classes. And armor sets to go with it. And the only thing they can come up with is to combine condi skills. So expect everyone to run condi builds in the future.

It’s sad though, we had so much fun before this condi meta crap.

I would say better revert back how condis works like used to be and the damage as well

Poison stacking duration
Burn stacking duration
Confusion only damaging you while using skills

Every kind of condis have its own purpose. While right now everything stacking, bleed really underpowered than other condis.

Or maybe how about if we mixed both used to and current condi system. Eg 1 person can only stacking a stack of burn stacking on duration, and you need 2 person or more cast burn to increase tick per damage