Guild Wars 2

I know this might not be the best moment for this post with all the negativity around (let’s be honest, this subforum has been like that for a long time). kitten it, I’ll post it anyway.

So much potential… just left behind. It could easily have been the greatest RvR experience for years to come, with a little love and commitment. I am aware that resources are limited, but seeing what other game developers can pull off with a limited budget (both Indie and AAA) makes me wonder how disorganized ArenaNet really is.

DaoC, while outdated, just trumps WvW in so many ways, despite its terrible graphics. It was fun, incredibly rewarding and encouraged strategic play. WvW still has so much room for improvement.

I really don’t know if I should laugh or cry at this point. 2 and a half years without real communication and interaction between the devs and the wvw player base. It really feels like a hefty smack in the face.

I don’t want to play the doomsayer or anything but if WvW doesn’t get any meaningful updates this year then I don’t see a future for this game mode. Of course, it will always be filled with PVE players looking for karma but the players that love mass scale pvp will leave sooner or later.

A new map is nice and all, but we need fundamental changes like factions or alliances, immersion, real consequences, strategic play and most importantly smart avenues of communication between devs and player base.

Maybe it just wasn’t meant to be. Thanks for reading.

- A concerned RvR enthusiast

Edit: No TL:DR. Read it, it’s a short text.

One week event and wvw is dead i see.

If it was that easy to remove you from a game type for a game are you sure you like RvR as much as you say you do? DAoC made a lot of bad chose from what i understand that pushed most ppl out of there game (or they would be playing that game now and not GW2).

Every thing has potential when its not out or when your not playing it becuse then its just your own mind to make things up but when you sit down and realty think things out you find that your ideal of potential end up being comply unrealistic for real RvR set up.

They could always buff arrowcart damage by 100% next week to revive it.

OP has a point, RvR is and always will be popular amongst the competitive gaming communities. 3 years ago Anet gave us WvW and we were truly amazed thinking what a great start to an RvR system it was. Over the next 3 years Anet did nothing to enhance or extend it in any meaningful way and when they did make changes they didn’t actually listen to the WvW community at all, we got EOTM…..

Since then most of the big named RvR guilds have left, or just gone on really long sabbaticals waiting for the next game with a decent RvR system.

Had Anet actually advanced WvW with developers and small investment then WvW would have been truly massive. Millions of people watch streams of 5v5 barely knowing that fights can be soooo much bigger. With the last 2 years becoming TWITCH mania Arenanet has really lost touch with this one.
Your 5v5 system is nice and everything, but your ESPORT is not the best bit of competitive play in your game, WvW is….. Some of the viewing figures for the unsupported GvGs back when the big RvR guilds still existed were truly sensational.

Jski.6180:

One week event and wvw is dead i see.

If it was that easy to remove you from a game type for a game are you sure you like RvR as much as you say you do?

I am not sure where you are getting this from OP. He doesn’t seem to be complaining about this week’s event or any particular one week event. My eyesight is kinda poor atm though, so please point it out.

Kraljevo.2801:

A new map is nice and all, but we need fundamental changes like factions or alliances, immersion, real consequences, strategic play and most importantly smart avenues of communication between devs and player base.

The new map is potentially disastrous for lower pop servers.

Jski.6180:

One week event and wvw is dead i see.

If it was that easy to remove you from a game type for a game are you sure you like RvR as much as you say you do? DAoC made a lot of bad chose from what i understand that pushed most ppl out of there game (or they would be playing that game now and not GW2).

Every thing has potential when its not out or when your not playing it becuse then its just your own mind to make things up but when you sit down and realty think things out you find that your ideal of potential end up being comply unrealistic for real RvR set up.

I will completely disregard your first sentence since it shows that you didn’t properly read my post. I’ve been playing WvW since beta and I remain neutral towards the golem rush event.

DaoC made many mistakes, I agree. However, it was not the reason why the game died. It pretty much lost the war with WoW (In its golden age) in the subscription market, just like countless other games. I really see no shame there.

ArchonWing.9480:

Jski.6180:

One week event and wvw is dead i see.

If it was that easy to remove you from a game type for a game are you sure you like RvR as much as you say you do?

I am not sure where you are getting this from OP. He doesn’t seem to be complaining about this week’s event or any particular one week event. My eyesight is kinda poor atm though, so please point it out.

You think the post happen to come up with out this week in mind? Every thing posted from the start of this week to the end of this week is going to be mostly aimed at the golem event even if ppl do not come out and say it.

I was trying to point out fundamental problems with RvR games types the main ones being loot or not to loot and time gaps. These are not GW2 WvW problems but all RvR games will run into this.

Jski.6180:

ArchonWing.9480:

Jski.6180:

One week event and wvw is dead i see.

If it was that easy to remove you from a game type for a game are you sure you like RvR as much as you say you do?

I am not sure where you are getting this from OP. He doesn’t seem to be complaining about this week’s event or any particular one week event. My eyesight is kinda poor atm though, so please point it out.

You think the post happen to come up with out this week in mind? Every thing posted from the start of this week to the end of this week is going to be mostly aimed at the golem event even if ppl do not come out and say it.

It may be, but unless you know them personally, it just makes the conversation confusing when you’re trying to guess their motives especially when tone doesn’t exist on the internet. And even if it were one of the issues, it would still be a straw on a camel’s back.

I was trying to point out fundamental problems with RvR games types the main ones being loot or not to loot and time gaps. These are not GW2 WvW problems but all RvR games will run into this.

That’s sound at least.

Ok look at it this way “future of WvW” the first major thing you must deal with is having a persisting combat field 24hr/7weeks no one can play all the time and ppl do not and should not build there lives arone a game or it becomes something different then a game. You cant make ppl play when they do not want to simply so you will have gaps that others can take advantages of. Beyond simply cutting a game off “when i am not playing” there is no ture fix for this.
The other big problem is the loot or not to loot. This is a question of do you take fights for objectives that help your team or do you take fights to help your members’ gear loot etc.. This is less true for games like GW2 whom have a pve part of the game but still is a real question. If ppl karma tarn then they need other ppl to flip objectives back so they can keep karma training from the other team. This takes some level of numbers of players and in GW2 we see most ppl doing this. Is this something we need to forces ppl into playing how we feel they need to play?

Wvw (or any RvR game) will never be fair will never live up to expatiation or be with out ayoning things becuse your playing purely with other ppl who all have there own wants and needs you must find a way to enjoy what you can as seen by GvG groups who have made open field fighting into a big wvw event.

WvW is dead, I only play cos my guild plays. And even now some are moving onto other games.

2 years ago we had 8 hours raid every night. Now we are lucky to get 4 hours.
After 4 hours some of us play other games instead.

3 years to get 1 new map! That’s ridiculous time!
I was hoping HoT woudl bring back some players, but with this silly event, the bad pricing and the big finger to vet players; well good luck with that anet!

I think you’ll still have some players, mostly Pvers with tags who have EOTM experience who are use to slamming into other zergs 50v50. Teamspeak will be a thing of the past that only small roaming groups use with players who speak of the good ole days of commanders and zerg busting guilds like most of us do already still holding onto wvw for some reason till we realize, it has no future.

I think where anet fails to understand is the togetherness of a server, its roamers, and more importantly zerg busting guilds (old school FA comes to mind). Yeah, wvw score is meaningless at the end of the day, but its the people you get to hang out with and the fun times you share in guild raids with the satisfaction of going 15v30+. Those days seem mainly over. Whole guilds and players can transfer all they want, but the hype lasts for a few weeks then dies out and you find yourself or guild saying “this server sucks and has no community”. That’s because anet forces this garbage down our throats with golem events, bugs that have been since day one launch, and not communicating effectively to the wvw community and kills that community and drove off a lot of players.

I think for one second, if a dev was in a 15-20 player guild since launch and did raids multiple days a week they’d have a different view of “why people ONLY play wvw” cause many of us do and only we know why and understand why. Even though my original launch guild finally died a little over a year ago and those guys are long gone from the game, I still keep in touch email or a text here and there telling them how bad they are at necro or thief. I know its just a game but you feel like you create friendships and you move onto the next big mmo willing to spend money on a game just to hang with those same people. An anet dev won’t understand that in my opinion. They won’t get the thrill of old school wvw in leading 15 of your guildmates, who you trained, spent time making synergy builds with, and worked together to grow as a guild and take on a massive zerg to wipe them and demoralize them. Anet devs will never have the pleasure of going 1v3 on their necro, even though most call it the worst roaming class and you playing that necro have some satisfaction of saying “yeah, i 3v1’d you guys with a necro”.

The future is a just a colored tag with 50 players on it mindlessly spamming keys on a champ on a eotm style map. Chances are the bls and eb are removed from the game in the future. Chances are, most of us will finally give up on them and the game that could have been. I for one am starting to taper off more and more each week just bored with the game. Builds are still broken and now this golem mess.

Kraljevo.2801:

Jski.6180:

One week event and wvw is dead i see.

If it was that easy to remove you from a game type for a game are you sure you like RvR as much as you say you do? DAoC made a lot of bad chose from what i understand that pushed most ppl out of there game (or they would be playing that game now and not GW2).

Every thing has potential when its not out or when your not playing it becuse then its just your own mind to make things up but when you sit down and realty think things out you find that your ideal of potential end up being comply unrealistic for real RvR set up.

I will completely disregard your first sentence since it shows that you didn’t properly read my post. I’ve been playing WvW since beta and I remain neutral towards the golem rush event.

DaoC made many mistakes, I agree. However, it was not the reason why the game died. It pretty much lost the war with WoW (In its golden age) in the subscription market, just like countless other games. I really see no shame there.

The only mistake DAoC made was introduce PvE into a game that wasn’t designed for it. There is plenty of documentation in regards to this as to why things are called bounty points, etc. PvE or more importantly the basic quest system was put into place only for a means to an end – i.e. level. That was even changed a bit over time with the addition of Darkness Falls, experience bonus for fighting near claimed towers, Red Caps and other mobs that you could chain pull to power level, etc.

Yes, we had a dragon you could zerg down but that is all it was, a mindless zerg attacking a single mob. Over time as few as 3 to 4 people could master it. Same with the boss at the end of Darkness Falls – zerg, zerg, zerg – mob rules. Frontiers changed RvR basic rule set and that didn’t bode well. Then add in Trials of Atlantis with master levels (10) that took for ever to complete PVE stuff, mixed in with advanced weapons that you had to farm scrolls for, well, it messed everything up.

Back to the OP and point -the future in my opinion doesn’t look bright. No competition so they are not forced to do much of anything. Expansion pack so far hasn’t showed anything in regards to WvW enhancements. Loot is still more favorable in PvE to include weapon textures. Server balance in regards to wall clock 24×7 coverage wins. Top 3 think they are the pros – bottom three hate life – middle ground are the life and blood of the WvW community yet can’t move up because they hit the population coverage stature of limitations…

Furthermore, and I’ll leave it at this. Back to reference DaOC – one thing that they had that GW2 doesn’t is the Camelot Herald. A portal that listed the top 25 players by class, guild, and alliance weekly. It didn’t stop at 25 – you could search names and find yours to see how you did. Realm ranks, kills, and other stats which gave a reason to continue on as well as bragging rights.

I’ll end it here. They tried to copy and implement RvR – we can clearly see that upon launch. We had orbs, DaOC has relics. That failed, so they removed them. They gave us ruins – no one uses them. They gave a new map – EoTM – karma train and a way to gain levels quickly. Everything they have tried or suggested or even gave a slight interested in has stopped and become stagnant.

So the future, in my personal opinion as I only play this format, does not look bright because there is no attention paid to the format.

Aren’t they adding something called adventure boards?

Future?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Who-plays-WvW-only/page/2#post5295851

AmberUK.5380:

Aren’t they adding something called adventure boards?

It’s PVE exclusive I think.

DAoC just got old, really, the game came out like what, 20 years ago and still nothing has touched it for open world PvP for me.

DAoC wasnt without its setbacks, if you played from day one im sure you would remember no diminishing returns on any CC, you could be repeatedly stunned until you were dead. But as the game progressed they made some seriously groundbreaking improvements that still impact MMOs today.

The Herald was a great addition, you could check who was ranked what for your class, weekly or overall. Where your guild sat in the rankings, how many points they had earned that week, even an interactive map of RvR with who had claimed what towers/keeps claimed.

ToA(Trials of Atlantis) was far far too PvE grindy for a RvR centric game, i had the harp and i had to kill blue fairies to get it XP, or giants in RvR for my belt. And the power curve was immense, a group of ML10 with all artifacts lvl 10 vs a group without MLs or Artifacts was far too much in the favour of someone with the expansion making it a must have(and the many many hours of PvE grinding that went along with it).

It was kind of telling that they even had a set of servers specifically where ToA was disabled, Ector, Gareth , Lamorak which eventually became the Bossiney cluster where i spent most of my time 8v8’ing on Agramon.

My personal favourite "Vyxar was just killed by Bushka in Emain Macha ".

I feel i should sign off with my DAoC characters.

Explicit RR11 Cleric
Ornulfr RR8 Skald
Heilgarr RR9 Healer

[KoN] ~ Bossiney 8v8 guild

DAoC as awesome as it was would never fly today with the current gamer culture and the biggest problem anyone has trying to replicate that magic is no one can actually agree on what made it so special in the first place. It was just a moment in time that worked, got us addicted and then dashed our hearts out on the rocks over years of really weird choices. All games have bumbs along the way but sometimes things just click long enough to come out just right long enough to turn on our inner pavlov.

I agree with the OP, Guild Wars 2 has a ton of wasted potential where WvW is concerned but I originally had a lot of respect for ANET saying this is what we are doing and want it to be and then sticking to their vision even on the stuff I didn’t agree with but that was 3 years ago and now I am not sure there is anyone there who knows what they want WvW to accomplish. I hope the new HoT map proves me wrong and while it looks pretty pretty with some cool stuff I doubt it’ll hit the mark for those dreaming of RvR DAoC days, might be best if we let that dream die. There is no going back again.

PariahX.6970:

I hope the new HoT map proves me wrong and while it looks pretty pretty with some cool stuff I doubt it’ll hit the mark for those dreaming of RvR DAoC days, might be best if we let that dream die. There is no going back again.

If they implement some of the stuff from the CDI threads then it might have a chance but they seem utterly uninclined to actually do anything players actually want.

The future of WvW is PvE. Confirmed by Mike himself

There is no future for WvW.

Give it 6 months after the expansion comes out and i predict 1 of 2 things.

1- The new map is populated mostly by EOTM K-Train farmers and Anet loves that, leaving us WvW with nothing to do other than join the K-Train or solo roam/duel or troll K-Trains.

2-WvW decends into a cespool of hate toward Anet and they shut it down altogether.

For anyone interested, here is “The Future of WvW”, posted by Devon Carver 2 years ago:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/devon-carver-on-the-future-of-world-vs-world/

Sad that so many people don’t even understand this game mode.. Now everyone is probably going to hate on me but really there is more PVE in it than you think. You are fighting the environment to take it over and it is up to the other players to stop you.

Many of us play it for just the fights and that is fine as I would rather have fights more than anything but if you actually look at WvW it is has PVE in it. Always has been this way and always will be this way.

Keep quoting devs saying they don’t know their own game mode when really it looks like many don’t even know that this game mode is every game mode all wrapped up in one except you have the freedom to do what ever you want.

Unlike PVE where all you have to do is PVE or PVP where all you have is 5 on 5 fights. WvW has it all and has players that like to do it all.

Kraljevo.2801:

So much potential… just left behind. It could easily have been the greatest RvR experience for years to come, with a little love and commitment. I am aware that resources are limited,

[..]

I really don’t know if I should laugh or cry at this point. 2 and a half years without real communication and interaction between the devs and the wvw player base. It really feels like a hefty smack in the face.

I don’t want to play the doomsayer or anything but if WvW doesn’t get any meaningful updates this year then I don’t see a future for this game mode. Of course, it will always be filled with PVE players looking for karma but the players that love mass scale pvp will leave sooner or later.

A new map is nice and all, but we need fundamental changes like factions or alliances, immersion, real consequences, strategic play and most importantly smart avenues of communication between devs and player base.

Maybe it just wasn’t meant to be. Thanks for reading.

- A concerned RvR enthusiast

I agree with quite a lot of that. Here are my opnions;

• Communication/feedback should be a continuous process, and while the CDIs were a great start, they ended a year ago and some problematic elements haven’t changed.
  To arenanet’s credit, they did address lots of the CDI concerns. Here is the list for reference: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi

• I feel that if nothing else, the current Golem Rush event has emphasised that Omega golems are are too good/too difficult to counter, especially when escorted by a blob/zerg. This should be a simple case of tweaking some numbers. Maybe up the toughness of tier 2 gates?

• In terms of meaningful content, I wonder what do you have in mind Kraljevo.2801? Could you offer some examples please?

• My biggest issue and one which wasn’t touched after the CDI about it was World Population.
  I think maybe we need to take another look at potential solutions.