Guild Wars 2

I haven’t been doing sPvP or WvW for long, maybe a year of WvW and a half for the other, so I am not really what you’d call sufficiently experienced to be an accurate judge of this entire system as a whole package, so take this as mere opinion and not advice or suggestion.

I’ll say this as humbly as I can, I don’t like it…

My first character for WvW was a scrapper, and the first thing I noticed after getting to know my build that was shared by someone else, was: “Wow, scrapper is so forgiving to play! I can just leap into a pile of the enemy zerg and walk right out again! Thanks to the double Elixir S procs!”.

I made some legit HORRIBLE plays after this, plays I shouldn’t have been allowed to walk out alive from. I leapt right into enemy piles again and again and again, and I was allowed to walk right back out after doing my damage, again and again and again. As long as I was backed by a line of allies to retreat behind, I could do this indefinitely.

And maybe that’s the point? That these frontliners with invulnerability, are kind of like boarders on a ship, so to speak, leaping from your own ship to the enemys, doing a little damage to the enemy crew, then swinging back to the deck of your own ship before you get focused?

But this is not just about the scrapper, I swapped classes see, because I felt kinda cheap, and brought a Revenant instead. Wouldn’t you know it, they have their invuls too! And I can make the same plays as I could on my Engineer (albeit to a lesser extent, success rate went down).

Then I see enemy warriors doing the same… I tried a guardians and they have blocks, invuls, stabs, clears, you name it. Thieves might be the biggest offender as they get evades for DAYS, although I don’t think they have much impact on zerg v zerg.

I know that individual skill matters less and less the more people you cram into one combat-zone, and it’s hard to design a game to make a player feel relevant in such an encounter, but I don’t think the solution to feeling relevant is letting players be literally invincible to leap into the middle of a squad of 50 people, do their damage, and walk out while being targeted by every enemy in the zerg, and get out unharmed.

So those are my thoughts. While invuls frustrate me, they won’t stop me from playing the game in any gamemode.

I’ve said my piece, I think! See you in the field!

u seeem to put dodges in the same category as elixir s and endure pain and all that jazz.

So what would be ur ideal then for damage mitigation?
Blocks? Damage reduction? Insane healing? resistance? high health/toughness pool?
Might be able to point u in the right direction for a build if we know more. I agree that invulnerabilites like elixir S and mist form and endure pain spammage are an eyesore. But I don’t believe that dodges should be put in the same category.

I mean my warrior build doesn’t use any endure pains or in-vulnerabilities of the sort mentioned outside of resistance. There are options is all i’m saying.

There’s only one case where I’d put dodge in the same category as invuls, and that’s with Thief, but only because of Daredevil. Thief doesn’t have reliable access to resistance, stab or invuls like the other classes, so the focus on evades there is understandable. I don’t count dodge for the other classes.

Haha, I don’t have a solution or ideal form of damage mitigation, there’s so much of it. This is purely sharing my thoughts on the matter, I am not clever enough to come up with a universal solution to this, and even if I could, maybe I shouldn’t roll it.

I think the scale tipped after HoT released and the power-creep just flushed over the game, but I can’t really claim that with confidence as I wasn’t playing WvW before that, so I don’t know how it was.

Well, you’ve pretty much figured out now why most seriously competitive players have dropped GW2; A lot of the defense in this game is passive and requires little thought or little resource management. It was always around a little bit, and bad players will still not do as well as good ones, but it makes for a large number of issues in the PvP systems that are for many, not considered fun or engaging. Even in the case of the Daredevil, it’s still not exactly requiring acts of brilliance to fuel repeated dodges and negate most incoming damage and recover from big misplays. All of the core builds are much more punishing of mistakes for the most part.

HoT definitely exacerbated this via the power creep – notably through just bringing in more numerous potent defenses in general to match the massive damage power creep, but the big culprit, passive defenses, is something which people have been asking for the removal of pretty much since day 1.

ANet refuses to let go of the notion of Build Wars 2, sadly.

Well all of that is due pve and how dev’s feel the classes should survive in its spam pve design… classes are pure pve design at the end.

@Aeolus – That’s funny you say that, when Scrapper was obviously designed purely for PvP and WvW…..

@OP – There is too much spam in general in the game right now. Too many passive defenses and passive procs for sure. I would like to see it all toned down for sure. Though I have to say, DD’s (core thief doesn’t have nearly the evade spam that DD does) evade spam has already been nerfed significantly, and I think its dodges are in a good spot right now other than unhindered combatant (seriously, “inhibiting” conditions are supposed to be one of the counters to dodge spam, so being able to trait your dodge to remove them is not healthy in my opinion).

I would really like to see most passive defenses removed, more passive procs removed, more flat dmg bonuses removed from traits, and just condi and boon application reduced across the board. It would make the game much better to play.

wtf time to bring out my zerker ele 365 meteor spam l33t as shet its been sitting collecting cobwebs for way too long she is the only class i will love to play

Oh, just wait till you see mesmers…between the blocks, evades and invulns, you’ll probably get bored and log off before there’s an opportunity to hit them.

It’s dumb, but it’s pretty far down on the list of urgent problems. More annoying than game-breaking.

OriOri.8724:

@Aeolus – That’s funny you say that, when Scrapper was obviously designed purely for PvP and WvW…..

@OP – There is too much spam in general in the game right now. Too many passive defenses and passive procs for sure. I would like to see it all toned down for sure. Though I have to say, DD’s (core thief doesn’t have nearly the evade spam that DD does) evade spam has already been nerfed significantly, and I think its dodges are in a good spot right now other than unhindered combatant (seriously, “inhibiting” conditions are supposed to be one of the counters to dodge spam, so being able to trait your dodge to remove them is not healthy in my opinion).

I would really like to see most passive defenses removed, more passive procs removed, more flat dmg bonuses removed from traits, and just condi and boon application reduced across the board. It would make the game much better to play.

Thats only scrapper though and if i may add alot of people when raids came out were using revs and scrappers to break the bars on raid bosses.

Even when premiering raids as the next exciting thing for the game, the devs were using scrapper.

Obviously there have been alot of changes but i think scrapper was suppose to play that bruiser/support role in raids but they simply dropped the ball comp wise across the board.

Without invulnerability procs, resistance and what-have-you, what happens to front-liners when they attempt to close with the enemy zerg? They are hit with the same massive amounts of AoE from wells, traps, marks, etc. that their zerg is using. If there are too many defensive procs, there are also way too many AoE skills. I don’t find it any more frustrating to attack someone and do no damage than it is to not have anywhere to move to because of 2-3 dozen overlapping red circles. Either you can ignore the AoE spam or you die, there’s no middle ground.

OriOri.8724:

@Aeolus – That’s funny you say that, when Scrapper was obviously designed purely for PvP and WvW…..

@OP – There is too much spam in general in the game right now. Too many passive defenses and passive procs for sure. I would like to see it all toned down for sure. Though I have to say, DD’s (core thief doesn’t have nearly the evade spam that DD does) evade spam has already been nerfed significantly, and I think its dodges are in a good spot right now other than unhindered combatant (seriously, “inhibiting” conditions are supposed to be one of the counters to dodge spam, so being able to trait your dodge to remove them is not healthy in my opinion).

I would really like to see most passive defenses removed, more passive procs removed, more flat dmg bonuses removed from traits, and just condi and boon application reduced across the board. It would make the game much better to play.

This is the WvW forum, DD dodge spam has barely been touched and you can run orian meat stew or whatever it’s called for passive 40% endurance regen.

There’s too many defences in the game for some builds/classes, some have been toned down but others are still very prevalent and 1 mistake sees 20-60s of set up for a kill negated. Maybe it’s just a counterplay issue though where many defences or survivability skills only have a few counters in skills rather than counters in actions.

DeceiverX.8361:

Well, you’ve pretty much figured out now why most seriously competitive players have dropped GW2; A lot of the defense in this game is passive and requires little thought or little resource management.

This is a big part of why I don’t roam as much as I used to nor do I take losing as seriously as I used to.

I don’t know about everyone else but personally, I do not enjoy losing because of mechanics. I appreciate/recognize when someone is better than me or when I’ve made crucial mistakes but those kinds of fights are getting fewer and further between. Both with the people I fight and with myself as well, there are just so many times where either I win and I shouldn’t have or my opponent wins and they shouldn’t have because of mechanics.

With that said, WvW isn’t designed with small scale combat in mind. It’s a large scale semi-sandbox type environment and people shouldn’t go there expecting perfect balance (or any at all). It’s unfortunate that that’s the way it is but there’s still fun to be had despite the faults.

I enjoy all areas of WvW but I’d be lying if I said I enjoy it as much now as I did pre-HoT. I very much miss the glory days of roaming when it felt like your decisions and skill had a greater impact on the outcome of your fights. Now, it’s pretty much rock, paper, scissors and occasionally someone brings a bazooka.

I agree. There is a lot of passive damage mitigation now. You know something is wrong when you see "invulnerable invulnerable invulnerable invulnerable invulnerable immune immune immune immune" just about as much as you see damage numbers. I don’t mind evades and blocks because at least it shows that the player is required to make a judgement call. ArenaNet’s PvP design tanked after the Heart of Thorns release. There is so much passive play, skill spam, and AoE spam that (in my opinion) PvP in either mode for Guild Wars 2 can’t really be taken but so seriously anymore.

It’s still a great game and I am always hoping that these balance issues change down the road. Sadly, I just don’t think being a PvE centered game that ArenaNet can tune class mechanics enough to make balanced and fun PvP play.

EDIT: GRAMMATICAL CORRECTIONS

Well,i’m a scrapper,and i main Engineer sicne i started playing the game.

Double elixir S is stupid in “some” situations,but the one you are talking of (jump in the zerg and be able to get out) is teh only situation you cannot really blame double elixir S.

Let me ask you this:If not using scrapper with hammer,what else can you play in zerg WvW situations?
May be:
Engineer with condis?In zerg fights?mmmh…
Engineer rifle + mortar for ranged damage with all teh zerg fields spam that blocks reflect projectiles?mmmhhh….

If you played this game long enough with one class,you should be able to understand certain limit every class have.
In the specific example of the scrapper,hammmer,sadly,is the only viable thing we have at moment,and be able to jump in the enemy zerg and get out with my elixir S is the lonely thing coupled with thunderclap that allows me to tag at least 4-5 enemy.

Or do you pretend a scrapper to jump in the enemy zerg with just 3 stack of stability stripped from necros in 0.0001 seconds and come out alive after that surviving all the CCs in the middle of enemy lines?

That told,a side detail is that scrappers hardly can get in squads,especially in t1 i find my self kicked very often from every squad(last time was 4 days ago,and after i got kicked the map chat was spammed for 2 hours cause the were free spots for guardians and revenants ONLY,the comander tagged down without have a full squad in 2 hours and a half).
So,counting only on my self buff,counting only on my self sustain,counting only on my class mechanics,i can still push in the middle of enemy zerg and tag my bags.

Without the double elixir S i would not be able to do that.
Without elixir S i would be forced to spam a mortar 1000+ range shot that gets reflected 70% of the time i spam it.
Without elixir S i would be forced to play c a n c e r(condi) and try snipe on the side of the zergs like a theif,with just less escape ability of a theif.
“To escape you are better than theif cause you have stealth gyro and toss elixir S for stealth on demand!!!!1111!!!11!!!!111” : yes i have stealth on demand,but i have 0 mobility,stealth it’s absically uselees when you are flanking a zerg with 0 mobility.

That told,immagine all the zerg fights inside of keeps and towers,that can last 30+ minutes each,where there are multiple zerg collision during that time…well try to play without elixir S there,or try to play a thief in that stituation to see how unfun it can be for a “sniping” class play that game.

Try play a thief while sniping ppls in open fields zerg flanking all the time….it’s not that easy eighter…we are speaking of zerg surfing/sniping here,with the 100% probability that while you are sniping the side of the zerg your theif friend,5-6 enemy while focus you to save their team mates,forcing the 2 theives to flee away without scoring anything most of the times.
Oh…and the only thing that allows the theif to flee in that situation in 6 vs 2 , is the so called dodge spam + teleport.

I agree 100% that mechanincs are more than annoying in 1 vs 1 , be it a double invulnerability , be it a dodge spam,etc.
But in big scale fights,every singe dodge,every single invulnerability,block,stealth, and passive “save my axx” ability matters for some classes.

In the end,before point out to some overpowered ability,is better to contestualize/decontestualize it better.

I hope you will agree with that.

apharma.3741:

OriOri.8724:

@Aeolus – That’s funny you say that, when Scrapper was obviously designed purely for PvP and WvW…..

@OP – There is too much spam in general in the game right now. Too many passive defenses and passive procs for sure. I would like to see it all toned down for sure. Though I have to say, DD’s (core thief doesn’t have nearly the evade spam that DD does) evade spam has already been nerfed significantly, and I think its dodges are in a good spot right now other than unhindered combatant (seriously, “inhibiting” conditions are supposed to be one of the counters to dodge spam, so being able to trait your dodge to remove them is not healthy in my opinion).

I would really like to see most passive defenses removed, more passive procs removed, more flat dmg bonuses removed from traits, and just condi and boon application reduced across the board. It would make the game much better to play.

This is the WvW forum, DD dodge spam has barely been touched and you can run orian meat stew or whatever it’s called for passive 40% endurance regen.

There’s too many defences in the game for some builds/classes, some have been toned down but others are still very prevalent and 1 mistake sees 20-60s of set up for a kill negated. Maybe it’s just a counterplay issue though where many defences or survivability skills only have a few counters in skills rather than counters in actions.

Oh, I did forget what forum I was in. True, the evade spam for DD could still be lowered a bit then. And by that its mostly the endurance regen that needs to be addressed.

I just remember that before HoT there was like 100 vizuna players in SM wall and i just run through all of them with my hammer warrior. Barely even took any dmg and didn’t use any invulnerability. Nowadays you drop dead like fly.

The only invuln that really irritates me is on the Mesmer. The class shouldn’t have high evade, invuln, stealth, blocks, etc up time mixed in with clones.

The passive Warrior invuln is a bit much but only a bit.

Elixir S has the disadvantage of locking you out of your skills, and previously applied condis still hurt you. It’s actually not that great fighting against condi heavy groups (or even people)

Sometimes Auto-S actually can get you killed.

Guardian invul has a very long cooldown. The blocks can be nullified in a single hit, with the exception of the barriers they put up which is annoying. The one that faces forward can be countered just by going behind them.

Warriors are the most annoying due to their passive healing and auto-endure pain at 50%. Though note Endure Pain is not a true invul. All CC/Condis work unless they blow another slot on resistance, in which case the benny hill music plays for a bit and then stuff resumes as usual.

Note that these classes have to make concessions if they want all these things, stay mobile, and be able to kill you. Because that’s balance. You generally don’t have a build that can evade damage constantly, be mobile, do tons of damage, and be hard to kill because only a completely incompetent balance team would allow such a thing to happen.

Rest assured, WvW doesn’t have an incompetent balance team. You can’t be incompetent if you don’t exist after all.

Oh wait, I guess you have a point.

But think about it like this. Without these things there is no way to stop a determined attack on you by 10 people, much less 50. Now sure, you shouldn’t be able to fight 10 people, but it wouldn’t be very fun to instantly blow up before you can leave, and during HoT we had the “pirate ship” meta where people engaged in staring contests on who would get bored and push first.

Is it balance? No. Is it even well thought out? No. But it does work, as WvW is effectively in a state of anarchy.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I appreciate/recognize when someone is better than me or when I’ve made crucial mistakes but those kinds of fights are getting fewer and further between. Both with the people I fight and with myself as well, there are just so many times where either I win and I shouldn’t have or my opponent wins and they shouldn’t have because of mechanics.

As someone who only plays small scale, I perfectly relate to that.
Depending on whom I’m playing at a given moment, I know there’re fights that I can engage and when I lose, I end up saying “should better’ve done that”. These are the exception.

Unfortunately, there also are encounters which I don’t even try. Because I know, just from the profession, some skills, food and utility, that I’ll be helpless. Not because of skill, but because of perma evades, perma invulns, or perma stuns. In a nutshell : mechanics that allow the opposite player to play as if my chair was empty and I was afk brewing some tea. Of course, the set of encounters varies upon the toon I’m playing, but as I can change toon on the fly…

That said, some may argue it’s mechanics, and it’s balance : you can’t kill anyone with every toon. Some encounters have to be harder than others, there’re natural enemies, etc. I agree with that. To me, issue is : natural enemies aren’t skilled players or smart tactics in that game. Natural enemies are mechanics favoring a one-sided fight, and eventually making me feel helpless.

ThomasC.1056:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I appreciate/recognize when someone is better than me or when I’ve made crucial mistakes but those kinds of fights are getting fewer and further between. Both with the people I fight and with myself as well, there are just so many times where either I win and I shouldn’t have or my opponent wins and they shouldn’t have because of mechanics.

As someone who only plays small scale, I perfectly relate to that.
Depending on whom I’m playing at a given moment, I know there’re fights that I can engage and when I lose, I end up saying “should better’ve done that”. These are the exception.

Unfortunately, there also are encounters which I don’t even try. Because I know, just from the profession, some skills, food and utility, that I’ll be helpless. Not because of skill, but because of perma evades, perma invulns, or perma stuns. In a nutshell : mechanics that allow the opposite player to play as if my chair was empty and I was afk brewing some tea. Of course, the set of encounters varies upon the toon I’m playing, but as I can change toon on the fly…

That said, some may argue it’s mechanics, and it’s balance : you can’t kill anyone with every toon. Some encounters have to be harder than others, there’re natural enemies, etc. I agree with that. To me, issue is : natural enemies aren’t skilled players or smart tactics in that game. Natural enemies are mechanics favoring a one-sided fight, and eventually making me feel helpless.

To give a perfect example;

There was a time I was fighting a meta Berserker who was using Rousing Resilience, Dead Or Alive and GS + Mace/Shield with Durability runes (mind you I was also using Mace/Shield at this time) and I interrupted so many of his attacks. I’m talking countering his bursts and other heavy hitters constantly. This fight went on for a solid 8 minutes until I literally ran away because I couldn’t kill him even though I was massively outplaying him evading/interrupting/countering crucial skills.

But, I wasn’t running the meta traits and I wasn’t using Berserker Stance so in the end, had I stayed around, he would have won.

That’s what I hate. Losing to mechanics and not to the player. I wasn’t using some kind of in-effective slapped together build.

If I lose because a player is better than me, if I lose because I made a mistake/poor judgement call, if I lose because I’m using an off meta not-super-effective build, all of that is fine. It’s when I lose because my opponent is being carried by mechanics that I hate and those kinds of fights are becoming more and more common.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

To give a perfect example;

There was a time I was fighting a meta Berserker who was using Rousing Resilience, Dead Or Alive and GS + Mace/Shield with Durability runes (mind you I was also using Mace/Shield at this time) and I interrupted so many of his attacks. I’m talking countering his bursts and other heavy hitters constantly. This fight went on for a solid 8 minutes until I literally ran away because I couldn’t kill him even though I was massively outplaying him evading/interrupting/countering crucial skills.

But, I wasn’t running the meta traits and I wasn’t using Berserker Stance so in the end, had I stayed around, he would have won.

That’s what I hate. Losing to mechanics and not to the player. I wasn’t using some kind of in-effective slapped together build.

If I lose because a player is better than me, if I lose because I made a mistake/poor judgement call, if I lose because I’m using an off meta not-super-effective build, all of that is fine. It’s when I lose because my opponent is being carried by mechanics that I hate and those kinds of fights are becoming more and more common.

I guarantee that the other war honestly believes he outplayed you. And that’s one of the consequences of making some classes so innately powerful through traits alone. It takes all the skill out of it, and then when its dialed back, people never stop kittening, because they never learned how to properly play and were carried by their traits.

https://clips.twitch.tv/GoldenTastyWolverineKeepo This fight took the better part of 15 mins.

Straegen.2938:

The only invuln that really irritates me is on the Mesmer. The class shouldn’t have high evade, invuln, stealth, blocks, etc up time mixed in with clones.

The passive Warrior invuln is a bit much but only a bit.

True, but can u imagine how many mesmer could burst targets before go down?
Alot of mesmers are being carried by how the class works, and most mesmers cant understand how even strong the class is lol… they dont evade that much.

And mesmer needs all that for pve gameplay its ment to have burst and all those stuff , actually mesmer trade off arent that well designed overall.

mesmer power burst is telegraphed up the kitten and the class gets crippled by killing its phantasms with cleave

It is a major problem that has made the combat in the game far less satisfying but the flip side of this is that there’s just so much easily deliverable damage now too that it’s so much easier to kill someone when they’re not blocking/evading/invulnerable than it was before HoT/specialisation update. Sometimes I kill people in this game with minimal effort and I just shudder now. All the finesse of a well timed burst has just evaporated from this game.

I miss the invuln at the base of the cliffs in Vale. It was like watching people face dive into spawn guards. You’d think folks would learn, but no.

Then Anet “fixed” it.

Boo.

Straegen.2938:

The only invuln that really irritates me is on the Mesmer. The class shouldn’t have high evade, invuln, stealth, blocks, etc up time mixed in with clones.

The passive Warrior invuln is a bit much but only a bit.

The Nike warrior is obnoxious.

Just accept it. Anet has adopted the “pay money to get stronger” mantra.

Next expansion will probably have every elite spec doing 30k damage in one shot with perma invuln / stealth.

ded gaem

Pancake.3092:

Just accept it. Anet has adopted the “pay money to get stronger” mantra.

Next expansion will probably have every elite spec doing 30k damage in one shot with perma invuln / stealth.

ded gaem

“ANet dont made class progression trough armor”but its mandatory to have the new progressions traitlines on the expact if u wanna get carried wit the new the easy gimmicks…"

While they shutdown what was working as well, to make the new stuff acceptable since has alot of power creep players will say its baalanced since they dont need much effort.

Jus like they did with the stupid DH with traps……

ThomasC.1056:

As someone who only plays small scale, I perfectly relate to that.
Depending on whom I’m playing at a given moment, I know there’re fights that I can engage and when I lose, I end up saying “should better’ve done that”. These are the exception.

Unfortunately, there also are encounters which I don’t even try. Because I know, just from the profession, some skills, food and utility, that I’ll be helpless. Not because of skill, but because of perma evades, perma invulns, or perma stuns. In a nutshell : mechanics that allow the opposite player to play as if my chair was empty and I was afk brewing some tea. Of course, the set of encounters varies upon the toon I’m playing, but as I can change toon on the fly…

That said, some may argue it’s mechanics, and it’s balance : you can’t kill anyone with every toon. Some encounters have to be harder than others, there’re natural enemies, etc. I agree with that. To me, issue is : natural enemies aren’t skilled players or smart tactics in that game. Natural enemies are mechanics favoring a one-sided fight, and eventually making me feel helpless.

Personally I find this sort of reasoning/attitude some of the stupidest I’ve ever seen. Instead of trying to actually improve, you’re approaching fights expecting to lose instantly and not trying to figure out ways to beat them? To me thats laughable, especially when you’re consider the average skill of wvw players out there. Even playing specs that shouldn’t be winning fights, I never have that attitude and it turns out you can easily outplay the vast majority of players even when they’re using specs that should counter yours.

Another thing that frustrates me about this thread are the number of people that seem to think that warrior has invulns or that they are too strong. Warriors got a huge nerf recently with the increased cast time on some burst skills. Along with this endure pain autoproc doesn’t help them one bit against conditions and as a player you should be able to just trigger the proc and then kite them during the duration. Warrior certainly isn’t too strong.

If you know most players take a auto proccing invuln, then play around it and time your skills better. Someone mentioned in this thread they get tired of seeing “invuln invuln etc” to me that just means this player is too dumb to stop attacking and is wasting cds while the invuln is up instead of reacting appropriately.

It’s weird if i play mesmer for example i feel that i don’t have have nearly enough blocks and invulnerability, but when i fight against one i feel that they have too much. Could we give mesmer more blocks and invulnerability when i play one and less when i play some other class?

I have long believed competitive games should never have all or nothing skills. Invulnerability and Resistance should greatly reduce incoming damage but not fully exclude it. At the very least Invuln and Resist shouldn’t make a player immune to immobilize.

they need to do two simple things,remove all proc from all classes and than just simply give every single class same invu/block time.

daw.4923:

they need to do two simple things,remove all proc from all classes and than just simply give every single class same invu/block time.

If you did that, what if you made blocking something akin to the break-bar? A limited pool of it’s own that can block for a set duration, but can break before that if it suffers enough damage.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

This is a big part of why I don’t roam as much as I used to nor do I take losing as seriously as I used to.

I don’t know about everyone else but personally, I do not enjoy losing because of mechanics. I appreciate/recognize when someone is better than me or when I’ve made crucial mistakes but those kinds of fights are getting fewer and further between. Both with the people I fight and with myself as well, there are just so many times where either I win and I shouldn’t have or my opponent wins and they shouldn’t have because of mechanics.

And it works the reverse way too. I rarely feel like I’ve beaten someone, I just made a build that works and they die without me doing anything. It’s pretty hollow compared to when I used to roam on a core LB ranger before RF had its speed double, the arrows could be avoided by sidestepping, and signets only affected the pet.

Fluffball.8307:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

This is a big part of why I don’t roam as much as I used to nor do I take losing as seriously as I used to.

I don’t know about everyone else but personally, I do not enjoy losing because of mechanics. I appreciate/recognize when someone is better than me or when I’ve made crucial mistakes but those kinds of fights are getting fewer and further between. Both with the people I fight and with myself as well, there are just so many times where either I win and I shouldn’t have or my opponent wins and they shouldn’t have because of mechanics.

And it works the reverse way too. I rarely feel like I’ve beaten someone, I just made a build that works and they die without me doing anything. It’s pretty hollow compared to when I used to roam on a core LB ranger before RF had its speed double, the arrows could be avoided by sidestepping, and signets only affected the pet.

I still roam on a vanilla longbow Ranger because I’m stubborn. This is when I blame myself if I die, though. Because I’m deliberately putting myself at a disadvantage and I’m not skilled enough to win the uphill fights against equally skilled players.

I do just fine the majority of the time because I know my class and my limits, but I also know when I would have won a fight if I were using something more “effective.” It’s depressing to say the least.

But absolutely I understand what you mean. I’ve recently been experimenting with builds on my Ranger actually and I couldn’t believe how easy meta Druid was. Didn’t enjoy it one bit, nothing that feels effectively autopilot is fun for me.

Really just slows down the fight. Not much else. They still drop like rocks. Also, engi S proc has gotten people killed far more often than it saved them.