Guild Wars 2

Theives/Ele’s more survivability than guardians?

When are Anet going to fix these balance issues? How is it even possible after all this time that thieves and ele’s have more survivability than guardians but seem to keep damage, speed, cc, crazy boons and heals on top of it aswell? Don’t even get me started on constant stealth and spam to win broken initiative…

Shouldn’t it be if you build yourself for crazy survivability you sacrifice damage or other parts of other builds? How is it they seem to just do everything above average with crazy survivability?

Then of course after forever fighting them if they start losing just cloak, ride the lighting, mist away….no risk…

So they don’t even have risk or have to commit to the fight can leave it whenever they like with no issue…unlike other classes.

So how can Anet call this balanced? Anet sucked at balance for years in GW1 and one of the reasons they gave for having crappy number of skills in gw2 and no secondary profession mechanics was because it made it easier to balance….

Well I think that ended up being completely wrong because Anet is still sucking at balance now for 12 months in gw2 as well….

TRON.1085:

Then of course after forever fighting them if they start losing just ride the lighting, mist away….no risk…

.

You are right. They should change the RTL cooldown to 60 seconds even if it hits.
EDIT: typo

Oh god forbid some classes do certain things better than other classes.

Archon.6481:

Oh god forbid some classes do certain things better than other classes.

Scratch that, Oh god forbid there be something Guardians aren’t the absolute best at.

TRON.1085:

Theives/Ele’s more survivability than guardians?

When are Anet going to fix these balance issues? How is it even possible after all this time that thieves and ele’s have more survivability than guardians but seem to keep damage, speed, cc, crazy boons and heals on top of it aswell? Don’t even get me started on constant stealth and spam to win broken initiative…

Shouldn’t it be if you build yourself for crazy survivability you sacrifice damage or other parts of other builds? How is it they seem to just do everything above average with crazy survivability?

Then of course after forever fighting them if they start losing just cloak, ride the lighting, mist away….no risk…

So they don’t even have risk or have to commit to the fight can leave it whenever they like with no issue…unlike other classes.

So how can Anet call this balanced? Anet sucked at balance for years in GW1 and one of the reasons they gave for having crappy number of skills in gw2 and no secondary profession mechanics was because it made it easier to balance….

Well I think that ended up being completely wrong because Anet is still sucking at balance now for 12 months in gw2 as well….

A guardian complaining of survivability..lol..

A guardian complaining of survivability in WvW with the lack of boon nerf..lmao

Takes a special kind of player to mess up on a guardian.

Oh gawd! I can’t kill every class! Nerf it anet!

It just so happens I have an 80 thief, Ele and a Guardian.

Of the 3, the Guardian is WAY more survivable. Not only that, but it can get in close to an enemy zerg and tag dozens of enemies at a time. It makes at least double the number of loot bags.

Ele: If a D/D doesn’t seem to be taking a lot of damage, they’re not dealing that much damage. Time interrupts on our heals and dodge major abilities to make us useless. If more bursty.. not survivable if we make a mistake from exp anyway. Bunker isn’t as good as it used to be.

Thief: Stealth. Try and kill before stealth, expect the usual combos and if you can’t win or sick of them trolling you, run since you’re wasting your time. Actually… most cases don’t fight at all Proper thieves who don’t near perma stealth are hard to find

Guardian: Very tanky with good damage if specced right, one of the more survivable in generic circumstances right now. They’re in a good spot and fun to fight! Not sure what happened in last patch to bring ‘battle guardians’ out of hiding but whatever it was it’s awesome!

^ Agree with almost everything said here.

If the ele is more survivable, it is because he isn’t doing damage. He also doesn’t have all of the utility you do. Also, ride the lightning is one 1200 range leap. Once it is used, you won’t see it again in a chase. If the ele is really going to get away, he will need to pop his elite fiery greatsword.

Thief will be more survivable, but doesn’t bring the group support your boon-factory, healing, protection-machine does.

The ONE weakness guardians have is speed. No class has it all. Be thankful you have one of the top-tier most-solid classes in every format.

A good guardien should only be killed by a SD thief due to the boon steal.
Guardian is very strong in WVW.

“ele bunker arent helpfull to the zerg "? false, what about many buff dispell and heal provided to allies ?

“speed is a weakness of the guardian” ? false, what about staff ?

exept this 2things, agree with everything (excluding the first post ^^ )

You must be playing guardian wrong if you think it’s not as survivable. I can easily take on WAY more people at once than I would ever dream of trying to tackle with my ele. all it takes is 1 good cc ability while an ele is out of water attunement and they’re done for. They can’t move, they die very easily. With my guardian I’ve literally stood there and /danced while 3 people pounded on me then ran away, albeit slowly, made it safely back into the tower and laughed at them.

Mattmatt.4962:

“speed is a weakness of the guardian” ? false, what about staff ?

Not that you are right, but having perma speed boost doesn’t count as speed. Speed means being a bit faster than that by having many gap closers. You can spec a guardian with many gap closers, which is real fun to play. But not good in group/zerg situations. So generally they aren’t really mobile, ones in, they have a hard time to get out.

And guardians actually need a nerf, 60% of the classes I see in WvW these days are guardians. It is getting crazy. Real easy class to play and hard to do anything wrong, because the tons of heals and panic buttons will keep you alive.

Thiefs perma stealth is a pain yes. But I can’t see how they could fix stealth without hurting thiefs a lot. A thief out of stealth is a dead thief. They are worthless once you start hitting. I do think they should fix their burst. 7k hit on 3.4k armor, I mean really? They easily have a 20k burst against sub 3k armor, yes they are build squishy than. But, for 1on1 fights, that doesn’t even matter when your target is dead in 1 combo.

Eles are fine.

Guard can tank an unholy amount of direct damage. Eles and thieves can avoid direct damage better, but in a situation where direct damage is unavoidable (zerg v zerg fight), the guard is the boss.

I don’t think Guardian needs a nerf. It’s actually the most balanced class there is. Its just decent at everything. I think all other classes should be brought up to guardian’s level of effectiveness. As much as I hate thieves, yes even thieves. They need something useful besides just the stealth and gank unsuspecting people thing cuz it’s getting old. Thief has a lot of potential good builds and a few niche builds that only work situationaly that need to be looked at. Their traits need to be reworked completely and stealth should be made into a sort of panic button move and not tied into so many weapons, which is the reason why thief is helpless without it. Stealth should be a defensive OPTION, not a necessity.

Over 1k healing power and guardian survivability is just crazy. No matter how bad player you are you still run inside enemy blob laika pro.

OK – If you’re still having trouble, here’s how it’s done

1/ Get alongside the commander, wait for him to say ‘GO!’.

2/ Hit Virtue of Justice

3/ Foot down on the gas pedal, spam 1,1,1,1,1,1

4/ Hit Stability when you see a red line, dodge roll a few times. Spam 1,1,1,1,1 some more. (Advanced – VoJ every now and again if you can remember to do it)

5/ When you run out of red name-tags, turn round and run back the way you came, spamming loot,loot, loot.

There are several guardian builds that make them far more survivable than either the ele or the thief. They do not posses the escape mechanism (well non-Norn guardians anyway) but that is a trade off most are more than willing to make for the ridiculous amount of group buffs/healing they can drop. Heal on dodge, heal on shout, armor out the wazoo, stability, plenty of control abilities once you get through that… they have a big heal. Killing a good one usually requires a very special build and a lot of patience.

Contiguous.1345:

3/ Foot down on the gas pedal, spam 1,1,1,1,1,1

Yep, that`s the default pass time of about 99% of WvW guardiands.

Ele’s have more survivability than guardians, ha… right. Sure they do

Playing a guardian and complaining about eles. .-.

As far as bunker eles doing damage: L2Dodge

Thieves are a terribly designed class carried, and in certain situations over carried, by a very OP class mechanic. Just going to have to deal with them because Anet doesn’t know how to fix them.

Guardians are a group support class, but they do have some scary roaming builds.

I would suggest more practice with the guardian class(which is probably one of the all around best classes in the game) and gaining some understanding of the classes you are having trouble with. How can you expect to counter something you that you have no idea how works?

Thieves though, kitten thieves, a good one is a nightmare.

Contiguous.1345:

OK – If you’re still having trouble, here’s how it’s done

1/ Get alongside the commander, wait for him to say ‘GO!’.

2/ Hit Virtue of Justice

3/ Foot down on the gas pedal, spam 1,1,1,1,1,1

4/ Hit Stability when you see a red line, dodge roll a few times. Spam 1,1,1,1,1 some more. (Advanced – VoJ every now and again if you can remember to do it)

5/ When you run out of red name-tags, turn round and run back the way you came, spamming loot,loot, loot.

Rofl. Guard hard 2 play!

the stelth is an ultimate deffense AND offens. thats the problem. if a thief want kill somebody? go invis and make 10k backstab, evaid with death blossom, go stealth again… and what if they need to escape? go invis, gain regen and speed! …
i think we all know the Predator movies. they are not totaly invisible and if you hit them, they are flashing. i think thats a possible solution for the problem.

the stelth is an ultimate deffense AND offens. thats the problem. if a thief want kill somebody? go invis and make 10k backstab, evaid with death blossom, go stealth again… and what if they need to escape? go invis, gain regen and speed! …
i think we all know the Predator movies. they are not totaly invisible and if you hit them, they are flashing. i think thats a possible solution for the problem.

My eng can survive better than my thief or guard… then again they are built for different things. It really depends on how you build your character, but comparing bunker vs bunker… max survival prize definitely goes to guard.

McWolfy.5924:

the stelth is an ultimate deffense AND offens. thats the problem. if a thief want kill somebody? go invis and make 10k backstab, evaid with death blossom, go stealth again… and what if they need to escape? go invis, gain regen and speed! …
i think we all know the Predator movies. they are not totaly invisible and if you hit them, they are flashing. i think thats a possible solution for the problem.

Dear god must every WvW thread have some thief OP QQ rubbish? He stealthed… what do? Thieves have been nerfed over and over. They aren’t even among the best 1v1 classes due to how utterly predictable they are… and they lack good group build options. If you’re not a yak and you’re dying from a roaming thief… you’re doing something wrong.

im not QQing. but think. i will be happy if somebody change my spirits, traps, pets for stealths. now ask thieves do they want change stealth for pets? :p

I think the difference between eles/thieves and guardians is that guardians have much better staying power. Eles and thieves have to use their mobility/stealth abilities to stay alive whereas guardians can hold areas and keep giving their party crazy amounts of support.

Contiguous.1345:

It just so happens I have an 80 thief, Ele and a Guardian.

Of the 3, the Guardian is WAY more survivable. Not only that, but it can get in close to an enemy zerg and tag dozens of enemies at a time. It makes at least double the number of loot bags.

I can’t speak for the Elementalist side of things but my Guardian kittens all over my Thief for survivability in WvW. A lot more weapon options too.

McWolfy.5924:

im not QQing. but think. i will be happy if somebody change my spirits, traps, pets for stealths. now ask thieves do they want change stealth for pets? :p

I’d trade Thief stealth for Ranger weapon variety and decent traps, keep the pets, spirits, shouts and signets. Actually, if it was possible to remove ranger pets completely in exchange for something else I’d be all over that profession like a dog on a mailman.

Wow, I have seen just about possible complain in this game…. but this one trumps them all. A guardian complaining about survivability? Wow.

Is this a troll post?

Guardians, in solo or small group play, will never have the survivability of thieves/elementalists because they don’t have similar mobility. They are one of the slowest classes in the game, have one leap skill, and all of their teleports require targets.

They can survive being focused and they have a much stronger staying power, so they have that form of heavy duty veracity, but they won’t do much when being chased around because they can’t drop combat very easily if at all.

Vena.8436:

Guardians, in solo or small group play, will never have the survivability of thieves/elementalists because they don’t have similar mobility. They are one of the slowest classes in the game, have one leap skill, and all of their teleports require targets.

They can survive being focused and they have a much stronger staying power, so they have that form of heavy duty veracity, but they won’t do much when being chased around because they can’t drop combat very easily if at all.

Guards have access to multiple teleports (this is wvw… targets are everywhere… JI doesn’t even care if you’re not in range), swiftness, leap, wardings, and roots. Heck, roll a norn and get another leap and stealth as well. I see similar complaints about mesmers when I know how fast/evasive a mesmer can be as well. It just depends on how you build and play.

lol you’re having trouble with thieves and ele’s? how bad are you? every time i’m on my guard and i find some solo thief or ele and just ignore them and keep walking to my destination.

because 1 or 2 things are gonna happen they’re gonna try to kill me and fail badly, or if they’re giving me trouble i just heal to full with staff 4 and walk to an area where they can’t kill me or their gonna just end up killing themselves.

RTL can get away from a guardian and thats about it, thats literally all its good for. because apparently the class with the lowest armor and hp can’t have mobility as well.

Who’d have thunk those ’zerker guardians would be so fragile?