Guild Wars 2

Video: http://vimeo.com/52977465

Reddit Thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12ruhs/thief_proof_of_concept_permanent_stealth/
(the poster actually found an EASIER way to perma-stealth after posting the video)

So, a couple of these thieves can basically guard a camp from being taken for god knows how long, not to mention a team of them could be sitting in a tower/keep after you take it and you wouldn’t even know until after they ninja it back.

I may have to roll a thief for the kittenngiggles

This was happening on HoD all last night. We tried stacking, random Aoe’s heck just spacing out and hoping he would hit one of us. I hate perma stealth in this game because it allows 1 player to hold off against 5+ with no problem of taking a camp.

I gave up caring that thieves have the high burst, mobility and ill never be able to keep one fighting me on my necro to kill them. Heck ive stopped even trying out armor sets and weapon stats and just resigned myself to Toughness, vit and power on armor since it allows me to take the backstab and combos when i dont have a stun breaker or i miss a dodge. Just make it so I can at least see this player for more then a split second because for now it gives thieves extremely high burst, ability to engage and dis engage combat when they think they might lose. The most annoying class in the game because its low risk and high reward for them.

They can hold a castle if there’s no necro with staff traits in the zerg or enough rangers with traps.
Ok. Now I’m not helping any thieves in my team anymore, k this class.

Maybe I should update my signature…

easy fix for this would be the leap finisher that thief use must have a target to do so. wondering if anet will do this.

this is one example of how thief stop a zerg capturing a camp. the other scenario is the backstab combined with rending problem, which makes the other team unable to target you.

the only way to fix this is when you are in stealth state you can’t cap or stop the other teams to cap the object, without rewriting the whole engine.

The thief, in general, is my biggest issue with Guild Wars 2. It’s ridiculous and crap like this should not happen, no matter what.

ESPECIALLY (but not just) because such a stupid mechanic gets even worse in mass pvp situations, whereas thieves can easily kill players without pretty much ever becoming visible thanks to lag juggling.

If it comforts you, ANet reportedly has found a fix to the culling issue, and will implement it by the next patch.

Iohanna.4863:

If it comforts you, ANet reportedly has found a fix to the culling issue, and will implement it by the next patch.

We’ve seen that before….I won’t hold my breath for the fix.

The whole invisibility in this game is going to drive me to quit GW2 soon enough. It shouldn’t be so easy to push the “Oh sheeet” button and cancel out the battle.

Seems like engineers, thieves, mesmers and eles can all do that. Why not give it to every class then and make it fair.

Make it so you can’t contest a point while in stealth (it’s already like this in sPvP). Problem solved.

I am guessing all of you hated rogues in World of Warcraft too, didn’t you?

Listen, stealth IS the main feature of a thief. If you were to take that away from them, they are just a really weak warrior with tiny little swords. Would you like your clones taken away from you? Grenade spam? Hundred blades? You see what I am saying here? Every class has their signature moves/mechanics, and though you might not like or agree with them, that doesn’t mean ANet should hold your hand and remove it from the game.

That being said, the culling issues in the game right now certainly are making this a bigger deal. How about you calm down, put your pitch forks away, and wait until the November 15th fix.

Despite the fact that he remains invisible, he isn’t really doing anything worthwhile. If your whole team is stupid enough to sit on that spot and do nothing else, it appears to me that the thief has a working tactic and has outsmarted you. Leave 2-3 people there and the rest move on, come on guys. It isn’t that hard.

Never played WoW, never will.

Seems like thieves having too many so called “main features”: Initiative, Steal and Stealth. Aren’t we fancy? And there’s no other class who can do its main thing endlessly.

Oh, and about “really weak warrior with tiny little swords” part. Really weak warrior with 10k damage per hit, yay.

Halo.8976:

Never played WoW, never will.

Seems like thieves having too many so called “main features”: Initiative, Steal and Stealth. Aren’t we fancy? And there’s no other class who can do its main thing endlessly.

Oh, and about “really weak warrior with tiny little swords” part. Really weak warrior with 10k damage per hit, yay.

Initiative is one of your arguments? So, because we as a class have a LIMITED RESOURCE that we have to work within, when ALL OTHER CLASSES can spam their moves anytime they are off cooldown, that is a good feature for us? Come on.

Steal is on a 45 second cooldown. Unless you are stealing from a necro and using fear, it is fairly useless – its just another shadowstep/gap closer – just like a guardian’s judgement etc.

Stealth is our main feature, yes. And to argue about the ‘10k damage per hit’ part – you are ignorant. ONLY GLASS CANON BUILDS THAT WILL DIE WHEN FOCUS FIRED can do this. If you take away stealth, THERE IS NO BACKSTAB. So then we have a ton of little 600ish damage hits with our daggers. What would you like to do to buff us then? Because I would wager that no matter what us thieves get, the community will find a way to complain.

Funny to see people compare grenade spam with permanent invisibility. Really?

Krosan.2890:

Funny to see people compare grenade spam with permanent invisibility. Really?

I am not comparing to it, please reread my statements and see that I stated it is a class specific ability/signature ability.

Osskil.1029:

Krosan.2890:

Funny to see people compare grenade spam with permanent invisibility. Really?

I am not comparing to it, please reread my statements and see that I stated it is a class specific ability/signature ability.

How can you possibly think PERMANENT invisibility should be a class specific signature? It outclasses every other “signature” you mention by miles.

Krosan.2890:

Osskil.1029:

Krosan.2890:

Funny to see people compare grenade spam with permanent invisibility. Really?

I am not comparing to it, please reread my statements and see that I stated it is a class specific ability/signature ability.

How can you possibly think PERMANENT invisibility should be a class specific signature? It outclasses every other “signature” you mention by miles.

What exactly is the thief achieving while being permanently stealthed? Again, I am not stating that I agree with the mechanic, and I have previously stated that I think that the culling issue makes it much worse. However, permanent stealth was real in WoW and it worked perfectly fine. I think there is an influx of soft players that don’t like having to actively pay attention to their game and are surprised when PVP gets in the way of their door fighting.

These people complaining would have never survived in real PvP/PK environments like UO.

Additionally, this kind of perma-stealth is easily countered by following the smoke trail and standing in the Smoke Field.

More than half of all thieves are using only 3 or so skills with some signet and steal. Your class is not required to use more because it can do so much with so little. It’s just like giving warriors spam their sword dance thing 3 times in a row.

Steal. Yes, the stolen necro’s skill is that pissing me off. It’s really annoying that “master of fear” can fear his targets only for 1.5 seconds (0.5 from a trait), when thieves can do it for 3.

Why should I care? I don’t like your class anyway. Play necro and then talk with me about fairness.

Osskil.1029:

Initiative is one of your arguments? So, because we as a class have a LIMITED RESOURCE that we have to work within, when ALL OTHER CLASSES can spam their moves anytime they are off cooldown, that is a good feature for us? Come on.

Something wrong here…

I can kill the majority of thieves I fight, but they are by far the most difficult profession for me to overcome. We all know they are OP at the moment, whether it is due to culling or profession mechanics, doesn’t matter. If the fix rumored above does fix this problem, then great, if not, back to the forums.

Also, my Ele will accept perma-mist form, my Guardian will accept perma-aegis, and my ranger will continue to suck in the meantime to keep things balanced.

Reyka.8965:

Osskil.1029:

Initiative is one of your arguments? So, because we as a class have a LIMITED RESOURCE that we have to work within, when ALL OTHER CLASSES can spam their moves anytime they are off cooldown, that is a good feature for us? Come on.

Something wrong here…

How so? That’s how all the classes work. It isn’t like initiate magically replenishes itself – it takes time to come back. We can’t help the thieves that spam heartseeker over and over – they make us look bad sure.

Not all of us are backstab/glass canon builds either. I run a toughness/condition build and I don’t abuse stealth. Stop with sweeping generalizations everybody!

Gisei.5749:

Also, my Ele will accept perma-mist form, my Guardian will accept perma-aegis, and my ranger will continue to suck in the meantime to keep things balanced.

^
I’d like to have perma-Death Shroud for my necro and limitless number of illusions for my mesmer.

Halo.8976:

Gisei.5749:

Also, my Ele will accept perma-mist form, my Guardian will accept perma-aegis, and my ranger will continue to suck in the meantime to keep things balanced.

^
I’d like to have perma-Death Shroud for my necro and limitless number of illusions for my mesmer.

Again, this is when you don’t understand the mechanics. If we hit you, it breaks stealth. Mist form can’t attack anyone. Perma-aegis would be bad because you can then hit and never be hurt. Death shroud permanence would be unfair because of the massive health pool and additional damage. More illusions for the mesmer would be unfair because there would be no way to counter it. You guys are really reaching here.

Understand it, once again. THIEVES CAN’T DO DAMAGE WHILE PERMANENTLY STEALTHED, OR IT BREAKS THEIR STEALTH.

Osskil.1029:

Reyka.8965:

Osskil.1029:

Initiative is one of your arguments? So, because we as a class have a LIMITED RESOURCE that we have to work within, when ALL OTHER CLASSES can spam their moves anytime they are off cooldown, that is a good feature for us? Come on.

Something wrong here…

How so? That’s how all the classes work. It isn’t like initiate magically replenishes itself – it takes time to come back. We can’t help the thieves that spam heartseeker over and over – they make us look bad sure.

Not all of us are backstab/glass canon builds either. I run a toughness/condition build and I don’t abuse stealth. Stop with sweeping generalizations everybody!

I guess I’ll explain.

Initiative and Cooldowns are basically the same thing, just a different skin. Don’t act like one is vastly inferior to the other.

And to cover the bold part, there is no spamming skills while they are off cooldown. Cooldowns are initiative. If our skills are off cooldown, we can use a bunch at once. If a thief has full initiative, he can use a bunch at once. Same thing.

Osskil.1029:

Halo.8976:

Gisei.5749:

Also, my Ele will accept perma-mist form, my Guardian will accept perma-aegis, and my ranger will continue to suck in the meantime to keep things balanced.

^
I’d like to have perma-Death Shroud for my necro and limitless number of illusions for my mesmer.

Again, this is when you don’t understand the mechanics. If we hit you, it breaks stealth. Mist form can’t attack anyone. Perma-aegis would be bad because you can then hit and never be hurt. Death shroud permanence would be unfair because of the massive health pool and additional damage. More illusions for the mesmer would be unfair because there would be no way to counter it. You guys are really reaching here.

Understand it, once again. THIEVES CAN’T DO DAMAGE WHILE PERMANENTLY STEALTHED, OR IT BREAKS THEIR STEALTH.

Sarcasm. It’s an art. Apparently, a tough one at that.

Gisei.5749:

Osskil.1029:

Reyka.8965:

Osskil.1029:

Initiative is one of your arguments? So, because we as a class have a LIMITED RESOURCE that we have to work within, when ALL OTHER CLASSES can spam their moves anytime they are off cooldown, that is a good feature for us? Come on.

Something wrong here…

How so? That’s how all the classes work. It isn’t like initiate magically replenishes itself – it takes time to come back. We can’t help the thieves that spam heartseeker over and over – they make us look bad sure.

Not all of us are backstab/glass canon builds either. I run a toughness/condition build and I don’t abuse stealth. Stop with sweeping generalizations everybody!

I guess I’ll explain.

Initiative and Cooldowns are basically the same thing, just a different skin. Don’t act like one is vastly inferior to the other.

And to cover the bold part, there is no spamming skills while they are off cooldown. Cooldowns are initiative. If our skills are off cooldown, we can use a bunch at once. If a thief has full initiative, he can use a bunch at once. Same thing.

“a bunch” being either 3-4 heartseekers (bad thieves spam this), one cloak and dagger, or maybe two death blossoms. Its not like we can spam the skills over and over. By the time you make it through your full rotation, we have made it through our initiative moves. The difference is that while as long as your skill isn’t on cooldown, you can use it – but if we don’t have the initiative because we chose a different skill in a situational sense, we can’t use it.

Gisei.5749:

Osskil.1029:

Reyka.8965:

Osskil.1029:

Initiative is one of your arguments? So, because we as a class have a LIMITED RESOURCE that we have to work within, when ALL OTHER CLASSES can spam their moves anytime they are off cooldown, that is a good feature for us? Come on.

Something wrong here…

How so? That’s how all the classes work. It isn’t like initiate magically replenishes itself – it takes time to come back. We can’t help the thieves that spam heartseeker over and over – they make us look bad sure.

Not all of us are backstab/glass canon builds either. I run a toughness/condition build and I don’t abuse stealth. Stop with sweeping generalizations everybody!

I guess I’ll explain.

Initiative and Cooldowns are basically the same thing, just a different skin. Don’t act like one is vastly inferior to the other.

And to cover the bold part, there is no spamming skills while they are off cooldown. Cooldowns are initiative. If our skills are off cooldown, we can use a bunch at once. If a thief has full initiative, he can use a bunch at once. Same thing.

Osskil.1029:

Halo.8976:

Gisei.5749:

Also, my Ele will accept perma-mist form, my Guardian will accept perma-aegis, and my ranger will continue to suck in the meantime to keep things balanced.

^
I’d like to have perma-Death Shroud for my necro and limitless number of illusions for my mesmer.

Again, this is when you don’t understand the mechanics. If we hit you, it breaks stealth. Mist form can’t attack anyone. Perma-aegis would be bad because you can then hit and never be hurt. Death shroud permanence would be unfair because of the massive health pool and additional damage. More illusions for the mesmer would be unfair because there would be no way to counter it. You guys are really reaching here.

Understand it, once again. THIEVES CAN’T DO DAMAGE WHILE PERMANENTLY STEALTHED, OR IT BREAKS THEIR STEALTH.

Sarcasm. It’s an art. Apparently, a tough one at that.

No, I understand that it is sarcasm, so don’t try to chastise me. I am simply stating that none of you have any real arguments that hold any value right now other than “that’s not fair I want that too!” If you want stealth, give me grenade spam, heavy armor, clones, etc.

I’ve lost track. Mind summarizing all your valid points as to why perma-stealth is a fair and legit class mechanic?

Seems like engineers, thieves, mesmers and eles can all do that. Why not give it to every class then and make it fair.

Elementalists cannot stealth. They can, however, be targeted and bound even while in mist form, which is something that should be considered a bug since mist form is supposed to provide invulnerability during its duration. In any case, perma stealth and what eles and mesmers and engineers can do are in no way comparable.

Gisei.5749:

I’ve lost track. Mind summarizing all your valid points as to why perma-stealth is a fair and legit class mechanic?

I haven’t stated that perma-stealth is a great mechanic at all. And this thread has seemed to steer away from the perma-stealth discussion altogether and become a ‘complain about stealth’ as a whole thread.

Stealth is a legit class mechanic, that is all there is to it. I personally feel as though there should be a limit to what amount of time you can spend in stealth before getting a debuff that prevents it for an amount of time – lets say 30 seconds tops stealth – I think that would be fair.

Stealth gives thieves the element of surprise, and people don’t like that. But, that is how the class was built, and how ANet intended for it to be played.

there s no counter to this special ability atm.

we can dodge high dmg, or simply kill the pets that other professions have as their main feature. for thieves, atm the counter is to have everybody in the group spam aoe and hope the thieve is standing still.

Osskil.1029:

Understand it, once again. THIEVES CAN’T DO DAMAGE WHILE PERMANENTLY STEALTHED, OR IT BREAKS THEIR STEALTH.

But you can hold zerg of 15-20 at one point for significant amount of time, no?

Gisei.5749:

Initiative and Cooldowns are basically the same thing, just a different skin. Don’t act like one is vastly inferior to the other.

And to cover the bold part, there is no spamming skills while they are off cooldown. Cooldowns are initiative. If our skills are off cooldown, we can use a bunch at once. If a thief has full initiative, he can use a bunch at once. Same thing.

Well, no. Cooldown is when you forced to wait until using same skill again, when Initiative allows you use it over and over again as long as you have enough Initiative for that.

Thieves have a base of 12 initiative, it gives them an ability to use skill #5 twice without waiting.

Yes, they can’t use all their skills at once, but they can use one most expensive one at least twice in a row.

Osskil.1029:

Gisei.5749:

I’ve lost track. Mind summarizing all your valid points as to why perma-stealth is a fair and legit class mechanic?

I haven’t stated that perma-stealth is a great mechanic at all. And this thread has seemed to steer away from the perma-stealth discussion altogether and become a ‘complain about stealth’ as a whole thread.

Stealth is a legit class mechanic, that is all there is to it. I personally feel as though there should be a limit to what amount of time you can spend in stealth before getting a debuff that prevents it for an amount of time – lets say 30 seconds tops stealth – I think that would be fair.

Stealth gives thieves the element of surprise, and people don’t like that. But, that is how the class was built, and how ANet intended for it to be played.

You actually got me to re-read the entire thread. Nowhere in this thread does the topic change from perma-stealth/ThiefOP to complaining about the general stealth mechanic, except when you rise to defend it against no one. If you believe it does, point out the post that does please.

No one here is complaining about stealth. We’re complaining about perma-stealth. Due to culling, even though the thief is technically visible for a short time to himself, the other players do not get that opportunity of visibility.

And one guy wants other classes to have escape skills too.

Stealth classes always cause issue in all games they’re implemented.
For some reason being able to select your targets and have high escape abilities must be accompanied by very high burst. That’s IMO a design flaw that keeps following these games. As if one advantage isn’t enough, it’ll need two.

And on top of this we now see that a thief can perma-stealth basically and keep others from capping a point without actually engaging them….. sheezz.
ANet needs to get their stuff together and actually fix the rendering issues so we can get them to focus on stuff like this.

It should be handled the way many other mmo’s handled it. Perma stealth until you attack then a 10 second or so timer after melee to restealth. Done. You want to attack form the shadows, cool. Once you jump out of them I can see you until you slink back in. Get rid of the stealthing over and over. Maybe give them one get away oh kitten key stealth mechanic so they can hard bail once and be done with it.

Minoru.1237:

Seems like engineers, thieves, mesmers and eles can all do that. Why not give it to every class then and make it fair.

Elementalists cannot stealth. They can, however, be targeted and bound even while in mist form, which is something that should be considered a bug since mist form is supposed to provide invulnerability during its duration. In any case, perma stealth and what eles and mesmers and engineers can do are in no way comparable.

Just this morning an ele chased me down into the BG jumping puzzle vault room. Door closed, no escape. I am a guardian, so it wasn’t big deal to take down an ele in close quarters. Then I see him do the mist thingy and poof he is gone. I waited for 2 minutes and the doors haven’t opened. He went poof and disconnected/ported…. how is that fair?

Add a cast time to thief invisibility and I am fine with the perma stealth, if they have to appear to cast it.

Osskil, after I blow my cool downs, I still have to stand there and take it, I can’t just poof and wait for my initiative to regen back.

WakkaJabba.3910:

there s no counter to this special ability atm.

we can dodge high dmg, or simply kill the pets that other professions have as their main feature. for thieves, atm the counter is to have everybody in the group spam aoe and hope the thieve is standing still.

With Black Powder perma-stealth, just stand in the Smoke Field. If the Thief doesn’t reveal themselves by hitting you, they run out of initiative and you can shred them.

Spamming AOEs should only be used as a deterrent, to protect Thieves from achieving their objectives. You’ll catch many greedy Thieves by spamming AOE over a downed player or a harassed siege equipment. Also remember to revive your downed players; this undoes all the hard work the Thief put into downing that player.

Remember, the Thief is predominantly only a threat to a single target. Sometimes it’s best to just completely ignore them. Trying to kill them is usually inefficient.

This game needs reveal field, something that could hard-counter stealth by preventing its re-application for 30+ seconds.

I am fine with the thief mechanics a long as these two things are part of it…

Cloak and dagger perma invis build seems better to me.

They are two issue with rogue mechanic :
- anti-stealth not appearing between stealth (only if you attack). They should make it happen even out of combat (like they did with ranger pet)
- a class with no cooldown. That’s probably the root of all problem. That’s like WTF, we got a great idea, let’s make a class with no cooldown but energy management. Didn’t they ever realise that powerfull skill would be spammed ? They should at least add cool down on some of the thief weapon skill. You cannot balance without cool down.

This is pretty easy to fix. Stealth needs a Revealed debuff whenever it ends, whether or not you attack. That and it shouldn’t be possible to stop captures whenever stealthed, just like it isn’t in sPvP.

Wanted to comment on this, too:

So, a couple of these thieves can basically guard a camp from being taken for god knows how long, not to mention a team of them could be sitting in a tower/keep after you take it and you wouldn’t even know until after they ninja it back.

I may have to roll a thief for the kittenngiggles

Are you freaking kidding me? Do you understand the amount of effort it would take for a thief group to actually accomplish this? A mesmer can do this with the only effort being that they put their Portal on their utility bar. They don’t sacrifice traits. They don’t sacrifice anything except one utility slot. And guess what? They can also transport their entire team into a base. If you don’t catch them in time, there’s not much you can do except retake it after their zerg takes it.

But of course, a thief is OP for being able to do what Mesmer already can. It also requires thief to be in a large group and be traited for stealth. The mesmer just puts a utility skill on.

If you’re going to try to argue that thief is OP, please come up with better arguments.

I suggested this a while back on another thread:

Increase recloak debuff time.
Remove stealth stacking.

Although this was mainly because of the render bug coupled with stealth i think it still applies.

I consider stealth a support utility mechanic not to be constantly relied on.

And yes, i have a Thief and it’s the character i played the most so far (~437h played).

And no, i don’t randomly QQ being killed by them, if anything i think i have like 50/50 chance of killing or being killed even under the current circumstances when i play on my engineer – although some of them are not very bright.

I’m honest and admit this class paired with stealth and easy to use skills still needs tweaking.

But whatever changes Anet brings to this class, i will still play with the class and against the class regardless.

Oskil.1029 said: “I am guessing all of you hated rogues in World of Warcraft too, didn’t you?
Listen, stealth IS the main feature of a thief. If you were to take that away from them, they are just a really weak warrior with tiny little swords. Would you like your clones taken away from you? Grenade spam? Hundred blades? You see what I am saying here? Every class has their signature moves/mechanics, and though you might not like or agree with them, that doesn’t mean ANet should hold your hand and remove it from the game.
That being said, the culling issues in the game right now certainly are making this a bigger deal. How about you calm down, put your pitch forks away, and wait until the November 15th fix.
Despite the fact that he remains invisible, he isn’t really doing anything worthwhile. If your whole team is stupid enough to sit on that spot and do nothing else, it appears to me that the thief has a working tactic and has outsmarted you. Leave 2-3 people there and the rest move on, come on guys. It isn’t that hard.”

You mention that people hated rogues’ stealth in WoW, however rogues were revealed once they took damage. Thieves in this game aren’t revealed upon being damaged, which means they can simply disappear and run away without anyone finding him through damage or AOE.

There are two damaging effects I think that should reveal stealthed/hidden characters, and this is a pretty logical one: bleeding and burning. Both have a physical effect (bleeding leaves a trail, and burning . . . well, they’re on fire!). Unless the person hiding nulls these two conditions before he stealths/goes invisible, then those two should be able to reveal him.

If ANet has figured out a way to fix culling, this might help out with thieves and the overwhelming stealth advantage.

As for the videomaker. . . . Wasn’t a stealthed person not supposed to count as an opposer to a point being claimed. I don’t see anything from ANet talking about that.

Osskil.1029:

These people complaining would have never survived in real PvP/PK environments like UO.

I’m kinda doubting you were in UO long.

Simple fix, while in stealth remove the ability to cap.

Osskil.1029:

Listen, stealth IS the main feature of a thief. If you were to take that away from them, they are just a really weak warrior with tiny little swords. Would you like your clones taken away from you? Grenade spam? Hundred blades? You see what I am saying here? Every class has their signature moves/mechanics, and though you might not like or agree with them, that doesn’t mean ANet should hold your hand and remove it from the game.

Assassins from GW1 (which the thief is based on btw) did not have stealth and were very good at at taking out players. Additionally, I don’t see how adding stealth to the assassin adds to the strategic depth or complexity of the class. I vote that Anet forgets that they ever created the thief and just bring back the assassin.

epicsmooth.7825:

Osskil.1029:

These people complaining would have never survived in real PvP/PK environments like UO.

I’m kinda doubting you were in UO long.

Too bad that I played pre-UO:Renaissance and continued playing for 5 years. Red and hung out at Buc’s Den, and intentionally griefed whiney players like in this thread.

Waffler.1257:

Osskil.1029:

Listen, stealth IS the main feature of a thief. If you were to take that away from them, they are just a really weak warrior with tiny little swords. Would you like your clones taken away from you? Grenade spam? Hundred blades? You see what I am saying here? Every class has their signature moves/mechanics, and though you might not like or agree with them, that doesn’t mean ANet should hold your hand and remove it from the game.

Assassins from GW1 (which the thief is based on btw) did not have stealth and were very good at at taking out players. Additionally, I don’t see how adding stealth to the assassin adds to the strategic depth or complexity of the class. I vote that Anet forgets that they ever created the thief and just bring back the assassin.

Because change is bad, right? Good thing that ANet isn’t a democracy that takes its votes from users.

Gaming companies will never understand that having a stealth class simply doesn’t work
I do not think I have seen a stealth class that was balanced in any game I played
Perhaps the witch elf in failhammer after they made it so damage broke stealth and dots prevented stealth.
I have certainly seen this alot where thieves could stop a cap, but it is ridiculous and takes away from wvw
If the theif won’t get changed the claiming circles have to become alot smaller

Totally off topic-but can thieves execute/do a finisher under stealth? If so, I think doing one should unveil you.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Totally off topic-but can thieves execute/do a finisher under stealth? If so, I think doing one should unveil you.

Yes, they can, just as a mesmer can, and a elementalist can in mist form, engineer with that shrink elixer, etc.

Osskil.1029:

Waffler.1257:

Osskil.1029:

Listen, stealth IS the main feature of a thief. If you were to take that away from them, they are just a really weak warrior with tiny little swords. Would you like your clones taken away from you? Grenade spam? Hundred blades? You see what I am saying here? Every class has their signature moves/mechanics, and though you might not like or agree with them, that doesn’t mean ANet should hold your hand and remove it from the game.

Assassins from GW1 (which the thief is based on btw) did not have stealth and were very good at at taking out players. Additionally, I don’t see how adding stealth to the assassin adds to the strategic depth or complexity of the class. I vote that Anet forgets that they ever created the thief and just bring back the assassin.

Because change is bad, right? Good thing that ANet isn’t a democracy that takes its votes from users.

Sorry, is this an argument? You said thieves would be useless without stealth and I provided an example to contradict this. Now as far as I can tell your rebuttle is to imply that all change is good no matter what by sarcastically stating that it isn’t. Did you ever play an assassin in GW1? Can you provide examples of why that class design didn’t work? Can you explain how stealth improved the gameplay experience?