Guild Wars 2

Problem:

A tier 4 server is fighting in tier 2 and can hardly breath, one of the strongest servers in t2 are matched against a t4 and a t3 server with the scores being a total blow out.

The weekend is when things are at their tightest, the gaps between these servers in scorelines will only get larger as the week progresses.

Getting rid of stale matchups is a brilliant initiative, it is something that I have been asking for since last December. However this has not been thought through properly.

We need variation, but we don’t want horrible mismatches, there is a simple solution that I have been stating this entire time.

Solution:

My solution is like European football, every tier has promotion and relegation. Top of the table (1st) gets promotion, bottom of the table (3rd) gets relegation, and 2nd stays where they are. This is so simple to implement, it does not require any complex equations, rng or formulae.

This would mean, that every server always has something to play for, without being horribly mismatched or stuck in ground hog day. Every week is 100% guarenteed to be different from the last week.

There is extra incentive for a server to come 1st to move up a tier, and there is also extra incentive for all the servers to avoid 3rd so that they do not move down. There is a chance that there will be a similar pattern every fortnight (if a server is too strong for a certain tier, yet too weak for another, they will move back and forth constantly, tasting both defeat and victory), but at least they keep getting a chance to test themselves against the next level!

Let’s imagine this system was patched in yesterday, for last week we had the servers finish.

Finishing positions:

Tier 1

1. Sanctum of Rall
2. Blackgate
3. Jade Quarry

Tier 2

4. Tarnished Coast
5. Fort Aspenwood
6. Dragonband

Tier 3

7. Maguuma
8. Kaineng
9. Yak’s Bend

Tier 4

10. Sea of Sorrows
11. Crystal Desert
12. Stormbluff Isle

Tier 5

13. Ehmray Bay
14. Borlis Pass
15. Anvil Rock

1st moves up, 3rd moves down. it would look like this:

This weeks new match up

Tier 1

Sanctum of Rall vs Blackgate vs Tarnished Coast

Tier 2

Jade Quarry vs Fort Aspenwood vs Maguuma

Tier 3

Dragonbrand vs Kaineng vs Sea of Sorrows

Tier 4

Yak’s Bend vs Crystal Desert vs Emhray Bay

Tier 5

Stormbluff Isle vs Borlis Pass vs Darkhaven

Thumbs up this thread if you would rather see my proposed match ups and leave your feedback if you are not happy with the new match making system.

I also firmly believe that this will help reduce the gulf of WvW population differences between tiers, and it will encourage more guilds to stay on their servers as they will have something to play for every week.

And in case you haven’t seen the latest scores

http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups

Great idea. I was wondering since beginning why they don’t use such easy and effective system. But tbh I dont have hope for it anymore. I guess they will try to improve current system (hopefully they will manage to) for next weeks/months.

Any random matchmaking is too dangerous for balance. Tiers were so tight, going 1 up or 1 down was already big difference. Anything more than it is just slaughter.

About your examples how it looks now: In EU we have middle-T7 server fighting T4 and T3 ones

The difference between #1 in tier 2 and #1 in tier 1 are pretty substantial, so #1 in tier 2 is merely going to ping pong back and forth. In truth this will be the case for most tiers. Realistically there isn’t a solution that will ever work for everyone because the populations are so imbalanced in terms of wvw, which grows more and more apparent the higher tiers you climb.

In Fifa teams have different skill levels of course, but they all field the same amount of players. Going up 1 and down 1 type of system, is essentially how the last system worked, but at a much slower rate, speeding it up is imo, only a temporary solution to a much larger problem.

Indeed, but we’re not comparing #1 of tier 1 vs #1 of tier 2, we are comparing #3 in tier 1 vs #1 of tier 2, is that gap really that substantial? If there is a gap, it is because the tiers have been so isolated apart from each other for so long. This would help bridge the gaps

Example, I have noticed that different tiers have different strategies and tactics. When they are faced against each other, the loser is forced to adapt the tactics of the winner, or at least a counter. If Tarnished Coast were to come to tier 1 for a week only to finish 3rd, then they will go back to tier 2 as a more experienced server compared to when they left, and if TC start using these tactics against their tier 2 opponents, the other tier 2 servers will have no choice but to also adapt to those tactics and the information will spread! When TC go back to tier 1 a 2nd time, they will be a better server than compared to when they first saw tier 1.

Also, FIFA teams have different skill levels that is correct, but the skill of the players correlates to how much money the club has. The objective of a newly promoted team in football is to stay afloat in their new tier, and the objective of a demoted team is to get back up to the tier they came from. Which is no different to the aim of every WvW server.

You forgot Tier EU – Where every EU server are bunched together because no one cares to compare them to European football.

I was thinking the exact same thing!

Loser gets kicked out, winner gets moved up.

I think one thing that gets lost a little bit lost is how strong each tier actually is. It’s hard to properly compare them to servers of other tiers because, well, we never face them. If each tier could get a taste of what a tier’s server was like, people could have a fair idea and would know what it needs to become stronger to compete with the heavier servers.

But screw soccer!

The problem here is every guild stacking on the same servers, ones the guilds eventually destack then stuff will even out abit more.

Cirus.5748:

Indeed, but we’re not comparing #1 of tier 1 vs #1 of tier 2, we are comparing #3 in tier 1 vs #1 of tier 2, is that gap really that substantial? If there is a gap, it is because the tiers have been so isolated apart from each other for so long. This would help bridge the gaps

Example, I have noticed that different tiers have different strategies and tactics. When they are faced against each other, the loser is forced to adapt the tactics of the winner, or at least a counter. If Tarnished Coast were to come to tier 1 for a week only to finish 3rd, then they will go back to tier 2 as a more experienced server compared to when they left, and if TC start using these tactics against their tier 2 opponents, the other tier 2 servers will have no choice but to also adapt to those tactics and the information will spread! When TC go back to tier 1 a 2nd time, they will be a better server than compared to when they first saw tier 1.

You’re not taking into account the major factor that a server population is. Of course once in a while a small group will defeat a bigger one, but in the end, they won’t be able to control enough objectives to score points. Quality < Quantity sadly.

Cirus.5748:

Indeed, but we’re not comparing #1 of tier 1 vs #1 of tier 2, we are comparing #3 in tier 1 vs #1 of tier 2, is that gap really that substantial? If there is a gap, it is because the tiers have been so isolated apart from each other for so long. This would help bridge the gaps

Example, I have noticed that different tiers have different strategies and tactics. When they are faced against each other, the loser is forced to adapt the tactics of the winner, or at least a counter. If Tarnished Coast were to come to tier 1 for a week only to finish 3rd, then they will go back to tier 2 as a more experienced server compared to when they left, and if TC start using these tactics against their tier 2 opponents, the other tier 2 servers will have no choice but to also adapt to those tactics and the information will spread! When TC go back to tier 1 a 2nd time, they will be a better server than compared to when they first saw tier 1.

Also, FIFA teams have different skill levels that is correct, but the skill of the players correlates to how much money the club has. The objective of a newly promoted team in football is to stay afloat in their new tier, and the objective of a demoted team is to get back up to the tier they came from. Which is no different to the aim of every WvW server.

I think the winning strategy here is, transfer servers.

Still it’ll be a novelty for the smaller servers. There’s nothing quite like being one of 3 defenders watch a 50man zerg drop 3 superior rams for a tower and think “Why did they bother?”.

Mismatches are expected for the first week of this type of change. It will continue to be this way for the short-term future – what the system tries to accomplish is a better representation of server strength by the ratings and some added unpredictability when servers eventually even out in strength. It’s not a magical instrument that suddenly ensures even matchups in every bracket like many self-entitled people seem to think.

I have often wondered whether running a league system would make more sense where everyone gets to fight every one else, or maybe two leagues with promotion and demotion for the top and bottom few slots every month.

Would be interesting to see how you might implement that and how it would play out. There might be blow outs of course but there is in any league system and at least each server gets to test their metal against each other. I think some of the results might be surprising.

You’re overlooking the match with crystal desert. They would never have had a chance to prove themselves against those opponents with the old system, yet they spent most of the day comfortably winning. Games like that are the reason why this will be a success in the long term. Also I’m rather enjoying fighting t2 servers tyvm. Getting beaten by players is so much better than head bashing through walls for victory.

People get too obsessed with the score, that’s this games biggest problem IMHO.

Tobias Steele.2071:

You’re overlooking the match with crystal desert. They would never have had a chance to prove themselves against those opponents with the old system, yet they spent most of the day comfortably winning. Games like that are the reason why this will be a success in the long term. Also I’m rather enjoying fighting t2 servers tyvm. Getting beaten by players is so much better than head bashing through walls for victory.

People get too obsessed with the score, that’s this games biggest problem IMHO.

It is great if you can field the population to not get roflstomped….

I agree that the old system was broken, but this is not a solution for everyone, this is highlighting what the real problems are.

Apparently a complex rating system is better than common sense. Would love for this to happen, but I cant see them going with something simple.