Guild Wars 2

The weekly matching system needs to change and the ranking system has to go, for the simple fact that it has become very evident that some servers have an extreme mountain to climb, which in its self is putting their player off from doing from doing WvWvW and others facing the same servers week after week.
There is a very simple solution to this, which is to have the matches on a very win draw or lose.
Win you move up, come second you stay where you are, third you drop down.
Agreed if the winning team or losing team are at a point’s difference where no matter what they do they have no way of losing or winning the end of the week might feel stale but there is still the WvWvW and PvE server bonus to play for.
As most of us whom do play WvWvW are aware that the bonus buffs gained by the points in WvWvW is also attributed to the server PvE world as well.
This system would give servers new opponents every week that would make WvWvW a fresh game every week rather than servers feeling here we go again with the same ole’ same ole’ guilds or what’s the point.

I think servers would stage “Not Trying Week”s to avoid certain servers if they knew where they were going to end up so clearly.

I’d like to at least see a comment from arenanet on where they feel the matching process is.

So many tiers have so many good close battles going on even this week. I think the system is working well and a system that didn’t account for margin of victory would be a lot more dull than the current system.

Yes sometimes there are blowouts and sometimes servers stay in the same tier for too long despite winning or losing consistently but I think a better solution would be to increase the amount of rating gained and lost instead of going to a generic system like the one stated.

Ethose.5694:

So many tiers have so many good close battles going on even this week. I think the system is working well and a system that didn’t account for margin of victory would be a lot more dull than the current system.

Yes sometimes there are blowouts and sometimes servers stay in the same tier for too long despite winning or losing consistently but I think a better solution would be to increase the amount of rating gained and lost instead of going to a generic system like the one stated.

Blowouts aren’t the problem any more, the problem with the current matching system is static tiers for a number of weeks. We only really needed the scoring system to establish initial rankings, its not need now that server pops are more stable, and indeed from all reports the glicko system wasn’t designed to work in a system like WvW is now.

What would be the problem with winning sever going up losing going down? There may be a yo yo effect from week to week but at least there would be more variety.

All people really want out of WvW are fresh, entertaining match-ups and some semblance of parity. The current rating system does work pretty well at achieving balance (minus the mass-transferring knuckleheads), but it’s a bit slow. Switching to a 1st-moves-up, 3rd-moves-down system will have a bit more flip-flopping, but I think it’s an acceptable compromise. Every tier except the top and bottom ones will get 2 new servers rotated in each week.

The problem u will have for the most part is. Winner moves up and gets blown away. Loser drops down and blows away that tier. 2nd place will probally stay in 2nd place. So the week after u r back to the same matchup. Is this gonna happen all the time? No but will happen more times than not. Just imagine a tier 1 server drops to tier 2 and a tier 3 server goes up to tier 2. They will most likely not stand a chance

Valik Shin.9027:

The problem u will have for the most part is. Winner moves up and gets blown away. Loser drops down and blows away that tier.

Servers move down now and still blow away the tier below and servers moving up now don’t necessarily get blown away eg. Dragonbrand.

Valik Shin.9027:

Just imagine a tier 1 server drops to tier 2 and a tier 3 server goes up to tier 2. They will most likely not stand a chance

Tarnished Coast moved to Tier 2 and competed and has stayed there. IOJ didn’t blow tier 3 away.

Let me add another point to the mix.
Anet’s own hype is that they wanted every player to feel like they have accomplished something.
With the matchup system we have now that is not the case.
Just for argument sake and as an example let’s take the two lowest servers in the rankings Vabbi and Eredon Terrace.
Even if they won by holding the entire map for the whole week it would take them 2/3 weeks to even go up a tier with the ranking system as it is now, how would that make you feel if you was on that server, you would most def be looking to move if you was into WvW as there would be no sense of accomplishment should you put the time and effort to try and win.
Ho je wiz you get a shout saying your server came first and nothing more, no new tier for them if they win.
Even my own server has faced the same 2 servers for 3 weeks and looks most likely to go into a 4th week.
Even some guilds do a quick move for a few weeks just for a change of scene, another thing that really needs to be changed to a 30 day ruling or even make it a double up time limit for each change like 7 days for the first, 14 for the second and so on but I digress.
Yes the system has worked up to now to get servers into some sort of order but the need for it has now past, all servers are ready for the system I have suggested, maybe even add some extra spice into the mix as well as in the higher you are the greater the prize at the end of the week or even better a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place prize like say of the top of my head, 100 badges for first, 50 for second 25 for third or even Globs of Ecto, I don’t know just brainstorming.
But non the less I as a player really feel the time is right for the change.

Just a quick addition:
Just looking at this weeks match ups and the results so far the need for this is more prominent than ever

I love WvW and it’s hard to think of a quantitatively more effective system than the Glicko-2 system that’s being employed but, yes, playing the same servers for weeks on end is boring.

The first change that is needed in my opinion is the free 7 day transfer. That’s great as a one time option (or random promo period) for friends to get together but to leave it in place is one of the crazier things I’ve seen in an MMO; ESPECIALLY one that puts so much emphasis on WvW. I refuse to believe that some one in ANet didn’t point out the terrible effects that could have.

Personally, I think that rather than have 8 tiers of three worlds, we should have 4 tiers of six. Then each week, those six would be randomized into two separate WvW matchups. Randomize the colors as well. It’s boring being in the same spot and the same color week after week, especially if you’re also going for world explorer. Under a system like this, there would be far more variety, as you would have five potential rivals for any given week, and you would never know where you were going to end up on the map until you were there.

There just needs to be a larger server pool, so ratings between servers are closer. Of course, unless they NA and EU tiers are merged, this won’t be happening any time soon.

Also, you can’t expect the ratings between the tiers to become closer, since the playstyle of tier 1 is vastly different from that of tier 8, and I think both extremes would agree that don’t want some kitten in-between as the norm for everyone. Both groups are at their respective ends of the spectrum for their own reasons.

morrolan.9608:

Tarnished Coast moved to Tier 2 and competed and has stayed there. IOJ didn’t blow tier 3 away.

And that’s the beauty of the rating system. You get put where you belong.

If TC had moved back down the first week we lost in Tier 2, we would have gone back to t3 and dominated. IoJ would have gone back up to tier 2 after their victory, and got smashed again. Which would be no fun for the 6 servers involved, and would be a karma train for the both green teams.

The system works fine as is EXCEPT for the highest and the lowest tiers because they keep accumulating the best ratings and the worst ratings respectively. So as time goes by you’ll hardly ever see top tier servers drop down and bottom tier servers move up.

The current system is full of flaws which leads to stagnation and griefing.

By allowing mass transfers and the slow adjustment of server rating, ANET is allowing the few large guilds to effectively destroy the tier ranking system, giving them the power to grief other players of low ranked servers they are facing.

Look at the current situation with Kaineng?

Is it fair for the other servers they are competing with? Being out manned 24/7 destroys moral within a server and prevents a community from effectively growing from within.

Outmanned servers have no chance at being competitive and basically creates an un-enjoybable game enviroment for the majority of the wvw players of said server for that whole match up. It effectively demoralizes the player population and makes people quit………

Why play a game where you don’t stand a chance of winning?

Think about what competition is and base systems designed to create it not destroy it……

Think about systems that reward community building and server loyalty……..

Create ssytems that can balance servers despite large popultaion differences…….

All the above can create a more diverse and highly competitive end game.

To be honest im not a big fan of the current rating system and wither its the right one or not remains to be seen.

The simple fact is that when you get servers facing the same ones for weeks on end then there is obviously something wrong with the system. This isn’t happening due to huge influx of people ruining the system it simply does not work right. How can a server who wins there matchup in the lower tiers remain stagnant for what can be for a good few weeks.

People like to see progress/rewards for the amount of effort they put into it, when you put that much effort for what basically is no progress and no reward then people are going to tire of it quickly. Reward can come in various forms and im not talking about items etc but for me my reward is moving up a tier in order to test ourselves against better opposition.

Fighting the same servers week after week and having no progress whatsoever despite finishing first feels like all that effort ive put in was for nothing. I really don’t know why it isn’t just a simpler system of 1st place moves up and 3rd place moves down and 2nd place remains where they are. On Tier 1 and Tier 2 the Tier 1’s 2nd and 3rd move down and Tier 2’s 1st and 2nd move up. That way its constantly refreshing the Tiers and means servers have to constantly be on their toe’s as one bad week they can be demoted and it still means each week its fresh faces rather than the same servers.

Scarran.9845:

Fighting the same servers week after week and having no progress whatsoever despite finishing first feels like all that effort ive put in was for nothing. I really don’t know why it isn’t just a simpler system of 1st place moves up and 3rd place moves down and 2nd place remains where they are. On Tier 1 and Tier 2 the Tier 1’s 2nd and 3rd move down and Tier 2’s 1st and 2nd move up. That way its constantly refreshing the Tiers and means servers have to constantly be on their toe’s as one bad week they can be demoted and it still means each week its fresh faces rather than the same servers.

Because while there are some small issues that can occasionally occur with the current system (we have Kaineng right now and…well that’s really the only problem right now) your proposed system would guarantee problems at least every other week.

To demonstrate, here’s what T5 would look like this week under your proposed system:

Yak’s Bend lost in T4, they move down.

Anvil Rock won in T6, they move up.

Borliss Pass took 2nd in T5, they stay.

Well, two weeks ago, YB beat Maguuma by 60k points. In the real matchup, Maguuma is doubling up the other T5 servers combined. It’s safe to assume YB would be dominating them even further. Two weeks ago, DR scored nearly as much as NSP and AR combined. DR currently is being dominated by Maguuma. It’s safe to assume AR would do even more poorly than DR is. Yes, there were some guild transfers that impacted these scores a bit as well, but not nearly enough to cause a difference in this behavior.

Under the “winner moves up, loser moves down” system, you’re essentially guaranteeing that with limited exception, every other week will have a server who deserves to be in a higher tier beating up on one who deserves to be in a lower tier while one server that deserves to be in that tier desperately tries to hold on to their placement.

Not only does that guarantee frequent bad matchups, it changes the strategy in the weeks that have good matchups. If you’re in a tight race for 2nd (because the team in first has pulled out enough of a lead) and you can see the server coming down next week is going to dominate you, isn’t it in your best interest to lose? That way you can drop a tier and beat up on the servers below you instead of holding your rank status and being destroyed by a server that just has better coverage than you.

morrolan.9608:

I’d like to at least see a comment from arenanet on where they feel the matching process is.

Actually Mike Ferguson just commented on that very subject.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Tier-8-Points-Extremely-Scewed/first#post1190119

My interpretation of his post was that they are happy with the way it is working. Most players I have spoken with are not happy with it but for some reason it matters more that Arenanet is happy with it than that we are :P

I don’t think they understand what server tranfers and being at the losing end of a matchup for a month is doing to some servers. They do not understand or they do not care.

The problem with such a “by the numbers” system is it ignores the human factor, and with games of this type player morale should be a consideration.

Also, we have to remember there are things in between the current system and a simple winner moves up system. This isn’t a binary choice.

fivekiller.1432:

morrolan.9608:

I’d like to at least see a comment from arenanet on where they feel the matching process is.

Actually Mike Ferguson just commented on that very subject.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Tier-8-Points-Extremely-Scewed/first#post1190119

My interpretation of his post was that they are happy with the way it is working. Most players I have spoken with are not happy with it but for some reason it matters more that Arenanet is happy with it than that we are :P

I don’t think they understand what server tranfers and being at the losing end of a matchup for a month is doing to some servers. They do not understand or they do not care.

The problem with such a “by the numbers” system is it ignores the human factor, and with games of this type player morale should be a consideration.

I’m fairly certain you didn’t understand Mike’s post at all.

In his post he states that overall they think the Glicko ranking system is “good enough” but they recognize that it has some serious shortfalls in adapting to sudden changes in server strength. Essentially, Anet views it not as “the best” option but as “the least bad” option.

If server transfers are the problem (and they acknowledged in another thread that server transfers are a problem) fix the server transfers. Changing the ranking system is about the most ridiculous possible solution for fixing server transfers. As was noted, the WvW seems to want to eliminate free transfers, but it seems until the guesting system is properly implemented, that’s not an option.

system is fine, its the players transferring around that choose to ruin it… you should expect to fight the same servers each week as they are the closest to your ability…

would I enjoy randomly being put against a better server where we get owned ? no would i enjoy being randomly put against a much weaker server where we own everything ? no

I’m fine with playing the same servers each week. I just wish they would randomly assign the colors so I could experience battle in the EB from a different side once and a while…

Close matchups are more important than new matchups. There is some value in facing different opponents, but given the choice between a close match against last week’s teams, or a blowout against new teams, the vast majority of people would choose #1.

Also, Bullfrog’s random color assignment suggestion is a very good one.

I prefer new match ups and wither its close or not, the reason being is that different server use different tactics and more times than not its refreshing to fight someone different. If your up against a bigger better server then that’s unfortunate but currently its still happens wither its with the Glicko system in place or not. I would rather test myself and get destroyed but learn something from the better servers than constantly be fighting same servers over and over.

If your fighting the same servers over and over again its like anything that you do over and over again it’s repetitive and get’s boring. There is a reason why people leave MMO’s at end game after there is no progression and nothing else to do, as they get bored doing the same thing over, the same can be said for WvW. No progression and no incentives means people will get bored and stop doing WvW, if servers are winning and still not seeing any movement what incentive is there for competing?

As for the example of servers moving up or not, I don’t think it’s fair that Maguuma who clearly romped to victory deserves to be stuck against teams that they can clearly destroy. I would rather they move up and challenge themselves against the better opposition. The fact of the matter is that wither its YB or Maguuma those other teams are going to be destroyed anyway, it is already looking to be a walk in the park for Maguuma.

Yaks finishing 3rd means the punishment for finishing last place is what? Staying put in the same tier, I don’t think that is right for finishing last place that you just stay put and nothing happens. Wither they are better than their place shows, the simple fact is they lost and therefore should have been relegated to the tier below as a result. If they are as good as you say then they will romp to victory and get back to where they should be. Is it fair on the teams below….nope but to be honest my guess is the team that does get relegated will probably do the same as what is happening just now. You just cant compensate for servers that don’t have the numbers or are just not good enough to compete at a certain level.

I have been in a situation where our server has finished in 2nd place yet got relegated because the servers below us won by that much of a margin that they took our place, despite the fact they weren’t as good as our server, which shows that the rating system is flawed. The same can be said that our server jumped up 2 Tier’s because we got an influx of players yet servers who were working their way up had to stay in the same tier which again was no fault of their own. In short the other server in the tier above us that won that week got punished just because we ended up getting a really good score. Again that is 2 examples of when the Glicko system has its problems, yes one is related to transfers but not all of the issue’s are related to transfers.

Syeria.4812:

fivekiller.1432:

morrolan.9608:

I’d like to at least see a comment from arenanet on where they feel the matching process is.

Actually Mike Ferguson just commented on that very subject.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Tier-8-Points-Extremely-Scewed/first#post1190119

My interpretation of his post was that they are happy with the way it is working. Most players I have spoken with are not happy with it but for some reason it matters more that Arenanet is happy with it than that we are :P

I don’t think they understand what server tranfers and being at the losing end of a matchup for a month is doing to some servers. They do not understand or they do not care.

The problem with such a “by the numbers” system is it ignores the human factor, and with games of this type player morale should be a consideration.

I’m fairly certain you didn’t understand Mike’s post at all.

In his post he states that overall they think the Glicko ranking system is “good enough” but they recognize that it has some serious shortfalls in adapting to sudden changes in server strength. Essentially, Anet views it not as “the best” option but as “the least bad” option.

If server transfers are the problem (and they acknowledged in another thread that server transfers are a problem) fix the server transfers. Changing the ranking system is about the most ridiculous possible solution for fixing server transfers. As was noted, the WvW seems to want to eliminate free transfers, but it seems until the guesting system is properly implemented, that’s not an option.

I’m fairly certain i understand it completely.

The point I was making was more in line with the original posters issue in regards to matchups lasting for too long and not so much about the server transfers.

You and many others seem to be addressing this thing from the perspective of server transfers ruining matchups. I was addressing a similar situation where stale matchups cause server transfers.

The issues are similar enough though I can see where you confused them and missed the point of my original rant.

As far as them considering it the “least bad” option. That was fully my point. It is not necessarily the “least bad” option and simply because it has some utility does not make it the best imperfect option. I and others are disappointed to see a post which all but states they are happy with their poor system.

I never stated Anet thinks the system they have is perfect, I only stated I felt that post there indicated they were happy with it.

Yeah I got the impression they feel WvW is close to being exactly what they want. RIP WvW.