Guild Wars 2

Ehmry Bay, at least, tends to get stuck in this loop:

T5, we crush and we go up to T4.
T4 we consistently take third and eventually go back to T5, where we crush again.

The problem is the map design.

The best 3-way RvR maps should basically force the 3rd and 2nd place teams to gang up on the first place team simply because the first place team is in the way — they control so much stuff that the other two teams can’t easily get at each other. In Planetside, for example, it can be literally impossible for the 2nd and 3rd place teams to attack each other because they no longer have any points of contact. 1st place is in their way.

WvW maps were clearly designed so that 2nd and 3rd place can always attack each other, short of 1st place owning literally the entire WvW map. And typically, they prefer to attack each other because it’s easier to get points from the team that doesn’t have the presence to be in 1st place.

Every week, probably in most every tier, is really a “battle for 2nd place” with the 1st place team largely just acting as a spoiler.

In short,
I don’t see WvW ever really presenting a consistently fun experience across all tiers with the current map design. Battles for 2nd aren’t as fun as battles for 1st, but the maps don’t properly encourage a battle for 1st.

I remember something mentioned in press beta about each borderland eventually being unique. If that’s still being worked on, maybe the march patch will be new maps.

ParaldaWind.4523:

I remember something mentioned in press beta about each borderland eventually being unique. If that’s still being worked on, maybe the march patch will be new maps.

This is what I would love more than any other change right now. If every BL was as unique as EB I would be happy. Of course I want other fixes like culling, but if I had to pick one thing it would be new unique maps.

Actually, it is quite the opposite right now. The green color is the easiest side to defend at the moment.

Uh lol….

It is WvWvW. Servers are free to gang up on another as is. That is not a design flaw. Rather just not servers coordinating with one another for reasons.

I do agree with maps needing to be freshened up and unique. But that has nothing to do with the problems with tiers. Tiers are screwed up because of transfers/paid transfers..

There are about five servers that could legitimately compete in T1. FA and TC are probably approximately equally competitive and probably would be T2 if other servers did not get bloated by tryhards.

And after that the best match up would be Dragonbrand, Maguuma and Yaks Bend.

After DB/Mag/YB there seems to be a steep decline in competition. It’s sad. But I don’t see how map designs other than #1 getting Green in EB has anything to do with it. Your complaint is heavily based on Eternal. And it is possible to win a match up without focusing all that heavy on Eternal.

style.6173:

Actually, it is quite the opposite right now. The green color is the easiest side to defend at the moment.

I actually agree with this too, they should rotate everyone in the EB counterclockwise so that green is SE, blue North, and red SW. The area in the SE is the kittentiest part so I think 1st place should get it.

I think part of the issue comes in EB with how difficult Overlook is to siege if you’re red and have lost it and nearby areas. It’s a difficult siege because it’s uphill from nearby towers, and Veloka is easy to defend if you own overlook. This makes a breakout into EB from red’s side particularly difficult and demotivating when it fails, which helps keep third place third.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

But I don’t see how map designs other than #1 getting Green in EB has anything to do with it. Your complaint is heavily based on Eternal. And it is possible to win a match up without focusing all that heavy on Eternal.

It’s very simple.

We are in 2nd place. We can attack the first place team, which has a huge presence and defends every keep tenaciously or we can attack the third place team, which has less presence and we may take the keep before they show up (this is why they are third place, in fact).

• What stops 2nd place from attacking 3rd place? Nothing.
• Why should 2nd place attack 3rd place? It’s easier and they’ll get more points.
• Why are so many matches so bad? Because 2nd and 3rd place do not gang up on 1st place.

It’s not just Eternal; it’s all maps. We can go to the 3rd place team’s borderland and attack them directly even through they’re losing. We can attack their tower and supply camp in our borderland without having to go through the 1st place team. For that matter, we can go to the map of the 1st place team and attack the 3rd place team’s tower (if they have it).

The first place team is almost never in our way. We can always attack the 3rd place team.

What kept Planetside battles so interesting was that 2nd & 3rd usually ganged up on whoever was 1st, keeping one team from ever totally running away with the game. Once the 1st place team contolled half of the territory in the game there was often no choice but to fight them because 2nd and 3rd could no longer reach each other. Planetside had superior map design.

I always avoid the Borderlands for the same very reason, maps are utterly bad designed and unbalanced, that’s why we have three of them, because they couldn’t come with a good balance for the three maps. (Or at least that’s my theory and I’m sticking with it).

Eternal Battlegrounds on the other hand is a beautifully crafted map, but only because it’s too asymmetric(things might be spaced out here and there, but this is a very asymmetric map), and you can’ t go wrong with that.