Guild Wars 2

I love how ppl are saying QQ not enough waypoints… 90% of the time unless a server really held bay or hills, all you would have would be spawn WP’s and garri if it was your servers map..

Yes the maps are big but really not as big as you think.. Yes they are not as open as the old maps, but you ran in to the same issue in the old maps..

You group / zerg is way down at south camp or sw tower and you are way up at spawn.. No real different from now.. Just now you have more terrain in the way..

The new maps have the shrines which can be easily solo’d to get you a 40% speed buff for 4 mins.. The old maps never had that.

I agree defending the keep for the most part is dead, since you can just retake it and upgrade everything for free, but I still have experienced zergs coming in and defending. Nothing like the old maps where they would just sit in the keep and ac you to death.. see more roaming then anything.. Where a group of invaders breaks in and then gets hit from behind by the defense squad/zerg..

HoT and new maps haven’t even been out for a week. People will get tired of PvE and comes back or quit playing either way let them.. HoT stuff is fun but WvW is just as fun. Rather then mindlessly zerg / karma train, get a roaming group and enjoy that. Yes you wont get in fights ever 30 secs and yes you could take 2-3 towers before anyone shows up.

The more people play and get comfy on the new BL’s the more they wont seem as big. You will soon find routes from one place to another that you didn’t know about at first. Youll find little cliffs you can drop off to get to areas faster.. You will find short cuts..

Think would be fun to see, is a 4 server match up. add another keep and such to the new BL’s and than maybe more fights..

Genocide.1524:

Think would be fun to see, is a 4 server match up. add another keep and such to the new BL’s and than maybe more fights..

Even tho there is room for it, I am pretty sure the servers can’t handle any more bodies. WvW lags bad enough as it is. We don’t even know where the map cap sits with the new Desert Borderland atm. I haven’t been on one yet that is capped to even attempt to judge numbers compared to the old Alpine caps, which were estimated between 60 and 90 per side depending where things were in the lag testing department. Would be interesting to hear from a dev what the map cap for Desert is compared to which time period of Alpine since they never deal in hard #’s with us.

I have a feeling the new layout of Desert likely makes it feel more empty than it really is. I am still overwhelmed with everything else there is to do but I hope to have more time this weekend to decide how I really feel about the new map. Right now more than one copy of it seems pretty rough on the lower tiers and I agree with the main points in the OP. Desert Borderland map is beautiful and interesting but for sure could use some polish to play a bit more like an actual WvW map.

Wryscher.1432:

People are right, once pve dies down in a week or 2 the population will rise in wvw. History has shown us this. Of course history has also shown us a couple weeks after that with the new stuff worn out, people will move on to something else.

So befor to long populations should be back to what they were before HoT. And that still isn’t enough people to fill those maps.

Are you sure that those wvw player are not alredy gone to play other games?

Those are beautiful maps, just not WvW maps…
It seems the Devs are really out of sync with this mode.

Just adding my 2c after commanding the new maps the first time on Monday.

1. There are certainly more choke points. There are also plenty of places for open field fights if people choose to use them… I’ve seen more people run in the opposite direction though lately than I’d care to. I’ve also been honestly disappointed the last week in enemy commander’s use of those choke points: ie. acting like being on a new map means that basic strategy doesn’t exist. A choke is a choke. Only a stupid commander runs a smaller force up a staircase in full view with a larger enemy force at the top… People are completely ignoring other, better options to take the dumb route. Hopefully that will change in time as people know the map better. But Jesus people: Use some situational awareness.

2. I see your point, but it’s overall ameliorated by the new mechanics once you start to work with them. Shrine buffs/portals and sentries make it fairly simple to know enemy movements in advance of them going to the next objective and catch up to them. Also, auto upgrades/fortifications and tougher lords mean that you have plenty of time to catch up.

On reset, for example, when we were getting effectively double teamed on home garri, we got a scout call that one group had made it to inner and the gate was at 50… In the past, that call would’ve been far too late. We were on the other side of the map, there would’ve been no chance to get back in time. We ported spawn and by the time we got there, the gate was down, but the lord was still at 80% hp. The natural defenses of the keep meant we could prep our attack and take them by surprise pretty effectively.

3. Essentially auto-upgrades and huge keeps changes the nature of scouting. Your job isn’t just to sit there watching a gate and refreshing siege… You really need to be actively running around, flipping shrines and watching for red dots. We’d been struggling to maintain “sit in the keep” scouts in our guild anyways, instead relying on the knowledge of the guild roamers to help defend.

Personally, I think defensive siege outside of the actual lord’s room in keeps will pretty much be gone in favor of disablers/situational defensive siege. Home towers, with their new waypoints, I see being sieged to the teeth. We’ll see though. Honestly, we’re still learning siege spots.

4. There is a whole ton of potential that I just described above that, well, people are simply not using right now. In prime time NA on BG at least, the enemy commanders just haven’t been playing that I’ve seen – We’ve fought HGBQ and a pretty ragtag force of OnS/TW, but, honestly, they weren’t at full fighting numbers or concentration. Selfishly, I’m hoping that’s just cause people are grinding out their PvE (my guild certainly is). If it were just the new maps, then EBG would theoretically be a hub for fights, but that is NOT the case right now.

I’ll just wait for people to get their PvE ground out I guess, then get back to normal kittening about “this or that commander being a jerk” or “tc hides in their acs, we never do that!” or a home bl scout complaining that the commander didn’t respond to their supply camp in time. And if not, I guess we’ll see you in arenas.

@ Genocide
Well, “my QQ” about WP, if you want to call it that way, is very reasonable considering i did care (also) about defending. It is your home BL = if you spend time to care about it = you get rewarded with WP that makes mobility across the map and defenses easier. Makes sense.

You say the new map is not as big as i think. Like i said in the previous post it actually becomes even bigger than it is, due to WP mechanics.

On the other hand, i like that you can’t get WP in enemy EB keeps. But i don’t like that you get WP in your own EB keep for free (just like i don’t like the whole “automatic process”).
I never really liked the fact that you could get a WP in enemy keeps (like you’re green and you defend so much red keep that you get a WP there). Some might say “well, it is the same thing: you put your efforts in defending, so you’d be rewarded with a WP”. BS. Honestly, if a server can manage to focus on getting a WP in EB enemy keeps or enemy BL maps, that means they are probably steamrolling alredy and a WP in these keeps would just make things further unbalanced, frustrating etc.

PS: a 4 server MU like you suggested would be a pain for FPS (i heard MANY people are having massive fps issues just with the map, even where there is basically nobody in it).

Dawdler.8521:

Masori.3528:

Infusion.7149:

I just wanted to add that a group of two to three people takes several minutes to blow up a barricade.

This is pretty easy to solo within 30 seconds.

So whats the trick? Tried to duo a barricade yesterday and after about 15s, the hp bar wasnt even down to 99% – it didnt move at all. Needless to say, we gave up.

Haven’t been able to log in this morning due maintenance,

But with the normal hits between 35-65 I’ve had a couple of hits for 900-945 a couple of times.

Noticed this only happened while I was using the revenant Hammer 3 and Hammer 5 tho.

I’ll test it again when I get home tonight.

Masori.3528:

Dawdler.8521:

Masori.3528:

Infusion.7149:

I just wanted to add that a group of two to three people takes several minutes to blow up a barricade.

This is pretty easy to solo within 30 seconds.

So whats the trick? Tried to duo a barricade yesterday and after about 15s, the hp bar wasnt even down to 99% – it didnt move at all. Needless to say, we gave up.

Haven’t been able to log in this morning due maintenance,

But with the normal hits between 35-65 I’ve had a couple of hits for 900-945 a couple of times.

Noticed this only happened while I was using the revenant Hammer 3 and Hammer 5 tho.

I’ll test it again when I get home tonight.

I was hitting around that 40, yes… But I think I see it now. I bet its the elite spec weapons and revenant that can bring down the barricades – my duo was a ranger and mesmer (both own hot, but neither specced elite).

With all thats happened. Anet being this cheeky against roamers seriously wouldnt surprise me.

Dawdler.8521:

Masori.3528:

Infusion.7149:

I just wanted to add that a group of two to three people takes several minutes to blow up a barricade.

This is pretty easy to solo within 30 seconds.

So whats the trick? Tried to duo a barricade yesterday and after about 15s, the hp bar wasnt even down to 99% – it didnt move at all. Needless to say, we gave up.

That’s odd…I took one down in about 60s solo on a character in Knight/Cavalier gear. I’m inclined to think you’re exaggerating. It was a necro, but not Elite spec.

Then again, I tried to solo one on a non-power character and it was going to take all day so I left.

Sviel.7493:

Dawdler.8521:

Masori.3528:

Infusion.7149:

I just wanted to add that a group of two to three people takes several minutes to blow up a barricade.

This is pretty easy to solo within 30 seconds.

So whats the trick? Tried to duo a barricade yesterday and after about 15s, the hp bar wasnt even down to 99% – it didnt move at all. Needless to say, we gave up.

That’s odd…I took one down in about 60s solo on a character in Knight/Cavalier gear. I’m inclined to think you’re exaggerating. It was a necro, but not Elite spec.

Then again, I tried to solo one on a non-power character and it was going to take all day so I left.

I tried to take it down with my full zerk warr a sec ago. Aa with gs 72, full hblades 500~… I did 4% of dmg in about 15-20s.

Agree 100% Nedus

Allso 100% agree Nedus.

Indeed useless to mention “ppl doing pve atm” its over with WvW borderlands fun.
75% or more of the core WvW players will not go for borders no more.

EB will be the place to be, even far more then before the extantion:(
A-net totally faked up here.

I agree with virtually all of the negative posts about the new WvW system. I can’t stand the new BL maps and the time it takes to traverse them, and I think it is ridiculous that the southern towers are now the only places where additional waypoints exist apart from the garrison and EB keep.

AND, the people who actually own the borderlands can’t even use those southern waypoints, so no matter what, the “home” team will have to spend a long time running down to the southern portion. Which means that it doesn’t really matter anymore if they get flipped. There is no more, “I see swords at x, everyone rally to defend!” Now, the few remaining players just run around and cap whatever objectives they feel like. Waypoints should not be immediate, and they should be useable by whichever server can HOLD THE KEEP FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.

Finally, I’d like to say that the ones who are really suffering on these new BL maps are the lower-tier servers who were already having trouble retaining guilds and players, and who often are struggling to find competitive fights with other servers. I have noticed significantly fewer players on all the maps, both on my server and enemy servers, since the expansion came out. Numbers have always mattered in WvW, but I feel like skill is much less of a factor now than it ever was. It is now PvD 24/7.

My last major gripe is the holographic harvesting nodes. Part of the fun of roaming in WvW is coming across a useful node and grabbing it on my way to an objective. If someone ganks me while I’m harvesting, that’s my fault for being careless. What is the point of even having harvesting nodes anymore, if they are all randomized and safe behind the walls of a keep or tower?! Furthermore, these holographic nodes are destroying the in-game economy. Chili peppers, lemongrass, the price has fallen on these because they are now commonplace. Soon all cooking materials will just cost 3-5 silver, period. That is not interesting or fun for players, that is boring.

Case in point that Anet has killed WvW: Sell orders for guild catas are less than 50s. Why? Because so few people play WvW lately. Players are disgusted by the new desert borderlands and therefore demand for these has fallen drastically. IF I decide to play WvW from now on (and that’s a pretty big if), I think I’m just going to stay on the EB map. I’m sorry that you spent so much time and effort on the new maps, but at some point, Anet, you just need to cut your losses and give the players what they want.

PLEASE BRING BACK THE BORDERLANDS MAPS WE ALL KNOW AND LOVE AND GET RID OF THESE DESERT ABOMINATIONS!!!!!!!!

Everyone please stop complaining about WvW. Anet did a good job. Plain and simple. It is the players that are making sound so crappy. The map is great. Yes there aren’t many people but they will be returning in the coming weeks. And yes there are some things that they need to fix but the mechanics and flow of the map are not terrible.

Babytater.6803:

Everyone please stop complaining about WvW. Anet did a good job. Plain and simple. It is the players that are making sound so crappy. The map is great. Yes there aren’t many people but they will be returning in the coming weeks. And yes there are some things that they need to fix but the mechanics and flow of the map are not terrible.

Litterally in each line of your comment there is a at least 1 proof that you didn’t bother even read any of the posts in here, and that you’re out of place. There is not a single argumentation or counter-argumentation. Not a single “well, i think that what you said is not correct because insert reasons here”.

Look, you’re free to think what you want about the WvW changes, but don’t come here and say “stop making complaints with valid argumentations because my argumentation is blank”.

I like the new shiny central event… Yeah… That terrible lag you have when he start if you have more that 10 people on the map… Beautifull… You don’t even need to be fighting in blob vs blob to appreciate that lag. Wonderfull.
Thx to give us that lag for a completly useless pve event who everyone hate in wvw….

And the best thing is… No answer from anet ! We have huge lag and anet don’t care….
The only answer we get is about the proof of heroic that should be linked to the soul and not the account.

This map is made for people playing 2H max at prime time with guilds, running in circle to pvd and log out…

love the post i agree with everything but you forgot anet didnt put gliding into it which it should for sure lol
also anet tried to kill scouting by those annoucements that pop up in your screen telling you when a camp/tower/keep has been taken alerting enemies to your presence if orange swords didnt already

Babytater.6803:

Everyone please stop complaining about WvW. Anet did a good job. Plain and simple. It is the players that are making sound so crappy. The map is great. Yes there aren’t many people but they will be returning in the coming weeks. And yes there are some things that they need to fix but the mechanics and flow of the map are not terrible.

The players are the customers. When customers complain it is because they are unhappy with the product. Good products don’t make the majority of the customers who purchase it unhappy. If the majority of the customers are unhappy, it means the product is bad.

You are wrong on all counts.

The mechanics and flow of the new maps ARE the problem.

The one positive about the new map is that it is artistically beautiful. Of course I would rather have 16 bit artwork and a solid game design that is fun than pretty artwork and horrible game design.

That is just me though.

My biggest fear was an EoTM style map. And it pretty much became that.

Why defend anything if you invest nothing into it?

They should remove auto-upgrading and make actually interacting with an upgrade npc necessary.

Good keyword Justine, because I was just about to reveal the major flaw behind the Deserted Borderlands: It is dead because it plays exactly like EotM, but without the single biggest EotM characteristic: megaservers. It placates nobody. It’s not an easy, quick, always-on karma bonanza, and it is also not designed along the lines that are conductive to WvW gameplay (read antithetical).
That is why it’s a failure.

To big and they are overly complicated, there is no need for all the junk that they crammed into the maps. There is such a thing as to much, Anet really needs a dedicated WvW team, it’s overly clear that the ones who designed these maps usually work in the PvE department, the completely missed the mark.

Yes they look nice but that doesn’t really matter if they don’t function well. It’s a shame because there was a lot of work put into them, they would make a great map in PvE but in WvW … not so much.

I see a few claims that the maps are “too big”. What metric are you using to determine that?

I agree with Nedus 100%.

Adding my thought here.

1. The new BL map is too large for T 7 and T 8. It may be more enjoyable in T 1-2 once people are done with their PVE. However, T7-8 is super dead now. Look at ET right now. I wonder if ET is going to hit 10k points this week.
The size of the new BL map could’ve been reduced to 60-70% of what it is now.
2. Auto upgrades are too fast, and I still believe it needs to be done by the players. You spend rams, catapults, and trebs to take it down, but no cost to upgrade it.
3. No WP at fire or air keep despite the large size of the map. Like other people said here, who the hell is going to defend it?

Imagine you just had a fight in fire keep, but then you gotta go to air keep to defend. Yeah no WP.

It is designed to get rid of blobing? I rather fight those blobs than looking for fight.

coglin.1867:

I see a few claims that the maps are “too big”. What metric are you using to determine that?

I could probably answer simply with: commonsense. It would sound a kittenildish, but definitely short and correct. But hey.

Any player that spent a lot of time in EB/alpine BL naturally feels/notice that the new map is resonably too big for what WvW is intended to.

You don’t need a “meter” to say that, just like you don’t need to walk from USA est coast to west coast with a meter on your hand before you’re allowed to say “it is a big nation”.

Last but not least, you’re forgetting things i/we mentioned in other posts:

1) It is not just the size of the map that makes it big, but also other things (additional vertical spaces, no WP = slower movements around etc)
2) Map size is the least of WvW current problems. The changes to the mechanics are the real deal.

ANET HEAR USS (but i must say quite impressive graphs in new bl )

Agree wit OP.
the map itself is fine and i like many aspects, but for WvW it seems bad.
Remove laser, remove free upgrade, give diffrent WvW maps for each relam.

In a short sentence:
So we have a nice map that feels to large…

I’ll be against the stream but i DO REALLY LIKE the new map :-|

Gaaroth.2567:

I’ll be against the stream but i DO REALLY LIKE the new map :-|

You heard him boys. Get him!!

xXBAKESXx.6731:

WvW got harder, deal with it

Not really, it just got poisoned with more PvE stuff, and that needs to go.