Guild Wars 2

I have played every mmorpg out there.(Besides Tera.)

One thing all MMO have in common is each has atleast one OP class.

And in Gw2 case, it would be a Thief. I Play a Guardian, No I dont get one or two shotted by thieves, but I run in a 5 man gank group with 1 or sometimes 2 thieves, and I have watched them down single target enemies in under 2 sec. 1000x times.

imo, every class has 3 stats, Burst,Defense, and Mobility. If one class has the best 2/3 stats in the game=OP. In a Thieves case Burst and Mobility.

I am fine with a Thieves burst, but I have a problem with there mobility, a good thief should never lose in a fight.
1.They eather burst you down in under 2 sec.
2. They try to burst you down in under 2 sec, but you dodge roll out/block of all of it, then they beat you straight up, because they are a better player then you are.
3.They decide they are about to lose the fight, so they stealth and heartseeker away, and by the time they come out of stealth they are halfway across the map.

I am trying to get rid of a thieves 3rd option, I have no problem being burst down in under 2 sec, I have no problem losing a fight to a better player, I have a big problem that a Thief can run away from a fight anytime he or she chooses.

I am sure I will get alot of replies saying, It is the Culling issue, not thiefs fault, its Anets.

Gw2 culling issue will never be fixed, it cant be, the engine is to its limits. The only way Anet can fix the culling issue is to have every player wear the same armor in WvWvW, and that will never happen.

Anyway…………..my solution to the thief problem is a 10% slow, when they are in stealth.

Let the flames begin!!!!!!

Ranc.7192:

imo, every class has 3 stats, Burst,Defense, and Mobility. If one class has the best 2/3 stats in the game=OP. In a Thieves case Burst and Mobility.

what about conditions, crowd control, support? it’s cute you only look at 3 things, but i would bet the devs look at more

odd solution to the thief, but i would be ok with it. that would make AoEs more useful too, which is what they want to counter thieves with.

if there’s a trait to increase movement speed then keep it in the 3rd tier of a non-dps trait line

Wouldn’t conditions and crowd control go under burst? And support…They kill anyone who attacks their teammates. If that ain’t support, I don’t know what is, lol. Just kidding…sort of.

Seriously though, I can agree with the OP. Even a small nerf to something like the mobility would do wonders and would leave people less frustrated.

I’d argue stealth gives thief’s elements of protection to.

In any event given the significant negative feedback placed on thief’s due to the rendering/culling issue with regards to stealth is there anyway that ArenaNet can make people respect what a thief does. That is without it feeling like a thief is exploiting something and concurrently not turning the thief into a useless profession?

Specifically even if ArenaNet resolve the issues around stealth will the community forgive and forget? Or has the communities superfluous experiences with thief’s meant that they will always regard thief’s negatively as current threads here indicated.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Most-annoying-class-to-deal-with-in-WvW/first

I actually did a little research on this and found a statement dated 3 March 2011 prior to GW2’s release which really stood out for me.

Fabius Bile said
“this gotta be the first screwup I see them make.

stealth assassin classes in MMOs are always a plain nightmare. They are simply overly popular, and will never have the playerbase happy.

as much faith as I have in ANet, im yet to see ANY developer make a fair rounded and balanced assassin-type class in any MMO, past or current.

They should have avoided stealth entirely".

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/03/11/arenanet-interview-gives-new-details-on-the-guild-wars-2-thief/

The fact that these sentiments were aired over a year ago is interesting. Given the complexity of balancing such a profession it’s REALLY disappointing that ArenaNet has dropped the ball on this one.

I think I should make it clear that I have a level 80 thief and have had some ‘fun’ with it in WvW. I’ve also made alts and been on the receiving end of invisi rendering thief’s and I can honestly say it’s no ‘fun’.

As a community can we <3 thief’s without making them useless?

FourTwenty.4268:

Ranc.7192:

imo, every class has 3 stats, Burst,Defense, and Mobility. If one class has the best 2/3 stats in the game=OP. In a Thieves case Burst and Mobility.

what about conditions, crowd control, support? it’s cute you only look at 3 things, but i would bet the devs look at more

odd solution to the thief, but i would be ok with it. that would make AoEs more useful too, which is what they want to counter thieves with.

if there’s a trait to increase movement speed then keep it in the 3rd tier of a non-dps trait line

I would put Condition under burst

Support would be under defense,(aka heals, group heals and buffs)

and gw2 doesnt have much CC compared to other games
But I would put CC under defense also

Actually, one point the OP made (which wasn’t made as a suggestion) can lead to a better solution. If this is one of the problems, if this could help cause thieves to come in sooner, then it’s an easier solution.

Why not change everyone’s clothing into the same clothing, with single or near single colors of the team they are on.

Clothes rendering is something that people would probably care the least about. They come here for the action. Culling, and the problems that they cause, make the action seem worse. If we get rid of diverse clothing to lower culling, I think this would help out gameplay a lot.

Thief will be OP only when Anet add an Elite skill : “Call Protoss MotherShip” to their skills !

I don’t agree thieves are OP, but if anything, taking away burst would destroy it the least bit. Taking away thief mobility is edging away from the design. Anet said it themselves. Thieves are squirmy. That is the entire goal of the thief, to make a swarmy class. Not bursty class(although I don’t have a problem with backstab thieves, myself). Too take mobility and stealth away would turn a thief into a glass cannon warrior with 10K less HP. That’s the sole design of the thief. Mobility and the ability to stay squirmy. That’s why we have things like blind, signet of shadows, shadowstep. It was never stated for burst to be in the design, it just happened. Just like warriors are great in zergs, elementalists with their aoes, necro being the class you can’t escape from, guardian being the tank class, engineer being the support class, ranger being the ranged class, thieves are the swirmy class. What else would they be? A thief that steals gold from you?

Ranc.7192:

imo, every class has 3 stats, Burst,Defense, and Mobility. If one class has the best 2/3 stats in the game=OP. In a Thieves case Burst and Mobility.

Necro has no reasonable burst damage… only viable spec is condition, which can be removed by anyone… good times.

Thieves aren’t overpowered, they’re over-tuned in some areas and under-tuned in others. After playing a thief for a while I’m starting to get a feel for where things go right and where things go wrong.

In short, thieves are too squishy, which makes stealth too much of a free “oh kitten” button. If a thief isn’t timing dodges and stealth activation perfectly, they’re going to get rolled fairly quickly when compared to other professions. The problem is that the thief is, by design, a glass cannon.

A solution is to reduce offensive strength by about 3%, increase defensive strength by about 5-10%, and make stealth less of a maintainable thing — increase a few cooldowns by a few seconds, make revealed last longer, make a few stealth skills last for a little bit less, or any combination thereof. I’m fine with a thief having the option to build as a glass-cannon, but right now that’s the main direction the profession pushes you.

Sure you can play as a more defensive thief and sure you can play as a more mobile thief, but you still maintain a strong punch compared to the options most other professions have access to. I personally would rather be dealing about 3%-5% less damage in exchange for some bonus health or armor, across the board. Stealth has become a necessity and a crutch rather than an option. That’s the problem.

They aren’t broken, they just need tweaks. Removing, limiting or nerfing stealth would make it nearly impossible for a thief to survive most combat encounters because of how flimsy they are. You can’t nerf stealth without changing other parts of the profession. It’s as simple as that. Numbers need to be tuned — nothing needs to be nerfed.

Ranc.7192:

I have played every mmorpg out there.(Besides Tera.)

One thing all MMO have in common is each has atleast one OP class.

And in Gw2 case, it would be a Thief. I Play a Guardian, No I dont get one or two shotted by thieves, but I run in a 5 man gank group with 1 or sometimes 2 thieves, and I have watched them down single target enemies in under 2 sec. 1000x times.

imo, every class has 3 stats, Burst,Defense, and Mobility. If one class has the best 2/3 stats in the game=OP. In a Thieves case Burst and Mobility.

I am fine with a Thieves burst, but I have a problem with there mobility, a good thief should never lose in a fight.
1.They eather burst you down in under 2 sec.
2. They try to burst you down in under 2 sec, but you dodge roll out/block of all of it, then they beat you straight up, because they are a better player then you are.
3.They decide they are about to lose the fight, so they stealth and heartseeker away, and by the time they come out of stealth they are halfway across the map.

I am trying to get rid of a thieves 3rd option, I have no problem being burst down in under 2 sec, I have no problem losing a fight to a better player, I have a big problem that a Thief can run away from a fight anytime he or she chooses.

I am sure I will get alot of replies saying, It is the Culling issue, not thiefs fault, its Anets.

Gw2 culling issue will never be fixed, it cant be, the engine is to its limits. The only way Anet can fix the culling issue is to have every player wear the same armor in WvWvW, and that will never happen.

Anyway…………..my solution to the thief problem is a 10% slow, when they are in stealth.

Let the flames begin!!!!!!

You are playing THE best wvw class in the game and you are complaining about another class. You could replace both burst thieves in your group with 2 guardians and if played properly you would have access to WAY more utility and still maintain about the same damage.

You mention every class has Burst, Defense, Mobility. Guardians can obtain some of the best aoe damage in the game, while having some of the best group utility in the game, which is far more important than a single thief’s mobility.

Don’t get me wrong, thieves need an overhaul (imo). Stealth and quickness mechanics needs to be completely reworked. But its amazing how many wvw players aren’t complaining about guardians, which have access to some of the best WvW skills available.

Thieves are OPed. We all get it. Anet gets it. Players get it. Heck they should just rename the thief section to something like “the terminator”