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Posted by: Hyperion.4638

Hyperion.4638

This is starting to get out of hand, atm roaming is a joke you can’t even do a good 1v1 because 90% of the roamers are thiefs and when they get low hp =stealth and run away.
This is not a complain thread about thiefs being OP or some kitten this is mostly about the stealth, this thing has to be reworked, there has to be some kind of nerfs on the stealth, either the duration should be reduced or you cannot go stealth again if you did in the last 5-8 sec.

(edited by Hyperion.4638)

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Posted by: Catalin.5341

Catalin.5341

The idea around the thief class is getting stealthed, dish out as much damage as possible, go back in stealth. If you take that away then it becomes just a squishy warrior.
Warriors have HP to compensate, Thieves have Stealth.
Roll a thief and you will learn their stealth rotation and will be able to counter them with your main class.

EU Seafearer’s Rest, Guilds: [AR] [tD]
Catalin Puf (Human Elementalist)
Catalin Elf (Sylvari Thief)

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Posted by: Hyperion.4638

Hyperion.4638

The idea around the thief class is getting stealthed, dish out as much damage as possible, go back in stealth. If you take that away then it becomes just a squishy warrior.
Warriors have HP to compensate, Thieves have Stealth.
Roll a thief and you will learn their stealth rotation and will be able to counter them with your main class.

Its not about that, for example i play guardian,warrior and mesmer, but for roaming i usually use my warrior, the thing is that fighting them is not that hard its just very very annoying and even if you are winning they get stealthed and next time you see them they are 1km away, that is why i am saying stealth should be nerfed somehow, i mean come on 90% of the roamers are thiefs, why do you think that is? Something has to be done otherwise every new player that comes into this game will go “wtf is this kitten”

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Posted by: LordByron.8369

LordByron.8369

If a player plays with rotation it becomes as predictable as a PvE mob.

If you are good enough you play mindgames….thus a stealth profession is unreactable by definition.

Example of easy mindgame: you use stealth and instead of fleeing in the opposite direction you go in another….

This is the classic example of mechanic with 0 counterplay.

Said that the problem of excessive mobility AND ability to disengage AND reengage at will of 2 professions is something should be dealt with since a year.

P.S: warrior is as bad…..its almost invulnerable to CC and has best mobility in game….you don t even need mindgames since nothing can keep you in fight with a warrior if he wants to flee.

GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.

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Posted by: Catalin.5341

Catalin.5341

90% of the roamers are thiefs, why do you think that is?

It’s because of the concept of the Stealth mechanic. WvW is a zerg fest and when roaming, there’s a big chance you will encounter more enemies than your group. Having 40k HP and 5k armor will still not protect you when outnumbered. So the best option is to just become invisible. Another option is to run fast, that’s why elementalist D/D is preferred too.
If Stealth gets nerfed to a point that thieves can’t escape these encounters then that class will be abandoned. So you either have 90% thieves or 0%. There’s no in between.

EU Seafearer’s Rest, Guilds: [AR] [tD]
Catalin Puf (Human Elementalist)
Catalin Elf (Sylvari Thief)

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Posted by: L U X A.9452

L U X A.9452

Tbh it looks to me like most of the roamers and sniper parties became rangers with their 15k dmg and 1500range but I hear your pain about thieves…

You can always have stealth trap in inventory and hope they will pass it :P

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Posted by: LordByron.8369

LordByron.8369

Another option is to run fast, that’s why elementalist D/D is preferred too.

Urban Legend.
Ele mobility get nerfed every patch.

1) rtl CD hit for more than 200% increase
2) LF losing breakstun needed another breakstun slotted
3) removal of boon duration runes took away most our swiftness uptime
4) change to FGS (that is not even that good).

Infact as many players confirmed you don t see that many DD ele in WWW.
The problem is that too many still believe PvP = WWW :|
Mobility and stealth in PvP are less problematic due to the capture point, small maps and no capture during stealth that is what is breaking balance in amode where there are not such balancing factors.

GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.

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Posted by: Exeon.4358

Exeon.4358

Play an Engineer, and i can assure you, once a thief engages you, it’l be hard for them to get away

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Posted by: Ishmael.6740

Ishmael.6740

I haven’t played WvW (except a little EotM Zerging, I’m relatively new to the game) yet, but I have a question:

Why would it be a problem to hit a stealthing thief with aoe ccs? Let’s say a Mesmer GS5? Shouldn’t that keep him at least occupied long enough for his stealth to run out?

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Posted by: Sorel.4870

Sorel.4870

I haven’t played WvW (except a little EotM Zerging, I’m relatively new to the game) yet, but I have a question:

Why would it be a problem to hit a stealthing thief with aoe ccs? Let’s say a Mesmer GS5? Shouldn’t that keep him at least occupied long enough for his stealth to run out?

No, you’re right. In fact, that’s one of the easiest way to take down roaming thieves. For one clever thief, nine will drop very low health and then drop their refuge, thinking they are safe. You then just GS5 (or shield 4 on engi, etc.) and push them out of their refuge. They are revealed, and you can finish them off as they are wondering in panic what just happened to them. Best feeling ever.

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Posted by: LordByron.8369

LordByron.8369

I haven’t played WvW (except a little EotM Zerging, I’m relatively new to the game) yet, but I have a question:

Why would it be a problem to hit a stealthing thief with aoe ccs? Let’s say a Mesmer GS5? Shouldn’t that keep him at least occupied long enough for his stealth to run out?

Except GS5, and focus 2, are skills that only mesmers have; moreover, the mobility a thief has, is enough alone to let him escape at will.

Stealth is just a plus to avoid any chance to single target CC.

In www thief is lowest skill floor in game for that, and this is the reason why you can kill many, since it attracts many unexperienced players that juct commit too many mistakes.

And you really have to commit many to actually die (Example: nobody forces you to eat GS5 while in SR since thief is also master of evasions).

GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.

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Posted by: Ark Bladesteele.2943

Ark Bladesteele.2943

I don’t see how a GS5 is going to push a thief out of SR, since it misses even stationary targets about 80% of the time. Hammer 4 works, though, because it does literally push them out of the refuge (and often leads to them standing stationary and seeming very confused). If a thief does actually get hit by GS5 while in SR, he’s not going to be confused — he’s thinking very hard of a way to turn the situation in his favor without dying first.

Don’t forget that the use of GS5 requires having the thief targeted before the SR, otherwise you drop target and rush at thin air. Not practical, doesn’t happen enough to be a viable counter, don’t recommend it — it’s more or less a lucky shot and even then you’re not guaranteed to push the thief out.

I still think that all classes should be allowed to sacrifice a trait or skill slot to reveal or prevent a thief from stealthing, even if for a brief period of time, much like a warrior can use Berserker’s Stance to prevent conditions for 8 (or 10 traited) seconds on a very long cooldown. The fact that only 2 classes have access to these abilities, and both being one or the other, feels lacking. There are ways to counter nearly every other ability on all classes, and with stealth being the one thing that truly makes your enemy 100% invisible with no way of finding them on most classes, there is a disparity. Why do duels or 1v1 or 1v2 fights with thieves often last either 5 seconds or 20 minutes?

a) You stunlock the crap out of them to prevent them from ever even stealthing or blinding you; this of course requiring foreknowledge that the enemy is even there in the first place, and

b) Thief stealths over and over to reset the fight using cloak and dagger, SR, steal, etc, to get far enough away that it throws both of you out combat and you are left with a ridiculously long fight that is likely boring as hell for both of you, much in the same way a War will use movement skills to do the same.

Stealth doesn’t need to be fixed. It’s perfectly fine the way it is. Counters and reveals to stealth need to be added. What more perfect advantage can a person have in a fight if the other can’t even see them before they get in the first hit?

NSP’s resident crazy-eyed sylvari

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Posted by: Ishmael.6740

Ishmael.6740

thanks for your answers!

I didn’t mean GS5 specifically in that situation, just about any AoE CC that could knock the thief down, immobilie him or whatever, to avoid hijm from just running away while stealthed – I guess it would be a good thing if every class could deal with that in some way, if that’s not already the case, as you suggested.

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Posted by: Ark Bladesteele.2943

Ark Bladesteele.2943

Whoops, that’s what I get for not reading the whole thread thoroughly. Yes, I can see how mes GS5 could be a viable counter, but as someone else stated, there’s nothing forcing a thief to eat it — it can still be evaded while in the SR without losing the refuge. CCs are great and all, but SR grants an extremely long stealth duration, often what’s considered a thief’s “last ditch” to prevent death. I have lost count at how many times I’ve said in /say chat “that thief is definitely down, my GS triggered an on-crit while he was in SR” while we wait 30 seconds to see if that’s really the case or not.

Again, from a person who mains a War’s perspective. Guards? No idea what to do there. Fear necros? Yeah, there’s some chances there. GS mesmers? Possible, if the damage output is high enough to make the thief bail.. but if it’s that high already, the thief is likely dead anyway and dropping out of stealth isn’t going to help. Ranger? Sic ’Em. Engineer? Reveal. Ele? Massive AoE such as meteor or d/d air bursts the second the thief is out of stealth (Tornado not really being an option due to its inconsistency and ridiculously long cooldown — nobody should have to sacrifice an elite that way to solve a simple combat problem). War? Hammer 4, I guess? Other thieves? Good luck with that.

There is a solution, as there always is, we just haven’t been given it yet.

NSP’s resident crazy-eyed sylvari

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Posted by: Pavel.8531

Pavel.8531

Hyperion, since your problem isn’t that you are losing, but that they are getting away, and being annoying: here are 3 easy steps when you see 1 thief approaching you, as a warrior:
Step 1 – change your least important “1v1” utility to “Fear me”.
Step 2 – damage the thief enough so he drops his SR(99.9% of the thieves use SR as their last heal/stall resort).
Step 3 – jump in the SR, use “Fear me” – proceed to finish them while they are revealed.

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Posted by: Ark Bladesteele.2943

Ark Bladesteele.2943

easy steps when you see 1 thief approaching you

when you see 1 thief approaching you

when you see

see

NSP’s resident crazy-eyed sylvari

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Posted by: nirvana.8245

nirvana.8245

I pretty much only jump on my thief this days when I don’t care about losing fights or I want to avoid all fights and karma train yaks or scout a zerg/guild. They are pretty garbage these days. Especially with the way condi bunker and “2000 range hundred blades rangers” are getting around.

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Posted by: Ishmael.6740

Ishmael.6740

Yes, I can see how mes GS5 could be a viable counter, but as someone else stated, there’s nothing forcing a thief to eat it — it can still be evaded while in the SR without losing the refuge.

I think (please bear in mind that I’m really unexperienced on practical GW2 PVP, just played a little GW1 PVP) the thief shouldn’t be forced to eat it – The key survivability mechanic being taken away shouldn’t be something that, at least, good players can’t avoid.
Which makes it more of a finetuning issue, balancing around existing methods of CC and the thiefs possibilities to avoid them…

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Posted by: urieldhynne.2743

urieldhynne.2743

The idea around the thief class is getting stealthed, dish out as much damage as possible, go back in stealth. If you take that away then it becomes just a squishy warrior.
Warriors have HP to compensate, Thieves have Stealth.
Roll a thief and you will learn their stealth rotation and will be able to counter them with your main class.

I am sick of that excuse. Thief didn’t have only stealth, thief have a LOT of evasions, a lot of blind, and a lot of mobility. And there is a lot of builds without stealth spamming.

About stealth to get out of combat? is like nike warriors, or pu mesmer, always the same. If you lose, you should die. That kitten of “a free card to get out of combat” should be fixed/removed or make every class like that so all classes have the same chances to get alive of a combat.

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Posted by: CrimsonNeonite.1048

CrimsonNeonite.1048

I don’t undestand this complaint.
I run around solo a lot and always need to stay on my toes; because there is almost always a group waiting to gank me. At least we have our uses as roamers and scouts, since we are one of the least useful in a blob, outside of guild raids in a spike team at least.

Stealth is annoying to play against, but it should be the least of your problems, besides there are other equally annoying specs that can disengage (not run) from a fight, don’t you cringe when you run into someone with +40% condi duration?

Do you really expect Thieves to be easy kills? ANYWAY being a bearbow or otherwise ranger seems the new rage these days, depending on the server you’re up against.

Scrubio
Plays completely opposite professions to his main Teef.

(edited by CrimsonNeonite.1048)

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Posted by: Yelloweyedemon.2860

Yelloweyedemon.2860

Is it true that some thieves wake up in the midle of the night terrified, as they hear a scary voice repeat “Sic ’em” over and over?

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Posted by: Bret.6940

Bret.6940

Its pretty funny you say you roam with a warrior. when i fight warriors then tend to run away alot “nike air” warrior. the fact that your running skills are redic and your hp regen invuls etc sounds like you need to learn to play warrior.

Order of Grenth ~ P/P Thief~ [OGs] TC

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Posted by: Clownmug.8357

Clownmug.8357

This isn’t thief specific, most players will try to run away if they’re losing a fight. They don’t want to lose their buff stacks and running back from a waypoint is annoying. Easiest way to prevent running is to let the other person think they can win. Fight outnumbered and you’ll rarely see anyone flee.

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Posted by: McWolfy.5924

McWolfy.5924

I just dont like passive mechanism as stealth. And stealth is a deffensive + offensive +mobility + survival ability what is too much

WSR→Piken→Deso→Piken→FSP→Deso
Just the WvW
R3200+

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Posted by: Ark Bladesteele.2943

Ark Bladesteele.2943

Its pretty funny you say you roam with a warrior. when i fight warriors then tend to run away alot “nike air” warrior. the fact that your running skills are redic and your hp regen invuls etc sounds like you need to learn to play warrior.

This isn’t thief specific, most players will try to run away if they’re losing a fight. They don’t want to lose their buff stacks and running back from a waypoint is annoying. Easiest way to prevent running is to let the other person think they can win. Fight outnumbered and you’ll rarely see anyone flee.

It’s the people that don’t know how to reset a fight, are unwilling to, or haven’t yet learned why, that should understand that this is a valid tactic used by all classes in the game, and for a thief it’s oftentimes necessary to survive.

Calling out a warrior for using mobility skills in a fight is like calling out a thief for using stealth. A mesmer for using blink. An ele for ride the wind. Etc. To the first person I quoted, warriors are not easy classes to roam with. Not anymore. Not since 2012. Get over it. Any warrior or any other class that uses their mobility or evasion tactics to get away from a fight that they’re sure to lose, or to back out and regen health so they have a better chance at winning, is someone who has already learned to play and mastered it. This is not a learn to play issue on their part. It is a “learn how others play” issue on yours.

NSP’s resident crazy-eyed sylvari

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

Well you can roll a thief, press 1-2-2-2-2-2 and win or roll and ele, spend a year to master your class, press a million keys skillfully and end up running away. This game isn’t made for 1 vs 1, proof is all the new endless matches we have because everyone is running bunker.

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Posted by: Otokomae.9356

Otokomae.9356

99% of the complaints I see about Thief are really about 1 specific build, the one that has been least affected by all the changes to Thief class since the game came out: the Dagger/Pistol Thief. This one build annoys everyone, including other D/P Thieves, as they do have the ability to stack up several seconds of stealth very easily, runaway, and with no cooldown they can simply restack stealth again until they’re completely out of view. Several people have already shown that you can crisscross an entire Borderlands map without ever leaving Stealth if you really want to (it’s boring, since you have to keep stopping to re-stealth, & you can’t attack anything).

This is also, of course, the Thief build with the lowest amount of skill required to stay alive. Shadow’s Refuge and other stealth skills are, of course, annoying to people, but they are not in the same league as the no Cooldown Stealth-Stacking that Dagger/Pistol builds have available to them. I saw someone here mentioned Cloak & Dagger, but C&D is really a setup move for most Thieves, and a temporary disengage at best; it’s not the get-out-of-jail-free-card that the OP seems to be describing. If you can’t catch a Thief because he Cloak and Daggered you and then got a 1.5-2 second headstart, then he probably could’ve left the fight at anytime regardless, because that means you’re using a build with little-to-no mobility anyway, especially by Warrior standards.

Anyway, I agree that something should probably be done about the Dagger/Pistol Thief’s stealth stacking, as it’s been abused in every way imaginable since Launch, and I really believe it’s the basis for almost every reasonable complaint I’ve seen on the forums regarding Stealth in WvW.

Bakuon/Bakuon Thief [MAS]/ ex-[ATac]

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Posted by: Offair.2563

Offair.2563

SIC EM and ofcourse stealth traps. kittens over any thief when you use it on the right moments.

Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.

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Posted by: SinisterSeven.2781

SinisterSeven.2781

This is starting to get out of hand, atm roaming is a joke you can’t even do a good 1v1 because 90% of the roamers are thiefs and when they get low hp =stealth and run away.
This is not a complain thread about thiefs being OP or some kitten this is mostly about the stealth, this thing has to be reworked, there has to be some kind of nerfs on the stealth, either the duration should be reduced or you cannot go stealth again if you did in the last 5-8 sec.

know your enemy. Best to pick up the thief class and figure out how the little kittens stealth, then work around it (i did this).

You’ll have to figure out what you want to do. Support a zerg? that’s a build. Roaming? that’s another build entirely. and Anti-Thief or Anti-Stealth? that’s yet another build.

I have a build for general roaming, and builds for killing thieves or mesmers with AOE or clever skills/runes that trigger instantly.

It’s not overpowered – you’re just facing very skilled opponents. Just remember to keep the aoe’s and dmg on them and they’re toast. But you have to figure out how they can move around so quickly.

a last resort is a stealth removal trap – hilarious but only works once or twice before they catch on.

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Posted by: Otaur.9268

Otaur.9268

I’ve seen an increase of Thieves going invisible without using any skills in WvW. I believe this is what the OP is referring to. I do not know how they are going stealth as I have a level 80 thief myself and cannot go into stealth as much as these enemies are. No targets around them not even rabbits for them to CnD, they do not cast a skill, yet they are going invisible. You can also tell which thieves are doing this and which ones aren’t.

Blackfang’s Demon Alliance [BfDA]

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Posted by: Dark FQ.1038

Dark FQ.1038

The idea around the thief class is getting stealthed, dish out as much damage as possible, go back in stealth. If you take that away then it becomes just a squishy warrior.
Warriors have HP to compensate, Thieves have Stealth.
Roll a thief and you will learn their stealth rotation and will be able to counter them with your main class.

This is so true, believe me I did the same, thiefs are much eassier now.

Dark Fq (Desolation and Gandara)all classes condi. http://www.youtube.com/user/FQDark

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Posted by: ArchonWing.9480

ArchonWing.9480

Well, thanks to anet, s/d is now nerfed, so what else am I supposed to do? Thanks for pushing me to d/p p/x SA runaway stuff!

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.

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Posted by: nirvana.8245

nirvana.8245

Well, thanks to anet, s/d is now nerfed, so what else am I supposed to do? Thanks for pushing me to d/p p/x SA runaway stuff!

Yeah its stupid that they nerfed sword. Its should be a core with all the condi-bunkers getting around. But nope.

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

I’ve seen an increase of Thieves going invisible without using any skills in WvW. I believe this is what the OP is referring to. I do not know how they are going stealth as I have a level 80 thief myself and cannot go into stealth as much as these enemies are. No targets around them not even rabbits for them to CnD, they do not cast a skill, yet they are going invisible. You can also tell which thieves are doing this and which ones aren’t.

Only d/p which takes time and initiative, and trap thieves with 24 CD on traited traps can stealth multiple times without hitting a foe……

-1 for loose and undetailed thread

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: DeeSystm.1256

DeeSystm.1256

It seems strange that 90% of roamers are cruddy stealth thieves you have almost no problem with.

“I came to play.” me
r4420k+ blazetrain

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Posted by: lunacrous.6751

lunacrous.6751

It’s the people that don’t know how to reset a fight, are unwilling to, or haven’t yet learned why, that should understand that this is a valid tactic used by all classes in the game, and for a thief it’s oftentimes necessary to survive.

Oh man, too true. Those Necros with their high mobility hijinx, constantly resetting fights…

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Posted by: qualm like a bomb.6512

qualm like a bomb.6512

Lol poor frustrated warrior, can’t kill a little ol’ thief. queque on the forums. Most warriors I engage roaming run away when they get low too, but I dont come cry to the forums. I change my build so its less likely they get away.

Qualm – Commander
Grievance [GVNC] – Our drunken WvW is the kitten
Devona’s Rest – Forever Outnumbered & Kittened upon by Anet

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Posted by: SpellOfIniquity.1780

SpellOfIniquity.1780

Oh my GOD, THIEVES*. Come on people.

Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma

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Posted by: Wanderer.3248

Wanderer.3248

I haven’t played WvW (except a little EotM Zerging, I’m relatively new to the game) yet, but I have a question:

Why would it be a problem to hit a stealthing thief with aoe ccs? Let’s say a Mesmer GS5? Shouldn’t that keep him at least occupied long enough for his stealth to run out?

My experience is that thieves die most often due to crowd control. If you have a few players chain knock downs, interrupts and immobilise they can kill you quite easily.

AoE by itself is easily avoided, but not if you can’t move.

It’s your basic hold them down and kick them tactic.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

what else should thieves do OP? they are only good at roaming and are pretty useless in the zerg (besides picking off single squishies in the back)

I just dont like passive mechanism as stealth. And stealth is a deffensive + offensive +mobility + survival ability what is too much

and that is why thieves don’t have protection, aegis, blocks, invuls, stability (please don’t bring DS, it is death sentence usually), massive heals, hard CC chain, massive AI army… literary all they have is stealth or evades (not both)

@Otokomae.9356: stealthed thief not going to take over keeps or towers, maybe a camp but that is. WvW is not supoposed to be fair according to devs nor is this game balancved around 1v1. Perma stealth thief is absolutely useless in pvp hence why no decent thief runs SA d/p. So realy only thing SA d/p is good at is maybe sit in stealth all day. Well news flash, nike warrior is probably better at getting away than d/p thief even.

Also the numbers talk for themself what is really broken: what is most played class in WvW? Guardians and warriors actually. Maybe you all should complain about those since they are absurdly overused in wvw.

Yes, i play thief, d/p trickery which relies on steal and biggest mistake everyone i ever meet in wvw is just standing there and doing nothing when i go in stealth for backstab. Nobody tries to move around, nobody tries to lay down aoe or CC, or simply just count 1,2,3 and hit block. Also, majority of players i picked off in wvw were literary 1 spammers, there was 0 effort from their side to use any other skill but AA and heal.

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

(edited by Cynz.9437)

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Posted by: LordByron.8369

LordByron.8369

thanks for your answers!

I didn’t mean GS5 specifically in that situation, just about any AoE CC that could knock the thief down, immobilie him or whatever, to avoid hijm from just running away while stealthed – I guess it would be a good thing if every class could deal with that in some way, if that’s not already the case, as you suggested.

There are many reasons why this will neverf happen:

1st) most CC requires a target, and a profession that spends half time evading and the other half stealthed won t be hit by any.

2) SR is quite big, really few skills can push the thief out of it.

3) casting time, + positioning required to cast a CC will have a really short window margin to actually do something

4) thief can evade while in SR

5) thief heals and also can cure condition while stealthed

6) immob won t do anything (aside the fact requires a target…and stealth prevent it).

7) shadow return is the panic button… cures everything and tp away.

8) the small chance at counterplay requires you to have all your cooldown ready as if you didn t fight the thief before.

9) even if revealed thief has still lot of chances to run away unless you play a warrior

10) thief has more than SR

TL DR only chance you have to kill a thief is he is full glass cannon AND he stealth at low HP.
That is exactly the mistake of beginner thief players.
If you know how to play a thief, you can just burst/CC and if it doesn t land, stealth and try again without wasting time.
Only counter to thief in WWW are high DPS builds that are the easiest to be killed from stealth by the thief itself..

So only chance you can have is with a build thief is perfect at deal with -.-

P.S. enough with WWW is unbalanced… that is just a sad excuse to prevent the balance needed for WWW.

GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.

Thiefs everywhere....

in WvW

Posted by: Hyperion.4638

Hyperion.4638

99% of the complaints I see about Thief are really about 1 specific build, the one that has been least affected by all the changes to Thief class since the game came out: the Dagger/Pistol Thief. This one build annoys everyone, including other D/P Thieves, as they do have the ability to stack up several seconds of stealth very easily, runaway, and with no cooldown they can simply restack stealth again until they’re completely out of view. Several people have already shown that you can crisscross an entire Borderlands map without ever leaving Stealth if you really want to (it’s boring, since you have to keep stopping to re-stealth, & you can’t attack anything).

This is also, of course, the Thief build with the lowest amount of skill required to stay alive. Shadow’s Refuge and other stealth skills are, of course, annoying to people, but they are not in the same league as the no Cooldown Stealth-Stacking that Dagger/Pistol builds have available to them. I saw someone here mentioned Cloak & Dagger, but C&D is really a setup move for most Thieves, and a temporary disengage at best; it’s not the get-out-of-jail-free-card that the OP seems to be describing. If you can’t catch a Thief because he Cloak and Daggered you and then got a 1.5-2 second headstart, then he probably could’ve left the fight at anytime regardless, because that means you’re using a build with little-to-no mobility anyway, especially by Warrior standards.

Anyway, I agree that something should probably be done about the Dagger/Pistol Thief’s stealth stacking, as it’s been abused in every way imaginable since Launch, and I really believe it’s the basis for almost every reasonable complaint I’ve seen on the forums regarding Stealth in WvW.

Basically something needs to be done to stealth in general, i mean i would be ok if somehow when you hit him in AoE the thief is revealed but in this game that is not the case, so basically there are 0 counters to stealth besides throwing your aoe and probably wasting good skills for nothing.

Also to some other poster who told me to learn my class, well i have Champion Legionnaire(Warrior), Champion Paragorn(Guardian) and soon Champion Illusionist(Mesmer), so i know my way around, the post is not about if i loose or win a fight vs stealth spamming thiefs its about how that even if you are winning a fight you just can’t because they will stealth away and just run, i don’t mind classes running away and me chasing them, its challenging and its fun, but spending 5 min pvping someone and he just decided to run away and you don’t even realize it just plain annoying and unbalanced and basically ruins pvp.

Thiefs everywhere....

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Posted by: CrimsonNeonite.1048

CrimsonNeonite.1048

It really isn’t that hard to counter, even if you list reasons why it is hard to pin down a thief; it isn’t, especially if you run a condi or a fairly tanky cc heavy spec. D/P SA blinds, sustain and stealth up can be annoying along with other utilities, but they do not make thieves unbeatable or invincible if they play that way. I don’t like using SA, as it feels like training wheels and much prefer D/P trickery, if I feel like playing D/P.

Our most sustainable build outside is of that is condi p/d really, which is as good as any condi meta spec in a 1v1. I don’t even know why people are complaining about 1v1s since it isn’t supposed to be balanced that way , never mind thieves with limited roles.

Tl;Dr rather than qq, learn or stay away from thieves unless you have a friend, bear, clones or minions, which may make you feel safer.

Scrubio
Plays completely opposite professions to his main Teef.

(edited by CrimsonNeonite.1048)

Thiefs everywhere....

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Posted by: sminkiottone.6972

sminkiottone.6972

Ranger and Engi have a counter called reveal (6s) I’m sure Anet will introduce it to more classes in the future balance patches.

If you have problems with thief you shoul pay one o these classes to be your bodyguard.

Thiefs everywhere....

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Posted by: loneknight.8425

loneknight.8425

@Hyperion most vet thieves I know of and myself favor cond p/d build since Apr feature pack, if that is of any good news to you.

Is it true that some thieves wake up in the midle of the night terrified, as they hear a scary voice repeat “Sic ’em” over and over?

Not really, since most rangers I have encountered so far still rely heavily on ranged attks and get spooked easily when I get uncomfortably close to them * snikt *

The thief who did dat – Crystal Desert