Guild Wars 2

Fixing the forum bug.

Map looks really well done as far as a piece of art but not looking forward to the Eotm map mechanics and it replacing the beloved BLs.

I can’t believe, that most people here are complaining. What is wrong with a new WvW map that brings two strengths of Guildwars 2 together: Threeway WvW and dynamic events. Seriously, this map looks like a lot of effort has gone into it. Anet wants to tell the players: “look we do really care about WvW” Even if it is broken or unbalanced, it still is going to be awesome to see something different than the old Borderlands.

Concern A: The new objectives and the way mobility is used with them will cause un-even matchups to snowball heavily, more than they would otherwise. This will create really bad matchup problems for all but the most evenly matched weeks.

Concern B: WvW players don’t like mechanics that get in the way of actually fighting the enemy.

crunchyraisin.6054:

Concern B: WvW players don’t like mechanics that get in the way of actually fighting the enemy.

This isn’t a map for WvW players. We’re too few and don’t make A.net enough money to be cared about. This is a map to give PvE’rs more to do. Most of the people kittening over these gimpy mechanics are PvE’rs. That’s why you see posts from people who admit they don’t play WvW but this will get them too.

Just EotM which is already a giant fail ball for WvWers. Who goes there who is serious about WvW? No one thats who. They sound like they are putting more PvE in WvW which is just dumb! If I wanted more loot I’d do PvE content and I, like most of the hardcore WvW folks don’t give two poops about loot unless it’s from an enemy player. On top of it they are just going to nuke the boarder lands in favor of the new map.

This doesn’t look like EotM at all to me. Yes, it has ‘more verticality’ but it’s not like you’re going to be falling to your death from the relatively low bridges and what not.

I imagine people are going to be upset that WvW is moving away from ‘Unofficial gvg with towers, if you’re into those’ to something closer to fighting to gain land and keep it. For me, this is a pretty wonderful change, though.

Granted, I don’t know how everything is going to work out yet and I’m kind of concerned about that cannon that hits everything business, but I’m excited to try it out.

KcB.6890:

crunchyraisin.6054:

Concern B: WvW players don’t like mechanics that get in the way of actually fighting the enemy.

This isn’t a map for WvW players. We’re too few and don’t make A.net enough money to be cared about. This is a map to give PvE’rs more to do. Most of the people kittening over these gimpy mechanics are PvE’rs. That’s why you see posts from people who admit they don’t play WvW but this will get them too.

And I’d be fine with this, except they’re removing our Alpine borderlands! Where can I go if I don’t want EotM-y PvE jumping puzzle thing? Is EB all WvWers have left now?

Maybe they should make each of the borderlands something new. Like one is the Alpine, one is the Desert, etc.

Really like the looks of the new map. We need more complexity on the maps not less. Choosing where to stand and fight should be important and you should be able to knockback people to their death. Love the potential for multiple levels. The biggest issue with the current borderlands are there are virtually no choke points. The openness of them leads to very little change in tactics which makes things stale. More value in holding objectives is a big plus and should be expanded upon. Towers that are actually choke points have been asked for a number of times. Would still like more details but excited so far.

Looks interesting, in a sense – but I’m seeing a lot of defensive mechanics and not a whole lot to provide some variety for those who aren’t so keen on siege warfare. Still think we should be seeing 5v5s for some bonuses / shrines.

KcB.6890:

crunchyraisin.6054:

Concern B: WvW players don’t like mechanics that get in the way of actually fighting the enemy.

This isn’t a map for WvW players. We’re too few and don’t make A.net enough money to be cared about. This is a map to give PvE’rs more to do. Most of the people kittening over these gimpy mechanics are PvE’rs. That’s why you see posts from people who admit they don’t play WvW but this will get them too.

What “PvE” are you talking about?
All of the new mechanisms look like PvP to me.
Fighting Lord Bosses is i.e. not PvE as long as there a people defending. NPCs could make PvP fights more interesting. And if there is no one there, it’s boring anyway.

What do you guys want? An empty flat Area for big Zergs bumping into each other?

I can’t say if the new Borderlands are any good, but I don’t get what you are criticizing.

TamTiTam.9574:

KcB.6890:

crunchyraisin.6054:

Concern B: WvW players don’t like mechanics that get in the way of actually fighting the enemy.

This isn’t a map for WvW players. We’re too few and don’t make A.net enough money to be cared about. This is a map to give PvE’rs more to do. Most of the people kittening over these gimpy mechanics are PvE’rs. That’s why you see posts from people who admit they don’t play WvW but this will get them too.

What “PvE” are you talking about?
All of the Events on the new Map sound like PvP-Events to me.
What do you guys want? An empty flat Area for big Zergs bumping into each other?

I guess, many people (including me) consider WvW as “worlds vs worlds” and not “worlds vs environment and random creatures and turrets and whatever else is there”.

TamTiTam.9574:

KcB.6890:

crunchyraisin.6054:

Concern B: WvW players don’t like mechanics that get in the way of actually fighting the enemy.

This isn’t a map for WvW players. We’re too few and don’t make A.net enough money to be cared about. This is a map to give PvE’rs more to do. Most of the people kittening over these gimpy mechanics are PvE’rs. That’s why you see posts from people who admit they don’t play WvW but this will get them too.

What “PvE” are you talking about?
All of the Events on the new Map sound like PvP-Events to me.
What do you guys want? An empty flat Area for big Zergs bumping into each other?

The cannon event in the center of the map is pretty kittening PvE.

TamTiTam.9574:

KcB.6890:

crunchyraisin.6054:

Concern B: WvW players don’t like mechanics that get in the way of actually fighting the enemy.

This isn’t a map for WvW players. We’re too few and don’t make A.net enough money to be cared about. This is a map to give PvE’rs more to do. Most of the people kittening over these gimpy mechanics are PvE’rs. That’s why you see posts from people who admit they don’t play WvW but this will get them too.

What “PvE” are you talking about?
All of the Events on the new Map sound like PvP-Events to me.
What do you guys want? An empty flat Area for big Zergs bumping into each other?

Not an empty flat area (well a few want that but not most). But the map doesn’t need to be so ridiculously complex.

No wonder it takes Anet so long to design a map – they make it too complex. It doesn’t need to be that crazy to be a good map.

I would prefer them design simpler maps but more of them. That way they could bang out maps once every 3 or 4 months and we’d have a lot of variety.

Gaab.4257:

TamTiTam.9574:

KcB.6890:

crunchyraisin.6054:

Concern B: WvW players don’t like mechanics that get in the way of actually fighting the enemy.

This isn’t a map for WvW players. We’re too few and don’t make A.net enough money to be cared about. This is a map to give PvE’rs more to do. Most of the people kittening over these gimpy mechanics are PvE’rs. That’s why you see posts from people who admit they don’t play WvW but this will get them too.

What “PvE” are you talking about?
All of the Events on the new Map sound like PvP-Events to me.
What do you guys want? An empty flat Area for big Zergs bumping into each other?

I guess, many people (including me) consider WvW as “worlds vs worlds” and not “worlds vs environment and random creatures and turrets and whatever else is there”.

Where do you get “worlds vs environment and random creatures and turrets and whatever else is there” from?

The Cannon Event i.e. seems to be a PvP-Event, Players are supposed to fight over those Cores. They emphasized that killing the Mobs is not the Problem.
The environment (sand storms etc.) is supposed to influence to fighting (breaking up Zergs, give some variety) not to replace it.
I do not want to be a “white knight” and defend a Map that obvously sucks.
I am seriously interested what all this hating is about.

TamTiTam.9574:

Where do you see “worlds vs environment and random creatures and turrets and whatever else is there” ?

The Cannon Event i.e. seems to be a PvP-Event, Players are supposed to fight over those Cores. They emphasized that killing the Mobs is not the Problem.
The environment (sand storms etc.) is supposed to influence to fighting (breaking up Zergs, give some variety) not to replace it.
I do not want to be a “white knight” and defend a Map that obvously sucks.
I am seriously interested what all this hating is about.

Turrets which will knock you down to death while fighting players.
“Turrets” which will dmg+burn you while you’re trying to fight others.
“Turrets” which will cripple you while you’re trying to fight others.
Bosses which are not easy to kill, making the work of 3-5 man ninja-groups harder as you have to spend more time on the boss so the blob will have time to get back ( its rare already, if the bosses are harder to kill even less ppl will try it).

Ledges, safe-siege(AC/Ballista) spots, Big Boom Cannon which opens all your outer gates (opening the only gate of the towers).
Big Boom Cannon pre-event, which is similar to the old Orbs, where flying/fastrunning players were “common”.

The map is beautiful, it has some interesting (or even good) points (like towers blocking choke-points), but it has some features which makes me fear the future.

Ok. That makes sense. Thank you.
I still think that it is to early to if it really sucks, though. The Devs do provide some good arguments, and nobody here could really play it yet.

I’m fine with an eotm v2 map, I enjoyed eotm. But there are annoying things from eotm that I really hate to see in the new map…turrets is one of them. Turrets is just not needed, it’s super annoying and it fires way too much, too often, and its radius way too large.

Also we need more large fields for some good ‘ol fashioned open field battles. And this field must be clear of turrets for crying out loud. Yes, I think I’ve said it before that I had turrets, but I really do.

I’m totally fine with side games, events, fluff, bosses, etc.. But turrets is like shoving arrow carts down our throats and trying to make us like it. Except it’s now cannons that are pre-built and automated. wth Anet, do you play your games?

Regarding the turrets, unlike EotM where they are all over badlands. It looks like here they are located inside or very close to the 3 keeps. And you can disable them by claiming *2* of the shrines around the keep (which is going to be SO META to do before attacking a keep! that I’m more worried about ever getting to enjoy those bonuses during a siege...).

On to something entirely else. Judging from all the comments about "pve" in wvw maps... I would strongly urge ANet to make a copy of the good old "Alpine" BL, and put it up as an "extra" map, either under normal WvW match-up’s or under EotM matchups. AND REMOVE ALL NPC’s save Dolyak’s. All events, and remove PPT from it entirely. Just a blank empty map with dolyaks.

I would be bored out of my skull, but I’m very interested in how all these people would actually like that ?!

As to the problem of the turrets, I see the potential problem and am hoping that these two things are done with at least the Earth and Fire Turrets[I see little problem with the wind turrets since they don’t seem devastating to anyone paying attention to your positioning]:
-The Earth Turrets, while they may have a large AoE, should at least have a large and bright AoE circle to give a tell/warning to those approaching or standing under it, meaning it’s mainly an issue if a zerg isn’t paying attention and can be avoided with ease.
-The Fire Turrets I can see ruining smaller groups. So long as they’re mainly located close to the keep and their projectiles are slow, I can see this mainly act as anti-zerg defense, as it should. It doesn’t seem like these will be gatling firing fire bolts, and maybe it’ll give an AoE tell so, again, it acts as an anti-zerg suppressant[with AoE] and not acting as a “Skyhammer” in small encounters.

That’s all, really. If a defender, however, takes advantage of a friendly turret nearby and uses a well-timed immobilization/stun or chill/cripple, I feel that’s fair game for using the environment.

As for the Wind Turrets, we’ve seen 5 of them, I believe, outside the Wind Keep. 3 of them were on a bridge, pushing victims into a shallow river from which it seems the fallen can just go around again and be more careful. Not too punishing, and not too in the way of fights given their position on a bridge. The other two were on more… high-risk spots. However, they weren’t hidden and one of the spots didn’t seem very ideal for a chance encounter to fight in[on stairs]. The other spot, on a somewhat wide ledge, might be more likely two groups or people will meet to fight on, however the turret is near one end of the path and thus isn’t incredibly hard to avoid in an encounter.

Other than what I’ve stated, it’ll just be another thought commanders will have to have: “How many shrines are on?” “Should we take out the shrines on the way, or go for the keep and have roamers take the shrines?” It won’t end zerging, of course, but it’ll increase the strategy necessary for each push, involving disabling enemy defenses to clear the path for your army.