Guild Wars 2

reddie.5861:

Xenesis.6389:

reddie.5861:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z91H8Sdk7I

there u go 1 error/lucky interupt and thief is done.
thats what u never see, cus who cares if a thief dies he didnt harm u and what doesnt harm u doesnt need a nerf.

So many things wrong with that short clip. Obviously if you run away from a zerg on foot without using skills you’re going to get run over, you had more than enough time to chain port away and use stealth. Instead you ported once and turned around to face the zerg again while your commander was still running. You don’t have to turn your character around to look behind you, the camera is separate from your movement. Getting interrupted once and then dead to a zerg is not something unique to thieves.

Now you think that’s bad for a thief imagine the other classes getting left behind and don’t have port or stealth to get away, you have both those tools and didn’t bother to use them.

did u even pay attention?

Did you?

1. You were in an outnumbered fight that your commander turned to go back to spawn in full retreat.
2. You started to run and got hit with burn cripple vulnerability.
3. You ported once with infiltrator’s arrow, you still had enough initiative to port again.
4. You could see your commander and zerg in full retreat and was already getting way ahead of you.
5. You then turned around to look at the enemy zerg(why?), your initiative was almost back to full.
6. You turn back around to run and it took you almost 3s before you attempted to port, you get interrupted with unsteady ground.
7. You get back up and another 3s of just running instead of porting and you get interrupted again by guardian line of warding.
8. You get back up with an evade and another 2s of not attempting to port just running.
9. You made the mistake of trying to outrun a zerg in the same direction they were going, to your spawn after your commander with swiftness on.
10. Most other thieves would have hit the panic button in their heads and ran away from the zerg towards the tower tunnel area and stealth away, or not even, they would have disengaged as soon as that break came by the tower and ran away around the tower.

You had more than enough time and chances to get away, that wasn’t a case of you getting interrupted once and dead from a zerg, that was you not playing properly with the tools of your class. Now it did look more like you were just waiting to get interrupted and one shotted, and not really trying to get away so you can try and prove your point in this thread, or are you really that bad?

reddie.5861:

at start of video i wanted to jump on the loner there i could have finished him, but i wouldnt be able to stomp him thus it was pointless to even jump on him.
every move a thief makes around blob fights have to be done so kittening carefully

with my guard/warrior i just dash in and enjoy the endless smashing till i die
with thief i dash in and im rally bot already.

At the start of the video no one was going to get that loner on the frontline unless they wanted to get run over by the zerg in the next couple seconds, not even a front liner.

It’s obvious a thief isn’t for the frontline and they have to pick and choose their targets, nether are some of the other leather classes or casters, if you want to be in the zerg pack and hitting frontline then play a class more appropriate for it.

Chorazin.4107:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Just because players are bad doesn’t mean Mesmers don’t have semi highmobility, that isn’t a design flaw that’s just players being bad……

Where is this “semi high mobility” you speak of? That one blink every 30seconds that is quite often used as your stun break? Disengage is != mobility, mesmers do have decent access to disengage if they load up on some stealth options or trait PU. They do not have decent mobility to chase.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

And again you and OriOri asked how to Blink Twice Without Mimic and I did tell you how, how effective it is is a completely different matter.

No my initial point was about mesmer mobility being rated as “semi high” mobility, which it clearly isnt. Then you mentioned the double blink. I mentioned you need mimic to accomplish this which no sane mesmer has on their bar. Not to mention blink is also a lot of mesmers main stun breaker on a 30 second(not 15 second CD). You seemed to think it could be used to chase with CS for some bonkers reason.

Going off your logic Blaquefyre I can drop a portal at almost max range and just teleport back and forth going look at my kittening mobility.

Xenesis.6389:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Still not you proving how easy and OP Thief is at being unkillable and killing every one easily like all the complainers keep saying. /popcorn ready

I have to go make a video for an argument I never brought up? ok keep waiting.

Stealth is broken pos mechanic that’s my opinion, not that thieves are op unkillable machines that’s your words. If you’re that desperate for entertainment for your popcorn go look up youtube.

I’d rather these thieves have the long stealth uptimes and lose the bunch of blinks/evades they have.

At least when they’re stealthed it’s time they’re not attacking to avoid being revealed.

The old permastealth thief builds with D/P you could at least down with a proper interrupt on BP>HS.

New thief doesn’t need stealth for damage because autoattack damage buff and Pulmonary Impact made backstab irrelevant when they can use all that initiative for interrupts, evades, and blinds.

Mobility of classes as a whole needs a major overhaul.
You should not be able to move 900 yards more than once at a time with the same skill.
The whole roamer scene is a joke because of mobility, and [fight]resetting being too easy for some.

I mean, they nerfed ride the lightning to a 40 sec cd disengage and currently warrior and thief are covering similar distances with far lesser penalties, it’s a joke.

Zenith.7301:

I mean, they nerfed ride the lightning to a 40 sec cd disengage and currently warrior and thief are covering similar distances with far lesser penalties, it’s a joke.

Warrior had all of its movement skills cut by 33% from where they used to be, once they stopped being affected by swiftness.

Warrior’s pretty middle of the pack now in terms of movement, to a large extent because it can’t take advantage of porting up to ledges, etc. Even if you build for speed (running sword instead of axe, mace, etc., running Bull’s Charge), several classes can keep pace depending on build.

Choppy.4183:

Zenith.7301:

I mean, they nerfed ride the lightning to a 40 sec cd disengage and currently warrior and thief are covering similar distances with far lesser penalties, it’s a joke.

Warrior had all of its movement skills cut by 33% from where they used to be, once they stopped being affected by swiftness.

Warrior’s pretty middle of the pack now in terms of movement, to a large extent because it can’t take advantage of porting up to ledges, etc. Even if you build for speed (running sword instead of axe, mace, etc., running Bull’s Charge), several classes can keep pace depending on build.

Those swiftness changes affected every movement skill that wasn’t a teleport, not just warrior. Guardian GS3 leap was no lesser a casualty of these changes, for example.

babazhook.6805:

DeceiverX.8361:

I don’t think there are any genuine thief/balance advocates who suggest that condi trapper is a justified build. It’s not inherently overpowered because it can’t maintain pressure unless the opponent stays in the area to try and fight it, but it is the result of bad design decisions made about the thief, and it is very rewarding for how little skill it takes to play. However, it doesn’t justify the thief itself being overpowered because well… you can just walk away from the build. It doesn’t actually get kills if its enemies don’t fight back. Definitely a dumb build, definitely something people want to see removed, and it definitely has no place in the game, but it isn’t the result of the thief itself being intrinsically overpowered; it’s one exploit of one mechanic which people have been asking for compensation-based buffs at its expense for years. The problem is without some form of stealth or spammy Daredevil evades the class pretty much outright sucks, so something else needs to happen if nerfing stealth.

Of course, if you nerf stealth on D/P, you end up with the scrapper or mesmer/chrono having similar stealth uptime to the thief with more innate durability which is arguably a pretty big issue for the class, which is why I said above, all stealth uptime needs to drop across the entire game. It should be a quick de-target and a few seconds to re-position, nothing more.

It’s kind of like calling mesmer as a whole overpowered and unkillable because of PU condi (and that’s just a generally better build than the trapper). It’s unfortunately just not a good idea to make that generalization.

You can claim the Daredevil (which isn’t trapper thief, btw) is easy or too forgiving with some validity, and you can claim that there are many facets of the thief in its current state which are downright frustrating to play against. However to say the thief as a whole is easy and unkillable and overpowered is a bit of an overstatement, all things considered.

Condi trapper is a justified build. Most condi trappers do not permastealth. They use p/d for the sneak attack bleed apps and uses of torment off three.

The GHOST thief build is not what I define as a Condi thief trapper build. It only uses one trap So I can not see how it can be called a trapper build and the more dangerous versions of it do not use trapper runes. Added to that it does not even use weapons to apply damage, merely to stack stealth.

The principle mechanic inside that build is stealth stacking via d/p and I have spoken to that in the past. (you can in fact do the build with no traps and no trapper runes via the use of racial skills)

The names and labels people put on things are important because using the wrong defintions leads to unwarranted nerfs that do nothing to solve the inherent issue. Those nerfs then having broken legitimate builds, are rarely reversed at a later date when it found they did not have the desired effect.

Edited. I reused the label someone else was giving to the build without clarifying he meant ghost thief.

Zenith.7301:

Those swiftness changes affected every movement skill that wasn’t a teleport, not just warrior. Guardian GS3 leap was no lesser a casualty of these changes, for example.

Oh, I know. It’s just that all of the warrior’s former Nike power was wrapped up in run skills while maintaining (near) perma-swiftness. Thus, it took the biggest hit from the change.

Meanwhile, some other classes made some gains to movement, thereby leveling the playing field somewhat.

I’m not complaining about it, rather more pointing out that warrior isn’t the speedy class that it once was. I run one of the speedier warrior builds and I’ve had druids, chronos, and dragonhunters keep pace with me. I can’t tell you their builds, but if I escaped it came down to me knowing the map better.

The way I’ll most likely escape is by being able to string all of my movement skills together, good positioning, and being the one deciding to break combat. At least one of those skills is on a 30s CD, and another on 15s. Both (and the rest) are used as combat skills as well, so having those ready to go when it’s time to break isn’t always assured.

Most druids and mesmers can easily break combat from me and escape, if they’re so inclined. Thieves/DDs, well… they obviously have the best escape and pursuit potential.

I don’t see revs as much as I used to, but some of them seemed to have as good or better mobility than warrior when they came out. Not sure if that’s still true. In any case, the warrior seems to have retained a reputation that hasn’t really been true for a couple of years. Middle of the pack now, speedwise.

Post-patch: Even more thieves and mesmers. /gg (as in the pve command)

Roaming should be much more enjoyable now!

Choppy.4183:

Zenith.7301:

I mean, they nerfed ride the lightning to a 40 sec cd disengage and currently warrior and thief are covering similar distances with far lesser penalties, it’s a joke.

Warrior had all of its movement skills cut by 33% from where they used to be, once they stopped being affected by swiftness.

Warrior’s pretty middle of the pack now in terms of movement, to a large extent because it can’t take advantage of porting up to ledges, etc. Even if you build for speed (running sword instead of axe, mace, etc., running Bull’s Charge), several classes can keep pace depending on build.

That’s a pretty dead-on assessment. Warrior probably isn’t even in top 3 in roaming mobility but it’s close. The mobility is pretty good(like you stated)if you use Sword/x GS and Warrior’s Sprint in Discipline tree ect ect. Being able to port and port multiple times and sometimes in stealth is on another level of mobility.

Xenesis.6389:

Roaming should be much more enjoyable now!

is it? because of 1 less dodge?
if thiefs take the 50% endurance food i guess they wont notice much of a difference lmao.

enjoy the new more powerfull ghost thief tho…

and this why i dont bother anymore with gw2, balance anet pumps out are beyond kittened. thief didnt get shafted at all it shouldnt make much of a difference.
if they would nerf PI that would make sense if they would actually buff staff Ele it would make sense but nope they buff ele skills while somewhat decent ele is already near unkillable

reddie.5861:

Xenesis.6389:

Roaming should be much more enjoyable now!

is it? because of 1 less dodge?
if thiefs take the 50% endurance food i guess they wont notice much of a difference lmao.

enjoy the new more powerfull ghost thief tho…

and this why i dont bother anymore with gw2, balance anet pumps out are beyond kittened. thief didnt get shafted at all it shouldnt make much of a difference.
if they would nerf PI that would make sense if they would actually buff staff Ele it would make sense but nope they buff ele skills while somewhat decent ele is already near unkillable

O think he was sarcastic

Yea I think so too. Maybe we should buy one of these to find out:

ArchonWing.9480:

Yea I think so too. Maybe we should buy one of these to find out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSy5mEcmgwU

Yeah I think he probably was…

Ah, yes, because everyone can use the busted op cowardly class, then its not op. That makes a lot of sense…

Quick tip, may be people dont like the kitten play stile…

Some polearms and greatswords in DAOC had 6.0s swing time…I just been hit 47 times in about 2s by p/p thief…let me say, I like longer, slower fights, probably because i’m 51y old now and my reflexes are not what they used to be…or maybe its just bad idea by Anet, who knows

There are plenty of less competitive gamemodes for “slower” fights.
That p/p thief doesn’t care that you’re 51 years old and have poor reflexes. He’s using the tools available to him. Heck, I’m 29 and my reflexes have always been poor. I freely admit I win fights with superior builds and knowledge of mechancis. Poor reflexes are hardly reason to nerf a profession.
~ Kovu

Kovu.7560:

There are plenty of less competitive gamemodes for “slower” fights.
That p/p thief doesn’t care that you’re 51 years old and have poor reflexes. He’s using the tools available to him. Heck, I’m 29 and my reflexes have always been poor. I freely admit I win fights with superior builds and knowledge of mechancis. Poor reflexes are hardly reason to nerf a profession.
~ Kovu

Did I blame him, or did I blame Anet?

I simply favor longer fights, like