Guild Wars 2

It seems to me many threads are dedicated to mobility and stealth and how these things are ruining WvW. Many complaints centered around the capability of some classes to break off combat vs multiple enemies and essentially escape. Most complaints are levied against thief, warrior, and mesmer.

In general most big targets (towers,keeps) require many players to take quickly and safely. Softer targets (Dolyaks, Sentries, and to a lesser extent camps) are generally taken by roamers but are often taken by zergs as well. In order for many players to avoid such roaming zergs the employ tactics such as mobility and stealth to avoid combat with a force much bigger than there own. The rub is that when roaming many players use these same tactics to avoid forces equal to or not much bigger than their own to the chagrin of some players.

There are generally clear differences between builds built for zerg and builds built for roaming. In generally builds build or zerging have strong access to AoE and have the capability to either melee with strong defenses or DPS from range behind or toward the middle of the zerg. Player who build for roaming. Usually either have some some of strong access to mobility (swiftness or +25% speed), Movement skills (leaps, teleports, charges) and stealth and/or have strong access to snaring while on the run (glue bomb being a decent example). Most of these builds lack the AOE of zerging builds and conversely most zerging builds lack the mobility of roaming builds.

My questions are should players be forced to coalesce in order to be effective in areas of WvW? Should all fights no matter how outnumbered it becomes be fights of attrition?

Someone soloing a yak or a camp is far more useful than a zergling.

Some people are lactose intolerant. It’s not fair to force everyone to eat cheese.

You can easily build most professions for both zerging and roaming at the same time, however to this date, the only profession i know can perform great in both “modes” with the same builds are Ranger, Engineer and Warrior. The rest have to change many of their traits/gear/weapons.

Going with a speed build/perma swiftness build in zergs gives the zerg an edge, while you really do not perform that much worse.

Few examples of working roaming/hybrid builds;
Engineer; Condi-Bunker
Warrior; Hambow, Zerker
Ranger; Power Bunker (clerics tank), Zerker, Trapper, BM Bunker (condition and power), Celestial, Shout-Spirit BM Bunker.

Even though a fight can be fun the way WvW scores are calculated makes it sometimes more worthwhile to skip a fight and take on another target.

Eloquence.5207:

Some people are lactose intolerant. It’s not fair to force everyone to eat cheese.

Everyone must at least enjoy ice cream though.

I solo roam on a p/s engineer with one movement skill and no swiftness (but a 25% speed increase). If I’m not watching and get jumped by 10 people, I die. It’s not the end of the world.

I guess it’s okay that some builds can just slip away from any number of opponents, but even I’ll admit that it’s kind of lame to fight those people. Usually fights like that consist of beating the person repeatedly while he resets and comes back or comes back with friends. Of course, then you can just kill the friends too, but it’s kind of a weird build-type (the runner) nonetheless.

I have builds that can both roam and zerg but I typically find it much better to just run either a pure roam or pure zerg build rather than a hybrid. I can keep a second armor set in my inventory and just reset traits when I need to switch.

As far as running away from fights, I don’t see anything wrong with it. When you run away, you give up the territory you ran from. If it causes you to lose a supply camp because you didn’t defend it, well then that’s your mistake. You will see a lot of people with zerg builds and wanting to catch up to the commander who are not very wanting to 1v1 someone if they run across someone. If you want to zerg, then I see no reason why you would be expected to 1v1 that person as opposed to catching up to the commander. If your build is not a 1v1 build and that person’s build is, then it’s build wars. I don’t see an issue of build wars causing someone to flee. The bottom line is, you should just be having fun. Or if you are outnumbered by an enemy, I see no reason why you would be expected to fight them. I don’t consider running away from a 4v16 to be dishonorable.

People run high mobility (run away setups) because there’s nothing more dumb than engaging 1-2 enemies and having it turn into 5-10, 10-15, etc….

Why should a solo or even duo roamer team hang around to let you “zerg” them with 3-4x their number? Now if they’re running from 1v1s or 5v5s that is just a different subject, but more often than not WvW is a kitteng zergfest, and having “escapability” built into your setup is a good way to be successful.

Eloquence.5207:

Some people are lactose intolerant. It’s not fair to force everyone to eat cheese.

Best Quote Ever, Anet should make this a motto.

There is no campaign against solo roaming. The campaign is against the thieves/warriors/mesmers/elementalist(or any other class) that 1v1 and reset their health when they are losing and then come back for more. Right now the current combat system is messed up. To reset a fight you either have to be out of combat for X amount of time or move X distance away from contact. The problem with that is a warrior can move X distant faster than anyone else so they can reset their health alone with the other person still in combat doesn’t have their health reset and then they rush back in and try to fight again with them now having the advantage. The combat reset system need to be changed in one aspect. The X distance from contact. It needs to be X distance from player to player so both have their health reset and not only one.

If there is an active current campaign, it is against skilled players rolling lessor skilled players. Most skilled players accept the strengths and weaknesses of various builds. There certainly are some flavor of the month builds that make the rounds but that is pretty common in every MMO.

Ancient Ranger.3276:

There is no campaign against solo roaming. The campaign is against the thieves/warriors/mesmers/elementalists

I disagree with Ele and mesmer.

Ele – Ride The Lightening got nerfed and long cool down when used with no target. That is fine with me, they have other movement skills but again none of these are that big.

Mesmer – They have stealth sure, but they are slow, they have Blink but again that doesnt make up for the fact they are slow.

I agree with Thief and Warrior though, far to easy for them to stop run and be gone.

When a warrior turns into Forrest Gump I spam /laugh, almost everytime the ego gets to em and they come back to die.

As for thief, I run a PVT/valk mesmer so they are just an annoyance, they get their back stab, realize they didnt even take 10% of my health then run, no biggie though cause I’m out there roaming for the good fights and not the loot bags.

As a roamer to other roamers on the thread, think of how many people you didn’t stomp just cause it was a great fight.

This childish and silly campaign still exist becouse most of people in wvw play in brainless zerg mode and when happens to be out of the hug of the mom (zerg) this people is an easy target.

This campaing still exist becouse in this game there is the “without holy trinity and the possibility to do what i want with my class” wrong thought, so people think to be able to kill everyone and handle every situation with any random build. Wrong.

The campaign still exist even the braindead meta that most of wvwers like. Spam aoe here aoe spam there.
Spam CCs like there is no tomorrow, spam condition like butter on a slice of bread.
And roaming classes must die!!! becouse i’m smashing random buttons on my keyboard and can’t be possibile that my character, builted with tanky gear becouse collecting bags and farming towers is cool, is not able to kill that zerky enemy.

This campaign still exist becouse it’s easier coming here and start to compain every day instead of play better.

This campaing still exist becouse this is not a fair 1vs1 arena but people still not understand that.

Meanwhile i see karma train everywhere. So where are all these prouds pvp crusaders?

I am not sure why you are asking those 2 questions.
1. What do you mean by “forced”? You wouldnt take a pve build to wvw, nor would you take a wvw build to pvp. Each area of the game requires different things.
2. The way this game is designed encourages battles of attrition (water field blasting, conditions, protection, siege). Unless your enemy is horrible at everything besides pvd, in which case its their own fault for not being good at the pvp aspect of the game.

Ancient Ranger.3276:

To reset a fight you either have to be out of combat for X amount of time or move X distance away from contact. The problem with that is a warrior can move X distant faster than anyone else so they can reset their health alone with the other person still in combat doesn’t have their health reset and then they rush back in and try to fight again with them now having the advantage….

I don’t know if it works like that, I assumed both players would ‘reset’, go out-of-combat simultaneously. That would be obvious, and fair. Well, mostly at least.

frans.8092:

Ancient Ranger.3276:

To reset a fight you either have to be out of combat for X amount of time or move X distance away from contact. The problem with that is a warrior can move X distant faster than anyone else so they can reset their health alone with the other person still in combat doesn’t have their health reset and then they rush back in and try to fight again with them now having the advantage….

I don’t know if it works like that, I assumed both players would ‘reset’, go out-of-combat simultaneously. That would be obvious, and fair. Well, mostly at least.

That is assuming no other players, and no NPC creatures, involved. Thieves are a their most annoying when adding to fights that are already under way. Alone in a 1v1 they’re much more manageable.

what about Group of thieves that are not full zerker being able to camp in front of spawns?

what about bloodlust.

Not to mention how a fleeing thief doesn t give reward as other profession.
Since anet said “if you make a thief flee you have won”, then make them drop reward on stealth from combat….or do something about it as people is asking since release maybe….

Ragnar.4257:

frans.8092:

Ancient Ranger.3276:

To reset a fight you either have to be out of combat for X amount of time or move X distance away from contact. The problem with that is a warrior can move X distant faster than anyone else so they can reset their health alone with the other person still in combat doesn’t have their health reset and then they rush back in and try to fight again with them now having the advantage….

I don’t know if it works like that, I assumed both players would ‘reset’, go out-of-combat simultaneously. That would be obvious, and fair. Well, mostly at least.

That is assuming no other players, and no NPC creatures, involved. Thieves are a their most annoying when adding to fights that are already under way. Alone in a 1v1 they’re much more manageable.

Anyone can join in and retreat, has nothing to do with the class, if a ranger joined his team-mates in an existing fight and then retreated to heal up you’d be just as powerless to stop him with his buddies training you.

Ancient Ranger.3276:

To reset a fight you either have to be out of combat for X amount of time or move X distance away from contact. The problem with that is a warrior can move X distant faster than anyone else so they can reset their health alone with the other person still in combat doesn’t have their health reset and then they rush back in and try to fight again with them now having the advantage. The combat reset system need to be changed in one aspect. The X distance from contact. It needs to be X distance from player to player so both have their health reset and not only one.

A simple fix would be, nerf the speed at which you regain health out of combat. Perhaps make useable ‘potions’ (crafters rejoice) for them to speed it up out of combat. Or force them to sit down (and thus stay in fighting range) to increase regen rates.

1. roll a norn

2. pick any class

3. use Snow Leopard elite skill

Stealth and fly out of combat.

(Someone said ele’s not as mobile and I remembered I use snow leopard on mine)

Where is the campaign against massive stacking ???

Solstice.1097:

(Someone said ele’s not as mobile and I remembered I use snow leopard on mine)

Fire Sword eles are very difficult to catch. They also do some decent door damage.

The most funny party of this topic is that WvW was created to win capturing towers, camps, etc.

A solo roamer annoying has nothing to do with this . . . . actually a solo roamer should be consider the underdog in this reward system.

All the QQ in this forums with stealth, warriors mobility, Elementalist using mist form to enter a tower after dying, OP ranger underwater . . . . etc. is simple because people is not focusing the real goal of WvW . . . they are just proud people that get rolled every time they want to roam by them self.

WvW is not a dueling field . . . when you get that you will start complaining for kitten things like that.

but but but, jumping into the water and kill 10 people with a zerker ranger is just so kitten fun.

There’s no campaign against solo roaming, it’s just not what this game-mode was designed for. They added sentries and had their kills count towards the score to accommodate roamers.

Chris.3290:

There’s no campaign against solo roaming, it’s just not what this game-mode was designed for. They added sentries and had their kills count towards the score to accommodate roamers.

Exactly . . . the less people should care in this game mode is roamers.

Is just ego talking when they QQ for everything. They want to kill every single profession and build in the game.

SoLeciTO.3490:

Chris.3290:

There’s no campaign against solo roaming, it’s just not what this game-mode was designed for. They added sentries and had their kills count towards the score to accommodate roamers.

Exactly . . . the less people should care in this game mode is roamers.

Is just ego talking when they QQ for everything. They want to kill every single profession and build in the game.

actually, most roamers only cry about stealth, healing signet and perplexity runes. The rest, they really dont care about, because it is manageable

Yup . . roamers ( or self-declared roamers) are the only that actually cry here . . .

WvW was not made to balance the classes by roaming . . . please get it now and create better and more constructive topics.