Guild Wars 2

Unlike real-life, in gw2 being on top of a wall is not an advantage. A caster’s perspective.

There is simply less wall than floor:
-Every spot of a tower front wall can be covered permanently by 3 ranged AoE players.
-You are more vulnerable because walls limit your movement and mistakes can make you fall off.
-Enemy AoE fields can be put on the side of the wall. Which is faster to do but provides the same range.

Then there is the ledge around the walls, presumably to stop you from falling off.
But i would rather not have it.
-The little ledge breaks line of sight even when the target is clearly visible. Walking right up to it, it eats away a good chunk of your view cone, right where you need to aim.
-To hit something near the base of the tower/keep you must (not always) jump on top of the ledge, which is waaay trickier than the attacker who can just move in- and out of range.

I am sure there’s more.

How about a +range buff inside a castle or, if possible, just on top of walls? 10% extra range makes defending more pleasurable and the game more realistic.

i have found you are not effected by the need to stand right on the edge to AoE a group of attackers in open field play i.e a nice high grassy bank.

i have to say i was looking forward to standing on the ramparts showering attacking foe with AoE (ok so 5 of you anyway) but alas i have to do some delicate placement with my Ele first before i can even think about it.

oh and in the heat of battle whoops i fell. squish = death

Yea I think this fits with the complaint that someone made that when castles and such existed they were hard to take and easy to defend but on WvW they are easier to take and hard to defend. I would not be against making the walls high enough to where only sieges can reach and MAYBE give a buff to players inside to have farther attack range since they are higher their attacks should reach farther, you know, gravity only effects objects vertical speed not horizontal speed which is why wars where always won by the team with the higher ground and sieges were really the only thing that was used to attack walls, doors and people on top of walls. They also had carts to carry extra supplies to build what was needed, dolyaks are great but a siege that can be built, filled with 100 supplies or so and controlled by a player or two from a supply camp or tower to supply players in building sieges to be the main source of attack rather than having players just attacking the wall themselves. Also buff Engineer Mortar damage.

The whole ledge = no LoS really does need to go, it is rather annoying when you can get AoE blasted to death and not even be able to really attack back. Honestly the biggest issue is with AoEs and their ability to hit almost everything on a wall, save for random safe spots where you cant do much back to them. Honestly I think there should be some sort of upgrade to help damper the AoEs in some way, except for something like an arrowcart raining on a wall. Make it more or a siege battle instead of “Spam AOE here” fight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machicolation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder-hole

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merlon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoarding_

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_slit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drawbridge

Why “Line of Site” issues were present in the real world, and how castle builders found ways to use them to their advantage. Every time I do keep defense I wonder why the game designers couldn’t have spent 5 minutes on google to find those items and let us upgrade our keeps with them.

well maybe combos could be the way to go.
- if a player has oil on them your ele burn does more damage.
- using fields to add extras to Rams catas acs

My favorite place to defend is Borderlands garrison south side, because it’s got those nice wooden bits with no walls. Clear sign that this is a problem.

On the other hand, though, if you can’t area-attack the wall effectively from down below, some classes have almost no way to participate in the siege and even dealing with light siege gear becomes super-frustrating.

Maybe having the ledges block projectiles situationally, like Smoke Screen does, would be a good start?

On my elementist I find being on the ground easier like the OP stated. However, on my mesmer being on the ground means seeing obstructed about a billion times. That same knee wall that blocks your line of site means I can’t hit a thing on the wall unless they jump up and stay there long enough to target them and get off a skill.

LOS issues need to addressed. But I don’t think removing the knee wall is the answer. Frankly, I find yanking people off the wall to pretty lame and no knee walls would result in that tactic being used far more often.

What would be nice is a knee wall that prevented you from getting pulled over but didn’t block LOS.

Another option would be to change how LOS is calculated. Make the calculation from the attackers head to the targets head (well a fixed head height so everybody is equal) instead of what currently appears to be feet to feet. This would also fix having a pebble between you and your target giving you the obstructed message as well.

I reckon removing/fixing the LOS issue for defenders on the wall but leaving it there for attackers below, that would be a reasonable method of giving the defenders an advantage.

A lot of good ideas here.

My main is GS Guardian, but my alt is lvl 32 ranger. I do find it a lot safer to attack something rather than defending without siege.

I can’t believe this issue still exists. It is very annoying that as any ranged class, Ele, Ranger or even Engi with a mortor which shoot upward in an arc, I can not LOS the ground of invaders, yet they can AOE the top of the wall all day long.

As has been stated, castles and towers should be easier to defend than they are to attack. I think back to the days of DAoC, sieges were fun because they were a challenge and when you took a tower or castle it was actually an accomplishment. Especially the upgraded structures, because not only did they have reinforced walls and gates, more guards, etc., but they also actually got taller as the levels upgraded.

As it stands, WvW for me is very frustrating and very lackluster, to the point of ruining the game, when trying to defend.

For every LOS issue from the outside attacking inward, there’s an equally appropriate spot inside defending outward. You just need to experiment.

Frye.4608:

How about a +range buff inside a castle or, if possible, just on top of walls? 10% extra range makes defending more pleasurable and the game more realistic.

If you are using projectiles you do get a range increase for being higher up, not much but it is there.

However I do agree that being on a wall in the real world is a huge advantage and in the game the only thing it’s good for is keeping people form getting into melee range of you.

Possible Fix: put a roof over the wall so that aoe’s only hit a small portion of the ‘front’ of the wall. They will still be able to use standard projectiles to hit you if you push up but AoE’s on the walls won’t be so oppressive. Possible downside arrow carts would be much harder to kill if even possible, but I feel arrow cart’s need a rework anyhow but that’s another topic.

This is only an issue with this game because of the amount of ground marks available, and how ground marks work. This wasn’t an issue in DAOC. Here people mark up the walls, and those standing on the walls can’t get near to cast down because marks extend beyond just the side of the walls. Ground marking covers up so much space that makes height a disadvantage. I’m not sure if they can ever change this, unless they make it so ground marks can’t clip over the top of the walls.

Also oil and canons are suicide to even utilize because of the ground marks and again, the radius of aoe’s. Personally I think those operating oil should not be able to be touched. Canons, a bit too powerful to be given the same invulns so they can be left as is. But they shouldn’t be so easy to destroy.

Lastly, they need to either fix zoom hacks with arrow carts or change how arrow carts work completely. It’s stupid to have ac’s built outside that can destroy literally everything inside. It’s equally dumb to be having a last stand at the lord’s room only to get rained on by ac’s outside that should never even be able to hit you. Last stand at lord room was a big thing with DAOC, defenders who are outnumbered actually had a chance at the lord room defense. Here? You might as well just waypoint before gates fall. Because if they can’t kill you with a push, they’ll build 100 ac’s and unrealistically fire into a totally covered room with you having no place to get out of dodge.

One last thing, height is also a disadvantage when you’re just fighting group to group or zerg to zerg. Because you lose 1/4 of your raid just by those wall hazing below. And the amount of pulls in this game? It’s suicide to be on top of walls. Ridiculous. So many lil things that are wrong with WvW in this game, I guess that’s why many still have fond memories of DAOC.

gavyne.6847:

Here people mark up the walls, and those standing on the walls can’t get near to cast down because marks extend beyond just the side of the walls.

Build AC halfway up the stairs. Then YOU get the advantage.

Jayne.9251:

gavyne.6847:

Here people mark up the walls, and those standing on the walls can’t get near to cast down because marks extend beyond just the side of the walls.

Build AC halfway up the stairs. Then YOU get the advantage.

Easily destroyed by an ac outside using zoom hacks.

gavyne.6847:

Jayne.9251:

gavyne.6847:

Here people mark up the walls, and those standing on the walls can’t get near to cast down because marks extend beyond just the side of the walls.

Build AC halfway up the stairs. Then YOU get the advantage.

Easily destroyed by an ac outside using zoom hacks.

Nope. Have tested it. It works They can see beyond the wall and top of inner keeps, but cannot target immediately next to wall.

gavyne.6847:

Jayne.9251:

gavyne.6847:

Here people mark up the walls, and those standing on the walls can’t get near to cast down because marks extend beyond just the side of the walls.

Build AC halfway up the stairs. Then YOU get the advantage.

Easily destroyed by an ac outside using zoom hacks.

:D, it is meta. so sad when u have the outnumbered debuff on you and u see a zerg(30-40ish) using 2 ac’s (built inside walls were cant be damage either) with zoom hack and packet editor for faster spam cleaning all the siege to avoid castle getting defended by 5-7 players… GG

Jayne.9251:

Build AC halfway up the stairs. Then YOU get the advantage.

Good way to defend but still does not cover the fact that being on top of wall is not advantageous.

Zoom hack goes both ways just a matter of who builds first/more.

How do you see the inner oil at keep double gates? I have found that almost impossible to attack as a mesmer.

gavyne.6847:

Jayne.9251:

gavyne.6847:

Here people mark up the walls, and those standing on the walls can’t get near to cast down because marks extend beyond just the side of the walls.

Build AC halfway up the stairs. Then YOU get the advantage.

Easily destroyed by an ac outside using zoom hacks.

Zoom hacks? With the new camera, you don’t even need zoom hacks anymore. You can legit wipe all siege in nearly every tower using the new camera settings. Obviously Anet didn’t bother to think about how the change would affect WvW.

Lord Kuru.3685:

gavyne.6847:

Jayne.9251:

gavyne.6847:

Here people mark up the walls, and those standing on the walls can’t get near to cast down because marks extend beyond just the side of the walls.

Build AC halfway up the stairs. Then YOU get the advantage.

Easily destroyed by an ac outside using zoom hacks.

Zoom hacks? With the new camera, you don’t even need zoom hacks anymore. You can legit wipe all siege in nearly every tower using the new camera settings. Obviously Anet didn’t bother to think about how the change would affect WvW.

I thought the new camera options were specifically introduced to allow everyone an easy access to the trick. There was also some line of sight limitations to Arrow Carts so that you cannot shoot them every location you can turn your camera to.

It would be interesting to see how it would affect defending/attacking by making walls non targetable by AoEs, which should make it easier for defenders.

The supposed limits on arrowcart line of sight don’t seem to work.

I would certainly welcome line of sight limit on arrowcarts from outside a fort. I have been killed many times by arrowcarts firing ridiculous distances into towers and keeps. If you can’t see then you can’t hit, same as for rangers.

An alternative would be you can only see enemies and siege your character can see while removing the AoE fire restrictions from eles and rangers. No line of sight from character means you can’t see it either. This would be more reflective of real life, speculative fire on areas where suspect enemies might be has been a fairly common tactic.

Replacing the edge with a much thinner one that only affects movement may also help but that depends on game dynamics.

All for adding trajectory to AC’s, so can no longer shoot AC’s over walls and under supply roof from 5 cm from the outside wall etc. I don’t even care about the realism of this, I’m just tired of how gamey it is, and completely removes the point of building siege in many situations.

Wouldn’t mind a fix to the LOS in general, for ex elementalists can be just as bad at this, and wipe out entire walls of siege in short time.

Either reducing the distance you can zoom out, or increase the height of the walls so that you can’t look over it. There should be an advantage to defending.