Guild Wars 2

Ya so i have read and studied the crit damage nerf. And my analysis of the data and theory’s led me to the conclusion that wvw will only become worst.

This is why.

In wvw is all about numbers. The tactic of Turtle and zerg are so prevalent because the game mechanics. The Game Mechanics limit AOE damage to 5 players. So people figured out if we stack 40 players on a dime and somone AOEs us they are only hitting 5 people not 40. And the damage can simply be cleansed, and over healed.

Now what happens when you combine that issue with nerfing everyone’s damage. The Turtle becomes even more effective than before. Which makes WvW substantially worst.

I never thought that TESO was a real threat to WvW becasue WvW is free and TESO is not. I did think that many people would leave becasue Gw2 is stale and they are ready to move on. I now think TESO impact will be very much larger.

All of the things that we hate about WvW just got worst. Thank you for your consideration ANET.

Conditions are the big kitten in WvW anyway, so it’s not gonna be that major.

It’s more of a PvE thing, toning down the damage of the top bracket.

And it will affect more the game balance of wvw in small scale fights

I went to bed last night thinking these exact same thoughts, not in terms of that “other game”, but in terms of more zerg and a lot less roaming because that’s going to be the only way to keep the damage up.

Hammer warriors are still going to be OP though.

Olba.5376:

Conditions are the big kitten in WvW anyway, so it’s not gonna be that major.

It’s more of a PvE thing, toning down the damage of the top bracket.

Arrow Carts…..

Just build more Arrow Carts….

People won’t leave to play TESO. The game is riddled with more fundamental problems than GW believe it or not.

looks like it’s time to re-trait chars into full def. Run around and shout
- Lol, I’m immortal~nana nana~

Tao.5096:

looks like it’s time to re-trait chars into full def. Run around and shout
- Lol, I’m immortal~nana nana~

Condi bunker specs will be over the top now. The condi meta was terrible before now the condi bunker meta is kittened.
This is what the game has turned into all power builds will be inferior to these.
Few professions can do this effectivly.
Ranger BM Bunker Condi spec
Warrior shout condi spec
PU mes condi spec
Thief venom Pistol/Dager Dager Pistol Condi spec
Necro
Engi Perplex
Idk about gaudians they said they will be the kings of burning

Eles will be hit hardest by this whole thing. They will have to bunker to survive but I dont forsee an ele killing anyone now.

and that’s what I mean.
Till I was thinking that condi and power builds were balanced. Maybe not on all classes, but still, they were.

Now it’s a matter of, who will melt down faster while under conditions.

Heck, I will see loads of downed players fighting each other….

stupid.

JustARTificial.3175:

People won’t leave to play TESO. The game is riddled with more fundamental problems than GW believe it or not.

Both games are very similar in play style, i like teso better just because the amount of diversity in builds, and cryodill is bigger than all the gw2 wvsw maps combined, and you get mounts, and having such a large area to play, there is more smaller battles going on on the outskirts of the big zerg battles.

Yeah, I’m not even too worried about the zerg-tactics.

I’m most concerned about Conditions running rampant with nothing to keep them in check.

I see entire Zergs stacking Dire gear + Perplexity + Food + new Sigils and ruining the game for everyone.

Condition spam encompasses the worst of this game. Passive play, untelegraphed attacks, unavoidable damage and things are just going to get so much worse.

deathklock.4961:

JustARTificial.3175:

People won’t leave to play TESO. The game is riddled with more fundamental problems than GW believe it or not.

Both games are very similar in play style, i like teso better just because the amount of diversity in builds, and cryodill is bigger than all the gw2 wvsw maps combined, and you get mounts, and having such a large area to play, there is more smaller battles going on on the outskirts of the big zerg battles.

It only seems like there are diverse builds because people haven’t figured out what the best builds are yet. Once that happens things will narrow down very quickly. The same thing happened to GW2. At the start there were tons of different builds, but as people figured things out the builds dwindled.

Cyrodil is certainly big but with mounts and fast travel the net result will be similar to gw2. What I’m waiting to see is entire zergs sneaking around. that will be hilarious. People thought thieves/mesmers in gw2 were bad! I just have this picture of 2 enemy zergs sneaking around trying to find each other, let the hilarity ensue!

Superior Sigil of Celerity: Kill 5 players get 5 seconds of Quickness.

Nope… no possible impact on WvW there.

“Some sigils have received a more extensive update than just number tweaks. An example of this would be the Sigil of Conjuring, which functioned the exact same way as the Sigil of Sanctuary. Conjuring has been renamed to Sigil of Celerity, and instead of granting invulnerability at 25 stacks, it will grant quickness for five seconds when you reach that 25th stack.”

“The functionality of each sigil has changed so that killing a player is worth five stacks of a sigil in any game mode, while killing a monster only grants one stack. "

deathklock.4961:

JustARTificial.3175:

People won’t leave to play TESO. The game is riddled with more fundamental problems than GW believe it or not.

Both games are very similar in play style, i like teso better just because the amount of diversity in builds, and cryodill is bigger than all the gw2 wvsw maps combined, and you get mounts, and having such a large area to play, there is more smaller battles going on on the outskirts of the big zerg battles.

The game hasn’t had time to develop a Meta, but there is always something that is “OP” or more “optimal”. TESO may have bigger maps, but that also brings in barren wastelands. Simple roaming is plagued with nothing between the quest giver and the objective. And then in PvP, once you arrive at the enemy fort and die, you have to spend 10 mins trying to get back to where you were. 10 mins of simple Auto-Running… Fun.

Could we not have these extremely over-exaggerated titles?

The ridiculous looking blob of 50 players occupying 3m^2 just can’t become any more broken than it already is.

The Elder Scrolls Online will have a multitude of public dungeons within Cyrodiil, which will feature quests, bosses, and loot. Unlike dungeons in the safe PvE areas of the game, however, anyone can enter these dungeons, including your enemies! Imagine working your way with a friend through the bowels of some ancient crypt, only to find a small group from an enemy alliance preparing to kill a boss at the end. There are few things more satisfying than teaming up with a PvE boss to take down a group of players

deathklock.4961:

The Elder Scrolls Online will have a multitude of public dungeons within Cyrodiil, which will feature quests, bosses, and loot. Unlike dungeons in the safe PvE areas of the game, however, anyone can enter these dungeons, including your enemies! Imagine working your way with a friend through the bowels of some ancient crypt, only to find a small group from an enemy alliance preparing to kill a boss at the end. There are few things more satisfying than teaming up with a PvE boss to take down a group of players

I saw it already in Aion.
You know how it looks like?
Dominating faction will hold weak faction out of the boss room, while they’re killing the boss.

In the end, statistically it’ll look like this
– your faction will manage to kill certain boss maybe 2-3 times for half a year, while the other faction will be full of loot from that boss.

Balanced factions? Haven’t seen a game where balance in factions was kept for a long time. It’s players mentality – I cba to go to zergfest and gain middle finger from that boss anyway, i.e. I skip it.^n players that think the same or very similar way.
You already lose a decent number on your side, or enemy does.

So factions for pve stuff may look nice, but in the end it’s broken.

What version of WvW are you guys playing that conditions are good? In my version of WvW there are 20-30 AOE cleanses per second. I don’t think i’ve ever managed to even get 3 stacks of bleed on someone for longer than 2 seconds. Conditions are SO bad in WvW that you would literally be better off not attacking at all because many times the conditions get converted into boons…

LOL @ the OP

Apparently you haven’t played WvW Meta where it’s all about CC and Soldier’s. Nothing will get destroyed, if you haven’t WvW before this won’t change your mind, if you WvWed before you’ll still play it because you like that game style. The end.

I’d be surprised if I didn’t see one day at least 1 QQ board about conspiracy theories.

Lol at people pointing to eso. You know they removed the nda to let fanboys promote their game because of bad press right?

And why pay for wvw when i can wvw for free every month?

This is also the first change they announced, there will be more, not to mention the class changes themselves. Hell, ‘oh noes conditions’ water eles to rescue!

They are nerfing each build that is not OP in WWW….it s not rocket science they are about to do the worst balancing mistake since release for WWW…..

As its now balanced specs can struggle to kill conditions and bunkers…

After patch power specs will be hit hard remember 22% less damage is HUGE.
If you add traits and food i bet its 30-40% damage nerf…..

That goes nicely along the 8% healing signet nerf for warrior to give them an nsane buff

Serophous.9085:

Lol at people pointing to eso. You know they removed the nda to let fanboys promote their game because of bad press right?

And why pay for wvw when i can wvw for free every month?

This is also the first change they announced, there will be more, not to mention the class changes themselves. Hell, ‘oh noes conditions’ water eles to rescue!

They lifted the nda because thats what every single game thats ever been made does when there close to release. Has nothing to do with bad press.

Stop shatting your pantsu already, yes the crit dmg is going to be toned down a bit BUT we getting 2 sigils on 2 handed weapons, buff to procc on crit and procc on weapon swap sigils, new utilitys that either heal or deal more dmg than other grandmaster traits.

So what I want to say is this: stop kittenposting untill the patch is live and you see a dramatic change for the worse.

Warlord.9074:

Ya so i have read and studied the crit damage nerf. And my analysis of the data and theory’s led me to the conclusion that wvw will only become worst.

This is why.

In wvw is all about numbers. The tactic of Turtle and zerg are so prevalent because the game mechanics. The Game Mechanics limit AOE damage to 5 players. So people figured out if we stack 40 players on a dime and somone AOEs us they are only hitting 5 people not 40. And the damage can simply be cleansed, and over healed.

Now what happens when you combine that issue with nerfing everyone’s damage. The Turtle becomes even more effective than before. Which makes WvW substantially worst.

I never thought that TESO was a real threat to WvW becasue WvW is free and TESO is not. I did think that many people would leave becasue Gw2 is stale and they are ready to move on. I now think TESO impact will be very much larger.

All of the things that we hate about WvW just got worst. Thank you for your consideration ANET.

TESO is going to be the same way probably. However in teso an entire zerg can appear invisible if they all crouch. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t be surprised if TESO’s WvW does impact Gw2s. However, from what I played during beta of TESO’s WvW (meta wise) it was very similar to Gw2s meta in beta. I would not be surprised if we start seeing teso zergs stack and other stuff like that.

Warlord.9074:

Ya so i have read and studied the crit damage nerf. And my analysis of the data and theory’s led me to the conclusion that wvw will only become worst.

This is why.

In wvw is all about numbers. The tactic of Turtle and zerg are so prevalent because the game mechanics. The Game Mechanics limit AOE damage to 5 players. So people figured out if we stack 40 players on a dime and somone AOEs us they are only hitting 5 people not 40. And the damage can simply be cleansed, and over healed.

Now what happens when you combine that issue with nerfing everyone’s damage. The Turtle becomes even more effective than before. Which makes WvW substantially worst.

I never thought that TESO was a real threat to WvW becasue WvW is free and TESO is not. I did think that many people would leave becasue Gw2 is stale and they are ready to move on. I now think TESO impact will be very much larger.

All of the things that we hate about WvW just got worst. Thank you for your consideration ANET.

I think, you are hyperboling this immensely. I think TESO is overrated and not even a proper ES game. I think, that many of the pro-teso players will return once their first “free” month of playing ends.
I also think, that if you believe that 10% damage in WvW will make a huge difference in a area of the game where you stack 40 damage vs 40 turtles and end up having 40×5 targets on the AOE’ers side and they still kill the turtles…

Worst case – the game gets less zergy and more playable. Yey.

Those pre implementation judgments are fishy. Because the calculations made can be easily contered.

I argue, that the dmg nerf mostly affects the full glass cannon builds. Because any other, who prefers more dmg than defens but runs a more balanced build, has still potential to regain the dmg (that propably isn’t so much nerved on a not full glass canon build anyway) by sacraficing some defense.

As far as I understand it, the dmg nerf will more effect the full glass canon builds. In a Zerg ppl run more defensive, if not heavy tank builds. So maybe there won’t be a noticable impact at all.

Do not prejudge that change, if you didn’t see it implemented yet. Theorizing is smth I do a lot too, but one shouldn’t judge too quickly.

I guess tha tthey got tired of hearing complaints from players getting 3 shotted by invisible enemies. seems like a good change to me.

Remove. The. Godkitten . AOE. Cap.

It is such an unbelievably large skill crutch for 95% of the wvw population right now.

combat has gradually devolved into condition bunkers vs condition bunkers, its going to be hilarious to see thieves traited with with that “50% damage reduction to allies and yourself while in stealth”, who then proceed to drop refuge on friendly that go down (thus making it virtually impossible to cleave them).

Please ANET, just do it….

#RemoveAOECap

I’m fine with the feature patch, as long as, they leave WvW damage the way it is (even though dps needs a buff).

The problem is, I think people are more likely to get bored and leave WvW rather than adjust and run tankier more condition heavy builds. Besides, how much fun are people going to have if the vast majority are running warriors, guardians, and condition bunker builds?

Some say zerker will still do the most damage in the game; this is true for PvE but not for WvW. As it stands now, a zerker build vs a PVT build (not sure about condition bunker yet); the PVT build does more damage. Nerfing crit makes it even worse.

Hopefully, adding the second sigil will make up for the damage loss; however, those with Elementalists and Engineers are going to get the short end of the stick. It would also be nice if they created a new sigil that added “x” number of ferocity based on your power to at least bring back the damage.

The feature patch cannot destroy WvW.

WvW was already destroyed by months of free transfers, WXP grind, tradeable siege and EotM.

Peetee.9406:

Olba.5376:

Conditions are the big kitten in WvW anyway, so it’s not gonna be that major.

It’s more of a PvE thing, toning down the damage of the top bracket.

Arrow Carts…..

Just build more Arrow Carts….

Nah, increase AC damage by another 80%

When that increase first came out I thought maybe it was a typo and they meant 8%.
But it just adds to the list of reasons that Anet WANT WvW to be Zerg vs Zerg. They dont want to spend time ans resources to make it better.

ESO wont kill GW2, Anet themselves will.

Warlord.9074:

Ya so i have read and studied the crit damage nerf. And my analysis of the data and theory’s led me to the conclusion that wvw will only become worst.

Almost every recent change that ANet has made seems to make things worse, not better. That suggests something profoundly wrong.

Warlord.9074:

I never thought that TESO was a real threat to WvW becasue WvW is free and TESO is not. I did think that many people would leave becasue Gw2 is stale and they are ready to move on. I now think TESO impact will be very much larger.

I played two early TESO playtests and didn’t think that highly of them. The direction this game has been going, however, led to to spend last weekend playing the TESO beta instead of this game and I learned to like it. Right now, I’m on the fence about buying it but the things I’ve seen this week are pushing me in the direction of buying it. GW2 is the only MMO I’ve ever played and there are many many things I like about it. But I’ve spent a lot of time in the past few months playing WvW and I’m losing faith in the direction it’s going. If I switch, it’s going to be less a matter of TESO attracting me with a much better game (though there are some things it has that I do like) and more a matter of GW2 losing me.

Note that I spend roughly TESO’s monthly fee at the GW2 gem store right now.

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

ESO wont kill GW2, Anet themselves will.

That’s pretty much how I feel right now.

I think the Meta changing ones will be from thief (op SR buff due to trait), warrior (free 25 stack mights to everyone w/o even engaging combat) guardian (aoe aegis every 20 seconds) and necro (every 3 seconds aoe cleanse condition and gain back life force, in zerg fight this is supreme since condition will never run short to absorb.)

Tao.5096:

deathklock.4961:

The Elder Scrolls Online will have a multitude of public dungeons within Cyrodiil, which will feature quests, bosses, and loot. Unlike dungeons in the safe PvE areas of the game, however, anyone can enter these dungeons, including your enemies! Imagine working your way with a friend through the bowels of some ancient crypt, only to find a small group from an enemy alliance preparing to kill a boss at the end. There are few things more satisfying than teaming up with a PvE boss to take down a group of players

I saw it already in Aion.
You know how it looks like?
Dominating faction will hold weak faction out of the boss room, while they’re killing the boss.

In the end, statistically it’ll look like this
– your faction will manage to kill certain boss maybe 2-3 times for half a year, while the other faction will be full of loot from that boss.

Balanced factions? Haven’t seen a game where balance in factions was kept for a long time. It’s players mentality – I cba to go to zergfest and gain middle finger from that boss anyway, i.e. I skip it.^n players that think the same or very similar way.
You already lose a decent number on your side, or enemy does.

So factions for pve stuff may look nice, but in the end it’s broken.

I played Daoc for years, and yes it also was unbalanced, but my side the least populated side on my server hibernia could go out and crush the Albions and midgards almost at will with proper cordination, there was no AOE cap in daoc,so you could stack mana chanters surrounded by tanks and healers and blow the crap outa of unorganized zergs, it was fun. I never played aion, so no clue about that game.

Point is, being out manned dosent always mean a loss,or youll never see end game bosses in pvp areas.

Outmanned only means an automatic loss in GW2 given Aoe caps and benefits given to zergballing.

deathklock.4961:

Tao.5096:

deathklock.4961:

The Elder Scrolls Online will have a multitude of public dungeons within Cyrodiil, which will feature quests, bosses, and loot. Unlike dungeons in the safe PvE areas of the game, however, anyone can enter these dungeons, including your enemies! Imagine working your way with a friend through the bowels of some ancient crypt, only to find a small group from an enemy alliance preparing to kill a boss at the end. There are few things more satisfying than teaming up with a PvE boss to take down a group of players

I saw it already in Aion.
You know how it looks like?
Dominating faction will hold weak faction out of the boss room, while they’re killing the boss.

In the end, statistically it’ll look like this
– your faction will manage to kill certain boss maybe 2-3 times for half a year, while the other faction will be full of loot from that boss.

Balanced factions? Haven’t seen a game where balance in factions was kept for a long time. It’s players mentality – I cba to go to zergfest and gain middle finger from that boss anyway, i.e. I skip it.^n players that think the same or very similar way.
You already lose a decent number on your side, or enemy does.

So factions for pve stuff may look nice, but in the end it’s broken.

I played Daoc for years, and yes it also was unbalanced, but my side the least populated side on my server hibernia could go out and crush the Albions and midgards almost at will with proper cordination, there was no AOE cap in daoc,so you could stack mana chanters surrounded by tanks and healers and blow the crap outa of unorganized zergs, it was fun. I never played aion, so no clue about that game.

Point is, being out manned dosent always mean a loss,or youll never see end game bosses in pvp areas.

Aion factions were not even close to being balanced, the outnumbered faction would maybe cap some stuff after the dominant faction got bored of showing up to defend against practially no player attackers. People complained about it to the point where they started putting the graphs of the lopsided results in their forum sigs, and on pretty much all the servers the results were eerily similar and embarrassing. One side had a much easier gaming experience overall (I’ve played both).

A little over a year after launch North American servers went from about a dozen to like four. But to be honest, I’m sure the unchecked botting, brutal RNG, PvP nerfs and lame class balance had something to do with it too.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

What version of WvW are you guys playing that conditions are good? In my version of WvW there are 20-30 AOE cleanses per second. I don’t think i’ve ever managed to even get 3 stacks of bleed on someone for longer than 2 seconds. Conditions are SO bad in WvW that you would literally be better off not attacking at all because many times the conditions get converted into boons…

In my version I roam on my own or with a couple other people. Yeah conditions aren’t a big deal when you are running around in a zerg ball, but they are devastating when you don’t have 40 other people carrying you.

Power builds for roaming were already handicapped, conditions don’t need an even bigger advantage. Anet needs to just split the game modes and stop giving WvW the short end of the stick with ”balance” changes.

With power builds getting nerfed there is no question that the condition duration foods have to go. It should have been done long ago.

zen.6091:

With power builds getting nerfed there is no question that the condition duration foods have to go. It should have been done long ago.

Then – condition duration food should be gone too. zzzz
They have the same equivalent to each other.

Oh wait, scratch that, to be fair, how about all consumable should be banned?
Stop making double standard comments. You already know how this old Beta is all about Power build, stop talking as if you guys are the one in weaker position. If you want to kill a running target, it’s easier to just backstab him with 10k+ damage with food and buffs than chipping him with condition (since most players now bring like 2~3 cleanse in WVW.)

Sreoom.3690:

Please ANET, just do it….

#RemoveAOECap

They said they can’t do it because of some technical issue. I’d love if they found a way to overcome this. I think removing the AoE cap could do wonders for this game’s WvW.

Funny there was no cap when the game was released….

Deified.7520:

Sreoom.3690:

Please ANET, just do it….

#RemoveAOECap

They said they can’t do it because of some technical issue. I’d love if they found a way to overcome this. I think removing the AoE cap could do wonders for this game’s WvW.

They also said they couldn’t fix culling for the same reason, because there would be too much lag. They’ll keep using this excuse as long as people will let them get away with it.

Warlord.9074:

Tao.5096:

looks like it’s time to re-trait chars into full def. Run around and shout
- Lol, I’m immortal~nana nana~

Condi bunker specs will be over the top now. The condi meta was terrible before now the condi bunker meta is kittened.
This is what the game has turned into all power builds will be inferior to these.
Few professions can do this effectivly.
Ranger BM Bunker Condi spec
Warrior shout condi spec
PU mes condi spec
Thief venom Pistol/Dager Dager Pistol Condi spec
Necro
Engi Perplex
Idk about gaudians they said they will be the kings of burning

Eles will be hit hardest by this whole thing. They will have to bunker to survive but I dont forsee an ele killing anyone now.

If every one is doing less dmg why would an ele need to bunker harder? Condition dmg is the same and most ele build to counter this to a point or with that in mind but now its going to be a lot harder for a thf to 2 shot an ele this is true for all crit dmg classes. If any thing this will let ele go a bit more all in glass.

Aomine.5012:

zen.6091:

With power builds getting nerfed there is no question that the condition duration foods have to go. It should have been done long ago.

Then – condition duration food should be gone too. zzzz
They have the same equivalent to each other.

Oh wait, scratch that, to be fair, how about all consumable should be banned?
Stop making double standard comments. You already know how this old Beta is all about Power build, stop talking as if you guys are the one in weaker position. If you want to kill a running target, it’s easier to just backstab him with 10k+ damage with food and buffs than chipping him with condition (since most players now bring like 2~3 cleanse in WVW.)

You are so right.

Let’s all roll exciting condi bunkers to roam with and zerg ball even harder in larger groups.

Remove AoE cap? Youre probably necro who wants more lootbags.

Neftex.7594:

Remove AoE cap? Youre probably necro who wants more lootbags.

Skill lag necro would be a fun build and very powerfully lol.

Umm, elementalist meteor swarm gets around the 5 cap problem.