Guild Wars 2

Just got owned by a thief after this particular thief wrecked another dude. I officially quit this piece of kitten game.

Let me say this. and I welcome all that may challenge me. I know my class (warrior) like the back of my hand and I know what do when facing most classes. The fact that I got completely owned by one class is not acceptable at all and this just made me quit this kitten game (swtor here I come back).

The thief class with an unlimited amount of vanishes is complete cheater mode. Especially when they are coupled with back to back 4-6k hits. How this dumb kitten company allows this to happen is beyond me and I’m not one to put up with the bullkitten.

Anet – you lazy kitten good for nothing devs have allowed one class to have a distinct advantage over the rest and you just made a die hard fan boy quit.

Thanks,

Carbun

Make some friends. Run with a group.

My main is a warrior also but play as a tank, paper rock scissors. Sadly thieves are the paper to everyones rock. I mostly mesmer now though. thieves avoid me like the plague on mesmer

Seren.6850:

My main is a warrior also but play as a tank, paper rock scissors. Sadly thieves are the paper to everyones rock. I mostly mesmer now though. thieves avoid me like the plague on mesmer

I appreciate the feed back and my build is heavily towards the tank. I just do not see the warrior being in that role to any class. Sucks back that we have so many counters toward us but none in return. I have to play flawless to be competitive but most other classes can be sloppy as crap and still whoop me.

Envetro.4308:

Hey Carbun

See ya

ps

L2P

Pss

Yes I’m a thief lol

Thanks boss. Come see me in a balanced game. I’ll be waiting.

Carbun

Kirrund.2654:

Make some friends. Run with a group.

lfg for a thief, lvl80 only.

Lol I’m just giving you crap Carbun… Don’t worry with the amount of of qq on these forums the thief will be nerf into the ground sooner or later. So take a break and come back all is good no sub fee anyways.

I’m amazed at the damage even low level thieves can dish out …. something gotta give soon.

I play a thief as my main and anyone who says the stealth/backstab builds are balanced are just wrong. Stealth should have never been in the game in an offensive capacity, it is far too hard to balance. The thief class already has the initiative mechanic that is hard to balance and throwing stealth on top of that just makes it exponentially harder.

Even if they wanted to take time for a complete rework or an actual fix for rendering it properly they need a bandaid fix in the meantime. Make revealed last 3 seconds longer, make it apply on any stealth. Increase the thiefs base health to compensate for the survivability lost. Make damaging a stealthed thief break stealth. Lower backstabs damage. Just something to bring stealth back into line with other classes damage/survivability.

I’m really not about the qq and I really do appreciate the feedback immensely. I’m a simple kitten dude really. Give me the ability to face any body 1 v 1 and i’ll figure out the rest eventually. I spent one night in this game going 0 – 19 cuz my dumb kitten did not re-trait my abilities. I’m good with that all day and twice on Sundays. One thing I ask is to not take away my ability to have a chance to beat some one 1 v 1.

I came from the world of FPS so when i lose I just got outplayed and when I won it’s cause my aim was on point and i strafed like a boss. That simple.

Why can we not have this balance in MMO’s?

when people call for balance, often what they want is a helping hand. i’m really struggling to see where the whole op thief thing is. for the record, i don’t pvp with a thief. i use an ele or necro. they should be carving me up. but the only guy who made me feel like a noob was a warrior…

edit: i’m with the thief. l2p.

Dude retracted his statement but cool. I’ll L2P a new game. Come see me in that game Nysta and if you get me and it’s balanced I’ll give it upto you. Until then the L2P comment is old man. Please come up with a new PC dis as L2P is worn out man.

Thanks,

Carbun

Warriors are crap for PvP anyway, if you wanna kill the thief, you gotta make sure you immobilize him somehow. Use Whirlwind or whatever it is called when he stealths, stomp, bullrush for KD > Frenzy > HB. If he’s glass cannon, he’ll be dead before HB even finishes.

I play a thief in WvW, I love their game style and sometimes I do feel like a total menace when I explode someone before they can turn off auto-run. But I have been destroyed bad by a number of guardians and warriors, usually because they are Tank+power. Not to mention Mesmers screw me over all the time by knocking me out of SR before I get my stealth. My advice, if you see damage come up from nowhere, dodge roll right away to possibly avoid cloak’ndagger, then start swinging that melee like crazy and use CC.

But honestly, even if they totally nerfed daggers/backstab, it would be fine with me. I only use D/D when I roam by myself or a small number, otherwise its shortbow all the way.

BTW should work on that temper man, balancing takes time, my main is a ranger, so trust me, I know.

Kysin.6349:

I play a thief in WvW, I love their game style and sometimes I do feel like a total menace when I explode someone before they can turn off auto-run. But I have been destroyed bad by a number of guardians and warriors, usually because they are Tank+power. Not to mention Mesmers screw me over all the time by knocking me out of SR before I get my stealth. My advice, if you see damage come up from nowhere, dodge roll right away to possibly avoid cloak’ndagger, then start swinging that melee like crazy and use CC.

But honestly, even if they totally nerfed daggers/backstab, it would be fine with me. I only use D/D when I roam by myself or a small number, otherwise its shortbow all the way.

Yo Ky, Preciate the feedback and I run a completely balanced spec and there is no running away when the theif apparently had unlimited vanishes. I’ve ran a rogue before and they most they had was two. Even then it felt a little OP.

Thanks,

Carbun

jaegerx.1693:

Carbun.5428:

Anet – you lazy kitten good for nothing devs have allowed one class to have a distinct advantage over the rest and you just made a die hard fan boy quit.

Thanks,

Carbun

Still posting 1 hour later. When were you gonna quit?

This is my thread so I’m obligated to finish it. Preciate the feedback.

Carbun

I play a dual axe warrior and have 0 problems with thieves. I have yet to be owned by one. In fact they are one of my easier kills. Most thieves are so easy to guess what they are about to do. Just to prove my point heres a tip…

Most thieves que up cloak and dagger because it has a long animation time. Right after they que it up they steal to the target. So in 1 gcd your taking steal dmg,cloak and dagger dmg and most likely a backstab soon after. Then they use dagger storm and then the axe they just stole from you.

So now you know their rotation and can plan accordingly.

Not enough? heres what I do. The second a thief steals in on me I ignore pain, go into whirlwind and right into eviscerate. Why eviscerate? because of auto targeting. It will almost aways target the thief even in stealth. After evis, I dodge roll once turn 180 and auto attack the air. This has worked in every fight and Ive never lost.

Dont run axes you say? Hmm guess that GS isnt the best thing since sliced bread now is it.

oh btw all of the above boils down to.. L2P

Ruien.9506:

I play a dual axe warrior and have 0 problems with thieves. I have yet to be owned by one. In fact they are one of my easier kills. Most thieves are so easy to guess what they are about to do. Just to prove my point heres a tip…

Most thieves que up cloak and dagger because it has a long animation time. Right after they que it up they steal to the target. So in 1 gcd your taking steal dmg,cloak and dagger dmg and most likely a backstab soon after. Then they use dagger storm and then the axe they just stole from you.

So now you know their rotation and can plan accordingly.

Not enough? heres what I do. The second a thief steals in on me I ignore pain, go into whirlwind and right into eviscerate. Why eviscerate? because of auto targeting. It will almost aways target the thief even in stealth. After evis, I dodge roll once turn 180 and auto attack the air. This has worked in every fight and Ive never lost.

Dont run axes you say? Hmm guess that GS isnt the best thing since sliced bread now is it.

Hey Ruien, Never been a GS noob or ran axes. I tried both but they didn’t fit for me so I’m Hammer/Rifle. I appreciate the advice with the bass ackwards slap in da face. Have a good one.

Carbun

Soo your playing a combo that is about the worst you can have VS a thief and you come here to ask for a thief nerf and to complain. The problem is you, not the game.

Hey Ruien, Please explain the advantages/disadvantages of double axe vs Hammer vs Thief. I do not claim to know it all but may be with your superior insight I can learn how to beat these kittens.

Thanks,

Carbun

I’ll give you this. Hammer playstyle is about control and with a mutha kittena you can’t see control does dick. That being what it is I’d give you the upper hand with axes right off the bat.

I lost twice to 2 different people so that class must be OP and I demand them to be nerfed or I quit!

Everyone friend Carbun.5428 in game and lets see how long he quits.

Well the advantage of dual axe I have already explained. The problem with your weapon choice is you have no AE to combat the thief’s stealth. Thieves can still be hit in stealth. They aren’t immune to dmg. You just have to correctly judge where the thief is going to be. Hammer is hands down the worst dps weapon a warrior has and no real AE. You also need a steady target to maximize the hammers CC in most circumstances. The rifle is a no brainer why it VS a thief is bad.

Like I said, i gave you the most likely rotation of skills the thief is going to do. Your weapon choice is your weakness. Want a weapon combo that totally wrecks any thief? Mace and shield. A kitten monkey can beat a thief with those.

Psst shield block with the reflect projectile skill VS a thief using dagger storm = dead thief. Thats if he even makes it out of the 2 stuns your just about to land on em.

Oh and a side thought. Warriors are the very LAST class that needs to be asking for nerfs to any other class. You would do well to duck your head and hope to god some dev doesn’t actually look up and noticed how good we are in every aspect of the game.

lol, you won’t be missed!

Not like Hundred Blades wreck face or anything…

i laughed when you said you’d be leaving for swtor. if you’re gonna quit for something else, at least go for something better

i can’t believe people played, or still play that pile of garbage

Distaste.4801:

I play a thief as my main and anyone who says the stealth/backstab builds are balanced are just wrong. Stealth should have never been in the game in an offensive capacity, it is far too hard to balance. The thief class already has the initiative mechanic that is hard to balance and throwing stealth on top of that just makes it exponentially harder.

Even if they wanted to take time for a complete rework or an actual fix for rendering it properly they need a bandaid fix in the meantime. Make revealed last 3 seconds longer, make it apply on any stealth. Increase the thiefs base health to compensate for the survivability lost. Make damaging a stealthed thief break stealth. Lower backstabs damage. Just something to bring stealth back into line with other classes damage/survivability.

Thank You! I question the rationale for adding stealth in a game without any direct/indirect counters, especially if that game is striving for e-sports. Unfortunately, the majority of players (who I assume play thief) love to use the l2p argument and say aoe counters stealth. Well no, no it doesn’t, going around using aoe on random locations with the hope of hitting something is the worst counter I have ever heard of.

I read the thread and this is exactly the same stereotypical whining every MMO has to go through because of a certain type.

Keep it up all you want but the majority of us see past your transparent complaining through to your ulterior motive. The only things it can lead to is everyone ignoring the certain ‘type’ or everything being nerfed into oblivion.

I honestly think there is a problem with thief but I’m probably going to be labeled “whiner” etc because I do not run a thief. I play a staff necromancer in WvW which is great for supporting allies.

I’ve 24k hp and 2200 armor so I may not be the toughest necromancer around. However I still feel something is wrong when following happens:

I get scorpion wired off the wall and a single thief does 22k hp damage the moment I’m off the wall putting me instantly into downed state when I hit the ground. Now I’m fine with being pulled down and I’m fine with thief beating me in prolonged fight. I knew I was dead the moment I was pulled in middle of the horde of enemies. What I’m not fine with is a single player being able to instantly do 22k hp damage. I’m not saying they did this with a single skill. I’m saying that it literally took them less time to shred 22k hp than it took me to realize I was pulled down.

Thieves can also do pretty much everything. I drop enemy into downed state and a thief pops in dropping shadow refuge. An excellent gameplay mechanic and something I have nothing against.

However the moment after that thief pops out of shadow refuge, goes after ally, drops them in seconds, and then starts spinning around throwing daggers aka dagger storm. Now dagger storm itself is fine. What I’ve a problem with is that I’m not sure which trait/skill thiefs combine it with but it cannot be interrupted. I lay down a fear patch which by all logic should interrupt the spinning but nothing happens. After dagger storm ends they pop stealth and/or shadow step away.

I guess people start seeing my point: thieves have excellent utility, and the way how they can stealth and shadow step and have high mobility makes them basically unkillable unless multiple foes focus on them and even then it’s nearly impossible to catch a good thief, and on top of that they have massive damage. That is a problem.

LOL.

Seriously man, seriously? You’re going to QQ about the Thief class because YOU need to learn to play, then ragequit and think that we’re all going to give a flying kitten?

Good riddance to bad players, makes PvP more enjoyable for those of us who find it boring to constantly faceroll you scrubs.

I agree thieves are strong on killing players in wvwvw, but only are useful for ganking, They’re useless when it comes to the seizing of towers and keeps, as a warrior you’re hella god at that, nice ranged attacks with decent damage, strong melee for when it gets up close you’re like a walking talking zerg cannon. Have you considered not playing this like it’s spvp and tried to do it more like wvwvw?

As a side note I’m a bunker ranger, as a class we’re the thieves favourite target, I die from them alot, most likely more than any class when I’m solo’ing or going from one place to another. In a group of 2 though we can burn through a thief so quick, the trick with thieves is to use control, if you’re fighting an invisi-thief, they do mediocre damage and live on clock n’ dagger. Use stuns, cripples make them burn through their other invis moves and just stomp them when it’s all on cd

if you quit don’t go back to SWTOR.. it’s bad, just bad.

At least this game has a world that is worth exploring, and not only populated by static clone copycats all over… don;t even get me started on SWTOR,

But I do agree that the thief stealth + rendering issues + front loaded damage is a major issue.

Carbun.5428:

Seren.6850:

My main is a warrior also but play as a tank, paper rock scissors. Sadly thieves are the paper to everyones rock. I mostly mesmer now though. thieves avoid me like the plague on mesmer

I appreciate the feed back and my build is heavily towards the tank. I just do not see the warrior being in that role to any class. Sucks back that we have so many counters toward us but none in return. I have to play flawless to be competitive but most other classes can be sloppy as crap and still whoop me.

I’d like you to provide info on just how much of a tank your build is please:

1. traits
2. stats
3. gear
4. runes etc.

Currently I run my own version of a bunker spec warrior with shout heals and have little to no problem surviving thieves or any class for that matter in a 1v1 or group scenario.

Once you approach 30k hps and learn to use a shield/dodge roll properly it turns into a game of attrition and I can assure you a well played bunker warrior is a force to be reckoned with.

Cottonmouth ^^^

I have a lvl80 thief also and when i backstab a warrior or guardian and it only does 2k or less.. I RUN AWAY!!! There no way i will win.

so, you play with a “tank” mindset in a game which doesn’t effectively have a “tank”. you keep your back to the thief to let him get his max burst dmg on you. you haven’t thought about the weapon options you have available. it doesn’t sound like you run/dodge. but you think you “know your class”. no offence, guy, but your offer to meet us all in a “balanced” game says a lot.

seriously, guy. thieves have some mighty nice burst. but show me a game where a rogue-style doesn’t have mighty fine burst. but it’s often positional. and you can’t even say thieves are perma-stealthed.

sure, they can pop a few stealths now and then. but it’s not permanent. you can counter it a lot easier in gw2 than most games.

your challenge to me was a bit moot as i play a necro/ele. not a thief. not sure what you were getting at there, but as someone who’s greatly enjoyed pvp in many mmos, i’m confidant enough to say while i don’t kill everything alive, i’m happy enough with my ability and don’t see the thief as a particularly op class.

actually, given it’s pretty hard to take a defended keep without an ele or two, i’d say we’re worse.

warriors have some great survivability. i find it difficult to believe every thief you come across destroys you unless you turn your back on him/her and spend too much time thinking about which button to press. i’m not fond of the l2p thing. it sounds to insulting, but really. this thief gripe thing really deserves it.

I play a dagger/pistol thief and I get destroyed on a regular basis, but that’s just because I suck.

<3 my guardian and it can handle all professions.

Sadly invisi rendering thiefs are just boring.

If they catch me off guard they will no doubt pride themselves on how ‘l33t’ they are. Usually tho it turns into a scrappy affair. They attempt to take me down without luck and once they realise this they ‘invisi render combo’ run off to find something squishy so they can feel ‘l33t’ again.

Wash repeat

I don’t believe thief can be balanced with nerfs. The class needs a complete revamp, even more than mesmer. A resource (init in this cases) based class has no place in GW2 where everything else is c/d based. And the current set of abilities is broken beyond repair.

I use a shout heal build warrior with Mace + Shield and Hammer/Greatsword (hammer in zergs, greatsword in small groups/solo). I’ve yet to see a thief give me enough trouble to be notable. What brandon said earlier about running from players when they BS for 3k seems true — I find a lot of thieves run away shortly after the battle starts. A lot of the ones that stay get tangled up in that OP mess of hundred blades. If they jump me with my hammer out it’s going to be one long game of attrition and that’s usually when I end up losing.

This sounds completely like you have a learn-to-play problem to me. Have fun in SWTOR!

Carbun.5428:

Just got owned by a thief after this particular thief wrecked another dude. I officially quit this piece of kitten game.

Anet – you lazy kitten good for nothing devs have allowed one class to have a distinct advantage over the rest and you just made a die hard fan boy quit.

Wow.

I get an infraction for angrily stating that I can’t stand hackers and cheaters, and this guy curses the game and the devs but still has the post up.

The moderating of these forums is pretty dubious.

- H

I agree with the OP, in that thieves deserve a nerf. What bothers me isn’t the high burst damage – it’s the combination of high burst damage, high survability from being the best profession at running away, the quick renewal of said burst damage due to Initiative, and the lack of counters to stealth.

A typical fight against a thief, for me, goes like this:

• A thief hits me from stealth with some kind of control move, following by burst damage. I reply with some kind of stun removal, which then goes into a long cooldown, and some kind of defensive skill, which also goes into a long cooldown, and proceed to hit the thief.

• The thief, seeing that he’s not going to easily beat me, uses stealth to run away. Now, any half decent thief doesn’t just run away by turning in 180 degrees and running in a straigth line away from the current position, so I don’t know where they are going – and even if I were lucky and hit they once, they would still be under stealth so I wouldn’t even know it.

• The thief waits a few seconds, for his initiative to recharge, and then comes back. Since my stun breaker and defensive skills are still under recharge, and I couldn’t prevent him from running away, he kills me.

The good news to the OP is that an ArenaNet developer already said thieves are going to be nerfed (see the Thief forum). This will likely happen on the November 15th build, so just wait a bit.

I’m not sure the nerf will be a proper nerf, though. More than anything else, stealth needs to be nerfed so it has a counter, instead of allowing a thief to run away with impunity and return whenever he wants.

Erasculio.2914:

A thief hits me from stealth with some kind of control move, following by burst damage.

Thief doesn’t need any control moves for 1v1. BS+HS or CnD+Steal will eat 90% HP of any glasscannon DPS built character. This is pretty much instant and will be followed by HS spam. Since HS is ranged, it doesn’t matter how you respond. You’re already dead.

i play a con spec thf and i roam solo do not do 10k hits like the glass c thfs but because i know there play style i am able to own that kind of thf i had a 1v3 glass thf fight yesterday and guess what i won, so easy to kill and omg so predictable, yes i agree that backstab needs a nerf as to much dmg for 1 burst with no cd it is op but useless vs someone who knows how to fight vs one and makes them a wasted spec. i hope they sort out the stealth problem soon as i have had enough of winning duels and fights in wvw and getting not respect for it when i have masted each classes ability learn counter attacks and really try hard with out abusing the render stealth.

The kind of Thief people moan about has:

~12k Hp
~900 Toughness

People don’t have reaction times it seems. I recently tried out the whole back-stab Thief thing on my level 80 (got full exotic Berserker’s and all the accessories etc) and honestly, if someone uses that dodge roll it screws the whole thing over. You can see instantly if they hit steal on you because of the damage.

Now: If they use steal from stealth, they cannot backstab for 3.3 seconds. On 12k hp and 900 toughness you can kill them.

If they use steal, CnD and then backstab, you should easily be able to dodge backstab. CnD is a 3 second stealth. You KNOW absolutely they will try to land a backstab. You know this. So.

Guardian: Use a shield and knock them back. Backstab useless. Or press the nice free aegis button. Kind of ruins a backstab combo rotation. As you can have an aegis up at the start, steal does nothing, then you hit it again after CnD and you’ve been hit by only CnD. Easiest class ever to stop a backstab combo. Sword 2 for blind. Focus 5 to block attacks. Use hold the line for protection. Renewed focus elite.

Warrior: The second they use steal you could use that utility stomp, utility invulnerability (really when better to use this in a 1v1 than when you’re about to suffer the biggest blow of the fight), they’ll unstealth, have achieved nothing and you can slap their measly 12k hp down the gutter. You can whirwind away. You can roll and use hammer 4. You can block with mace 3. You can AoE shout fear them. You can use offhand sword 4 to riposte. You can use shield stance. If that isn’t enough ways to deal with a backstab rotation I don’t know what is.

Engineer. Use shield 4 to push them back. If you are fast you could roll and net shot them. Or rifle 4. You can blind with bombs/grenades. You can use rocket boots. You can use slick shoes. You can use mines. You can use flamethrower 5 for blind. You can use flame turret for blind. You can use the elixer gun move that makes you jump to dodge. You can drop a supply crate on their head. You can use glue skills (pistol 5, bomb 5 to slow them). You can chill (grenade 4).

Elementalist. Mist form. Fire staff 4 (burning retreat). Water staff 4 for chill. Air staff 5 for stun. Earth staff 4 for cripple. If fast, dodge and sceptre air 3 for blind. Or earth sceptre 3 for the same thing. And earth sceptre 2 to mitigate damage if you are hit. Dagger fire 3 to get away. Dagger air 4 to get away. If you run into them with air 4, use air 5 for interrupt. Dagger water 3 after steal and they’ll miss backstab. If fast, dagger earth 4 for interrupt. Focus earth 5 for invulnerability. Arcane shield to block the next 3 attacks. Lightning flash to get away. If you have conjure earth shield ready, use skill 5 for invuln. Flame axe burning retreat. Lightning hammer 5 for stun.

Can’t even be bothered to go on. There’s such a huge amount of things you can do. It’s funny, some people manage to consistently dodge it whereas others just stand there and unsurprisingly die. I had a battle with another backstab Thief in WvW at rogues last night, congratulated him as he won after us BOTH being in downed state and it coming down to one of us throwing one more downed ability 1 than the other one. That fight lasted quite a long time, because we both dodged and used our abilities to deny the other landing a full rotation. We both even used death blossom to get out of a sticky spot knowing that lost initiative was better than dead.

If you can’t do something in the time it takes to steal, cnd and backstab you have really poor reactions and should never complain about balance based on your own anecdotal evidence.

thief=OP
nuf said

kranz.9546:

thief=OP
nuf said

Oh blast I knew there was a solid, well thought out counter argument.
Can people at least try to reason as to why they think what they do? And when you post damage, ESPECIALLY in WvW, tell us your build and your equipment and your level.

just get rid of backstab and the 5th dagger stealth done no more 10k hits and spamable stealth’s

Katsumoto.9452:

Elementalist. Mist form.

And the thief will run away using stealth, then return while Mist Form is still under recharge with Basilisk Venom to prevent everything else.

yeah thfs would do that to omg we should defo take away that abilty, if there is anything else we could use to counter someone doing something in a duel plz say now why we are nerfing!! as we defo do not wish for thfs to have anything left but 1 melee attack

While the upcoming thief nerf might help with the burst, the issue largely is rendering. Until rendering is fixed, so called glass cannon builds, have a built in buffer of survivability that they shouldn’t have. This is a game wide problem, thieves just gain more benefit from it.

As Ruien indicated axe warriors are a beast, I have even run into a couple GS warriors that seem to take the weapon to a different level then the vast majority. Typically I find hammer warriors easy as the attacks are pretty slow, but every once in awhile you get someone that also takes it to that next level of play. Warriors seems fine to me as a thief, just far, far to many GS flailers in the ranks due to its low skill cap. Same as heartseeker with thieves.

Losing is a part of learning. You seem to think you are master of all and the game is entirely at fault for being owned, let’s assume you are correct. How often is this kind of death happening? I will assume that like myself it happens rarely. Being insta gibbed either by a thief or 100b, most often because I screwed up, doesn’t ruin the 1000 fights I have before the next time it happens.