Guild Wars 2

I don’t really have the tools to do anything other than pick off stragglers, or assassinate people in open field zerg vs zerg fights.

I mean, sure, I can occasionally scorpion wire someone off a wall if I’m lucky and it’s not obstructed or just outright misses. But the 900 range limit, lack of decent AoE, and melee-heavy attacks of the thief really limit what I can do besides assault supply camps and kill yaks.

I just get really annoyed whenever I end up in front of a gate or on the walls defending. I feel like the Thief is really kind of useless in any sort of assault or defense situation. I guess I could run supply, but that is a pretty thankless task, and doesn’t generally net me any EXP or Karma. Granted, controlling camps and supply is an important part of WvW, but I don’t like feeling as thought I’m being pigeon-holed into that role.

Am I off base here?

(double posted in the thief forums)

You’re doing it wrong. My shortbow messes people up horribly, two, three, even four of them at a time. Unless you get the jump on me, I’m basically untouchable. Haste allows me to either:

a) finish you and your two closest friends off with short bow
b) take even a tanky character to near 0 hp in a matter of seconds with pistol whip.

We have so much utility it’s not even funny, combined with absolutely sick dps. You need to know to keep moving, when to stealth, when to shadow step, when to blink away, when to aoe and when to switch weapons and jump in for a quick finisher. There are a lot of videos out there that show how this is done. Maybe you just need some more practice?

thief in my opinion is one of the best all around wvwvw profs try experimenting more with your trait spec and skills you use and the trait slot selections I also highly recommend using the invader pvp gear as far as tactics maby look to try to start mimicing other thiefs through twitch.tv or youtube videos/streams and try to grasp why they do what they do under all the circumstances

To make thief even more hilarious of a class to use in WvW, and all classes alike, do this (and you might as well, because no doubt will they nerf it soon):

Buy dam debris from some foreman in queensdale. It hits for like 3-6k crit and knocks them down for 4 seconds. No cooldown. Only set back is that it takes 3-4 seconds to equip another one and another 1-2 seconds for cast time. This is a good combo to use with it: throw boulder, dancing dagger twice, steal, and a few normal attacks should finish them off.

Oh, I have no problems in open field WvW. But open field doesn’t earn points for your server outside of camps. I’m specifically having problems with sieges. Gate assaults and defense and the like.

1v1 or even 1v2, I can take almost anyone. Picking people out of a zerg isn’t the issue. It’s doing the things that actually mean something long-term for your server where I feel thief is very weak.

900 range is almost crippling in any kind of siege situation. Choking Gas and Cluster bomb are mediocre, but mostly due to being condition based and again, only 900 range.

Every other class has a 1200 or better range option, why not thieves? And if you have a siege specific build you’re using, please share it with me, because I’ve spent hours trying to figure something out.

Cluster bomb mediocre? I have plenty of kills from it, sieging and being sieged. Detonating it before it hits the ground gives a better spread, more creets and the bleeds on multiple targets, when triated for longer/more damaging bleeds is really good at keeping the numbers flowing.

If I am not forcing people off the walls I turn to the gate (until the giant steamroll zerg comes and crushes us)

Thief is one of the best overall classes in the game, what are u talking about?

Clusterbomb is absolutely devastating in siege combat. I spec for crit and +crit damage. One properly detonated cluster bomb does damage that no other aoe effect seems to come close to, plus it’s fire and forget, which honestly is a luxury. Whether I’m defending or attacking, it really does tear the opponent up. Learning proper placement, and maximizing the number of clusterbombs you can fire off in rapid succession takes quite a bit of practice. But once you get a feel for it, you can really tear people up, especially if you have the high ground.

I’ll agree 900 range is a pain. On the other hand, I can’t imagine having 1200 range on my shortbow. It would basically equate to murdering entire groups of players with little fear of ever being touched at all. That 300 range deficit gives your opponent some kind of a fighting chance.

Clustrbomb medicore?! It is one of the most hard hitting AOE skills in the game. Pro tip it has 1200 range not 900. People are so lazy that they are not even reading tooltips.

Not only do I have to punch myself in the junk every time I encounter a thief, I have to see them bragging in wvw forums. Play a necro and you’ll be happy with your thief at half power

Interesting… because for me the more I WvW as a Thief, the more I like it
sure I have to admit the it requires time to master this class and not every build or weapon set is the best for WvW..
but this doesn’t occur to every class?

Kolly.9872:

Interesting… because for me the more I WvW as a Thief, the more I like it
sure I have to admit the it requires time to master this class and not every build or weapon set is the best for WvW..
but this doesn’t occur to every class?

No, not every build and weapon set is the best for WvW. But thief options are apparently limited to “use SB; spam 2.” if I’m reading what people are saying right. Or rather I should say: “Spam 2 with great skill and practice.”

So much of what makes a thief a thief just isn’t at all useful in taking anything with walls. Steal doesn’t work. Most stealth skills are useless from the top of a wall(except refuge). Melee is weak in most every aspect of WvW.

I’m not trying to say that thief is BAD at WvW. All I’m saying is that I just feel really limited in my options.

I’m not trying to say that thief is BAD at WvW. All I’m saying is that I just feel really limited in my options.

It depends how you want to play. That is the point. Melee isn’t useless, you need to work out when is best to use it. I like using Sword/Piistol to stun those heading for the keep door, to them watch ally’s join me in taking them down before entering. When you are on a keep wall, what do you expect? you can only range anyway, SB / P/P is pretyy much the only way you could go anyway.

You seem to want too much.

Actually, what I want is the same 1200 base range weapon set that EVERY other class has available for use so that I can perform on equal footing in siege situations. Instead of a single attack.

Also, I never said that melee was useless. I said it was ‘weak in most situations.’ ZvZ, stepping out of line tends to get you slain, even as a thief that can sometimes stealth to get away. Melee can’t be used from the top of a wall, and dog-piling on enemies who are stupid enough to be outside the walls alone and running for a gate can be done more effectively from range, including immobilizes and stuns.

SB and P/P again suffer from 900 range. Which brings me back to either spamming Cluster, or putting myself in a position of extreme risk in order to get any other shot off. Everything a thief is gets boiled down to mashing the 2 button for sieges. And I’m pretty sure it’s well established by Heartseeker that spam strategies are not what Anet intends for people to be doing. Nor is it very much fun to do so, regardless of the supposed effectiveness of perfectly timed shots.

All of this contributes to what makes me feel like Thief is lacking for WvW. The class is strong in the areas that seem to matter the least in WvW.

Anyway, thanks for the input, guys. I guess it’s time for me to go buy an expensive SB and reinforce my 2 key. :/

Thieves are amazing in WvW. Not only can we drop someone in 2 shots, but massive AoE damage. 5k-6k cluster bombs. Not only do you have amazing damage, but you can escape from almost anything. Not good at attacking a tower/keep? Cluster bomb at the wall, hitting players for like I said 5k to 6k damage. Bounce attack to keep people off of cannons/burning oil? Also we are the best scouts out of all classes.
I am sorry but, your doing something wrong.

I frigging hate taking down a thief in WvW or sPvP. That is the one class that I can’t figure out.

Where are you getting these 5-6k cluster bombs from? Mine only hit for 1-2k. :/

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

I frigging hate taking down a thief in WvW or sPvP. That is the one class that I can’t figure out.

In sPVP I love the class. But then, there aren’t any sPVP maps where you assault a wall filled with ranged NPCs, arrow carts, and enemy players.

I would also like to know how people are getting such crits. Please, for the second time: post your spec and build. A nice video of this amazing siege tactic would be nice too, although I understand that’s not something you can just whip out of nowhere.

Your job is defined to this, as long as personal combat matters;

Look for a warrior: Signets help.
Steal their axe thing
drop Shadow Refugee with 3 other thief friends
wait for the zerg to pass
use that and dancing dagger
cluster bomb everywhere
???
loot drops.

You can literally kill off TENS of zerg with this, I did it before.

Thief is far and away one of the most potent professions in WvW compared to the others.

if you want to go shortbow, why not go full range? play an elementalist or engineer. Even warrior with rifle do mass dmg at 1200 range, 900 just doesn’t cut it.

I think the point of thief is to satisfy the thirst for blood in some players. If you want to take a guy down, you probably have the best chance to succeed and get away with a thief (in WvW of course, we not talking about sPvP here). High risk, high reward, in a very strange sense…

my thief and ele had gotten roughly the same number of kills (3k each), but the thief took twice as long to get there. For that 3K, the thief died close to 300 times. The lifetime death on that ele had just went pass 50…

Eliteseraph, I understand your desire of a 1200 weapon. But you can’t have everything.
I play a Guardian and we have a couple low DPS skills (all skills are low DPS actually) for 1200m. I’d happily swap with your Shortbow. Every class has it’s ups and downs, I suggest you try an other class and see what state they’re in. You’ll be happy with your thief.

What I hear of Cluster Bomb makes it sound pretty good. You can spam it at the sides of the wall to hit loads on top. As Guardian I do that too, but with a far weaker AOE attack.

Yes the range limit of 900 is too short for most siege situations. Cluster bomb is great, the lobbing action lets you get to hard to reach folks, however it is slow and requires you to be very close and in range of counter attack and you are forever dancing around siege circles.

Is that a bad thing? Undecided. We are good at other areas of WvW so maybe that is the trade off. Play to your strengths in my opinion. Typically if a fight is going to be a long drawn out battle, I just go do something else unless there are some very nice clumps to cluster bomb without having to stand in 100 red circles. I will play close-ish and come back for the push inside.

I’m elementalist and I’ll give you fireball skill if you give me heartseeker. Enjoy 1200 range of fireball, or whatever 1200 range skill you want, take it, but just make sure to give me heartseeker and those variety of stealth skills too. Oh and those 6 times of dodges and even more additional evade of short bow 3 etc etc…

I really enjoy thief in WvW. Range 900 is fine for most of our attacks. If i had 1200 range on everything it would just cause a whole lot more OP thief threads on these forums. Clusterbomb is amazing, 6-10k hits depending on the squishyness of the class.

sounds like thief just isn’t your playstyle. As a thief (with my build in particular) I will cluster bomb which does ok damage on the bleed but what I do that changes a fight is go BEHIND the enemy and take out their guys, take out their siege, or jump off and make sure the guys that go down get KBed because I can do it from stealth and get away.

Ohh and few things are more fun then going in, hitting spin to win, then see everyone back off as your force starts to push them around.

Now if you want to stand on a keep and bring the pain, this is the wrong class.

OP is just not very good at thief I suppose.

Pretty sure Thief is one of the most nub-friendliest classes next to Warrior.

Alright, so here’s what I’m getting out of this: you don’t like Thief. That’s plenty fine; maybe try another profession.

Thief is really pretty versatile. They’ve got a strong, spammable AoE for sieges which is more than most can boast, but for anything else they’re also one of the most mobile, burstiest professions with a substantial number of escape buttons available to them.

If you have a good idea of how you want to play, I’m sure folks can come up with some good suggestions for a different profession for you.

boobzooka.3521 – u r doing it wrong. I’ve seen thieves take on 3 people at a time, solo, and just wreck them.

It is a pretty sad state of affairs when someone says “I can take 1v1 easy and 1v2 most of the time” and then finds room to complain!?!?

Seriously, I would love to be able to say I can take 1v1 easy. I think MOST elementalists would say that. Sure, I can take on most 1v1, but its a life and death struggle EVERY time. But a 1v2 and I’m pretty much guaranteed a loss.

This is all WvW btw, not sPvP. 2 different animals completely.

Eliteseraph.4970:

Oh, I have no problems in open field WvW. But open field doesn’t earn points for your server outside of camps. I’m specifically having problems with sieges. Gate assaults and defense and the like.

1v1 or even 1v2, I can take almost anyone. Picking people out of a zerg isn’t the issue. It’s doing the things that actually mean something long-term for your server where I feel thief is very weak.

900 range is almost crippling in any kind of siege situation. Choking Gas and Cluster bomb are mediocre, but mostly due to being condition based and again, only 900 range.

Every other class has a 1200 or better range option, why not thieves? And if you have a siege specific build you’re using, please share it with me, because I’ve spent hours trying to figure something out.

And is every other class as good at 1v1 (or even 1v2)? can every other class move around the map as fast? Can every class get in out of combat as easily? Does every other class have the same level of escapability? Can every other class do the same level of damage?

The answer to all of those is ‘no’, classes are not balanced on one thing (e.g – range) in total isolation, if you want more range play another class, you can’t have everything on one class.

Such strange responses. It’s pretty simple. The OP feels limited by the 900 range on Shortbow attacks. I do too.

Clusterbomb is nice, but it travels slow and really isn’t as devastating as some other posters are saying. Clusterbomb also has a 1200 range, so I really don’t see any reason why not to give Trickshot a 1200 range as well. The only place it will really help is siege battles and make things a little more fun.

Edit: I also don’t see thieves as powerful as the rest of you. Personally, I get absolutely wrecked by warriors and mesmers.

Coldin.2840:

Such strange responses. It’s pretty simple. The OP feels limited by the 900 range on Shortbow attacks. I do too.

Clusterbomb is nice, but it travels slow and really isn’t as devastating as some other posters are saying. Clusterbomb also has a 1200 range, so I really don’t see any reason why not to give Trickshot a 1200 range as well. The only place it will really help is siege battles and make things a little more fun.

EVERY OTHER CLASSES FEEL LIMITS!! Why you can’t stand one single limit when you have multiple dash, 6 or more dodges, guaranteed escaping with stealth, dominating damage with HS, such survivability and versatile utilities? WHAT other classes have those spec in a single profession?

If I were you, I’d just ask dev to give me one exclusive profession that has most survivability and damage and like 800,000 boss-like health with say 5,000 range, just only for you. How about that. Isn’t sound sweet?

EnochDagor.6185:

boobzooka.3521 – u r doing it wrong. I’ve seen thieves take on 3 people at a time, solo, and just wreck them.

It is a pretty sad state of affairs when someone says “I can take 1v1 easy and 1v2 most of the time” and then finds room to complain!?!?

Seriously, I would love to be able to say I can take 1v1 easy. I think MOST elementalists would say that. Sure, I can take on most 1v1, but its a life and death struggle EVERY time. But a 1v2 and I’m pretty much guaranteed a loss.

This is all WvW btw, not sPvP. 2 different animals completely.

You pick 1v1 fights, that’s why.
What I want had always, and will always be karma, for that I have to cap (and not 170pt or 340pt caps, need to keep 680pt caps rolling, 2 per tick, 10k per hour. To do that I have to stay in zergs and fight with gangs, where melee classes obviously have some disadvantages (so I used dual pistol for some time).

tbh, I don’t think build or playing style really mattered (in these big gangbangs). Weapon choice does, but what’s more important is to predict movement of the line of contact, and of course, always stay on the flanks. Thieves are just not very good frontline skirmishers, heartseeker, subtlety build, or pistols. Flanks are better, even they don’t offer as much scoring opportunities as the center.

And that brings about this range issue. Longer range mean even more on the flanks.

But sure, if you want to fight small group or 1v1s, thief has better escapes than any other class, and its finishing ability is probably top 2.

LOL thieves have the easy life stop complaining. You have twice the burst and twice the survivability of an elementalist.

rekina.6078:

EVERY OTHER CLASSES FEEL LIMITS!! Why you can’t stand one single limit when you have multiple dash, 6 or more dodges, guaranteed escaping with stealth, dominating damage with HS, such survivability and versatile utilities? WHAT other classes have those spec in a single profession?

Because we don’t get all of that at once. Unless I’m missing the secret cow level where you unlock the 30/30/30/30/30 spec and loot the carrionknightrampagingvalkyrie armor set that gives you unlimited endurance and permastealth.

/sarcasm, in case you missed it. :/

Thieves, just like every other class, have to spec into a role. Sometimes that role is glass cannon, blow you up in 3 seconds. Other times it’s extreme survival and evasion. In order to do one thing very well, we give up power in another area. This isn’t unique to thieves, nor are thieves immortal gods of the battlefield, despite what some people would have you believe.

It is a pretty sad state of affairs when someone says “I can take 1v1 easy and 1v2 most of the time” and then finds room to complain!?!?

For the record, I never said it would be easy! My exact words were: “1v1 or even 1v2, I can take almost anyone.” Which isn’t all that bold of a statement when you stop and consider what ANY fully geared level 80 can do in WvW when specifically looking for such situations.

Also, just because I can take on 1v2 doesn’t mean I get away with that every time. I’d like to think I’m an above average player, but I’m by no means the best. I watch the videos, I read the strategies, I experiment with gear and builds to suit my own playstyle. then test it in sPVP where everything is equal. But there are many amazing players of ALL classes out there. It doesn’t happen very often, but I’ve been completely outplayed by players of all classes.

Other classes have their own issues, I don’t doubt for a moment! However, that doesn’t invalidate my opinion on this, nor does it preclude rebalancing for other classes either.

In the end all I was really doing was expressing my confidence in my ability to play the Thief class. I LIKE playing thief, and I am good at it. I just don’t feel like it’s up to par in WvW during sieges. This is a very narrow and specific aspect of the game, and not me claiming that Thief is massively UP or needs huge boosts or buffs.

The most I’ve ever hit someone with a clusterbomb for is 9k. I assumed they were lower level with worse armor and downed.

I routinely do 5-6k on normal targets, 4k on harder ones. I’m not even all crit damage specced, I’m at 87% bonus…

These things happen because of gear and your traits. (I do not have the bow bonus damage trait)

I usually end up with a pile of bodies on offense or defense. (6 is my record there)

You should be taking out all of the siege at attacks, and coordinating cluster bombs in the defense.

I don’t yank people off keeps… not enough room on the bar for that…

And don’t judge a class until you have good gear… if I find out you’re level 60… grr… lol… wait… you did mention EXP in your post… uhh…

Eliteseraph.4970:

rekina.6078:

EVERY OTHER CLASSES FEEL LIMITS!! Why you can’t stand one single limit when you have multiple dash, 6 or more dodges, guaranteed escaping with stealth, dominating damage with HS, such survivability and versatile utilities? WHAT other classes have those spec in a single profession?

Because we don’t get all of that at once. Unless I’m missing the secret cow level where you unlock the 30/30/30/30/30 spec and loot the carrionknightrampagingvalkyrie armor set that gives you unlimited endurance and permastealth.

well do you know you can rebuild everytime out of combat right?
as a Thief usually I don’t run only 1 build in WvW, the thief can accomplish some roles in WvW but not all of them at the same time, so if I feel I need some more aoe long range damage I respec my thief, if I need to be a god 1v1 I respect quickly and so on..
I don’t think every other class can cover every role at any time

You do nothing during a siege? Then you are still messing up. Here’s what a thief prolly should be doing…

If you are defending, pop out and do a big aoe damage thing (you’ll probably down 2 or 3 guys before you have to go back in)… dagger storm comes to mind. Otherwise, stay on a wall away from where the fight is and pick off their reinforcements (they will come). Thief has obscene amounts of damage and escapability… so your risk is ridiculously low. Jump in, take out a guy. Then wait for his friends to come rez him and kill them too.

If you are on offense, wait in a place near the portal and pick off the guys that get yanked off the wall. Your high DPS and ability to get out of most situations will be an asset. If you get in trouble, run into your zerg, u will be fine.

Seriously, you have absolutely NOTHING to complain about.

Mesmers have stealth abilities and very strong in small scale fights. Yet, they do not have escape capability like thief has. That’s the downside of playing mesmer. They engage on their own risk, where they ‘know’ they cannot quit the fight and save their lives easily. They can juke you few times, but most of the time they cannot make it.

Elementalists have nice escaping ability, which is Ride The Lightning. However they neither have any stealth access, nor 6 times of dodges in a row. They also have lowest HP pool and lightest armor. Furthermore, they can’t swap weapons fast, so those who use staff and focus on their off-hand, they simply don’t have escape method.

Warriors potentially have nice damage output if their opponents have no stunbreaks, while thieves can spam the heartseeker without any efforts to hold your opponents on the spot. They have good health pool, but they still don’t have enough dodges and escape method. Don’t you think ‘Warriors’ should be the one who have more ‘endurance’ than thieves? In what fantasy universe thieves are more energetic than warriors?

Every other professions have limits. Thief should not be the one exception on this issue. YOU should have some limits as well. Yet, you are the least profession that has many glitching and underpowered issues than any others. You have way more things to be nerfed in near the future. Now, look at what you are asking again.

Think it through.

Some of you are still thinking I’m talking about builds. I am pointing out capabilities that some professions simply DON’T HAVE at anywhere. I wouldn’t say anything about thief if mesmers can shoot some shadow steps with shortbow somehow and save their kitten I wouldn’t complain anything about thief if elementalists can have stealth and heartseeker-like spell regarding their builds.

It’s not about building. It’s about ‘possibility’. Thieves have options to choose. Others, don’t.

Kolly.9872:

Eliteseraph.4970:

rekina.6078:

EVERY OTHER CLASSES FEEL LIMITS!! Why you can’t stand one single limit when you have multiple dash, 6 or more dodges, guaranteed escaping with stealth, dominating damage with HS, such survivability and versatile utilities? WHAT other classes have those spec in a single profession?

Because we don’t get all of that at once. Unless I’m missing the secret cow level where you unlock the 30/30/30/30/30 spec and loot the carrionknightrampagingvalkyrie armor set that gives you unlimited endurance and permastealth.

well do you know you can rebuild everytime out of combat right?
as a Thief usually I don’t run only 1 build in WvW, the thief can accomplish some roles in WvW but not all of them at the same time, so if I feel I need some more aoe long range damage I respec my thief, if I need to be a god 1v1 I respect quickly and so on..
I don’t think every other class can cover every role at any time

AFAIK Every class has some ability to perform any role at any given time, that’s sort of what A-net has been shooting for this entire time.

I’m not going to get into a class vs class breakdown of every ability. Elementalists don’t swap weapons because they swap elements; resulting in 4 sets of weapons instead of only 2 that everyone else gets. Mesmers and Elementalists don’t rely on stealth to stay alive, so of course trying to play one like that will result in you ending up dead.

As for Warriors, I suggest strongly that you go read Yojack’s build in the warrior forums, then come back and talk to me about how many dodges and escapes they have.

Heartseeker spam is so predictable and easy to overcome it’s not even funny. Any thief that relies on it will be easily overcome.

lol… wait… you did mention EXP in your post… uhh…

You may not know this, but you continue to accrue exp at level 80, gaining skill points which can be turned in for legendary components and recipes.

I love the responses.

Basically, they amount to this: Thief is one of the most powerful classes in the game.

If that isn’t for you then try something a little more challenging.

As to the comment that -any- class can take on 2 people at once – good luck with that with some of the classes.

OP, if you aren’t enjoying your thief, switch classes. There are plenty more to try.

OP, if you aren’t enjoying your thief, switch classes. There are plenty more to try.

I’m in the process of finishing up my warrior to 80 to give it a try in WvW. For the record, I didn’t say I didn’t enjoy my thief. Up a couple of posts earlier in fact, I said " I LIKE playing thief, and I am good at it."

I’m just a little dissatisfied with thief in WvW. Spam CB, profit. Whee…. :/

WvW as a Thief makes my kitten hard.

1st of all, dagger storm is ungodly OP in WvW until anet fixes the culling issue – jump off the wall for auto smoke bomb passive (or HiS / whatever) and pop dagger storm; 90% of the time you won’t even load before doing 10k damage PBAoE. There are very few skills in the game that hit more than 5 targets, and Dagger Storm just kinda owns everything in range. A coordinated bum rush that includes a few storming thieves is absolutely devastating.

Thief wall poke is mediocre, but this is an extremely overrated aspect of what you’re doing overall in WvW. Cluster bomb with squishy gear hits hard (5k+) at 1200-1500 range. Poison AoE from shortbow is also decent for area denial.

Now, what thieves truly shine at:
1- Scouting. Thieves are slippery and fast, perfect for watching flanks/checking marked towers/etc. This is not very important, UNLESS you’re in a guild or some other coordinated WvW group.
2- being uncatchable. People say ele/warr can catch up to thief? They can’t, unless you get caught really badly due to poor play. If any class is going to lead 5 enemy invaders on a merry chase across the map and into 50 friends, its a thief.
3 – Killing people. Pretty obvious. 1v3+ is possible with cooldowns (if low levels are mixed in).
4 – Soloing stuff. Thieves can easily take out supply camps, cannons, and dolyaks ANYWHERE on the map safely and easily if nobody responds. If people do? Just run, they can’t chase you down before combat resets and you waypoint to spawn (or just keep running.)
5 – scorpion wire/other chain CC like devourer venom and stealth shortbow auto combined with extreme map traversal speed makes thieves ungodly good at catching people and pinning them down until backup arrives. Warriors work for this too I think, though.
6 – fast movement speed for supply running to build siege/repair gates.

Eliteseraph, when it comes to sieges and keep wall battles, I don’t have a problem with the distance. I personally dual dagger main and bow secondary. I find better options with that combination in comparison to dual pistols secondary when it comes to wall battles.

As a side note, just stick with your group and don’t always go kamikaze just because you feel short ranged. Shadow step, heal, dagger storm, dodge and perhaps some other abilities are your best evasive friends in those short ranges.

Remember, you’re not the only one on the field and large groups help divert attention. When I play walls and sieges, I look for the weak and vulnerable and swiftly expose them as a thief. That in itself is an invaluable asset to teamwork.

I’m having a lot of fun with my thief. I love to play support role in WvW. When I apply a venom I apply it to all my teammates around me, which gives som nice boost in assaults. I also give boons on stealing which helps a lot

Else I’m in charge for firing the siege weapons and letting the rangers do their job while I breake the gate. Cluster bombs are also great and give me lots of kills

I WvW as a thief a lot. Everyone plays differently but the following is what I tend to do, and I love it. I am also a fan of using condition damage as a thief but that’s a whole other discussion.

1) Shortbow – The short bow is phenominal in WvW. When attacking a tower/keep you can use its AoE to keep defenders off of walls. When defending a tower/keep you can use clusterbomb to hit enemies and attack rams. Hint: You don’t have to stand on the lip of a wall to shoot clusterbomb on the ground. Its arc will go over that little lip and help prevent you from being pulled down. Finally, the blast finisher on clusterbomb is great. You can give lots of boons to your allies.

2) Daggerstorm – I love thee so much. Group vs Group in open field? Daggerstorm into them and retreat with stealth and your short bow. Defending a tower/keep? Daggerstorm out the front gate and get back in before it runs out. Your allies need to rereat? Daggerstorm at the end of your group and use your short bow plus stealth to get away. You just protected your allies and if done right also survived.

3) Scorpion Wire – Obviously, great for pulling off of walls and grabbing runners. You can also use it to prevent the enemy from running into a tower/keep you are attacking. Watch a corner and grab players making a charge for the door. Cripple and immobalize from the short bow helps out as well, but any cripple/immobalize you use will help. If someone using a siege isn’t hidden from view than you can always yank them off the weapon.

4) Shadow Refuge – Great for resurrecting downed allies. Combo’ing this with projectiles is great too. Leeching venoms!

5) Shadowstep – Not an ability I use much but mostly due to my style of play. It has 1200 range and can be used to jump into an enemy group, attack a target, and jump back.

6) Combos – The Thief has a great arsenal of combos starters and finishers. You can create your own combos, play off your allies’ combo starters, or finish combos for your allies.

7) Steal – If traited for it you can give yourself and allies some very nice boons. Also, there are some very nice stolen abilities for WvW: gain all boons from mesmers, another stealth from thiefs, AoE fear from necromancers, regenernation combo field from rangers, etc.