Guild Wars 2

So the mechanics of the torment condition is that it deals more damage to moving opponents.

But do people really stop moving because they have torment on them? In my observations, no.

People cleanse, people just take the damage, but I’ve practically never seen someone stop moving just because they have torment on them — especially since it’s pretty much a death sentence to stop moving in combat.

Theoretically, having choosing to more or not move may make an interesting mechanic, but since everyone responds the same way to it, torment may as well just be an ordinary damage dealing condition.

Perhaps other people have a different experience with torment?

I definitely agree, but this game already has too much cc and would hate torment getting buffed.

I usually stop moving when the stack of it gets too high, otherwise just like you said i just cleanse or take the dmg

You cannot stack torment in a fast way. Six stacks are already very high. As long as you can’t reach 15-20 stacks in a reliable way torment will remain quite harmless.

Other than the lack of torment stack ability its not really much different than confusion. And with torment on me I do tend to move less

There are some conditioning builds that make Torment extremely painful to move with but it is usually best to eat the damage as others have said.

Where Torment is problematic is as a cover to bleeds. Hit a player with 6+ conditions and most classes are unable to remove that many conditions quickly without some sort of group synergy.

Belenwyn.8674:

You cannot stack torment in a fast way. Six stacks are already very high. As long as you can’t reach 15-20 stacks in a reliable way torment will remain quite harmless.

lol harmless… good joke
take a guess what build it was

Cynz.9437:

Belenwyn.8674:

You cannot stack torment in a fast way. Six stacks are already very high. As long as you can’t reach 15-20 stacks in a reliable way torment will remain quite harmless.

lol harmless… good joke
take a guess what build it was

When this happened, did you move less when you saw you had torment on you?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Cynz.9437:

Belenwyn.8674:

You cannot stack torment in a fast way. Six stacks are already very high. As long as you can’t reach 15-20 stacks in a reliable way torment will remain quite harmless.

lol harmless… good joke
take a guess what build it was

When this happened, did you move less when you saw you had torment on you?

gl standing still while warrior is spamming his attacks on you lol

can’t cleanse that torment too because skillful impale

Cynz.9437:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Cynz.9437:

Belenwyn.8674:

You cannot stack torment in a fast way. Six stacks are already very high. As long as you can’t reach 15-20 stacks in a reliable way torment will remain quite harmless.

lol harmless… good joke
take a guess what build it was

When this happened, did you move less when you saw you had torment on you?

gl standing still while warrior is spamming his attacks on you lol

can’t cleanse that torment too because skillful impale

That’s why I think the mechanics have failed — if practically everyone reacts the same way to the choice of “move or not move,” then that mechanic may as well not exist.

I think condis in generall need to be overhauled.

Well lets look at the facts:

1. Combat in this game is centered around mobility.
2. This effect punishes mobility.
3. There are only highly unreliable RNG ways of removing this effect.

You tell me, does it seem like a failed mechanic?

People don’t stand still to counter Torment because immobilizing yourself on top of it is rarely a wise choice.

Torment in itself may not be OP but the way it helps cover existing conditions makes the addition of Torment the point where conditions slowly spiraled out of control.

Honestly, when I get “tormented” I try to cleanse that condition ASAP, especially if I have 3+ stacks of it. However, I must admit that in SOME fights (especially on my Mesmer) I can afford to stand still for a few seconds to mitigate some of its damage.

Lol, we talking about Impale? #yolo

It should have been a necro only spell. Since they have the worse mobility, they should have gotten a decent spell that causes immobility.

The way it should work, you have to stop moving for the duration of it will add another second and another stack. Leaping and teleports should add like 5 stacks and 5 seconds. Probably have to make it a single target only spell.

Necros need something special to make up for no mobility. Needs to only work on players also. Could be exploited on mobs.

Pretty much agree, no one seems to not move with torment, death sentence if you do.

What if torment did more damage to you the further away from the application spot you moved? That would give the chance to avoid other attacks but still have a more sensible means of punishment. Have it appear as a chain to the spot from the character, necros give a green chain, thieves a black chain, mesmers a pink chain, etc.

just a thought.

What I don’t like is that it doesnt proc for moving damage when, say, a warrior speeds away with a mobility skill (let it do 4x damage on mobility skills )

Isnt torment particularly nasty for thieves?

I find torment just fine the way it is. It puts you between a rock and a hard place, get it while you cleanse is on CD and you have a hard choice to make. Try and run and risk dying to it or stick it out where you are and risk dying and if you get impaled you have a long wait ahead of you. Combine that with a bunch of conditions and AoE at it is pretty powerful.

torment is fine as it is…..

cleanse it….

Ross Biddle.2367:

What I don’t like is that it doesnt proc for moving damage when, say, a warrior speeds away with a mobility skill (let it do 4x damage on mobility skills )

Isnt torment particularly nasty for thieves?

I’m guessing that’s because mobility skills usually have very short duration and so you’re not moving at the instant the torment damage calculation is made.

Sororita.3465:

Pretty much agree, no one seems to not move with torment, death sentence if you do.

What if torment did more damage to you the further away from the application spot you moved? That would give the chance to avoid other attacks but still have a more sensible means of punishment. Have it appear as a chain to the spot from the character, necros give a green chain, thieves a black chain, mesmers a pink chain, etc.

just a thought.

What if two people put torment on you and they run in opposite directions? You can only stay close to one of them. You’re kind of being drawn and quartered, in a way.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Ross Biddle.2367:

What I don’t like is that it doesnt proc for moving damage when, say, a warrior speeds away with a mobility skill (let it do 4x damage on mobility skills )

Isnt torment particularly nasty for thieves?

I’m guessing that’s because mobility skills usually have very short duration and so you’re not moving at the instant the torment damage calculation is made.

I’ve seen it tick mid movement skill.

azizul.8469:

torment is fine as it is…..

cleanse it….

can’t cleanse impale

Torment is fine and does a healthy amount of damage. The only thing that’s needed is for certain cleansing skills to be updated to include a torment cleanse. Many of the cleanse skills are outdated/under-powered because they were “balanced” around having less conditions in the game.

Lord Kuru.3685:

What if two people put torment on you and they run in opposite directions? You can only stay close to one of them. You’re kind of being drawn and quartered, in a way.

Exactly =) though, the application spots would be close together if indeed you were trying to minimize the damage. The damage would increase at range intervals 0-500 lowest, 500-1000 medium, 1000+ highest or something along those lines. I think that would be a cool condition, punishes you for escaping a fight, would really be a pain for thieves and warriors =p a necro’s paradise.

the application spot is where you were at the time of application, no the one applying torment.

Sororita.3465:

Lord Kuru.3685:

What if two people put torment on you and they run in opposite directions? You can only stay close to one of them. You’re kind of being drawn and quartered, in a way.

Exactly =) though, the application spots would be close together if indeed you were trying to minimize the damage. The damage would increase at range intervals 0-500 lowest, 500-1000 medium, 1000+ highest or something along those lines. I think that would be a cool condition, punishes you for escaping a fight, would really be a pain for thieves and warriors =p a necro’s paradise.

the application spot is where you were at the time of application, no the one applying torment.

oh you’re right… reading comprehension fail on my part (I guess I was picturing DS #5). And this way is better for computing resources as the point of application doesn’t change locations.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Torment is fine and does a healthy amount of damage. The only thing that’s needed is for certain cleansing skills to be updated to include a torment cleanse. Many of the cleanse skills are outdated/under-powered because they were “balanced” around having less conditions in the game.

The condition is supposed to force you to make a choice: move and take more damage, or stand still and take less. But if one choice is clearly better than the other and everyone always chooses the same way, then the mechanic is perhaps not well designed.

I do agree with the cleansing issue and balance. I’ll be Anet didn’t consider it when deciding to add a new condition.

Isn’t there already a “condition” that adds 1 stack of bleed and increases the "condition’s duration while you are moving? It doesn’t matter how fast or how far you move so long as you are moving, you get additional stacks of bleed.

I think Lyssa’s corrupted priestess has it.

Ljiona.9142:

It should have been a necro only spell. Since they have the worse mobility, they should have gotten a decent spell that causes immobility.

Good point! It’s stupid to get tormented by warriors, thieves and mesmers alike, who also happen to be the most mobile classes in-combat…

Not sure about your thoughts about possible mechanics, but I guess we don’t have to think about any fine-tuning unless condition management gets a serious overhaul anyways.

I tend to try to get away from immediate harm when I see I have torment, then wait it out or attempt to cleanse it.
I wish it would tick for nothing when not moving, had good damages to moving targets, somewhat bigger when player has swiftness, and great damages on escapes (teleports or jumps)…

Maybe some people just don’t see it… When I see people stacked with confusion that keeps hitting… well… some people just don’t pay attention…

It is a failed mechanic because theres not enough appilication of it. Its rare to see more than 3 stacks on you, and with so few stacks its never worth standing still in the middle of a fight to save yourself the extra 300-400 damage.

Confusion works as a way to stop people doing things because certain classes and builds stack 10-15 stacks almost instantly, and at that point it is actually worth stopping what you’re doing. If you could stack 10-15 torment then it might work the same, because the extra damage from moving would be worth taking seriously.

Obvious its not as simple and just making it easier to apply torment because that makes condition builds even strong, so theyd have to be nerfed in another way to counteract it, but yeah.

It is rather weak, and i also do not like it at all that warrior can stack this higher than a necro would. I would call this a necro condition to begin with, but right now it’s not even worth standing still from. Unless you have the impale one on you.

I think the conditions in this game are great on paper, but like everything else ANET likely never envisioned people would be prone to go 100% full condi.

Same thing with zerker, hell same thing with WvW….I remember when the official stance from ANET was that WvW is only 1/3 of the game and we should play the other 2/3rd’s more.

So with that being said, at least to me it seems like many things in this game were designed with the idea of a (lets call it) “celestial” approach, that is to say everything in moderation….

Once players start building around a certain condition or meta, then we see just how short-sighted some of these ideas were.

Sororita.3465:

Pretty much agree, no one seems to not move with torment, death sentence if you do.

What if torment did more damage to you the further away from the application spot you moved? That would give the chance to avoid other attacks but still have a more sensible means of punishment. Have it appear as a chain to the spot from the character, necros give a green chain, thieves a black chain, mesmers a pink chain, etc.

just a thought.

Not against the idea, but I am against the side effects it would produce. This would require the server constantly update the distance when the condition is going to pulse. It would require more data between the server and clients to be used and would go up exponentially if you involve more targets. It would be a hit to server resources. If anything they need to stop adding things that take up more resources if they want to improve the WvW experience as a whole.

Interesting idea and I’m not against it. I am against the side effects.

maeggle.6021:

Ljiona.9142:

It should have been a necro only spell. Since they have the worse mobility, they should have gotten a decent spell that causes immobility.

Good point! It’s stupid to get tormented by warriors, thieves and mesmers alike, who also happen to be the most mobile classes in-combat…

Not sure about your thoughts about possible mechanics, but I guess we don’t have to think about any fine-tuning unless condition management gets a serious overhaul anyways.

necros dont deserve it. they already have the best AOE application of conditions, the highest amount of conditions and a second bloody health pool. In fact nobody deserved it because every build that utilizes it is quite cheesy.

Epic.3950:

maeggle.6021:

Ljiona.9142:

It should have been a necro only spell. Since they have the worse mobility, they should have gotten a decent spell that causes immobility.

Good point! It’s stupid to get tormented by warriors, thieves and mesmers alike, who also happen to be the most mobile classes in-combat…

Not sure about your thoughts about possible mechanics, but I guess we don’t have to think about any fine-tuning unless condition management gets a serious overhaul anyways.

necros dont deserve it. they already have the best AOE application of conditions, the highest amount of conditions and a second bloody health pool. In fact nobody deserved it because every build that utilizes it is quite cheesy.

It would severely hurt the SS/LB warrior builds. Might even kill them completely. Although impale is strong, just burns and bleeds probably not be enough to make it a viable build.

Ljiona.9142:

It should have been a necro only spell. Since they have the worse mobility, they should have gotten a decent spell that causes immobility.

This. Even then they have like the worst access to it, 3 stacks sure its AoE but 40seconde cool down and 3 stacks is nothing. It’s on certain other classes that can stack silly amounts of it.

This should have been a Necro only condition with a little more access to, to counter the fact that they have terrible mobility and something like this could be the difference between them escaping and them dying with the right number of stacks

Epic.3950:

necros dont deserve it. they already have the best AOE application of conditions, the highest amount of conditions and a second bloody health pool. In fact nobody deserved it because every build that utilizes it is quite cheesy.

Ignoring the fact they have light armor and TWO forms of defense. Death Shroud which is pretty poor and gets worse the mopre it is attacked unlike dodges, immunities and invuls. Then you get onto combat movement, what do they have? Swiftness and 2 skills that are VERY unreliable

It COULD have been a great DEFENSIVE condition but the class that could have best benefit it gets a weak application on a 40 second cool down…

Condition damage is high enough already, no need for more! GG