Guild Wars 2

Lord Kuru.3685:

Teon.5168:

Lord Kuru.3685:

I’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of non-desert haters are a very very vocal minority of the overall population. The majority of the overall population already quit because of desert, and a majority of what’s left will quit when it returns.

I see what you did, there.

Curious as to where you’re getting your “majority quit or will quit” numbers, though, as Anet has never released any sort of population numbers. Ever.

I know, it’s a small thing.

If you played before HoT and then after, you know the majority of players quit WvW… I’d estimate 70%.

I have played since a month after initial release. Sorry, but I don’t see what you do. Sure, some players left…..that’s why they linked servers. But 70%???? Well, I guess you might as well go for broke when you’re pulling numbers out of thin air.

Teon.5168:

morrolan.9608:

Loosmaster.8263:

Option 5 was left out, No DBL at all. How much would the numbers change if it was there?

Edit: Option 4 could have counted to that result, lol.

Would have thought they would have given the last option then no vote show the result. If neither option reaches 75% then clearly the ABL will remain and there won’t even be a rotation.

How do you figure that? Anet already said there would be a rotation. The poll is just giving us some options for that rotation.

Rotation is an option, if it doesn’t reach 75% then what? IMO if they rotate the DBL in for 3 months the mode is dead.

morrolan.9608:

Teon.5168:

morrolan.9608:

Loosmaster.8263:

Option 5 was left out, No DBL at all. How much would the numbers change if it was there?

Edit: Option 4 could have counted to that result, lol.

Would have thought they would have given the last option then no vote show the result. If neither option reaches 75% then clearly the ABL will remain and there won’t even be a rotation.

How do you figure that? Anet already said there would be a rotation. The poll is just giving us some options for that rotation.

Rotation is an option, if it doesn’t reach 75% then what? IMO if they rotate the DBL in for 3 months the mode is dead.

Yup, I see that too. Not the dead part, but rotating in the dbls for an even amount of time as the abls.

Better vote for the mixed bls option if you don’t want to see all dbls for huge chunks of time.

Despite dramatic recent improvements in communication from Tyler and the WvW team, there is a conspicuous silence around the lack of a “No DBL” option.

Don’t fall back into old habits guys. Your communication was good, don’t let it slip.

Be accountable for your decisions and explain why the players can’t choose to scrap DBL entirely if the majority (75%+) vote for it.

DBL is a sunk cost, remove the emotional attachment to it and let players decide.

The current options are designed to achieve your agenda of reinstating DBL while presenting it as a “player driven choice”.

dank.3680:

Looks like your *opinion isn’t the popular one so far…

51.4% Yes 1: Simultaneous Borderlands is a superior option

27.2% No: Rotating borderlands is a superior option

13.7% Yes 2: Simultaneous Borderlands is a superior option

7.7% Don’t count my vote, just show me the current results.

In case you can’t do math, that’s 65.1% in favor of having at least one DBL at all times.

Thats because those of us that want the desert bls to never return have to choose the option to have it in rotation on one map. Its either have one map to avoid in every match, or avoid all 3 bl’s for one entire rotation. This is a horrible choice and the option to scrap the new map should’ve been in the poll.

Cel

So far it thus seems that no one has any issues with getting 2 different borders simultaneously. I personally like the suggestion to (in the future) see a 3rd border added so all three homes are different.

Again lest cut the “i do not want any dessertborderland at all” posts here, and discuss if there would be any real issue (balance wise) with (for now) having 1 server on a different borderland then the other 2.

The poll was flawed. I voted for alternating between the two borderlands, despite NOT wanting to see Desert BL again. I think giving different home borderlands is even worse, because it gives significant advantage to one side.

The majority (but not all) wants just Alpine. Why wasn’t that an option in the poll?

I am afraid Arenanet will do the same mistake again and lose players.

In the 5/31 poll Anet asked WvW players if we want desert and alpine borderland maps to be available simultaneously, or alternatively if we want just desert or alpine to be available one at a time and rotated every 3 months.

The problem is that Anet has already decided by default. They said that the maps will be rotated every 3 months unless a 75 percent majority vote to change that presumption. Not a simply majority, not even a super majority, but 75 percent.

I’m a big fan of Tyler and the new democratic approach Anet is taking, but don’t let this polling turn into joke. If Anet picks a default outcome before we even vote, and we need a 75 percent majority to overcome that presumption, then polling becomes a farce.

With respect,

Yes as I’ve said in another thread I actually wonder what happens if the rotation option doesn’t get 75%? If it is the default then it should be stated as such.

Agreed. But I think you fail to take into account that ANet listens to their Marketing department first (by now, God knows why), and to that new Tyler dude next (or somewhere along the line). ANet Marketing wants to sell HoT (duh). HoT was marketed with DBL as part of it. If they admit DBL is crap (which it is), they admit they failed to deliver another part of HoT (which already lacks too much). If they give at least one choice that doesn’t include DBL, they admit that there is an overwhelming majority of players that hate it that much. So they find themselves having to pretend that’s not the case.
/crazyconspiracy <3

To the DBL lovers: No, we don’t love ABL. No, we don’t take pleasure watching you suffer. It’s just that we can’t stand DBL.

The poll is flawed in the sense that the majority of people generally do not like the DBL at all. They think it’s a bad map for WvW play, even though it was improved slightly since its creation. The reasons why it’s bad from a WvW perspective are well documented and without wholesale changes to the map which would essentially change it into a completely new map entirely, it will never be fit for the purpose for which it is intended.

The issue with this poll is it creates a situation whereby the majority of people who dislike the DBL map, when not given an option for it to not be included entirely, will inevitably pick the option which involves the least amount of DBL possible. A lot of people, therefore, will not pick the rotation option as that would involve 3 months of play exclusively on the DBL map. This is the only reason why I picked the option for mixed BLs, with 2 ABL maps and 1 DBL map: because I want the least amount of DBL, whilst always having an ABL map to play on.

The problem with this is, I do not necessarily think mixing maps in the same matchup is a good idea. If you care about score and having at least the chance of a balanced match, it’s terrible actually. I can envisage the server who draws the DBL having a disadvantage as there’s less incentive for people to defend the towers, they take longer to get to and take back and probably less people (and commanders) on the server willing to port to the DBL and play there in the first place. This could work both ways though as the servers who get the ABL will probably be continually pressured on their home borderlands as there will be lots of people looking to play an ABL map, whilst there could be vastly fewer people pressuring the home BL of the server with the desert map simply because it’s an undesirable map to play for most.

So yeah. I don’t even agree with the option on the poll that I actually chose. I don’t care personally as I don’t care about the match score and play the game mostly for fights on the ABLs, so my choice is conducive to allowing me to have continued access to ABLs without having to wait 3 months. This might not be the healthiest option for the WvW game-mode taken as a whole, however, and it concerns me that this particular poll is so flawed in that sense.

It might be flawed but at least they are asking for opinions in an easy and quick manner that takes you maybe 30s to do so everyone can do it. Additionally it does give them more data about what people prefer and how to tailor a significant part of their end game to the player base.

apharma.3741:

It might be flawed but at least they are asking for opinions in an easy and quick manner that takes you maybe 30s to do so everyone can do it. Additionally it does give them more data about what people prefer and how to tailor a significant part of their end game to the player base.

No it doesn’t “…give them more data about what people prefer…” since they didn’t have these two other questions:

- No Alpine BLs at all
- No Desert BLs at all

Then the poll is inclusive. The way they’ve done it, there’s no way to know what people really want.

Though, in a micro-cosmic way, I guess it’s no different than the ridiculous primary process going on in the US right now. South Park hit the nail on the head with the whole Giant Dou <split> che vs a Tur <split> d Sandwich episode from years ago.

The poll is also flawed as it gives no option on how long the rotation should last. Three months is WAY too long if they bring Deserted back on all three BL, so the lesser evil is to have two alpine one Deserted and then monitor the metrics as to how many play on each map (and exclude guild vs guild, as it would be the preferred map for that as easiest to load your entire guild in). Then just let Deserted die the death it deserves.

• 3 copies of DBL means I’m quitting GW2 for the duration at the very least, I’m not doing the whole EBG Groundhog’s Day thing again
• 1-2 copies of ABL means nastier queues unless Anet does some upgrading
• Not paying for yet another transfer into murky waters especially since the few friends left are barely hanging on to this game

Shadow Gathering.5649:

In the 5/31 poll Anet asked WvW players if we want desert and alpine borderland maps to be available simultaneously, or alternatively if we want just desert or alpine to be available one at a time and rotated every 3 months.

The problem is that Anet has already decided by default. They said that the maps will be rotated every 3 months unless a 75 percent majority vote to change that presumption. Not a simply majority, not even a super majority, but 75 percent.

I’m a big fan of Tyler and the new democratic approach Anet is taking, but don’t let this polling turn into joke. If Anet picks a default outcome before we even vote, and we need a 75 percent majority to overcome that presumption, then polling becomes a farce.

With respect,

Also mentioned it before. Really a joke. Specially that it is 65 % for the change and 28% aginst it. Twice as much people are for the change than against it, and the change wouldn’t be done. If it’s somewhat like 55% for it would be maybe ok from a view that it is some work to make those changes happen. But definitivly still not a fair voting.

But I also think they should start some discussion before, gather more ideas and than bring up those ideas in the polls.

I voted for 2 alpine / 1 desert. I dont even really want that, because people will be kittened if they have desert map as homes, or the other way around. I just want the option for a 3rd map and a change to desert / alpine to a more symmetric and fair layout, which would more likely come with that change.

In short:
- Change alpine and desert maps to a fair symmetric layout like eternal battlegrounds
- Pool of maps
- Pick 4 maps randomly for the matchup every reset

In long:
Well the poll is out now, and you ask whether you want to choose between:
1.) 2 Alpine + 1 Desert / 2 Desert + 1 Aloine
2.) Rotate between 3 Alpine and 3 Desert every 3 Month

I personally don’t want one of each and here is why:
To have 3 times or even 2 times the same map is kinda boring, it looks all the same, you play it every day and have no variety. While with option 1 you have at least the option to choose which borderlands you want to go to. The problem with that is, that people will complain for example when map xyz is there home map for example. So it maybe gives a party a bigger advantage when they get those map as home map. So while option 1 gives us more map variety which i would really like to see it gives us also a more unfair matchup.

So my suggestion would be to have basically 4 Maps like:
1x Eternal Battleground
1x Desert Borderland
1x Alpine Borderlands
1x In the beginning maybe a second Alpine Borderlands (because it is very popular in the poll currently) and later then a new one maybe

But to have a fair matchup you should change the layout of Alpine and Dersert Borderlands to be more symmetric like Eternal Battlegrounds. So we won’t have the home map problem anymore. You have more map variety. And could even add more wvw maps and have something like a map pool, on each reset 4 maps could be picked randomly.

Maybe the EotMmap could be also added to that pool under another name like Skylands or so. And shuffle the map for EotM as well.

With such a system people who don’t like desert bordlands don’t have to go there and have still a few other map options.

So here was the following statement, which already states that this would be possible. Also to make them more symmetric and fair shouldn’t be a problem

Anet-TylerB
Just to clarify. The Simultaneous Borderlands is a system that better supports a third map, than the rotation strategy. So an additional map would be more likely in that respect. However, our development priorities are still community driven. We wouldn’t start building another WvW map unless it was put to a vote, and won.

This post was about rotating more frequently, which also states that changing maps more frequently would be possible with additional changes. So I guess this would also allow a weekly shuffle of the maps.

McKenna Berdrow
I have seen a few posts inquiring if we could rotate between Alpine and Desert Borderlands faster than quarterly and I just wanted to clarify on why we currently proposed doing it quarterly. When we rotate maps we have to wipe score, objective status, and various other things to give us a clean startup when we swap maps. We also have to swap maps on Tuesdays because it requires a build (and currently production revolves around Tuesday releases and it isn’t reasonable to change the game-wide release schedule). Since rotating the maps currently involves disrupting the active match, the more often we rotate the maps, the more matches we end up disrupting. This manual map rotation is both time consuming for developers and disruptive for players. Assuming the community votes to keep the borderlands map rotation strategy, we’ll want to eventually automate this process, in a non-disruptive way, but before we would start that work, we’d need the community to prioritize that project over other WvW needs.

The Problem is you just ask “Do you want option 1 or 2”. Actually I think you should gather some idea of wvw map systems. Bring those ideas up in a poll, and let us vote for the complete idea of a wvw map system. And then you can start another poll for priority of the steps to those changes.

For my suggestion I could immagine like changing the maps to a symmetric layout first. Then give us Eternal, Alpine, second Alpine, Desert at the same time. Then work on more wvw maps and at last add a shuffled map pool for each week.

This is all conjecture and flawed logic to begin with. There was a poll…and like it was said by some1 here 65.1% voted for the inclusion of desert bl. If you didn’t want that why would you vote for it? You would have chosen the last option and abstained from the vote or exited the poll completely.
——>These are facts. People who vote for something they don’t want and then complain about it later have no right to an opinion on the matter.

In terms of people voting to limit the Dl:BL to 1 and alpine to 2 maps…i voted for that option. I voted for that and I miss the desert bl and would choose it over alpine if I had to pick between the two. I voted for 1 Dl;BL because since the mergers its been alot more fun in the desert with people all over the map. In response to the kitten response from 1/4 of the community who apparently would never go desert with alpine available….i chose 1 desert bl to allow the maximum number of players to inhabit said map. Plus I don’t want the population split between 2 deserts….the more the merrier on the desert bl, get everyone on the same one! I can’t wait for desert bl to return. I am bored out of my mind doing guild runs in alpine and ebg. I miss the terrain and the strategy and the choke points of desert….not to mention how pretty the map and textures was and the diversity of enemies.

Alot of you are assuming things, and others are just plain making things up.
On the other hand alot of you are expressing ur personal opinions and are labelling it as such….and you should be applauded for this

Where is option without Desert Bl? Or fix Desert bl?

Edge of the Mist is actually the best designed WvW map.

It just needs keeps you can upgrade and a tower to conquer in the middle lower area to conquer that has a waypoint.

They need to bring all the EotM population to WvW.
The WvW map should have:
3 different borderland maps, EotM, EBG and a smaller GvG battleground.

I would suggest to start this poll again with an 5th option: No DBL at all.

Would like to know the changing in % to the former poll. I’m sure things will look quite different.

I think this would have been a better way to do it, with all maps symmetrical – if they would’ve done it that way in the beginning. I’m not sure you can change that now because:

• It takes them forever and a day to make a map; making Alpine and Desert symmetrical would be almost like making a new map so maybe it would just take them forever.
• People would QQ about losing their “Home”.

Anet let us choose from a narrow list of options THEY are considering. Just because its a “poll” doesn’t mean that players get to choose exactly what they want.

Ever stop and think that maybe anet will get a lot of valuable data if they give us a choice between BL’s. They’ll be able to get empirical data as to which BL’s have the higher populations. If they find that the ABL’s are packed and the DBL is deserted, maybe the next poll will have a “no DBL” option.

This is a classical example of a “tendentious poll”, a method well known in propaganda. ArenaNet intentionally do not include the option “No DBL at all”, so the poll result will be more towards ANet demanded option (force DBL to stay in the game).

So in reality, this is not a poll what WvW playerbase wants, this is just a comic opera and wasting of WvW players time. Thx ArenaNet for reassuring me that you do not care about what WvW playerbase wants, you just care only about your own wishes.

Cerby.1069:

There was a poll…and like it was said by some1 here 65.1% voted for the inclusion of desert bl. If you didn’t want that why would you vote for it? You would have chosen the last option and abstained from the vote or exited the poll completely.

People who voted for 1 DBL even though they didn’t want it did so because it was the best option available. You can only vote for one of the options presented, you can’t make up your own choice.

And someone who doesn’t want the DBL would not have abstained because that would mean basically a vote for keeping the 3 month rotation; which in their mind would be the absolute worst choice.

Johje Holan.4607:

Cerby.1069:

There was a poll…and like it was said by some1 here 65.1% voted for the inclusion of desert bl. If you didn’t want that why would you vote for it? You would have chosen the last option and abstained from the vote or exited the poll completely.

People who voted for 1 DBL even though they didn’t want it did so because it was the best option available. You can only vote for one of the options presented, you can’t make up your own choice.

And someone who doesn’t want the DBL would not have abstained because that would mean basically a vote for keeping the 3 month rotation; which in their mind would be the absolute worst choice.

Hmm I could have sworn there was an actual option to keep the 3 month rotation in the poll..

Ahh yes, silly you:
No: Rotating borderlands is a superior option

Those who don’t want DBL at all should take the option to not vote (it counts those choices so it would be clear if a lot of people chose not to vote).

Johje Holan.4607:

I think this would have been a better way to do it, with all maps symmetrical – if they would’ve done it that way in the beginning. I’m not sure you can change that now because:

• It takes them forever and a day to make a map; making Alpine and Desert symmetrical would be almost like making a new map so maybe it would just take them forever.
• People would QQ about losing their “Home”.

Well only because something takes some time, shouldn’t keep them from not giving wvw the love it deserves and which was denied for some time. And many changes need some time, of course redesigning something is a mayor change, but maybe something for a quarterly update
Yep could happen. I prefere to have no “home” than 3 times the same map. Kinda boring for me.

I mean maybe people have other ideas like every person on a server can select a map as the homemap and the maps will be picked by the votes of the players every week. Just like guild mission types which you can also change weekly based. Of course only the vote of active wvw players should be consideres.

I mean there could be so many creative ideas for it. And the options for the current poll are missing a bigger idea behind the changes and what could follow then.

dank.3680:

Johje Holan.4607:

Cerby.1069:

There was a poll…and like it was said by some1 here 65.1% voted for the inclusion of desert bl. If you didn’t want that why would you vote for it? You would have chosen the last option and abstained from the vote or exited the poll completely.

People who voted for 1 DBL even though they didn’t want it did so because it was the best option available. You can only vote for one of the options presented, you can’t make up your own choice.

And someone who doesn’t want the DBL would not have abstained because that would mean basically a vote for keeping the 3 month rotation; which in their mind would be the absolute worst choice.

Hmm I could have sworn there was an actual option to keep the 3 month rotation in the poll..

Ahh yes, silly you:
No: Rotating borderlands is a superior option

Those who don’t want DBL at all should take the option to not vote (it counts those choices so it would be clear if a lot of people chose not to vote).

There is an option to vote to keep the 3 month rotation. But someone who hates the DBL wouldn’t vote for that.

And the choice of “don’t count my vote” would a bad choice for someone who hates DBL because of the way the poll is structured. Basically the 3 month rotation has a better chance to win than anything else. Because it wins if none of the choices get to 75%. And “don’t count my vote” means that you’re not contributing to the percentage necessary to prevent having the DBL be there for 3 months straight.

Basically its a rigged poll.

I’m with gennyt, makes some great points

We can’t expected anet to carry out project and planning, they seemed ill equipped currently and the past has shown it. Also, we won’t ever have an honest conversation in the forums about the future. More smoke and mirrors if you ask me.

They need to hire an outside professional whose specialty is developing a work plan and expecting genuine results out of the staff with clear time lines. Time to contract out and get with the program here.

SmokinBuda.1398:

Nobody want Desert Borderland in any form or shape…your wasting my time with biased polls.

Some players do want map variety and see the benefit in having access to both. Neither Dessert or Alpine are particular favorites of mine but I can roam on just about anything.

SmokinBuda.1398:

Gw2 will pass into the history of mmo gaming as the game that had the least faith in their playerbase.

You must not have not played many MMOs because there are many that are far worse than GW2 in this regard… far… far worse.

It blows my mind when people think that those who wanna scrap dbl are the vocal minority.
Unbelievable.

rotate the maps every few days

Well I read that some people really didn’t like DBL ( )…

Solution seems easy: do not play on it, and leave those who enjoy it to use it.

Exactly the same resonning that people use to play on CBE or ABL, as some of them do not like the other one….

And we shouldn’t forget that the desert map is an investment. If it’s lost without finding a small place, it should be not so easy for someone to take the risk to invest money in any new map.

I like both maps. Both maps have different mechanics to play. Actually the desert one is closer to real life war situations than alpine.

Stop trying to say no one likes something when that is just not true. You may not like it but there are those that do. That’s life, no one is exactly like someone else, no likes everything exactly the same as someone else.

shouldnt map rotate if 75% want it rotate and now its only 28%

I have to say ANet’s Polls are Clever…to say the least.

All Votes is a Vote to bring back DBL.

Having said that…the Next Poll will probably ask us:

How Often Do We want to play on DBL?

ANet is still guiding the WvW Community…as it should.

ANet has a fiduciary duty to their business survival & to the overall players of GW2.

For better or worse, things will need to go through learning curves.

Or, it’s like a trip to the chiropractor…hurts like hell, but it’ll get better with time & more treatments.

WvW has gone long enough without proper adjustments for years.

Cut ANet some slack folks…imho

p.s.
WvW might never get fixed according to everybody’s expectations…given the Fixed 3 Way Fight Model…I’d suggest that when GW3 is launched…ANet should plan on replacing WvW with WvG(lobes).

gennyt.3428:

• 3 copies of DBL means I’m quitting GW2 for the duration at the very least, I’m not doing the whole EBG Groundhog’s Day thing again
• 1-2 copies of ABL means nastier queues unless Anet does some upgrading
• Not paying for yet another transfer into murky waters especially since the few friends left are barely hanging on to this game

I feel the opposite, I hate ABL, it bores me to tears. Currently I am stuck playing EBG which is pretty stale at this point as well but not as bad as ABL.

Having non rotating borderlands of each type depending on placement would be the most fun option I think.

Anvil.9230:

Well I read that some people really didn’t like DBL ( )…

Solution seems easy: do not play on it, and leave those who enjoy it to use it.

Exactly the same resonning that people use to play on CBE or ABL, as some of them do not like the other one….

And we shouldn’t forget that the desert map is an investment. If it’s lost without finding a small place, it should be not so easy for someone to take the risk to invest money in any new map.

This is how it actually works now:
You have a Group of 25 that is hopping to all maps to defend all objectives. You hop to ABLs to defend/ attack keeps all 25 go and you can do so. You hop to EBG to defend and attack keeps all 25 go and you can do so.

This is how it works with mixed BL:
You have a Group of 25 that is hopping to all maps to defend all objectives. You hop to ABLs to defend/ attack keeps all 25 go. You hop to EBG to defend and attack keeps all 25 go. You hop to DBL only 7 will go. You cannot attack or defend keeps with 7. That means WvW is now a broken game mode for those who do this and many consider that unplayable.

Whichever team in the mathchup who has the most players willing to hop to DBL wins.

That is why many people are not happy with this decision. The only options in the poll mean you either get a broken game mode all the time or a playable game mode part of the time.

Rin of Rivvinda.4971:

So far it thus seems that no one has any issues with getting 2 different borders simultaneously. I personally like the suggestion to (in the future) see a 3rd border added so all three homes are different.

Again lest cut the “i do not want any dessertborderland at all” posts here, and discuss if there would be any real issue (balance wise) with (for now) having 1 server on a different borderland then the other 2.

1) Let’s not cut the " Borderland GTFO" posts and let players have their say by giving them a real poll with the option to kick it to the curb on it so players can actually have their say on it instead of forcing them to leave the game over it again.

2)Plenty of people have expressed they have a problem with mixed BLS and have already said they are leaving over it… just read all the threads and posts on it, including the poll thread itself..

3)Yes there are real balance issues since whichever team that has the most players willing to go to the DBL will win since most servers have plenty of people who will not go there at all. If the same amount of players who will defend DBG and ABLs will not go to do the same for DBL on every server, of course it is going to create balance issues.

Mixed BL= broken game mode all the time
Rotating Bl = playable game mode part of the time
No DBL= playable game mode all of the time.

This is how it actually works now:
You have a Group of 25 that is hoping to all maps to defend all objectives. You hop to ABLs to defend/ attack keeps all 25 go and you can do so. You hop to EBG to defend and attack keeps all 25 go and you can do so.

This is how it works with mixed BL:
You have a Group of 25 that is hoping to all maps to defend all objectives. You hop to ABLs to defend/ attack keeps all 25 go. You hop to EBG to defend and attack keeps all 25 go. You hop to DBL only 7 will go. You cannot attack or defend keeps with 7. That means WvW is now a broken game mode for those who do this and many consider that unplayable.

Whatever peoples feelings on the DBL or whether or not they like it, does not change this from being the actual issue that will be caused by this. This is what is going happen regardless of the poll results. In reality we are voting on whether or not many players leave the game again due to the decision by Anet to push this on them regardless of what the previous polls and petitions already said about it.

Its seems the 2 alpine bl and 1 desert bl going to win out i just hope red gets the desert bl and blue / green get the alpine. I would like to see a 3ed map that may be easier or hard to take then the alpine but not as hard to take as the desert bl. This means red blue and green will need to be base off of ranks and numbers of players that showed up the week before.

EBG is kind of like this but on a must smaller scale.

Cerby.1069:

This is all conjecture and flawed logic to begin with. If you didn’t want that why would you vote for it? You would have chosen the last option and abstained from the vote or exited the poll completely.
——>These are facts. People who vote for something they don’t want and then complain about it later have no right to an opinion on the matter.

We voted for a choice we didnt want because the poll gives us no option. No, abstaining and saying don’t count my vote is not an option, as that basically says I have no opinion on this and do not mind the outcome. I mind the outcome very much and therefore selected the option which minimizes the impact on the fun I have ingame. When you’re choices are reduced to chosing an option you dont really want or not voting at all – The poll is flawed and biased.

Cel

I agree that it would be better if we had all map layouts like EBG ( equal sides, objectives closer together, direct routes), but What I would like to see happen instead would be start out with ’ stationary maps" that are there all the time, and then have maps that are timed temporary EBG like maps that appear when all servers in a matchup hit 15 in queue that contribute the same as EBG does to the match and when servers drop population, they expire. This would allow more players to play at once solve the Queue issues during prime time and also allow to not have too much map to cover during slow periods. If everyone knows they are timed ahead of time, they wont cry if the siege disappears.

Teon.5168:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Teon.5168:

Lord Kuru.3685:

I’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of non-desert haters are a very very vocal minority of the overall population. The majority of the overall population already quit because of desert, and a majority of what’s left will quit when it returns.

I see what you did, there.

Curious as to where you’re getting your “majority quit or will quit” numbers, though, as Anet has never released any sort of population numbers. Ever.

I know, it’s a small thing.

If you played before HoT and then after, you know the majority of players quit WvW… I’d estimate 70%.

I have played since a month after initial release. Sorry, but I don’t see what you do. Sure, some players left…..that’s why they linked servers. But 70%???? Well, I guess you might as well go for broke when you’re pulling numbers out of thin air.

There was already a large portion on the population that had left the game before HoT that more than likely exceeds any that left after HoT. Does anyone have those numbers outside of ANet. Not that I have seen. Think back on queue sizes on reset from 2-3 years ago to before HoT. They were wayyyyyyyy down if not gone. People had already left due to normal game attrition, new games, lack of changes to the game mod. Then you have some that just left WvW to go do other portions of the game due to above reasons and other aspects of the game changing and thereby competing with WvW time for some. Take the PvP tournaments. If you don’t think that pulls people from WvW then you probably haven’t been out to HoTM to see your server mates and other servers out there. People that enjoy the fights move back and fourth between sPvP and WvW.

The point is this isn’t a DBL/ABL thing. If player choose in upcoming polls that a new map is priority you might end up with the same situation where you have 3 maps you don’t like in play at one time. And you are also limited in your variety of battlefields to choose from. Mixed borderlands allows more flexibility and has a better chance to keep things fresh where as just 2 maps is very limited and predictable and if the BL is not a type you like, you are even more narrowed down.

Some people aren’t talking here because they don’t want to be shouted down, told their opinions don’t matter or are wrong, end up trolled in game, or otherwise be treated poorly. Remember that they exist, too.

And some of them already believe that their interests won’t be heard or paid attention to by arena net, or that being insulted or shouted down for holding a different opinion isn’t worth it over a video game.

The thing they have to remember though is if players are unhappy with what they implement, the same thing that happened last time will happen again. Players will leave, and voice their dissatisfaction on here, reddit, gaming sites ect.. The game will lose numbers and players will move off to other games instead. When those players leave, the players who want to play with them will leave with them even if they were not as bothered with the changes. Then the players who want to play with them will not be far behind them.

It starts a chain reaction that results in many more players actually leaving the game than the ones they upset in the first place just so players can play games with the people they enjoy playing them with.

Honestly, Game developers should be working on trying to bring more players to their game than running them off instead. If a decision is actually going to decrease the population of a game, why would anyone in their right mind do that? I thought the objective is to grow the game and in crease players instead.

lil devils x.6071:

1) Let’s not cut the " Borderland GTFO" posts and let players have their say by giving them a real poll with the option to kick it to the curb on it so players can actually have their say on it instead of forcing them to leave the game over it again.

2)Plenty of people have expressed they have a problem with mixed BLS and have already said they are leaving over it… just read all the threads and posts on it, including the poll thread itself..

3)Yes there are real balance issues since whichever team that has the most players willing to go to the DBL will win since most servers have plenty of people who will not go there at all. If the same amount of players who will defend DBG and ABLs will not go to do the same for DBL on every server, of course it is going to create balance issues.

Mixed BL= broken game mode all the time
Rotating Bl = playable game mode part of the time
No DBL= playable game mode all of the time.

This is how it actually works now:
You have a Group of 25 that is hoping to all maps to defend all objectives. You hop to ABLs to defend/ attack keeps all 25 go and you can do so. You hop to EBG to defend and attack keeps all 25 go and you can do so.

This is how it works with mixed BL:
You have a Group of 25 that is hoping to all maps to defend all objectives. You hop to ABLs to defend/ attack keeps all 25 go. You hop to EBG to defend and attack keeps all 25 go. You hop to DBL only 7 will go. You cannot attack or defend keeps with 7. That means WvW is now a broken game mode for those who do this and many consider that unplayable.

Whatever peoples feelings on the DBL or whether or not they like it, does not change this from being the actual issue that will be caused by this. This is what is going happen regardless of the poll results. In reality we are voting on whether or not many players leave the game again due to the decision by Anet to push this on them regardless of what the previous polls and petitions already said about it.

Your premise is flawed. Even before DBL and HoT you would lose people when jumping from EBG to BLs and vice versa. You would also lose people jumping from BL to BL. This is not a new concept in WvW. Its been around since the start of the game. People already had map preferences then and people had to deal with it. We still have it today with just EGB and ABL back. If you want to claim its worse that fine, but don’t fool yourself, it existed before and exists now. That’s always been the issue between home BL people versus EBG people as well as havocs versus the other two.

Sarika.3756:

Some people aren’t talking here because they don’t want to be shouted down, told their opinions don’t matter or are wrong, end up trolled in game, or otherwise be treated poorly. Remember that they exist, too.

And some of them already believe that their interests won’t be heard or paid attention to by arena net, or that being insulted or shouted down for holding a different opinion isn’t worth it over a video game.

Sadly this is the case for most players. They usually just leave the game when the game developers do something that makes the game no longer fun for them. Most I know that left never said a word on forums, to Anet or anyone else why they left and said nothing to anyone until I asked them. IF Anet doesn’t actually ask those players ( they can via email if they want to just as I received the Surveys from them via email) they will never have their answers.

This is why I think it is important to actually just ask the past and present players and think the past players matter JUST AS MUCH as the present so Anet can fully understand what they are doing that makes players leave. They can actually bring people back if they make the right decisions and each out to their players and treat them like they do matter. It is when developers take a stance that they don’t care what the players want that it goes downhill pretty fast.

It would be better to ask people and allow the players to have an actual say than just to force things on to them. They should never forget that players do not have to play their game, they do so as long as it is fun for them. If it isn’t fun, they will not stay long. You cannot force people to do what they do not want to do. They may " settle" for a while, but in the end, they will go when they find something they actually enjoy instead.

TLDR:
Dear Anet,
Please Email your past a present WvW players over a certain rank and ask them what they want instead of trying to force this stuff on them and make them leave.

TheGrimm.5624:

lil devils x.6071:

1) Let’s not cut the " Borderland GTFO" posts and let players have their say by giving them a real poll with the option to kick it to the curb on it so players can actually have their say on it instead of forcing them to leave the game over it again.

2)Plenty of people have expressed they have a problem with mixed BLS and have already said they are leaving over it… just read all the threads and posts on it, including the poll thread itself..

3)Yes there are real balance issues since whichever team that has the most players willing to go to the DBL will win since most servers have plenty of people who will not go there at all. If the same amount of players who will defend DBG and ABLs will not go to do the same for DBL on every server, of course it is going to create balance issues.

Mixed BL= broken game mode all the time
Rotating Bl = playable game mode part of the time
No DBL= playable game mode all of the time.

This is how it actually works now:
You have a Group of 25 that is hoping to all maps to defend all objectives. You hop to ABLs to defend/ attack keeps all 25 go and you can do so. You hop to EBG to defend and attack keeps all 25 go and you can do so.

This is how it works with mixed BL:
You have a Group of 25 that is hoping to all maps to defend all objectives. You hop to ABLs to defend/ attack keeps all 25 go. You hop to EBG to defend and attack keeps all 25 go. You hop to DBL only 7 will go. You cannot attack or defend keeps with 7. That means WvW is now a broken game mode for those who do this and many consider that unplayable.

Whatever peoples feelings on the DBL or whether or not they like it, does not change this from being the actual issue that will be caused by this. This is what is going happen regardless of the poll results. In reality we are voting on whether or not many players leave the game again due to the decision by Anet to push this on them regardless of what the previous polls and petitions already said about it.

Your premise is flawed. Even before DBL and HoT you would lose people when jumping from EBG to BLs and vice versa. You would also lose people jumping from BL to BL. This is not a new concept in WvW. Its been around since the start of the game. People already had map preferences then and people had to deal with it. We still have it today with just EGB and ABL back. If you want to claim its worse that fine, but don’t fool yourself, it existed before and exists now. That’s always been the issue between home BL people versus EBG people as well as havocs versus the other two.

We would lose scouts, or people we designated to stay, not lose the majority of the group simply due to them hating the map. This happens in guild runs, not just pug groups as well. This happened on an entirely different scale due to DBL hate, many guilds would refuse to respond to ANY calls for the DBLS at all. In the end, many just left the game all together over it instead.

It isn’t flawed, that is exactly what happens..
When our guild ran we had multiple map pins on multiple maps at once, this was an issue regardless of who tried to go DBLs or how many we started with.

Jski.6180:

Its seems the 2 alpine bl and 1 desert bl going to win out

Unfortunately, you’re wrong. “Yes” has never reached 75% since the beginning of the poll, which means that rotation, though representing only 30%, wins.

Bandini.6185:

Jski.6180:

Its seems the 2 alpine bl and 1 desert bl going to win out

Unfortunately, you’re wrong. “Yes” has never reached 75% since the beginning of the poll, which means that rotation, though representing only 30%, wins.

I really think they’ll take it to a 2nd poll, with just the top two vote winners in the poll.